Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

[Noeb]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

In John 15:16 Jesus was referring to the faithful Jews who have accepted his Gospel, not the unbelievers. Surely, you can see the difference?

they're Israel
.

[Trivalee]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

I didn't proffer a proof at all. Your personal "proof" was based on assuming that Every human and nation was destroyed prior to/or during the GWTJ. But there is no evidence of Either therefore there is no need to change the timeline to what your personally suggest since there are clear alternative reasons to explain who the people left out of the NJ could be.

Look at it this way, you pointed out in a previous post that the GWTJ is for the dead (and I agree). Since it is the last judgment - if there remains mortals who are evil, wicked, murderers, etc as stated in Rev 22:15, when will they be judged in your opinion?

[Noeb]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

I am not alone in the view that Jesus made a comparison without saying that the earth is the Koh. See post #603.

saying something is not showing something

[Trivalee]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

tree of life, which requires obedience to access.

The tree of life is for healing. So provide scripture that says what you claim, please?

[Trivalee]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

already done.
-Jesus told a group
-Israel received the KoG

It's not hard.

If you say so.

[Trivalee]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

they're Israel
.

The fact you can't tell the difference makes it impossible for me to help you.

[Trivalee]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

saying something is not showing something

You told me earlier to go and learn how to "read" whereas you're the one who doesn't know the difference between the metaphor and the literal. Mark tried to point you in the right direction, but you attacked him.

[TheDivineWatermark]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

1. If this is true, when will these "mortals" receive immortality, surely some of them will live to the end of the MK?

I've addressed such a point in past posts (perhaps you do not recall, that's okay). Here ^ , we're talking about the point in time of Jesus "RETURN" to the earth (FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom) [just making sure we're on the same page thus far]. I'm saying that ALL who will ENTER that time period are "the righteous" ["saved" persons] mortals (those who have "endure[d] unto the end" of the trib) as well as "resurrected [to stand again on the earth] saints" (also "the Church which is His body" RETURNS "WITH" Him, for that)… so ALL "saints" of all times will be present FOR the promised and prophesied earthly MK age.

[note: I'm not saying I'm certain "the Church which is His body" will reside solely "on the earth" throughout the MK age, but that's outside of the point I am making here; we will RETURN "WITH" Him, because HE will be "returning" at that point in time--we are addressing [in this post] the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth. The subsequent MK time period involves ALL saints of all times--some of them will be "still-living mortals" and note this is who I am addressing in this post, and to answer your specific question ^, here]

So for the "still-living mortals" ["the righteous"/"saints"] who ENTER the MK age, I believe (and have stated in the past) that Jesus' words in John 11:25-26 apply here: "[after having said 'I AM the RESURRECTION AND the LIFE' and in verse 25 speak of those 'though he were dead yet SHALL he LIVE,' goes on to say] AND whosoever LIVETH and believeth in Me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?"

So He's addressing both those who DIE... AND those who "LIVE" [are still alive] that (BECAUSE HE is also "THE LIFE") "SHALL NEVER DIE" (so... "but the righteous into life eternal"--the Sheep of the nations [mortals, because they are both, Sheep AND the goats, "BEFORE Him," this is NOT "UP IN Heaven" ['goats' of the nations are never present THERE], and these are "still-living/mortals" standing before Him at the Sheep and goat separation/judgment, when He returns to the earth, at His Second-Coming-to-the-earth point in the chronology--only the Sheep/the righteous/saints will ENTER the earthly MK but, these alone [of all the other saints also present for it], only THESE will be capable of bearing children/reproducing because they are "still mortals," yet because of what Jesus had said ["[I AM the RESURRECTION] AND THE LIFE"], they "SHALL NEVER DIE" (JESUS HIMSELF WILL BE PRESENT AND RULING/REIGNING!!! [no matter where the actual location of Him will reside, doesn't matter for this post/point]; again, the children born to them are not "born automatically righteous," so they are distinct, in that, any of them may be susceptible to "death" [it will be much more rare in the MK age] but only the rebellious will die [who will later be "the dead" at the GWTj [among those, "the dead [/unsaved/unrighteous]" of all times])

2. The GWTJ is for the resurrected dead, no living will be judged there, so when?

We were talking about the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth (and what happens then), so I hope I've covered this question sufficiently in the paragraph/section above.

[TheDivineWatermark]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

I concur that Math 22:7-8 refers to 70AD. I believe this is about the FACT you got right.

...except this is NOT what I've stated. Clearly you have only given a cursory glance in skimming what I labored to put in that post, because this was not the point I was making.

--verse 7 is the 70ad events

--verse 8 is the "THEN [AFTER the 70ad events] SAITH [recall He's in Heaven here] HE to His servants" (and then I explained in what manner He did so, since He was IN HEAVEN AFTER the 70ad events, yet clearly "THEN SAITH HE to His servants," and where that info was given and when. Chronology is important. Read my post again , because you've missed my points. )

[Noeb]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

The tree of life is for healing. So provide scripture that says what you claim, please?

you do not need scripture for the tol enabling man to live forever. Besides you just admitted it heals, and scripture does not place a limitation on that.

[Noeb]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

The fact you can't tell the difference makes it impossible for me to help you.

So we only count believing Jews as Israel when it's convenient for our doctrine and whether or not we want to argue with someone on the internet?

[Noeb]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

You told me earlier to go and learn how to "read" whereas you're the one who doesn't know the difference between the metaphor and the literal. Mark tried to point you in the right direction, but you attacked him.

There you are in typical fashion with your false attach allegation. Which means you're realizing just how big a hole you've dug for yourself.

Attack
.

[TheDivineWatermark]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

While the 12 Disciples and Apostles are the top, the rest of the saints (Jew/Gentile) will also reign and judge with them too...

In this post of mine, I was only addressing the idea being presented regarding the identity of "Israel" (i.e. showing that "the twelve tribes of Israel" will be present in the MK age). I'm not addressing who all will sit on thrones and where and what for (for that, I see two distinct groups, if you will, in the Rev20:4 verse, separated by the "[colon] and I saw..." [these "reign with [G3326 - meta - accompanying] Him" (distinct from our "WITH [G4862 - syn - denoting "UNION" and/or "IDENTIFICATION WITH"] Him"); and I've mentioned the 12 and that they will sit on 12 thrones judgING the 12 tribes of Israel [during the earthly MK age]; and I've mentioned [I think in this thread (?)] that "we [that is, the Church which is His body] shall JUDGE ANGELS," and recall what I've said about the parallels [time-wise] of Isaiah 24:21-22[23] with [and note: 'punish the host of the high ones that are on high, AND the kings of the earth upon the earth'] with that of Rev19:19-21/16:14-16/20:5a 's timing; etc...). Add to this what I've pointed out also about the "RETURN" verses in Lk19:12,15,17,19 about "have thou authority over 10 cities" (this is at His "RETURN" and these are still-living persons at that point in the chronology, given this "responsibility" also).

[Jesuslovesus]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

Look at it this way, you pointed out in a previous post that the GWTJ is for the dead (and I agree). Since it is the last judgment - if there remains mortals who are evil, wicked, murderers, etc as stated in Rev 22:15, when will they be judged in your opinion?

They are Judged throughout the Millenium. You quoted the Passages within these threads, passages like Rev 19:11 & Rev 20:4-6. Jesus is the righteous Judge over all the Earth along with the Saints.


Notice these things.


1. Only those who are found written in the Book of Life get to live. Rev 20:15.


2. Only those found in the Lambs book of Life get to enter the NJ. Rev 21:27.


3. In the NHNE there is NO more Death since it is cast into the LoF. Rev 20:14, Rev 21:4

[TheDivineWatermark]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

Is that, "until," a point in time, of their choosing or a point in time, according to the choice of God?

Is that,"until," relative to, -----

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. and or But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Will the until and those passages take place in the same relative period of time?

Well, let me start off by saying that I believe the passages stating "but of that day and hour knoweth no man" [not even Jesus or the angels] is referring (per CONTEXT) to His Second Coming to the earth, and that "knoweth" is in the PERFECT TENSE, which basically means, "until further information is supplied that might or would change that status," and that is exactly what I believe the LATER 95ad "[The] Revelation" DID, when He supplied FURTHER INFORMATION regarding THAT VERY SUBJECT, therein (including numerous time stamps and day-amounts and other timing clues throughout The Revelation).

I believe Scripture indicates that "Israel" will come to faith WITHIN the tribulation period [afterward is "too late"!] (ex: "in their affliction they will seek Me early/earnestly"); I lean heavily toward Paul being a "type" of the future 144,000 (there was a study out there, long years back, reflecting the similarities here, and the manner in which Paul came to "see the Light," so to speak, lol ["and SUDDENLY there shined round about him a LIGHT FROM HEAVEN"], and where Scripture says of Paul, "as of one born out of due time" [meaning, earlier than the rest--God had a special task for Paul to do]; etc); and that "the Church which is His body" will not be present on the earth during those trib years (Israel will be doing the "INVITING" to their promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age [aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" which is distinct from "the MARRIAGE" itself which is what will take place IN HEAVEN and involve "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" not "the GUESTS [PLURAL]" there, and not "the 10 [or even 5] virgins [PLURAL]" that He is also not "MARRYING"]).

So I believe that the "until / till" correlates [fairly closely] with the "UNTIL" of Romans 11:25 ("blindness... UNTIL") and that point (being earlier) is at or following the "BE COME IN [G" part of that verse (a specific "purpose" having been completed, or put into play, if you will)…


I had more, but was cut off during my typing, will try to add those points later...sry