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  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    I didn't know you still believed this, the prophesy says after they are gathered back they Will Never be scattered again so to believe this was fullfilled by the return of some exiles from babylon defies belief Ezek 37:25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever.They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever..
    Note that I pointed out that there next gathering after the Babylonian captivity is about those in Christ and they have no need to be scattered again. So my position is valid.

    Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Not sure what you mean here we agree on this point, I'm confused why you think i'm unable to grasp things we agree on
    My apologies. I owe you a cuppa.
    It's all about nuances; the Jewish believers are gathered to Christ whose everlasting Throne will be in Jerusalem. It is consistent with Ezek 27:25

    Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    You're focusing on the wrong part why not try starting in Zech 12:10 When did this Happen? How about Zech 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. When in your view was this fountian opened? Thats not my claim unsure why you think it is? The passage says this is my covenant with them "When I take away there sin" according to you this happened at the Cross right? Unrightness as already been removed from Jacob? Isn't that your whole position?
    Zech 12:10 is an end-time age prophecy. It occurs probably at the time of the Two Witnesses. IOW, it will still be at this age. Remember that our core difference is your belief that the new covenant will start AFTER Jesus returns, ie the MK?

    Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    So this is a Different Covenant to you? You believe in a 3rd Covenant that points to the "national revival of Israel at the time of the Two Witnesses" do you have a name for this third covenant since its not the NC in your view?
    There is no 3rd covenant. The passage still refers to the new covenant which started at the cross and will traverse into the millennial age because it has no end.

    Comment


    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

      Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
      I was responding to the above post #907.
      Yes look what you claim i said and what you claim I said.


      No what i'm saying is you go Ra Ra when ever someone who is Amil sounds like they agree with you, but you must understand they believe the NC and the MK is Now. In other words they agree with my position only they believe that the MK/NC is NOW as opposed to commensing at the second coming of Christ.

      Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
      What is unfortunate is your claim that "everyone" who believes that the New Covenant is now operative is Amil.
      I never claimed everyone who believes the NC is now is Amil i said those who are Amil when they agree with you they also believe that the MK is Now. IOW they don't believe like you do that the NC is now and the Kingdom is later. This is a far cry from me claiming that "everyone" who believe the NC is now is Amil.

      Comment


      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

        Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
        No "understanding my side" simply means you don't make comments that misrepresent what I'm saying. It will save everyone a lot of time so I have to come back and clear up what was said after you fill my posts with errors and claim I said this or that. If you have questions ask but don't claim I said things I Didn't simple because you're in a rush and don't have time to read carefully.

        The Blood is active now not the NC. Jesus doesn't have to Die again because "because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

        Are we now a Kingdom and Priests that Reign on Earth? Obviously not to this day people are still coming under "the Blood" but after Jesus comes back people will have to join themselves to the NC just like people could join themselves in the past to the OC.
        JLU: you may not have explicitly said what I highlighted, but they are clearly implied by your position. Don't you understand that? For example, how can you acknowledge that Jesus will not die again and yet claim the new covenant will start sometime in the distant future? Think it through, that's all I ask, brother. Rev 5:9 which you cited is a confirmation that through the blood of the everlasting covenant, tribes of the earth who believe are now drawn to Christ.

        Why do you keep pushing it to the future when it's already upon us?

        We shall reign with Christ when we inherit the promised kingdom, but we must first be saved...this is where the new covenant comes in.

        Comment


        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

          Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
          I know you don't care where they belong, I just want to you to understand that they don't divorce the MK/NC in regards to timing like you do.
          Brother, you and I know that one may be right on one topic and woefully wrong in another. For example, you are Pretrib and am PreMil, however, we have agreed (despite our disagreement on others) on so many doctrines over the years. So does it mean that those we agreed upon are directly tied to our position on the Pretrib/Premil/Amil debate? Of course, not. That's my point.

          Comment


          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

            Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
            Note that I pointed out that there next gathering after the Babylonian captivity is about those in Christ and they have no need to be scattered again. So my position is valid.
            Not sure how your position is valid lets backtrack a little.


            I said


            Quote Jesuslovesus : Because that is what all the prophecies about the NC say they include the Gathering of the Exiles, The cleansing of Sin, the title of "My People" and the Sanutuary of God being in the Midst of Israel forever more.


            To which you replied


            Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
            On the contrary, you are the one ignoring the fact that ALL these aspects of the New Covenant as you pointed out are already fulfilled.

            Then you list your reasons


            Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
            1.The first as you cited was those in exile and it was fulfilled after the Babylonian captivity.


            2. The second phase of gathering refers to Jews receiving and believing in the Gospel and being gathered to their Messiah (not necessarily their homeland). The days of Jewish exile is over since no Jew today is imposed exile.


            3. the redemption of land belongs to those who believe from Abraham up to the converts at the eschaton.

            So in your list the best you did was address that the exiles had been gathered in the past which i countered with my above statement quoting Ezekiel 37:25.


            But you still leave somethings unexplained.


            1. Does the nation of Israel currently hold the title of "My People" or is God still hiding his face from them?
            2. Is the Sanctuary of God currently in the Midst of Israel forevermore from the Cross - Eternity?
            3. Are all prophesies that speak of a Future cleansing of Sin for Israel already fulfilled, for example, Isaiah 4:2-6, Jer 33:8, Ezekiel 36:24-25, Zech 13:1, Romans 11:26-27.


            My questions regarding point 3


            Let's quote 2 of them and you explain how in your view they were fulfilled at the cross.

            Isaiah 4:2-4 In that day the branch of the LORD shall be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land shall be the pride and honor of the survivors of Israel. 3And he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy, everyone who has been recorded for life in Jerusalem, 4 when the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning.


            Ezekiel 36:24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.a 28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29And I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses


            When did all of this occur after Jesus died on the Cross?

            Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
            My apologies. I owe you a cuppa.
            It's all about nuances; the Jewish believers are gathered to Christ whose everlasting Throne will be in Jerusalem. It is consistent with Ezek 37:25
            Yes and according to Paul this is when God sprinkles them with Clean water and the NC begins.






            Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
            Zech 12:10 is an end-time age prophecy. It occurs probably at the time of the Two Witnesses. IOW, it will still be at this age. Remember that our core difference is your belief that the new covenant will start AFTER Jesus returns, ie the MK?
            There is no 3rd covenant. The passage still refers to the new covenant which started at the cross and will traverse into the millennial age because it has no end.
            Then why did you claim before that Romans 11:26-27 was irrelevant because it wasn't referring to the NC see #170 where you state.


            Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
            It will be an error to assume that Rom 11:27 is speaking about the NC because it's not.
            So once more if there is no Third Covenant and Rom 11:27 is not about the NC what is it about??

            Comment


            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

              Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
              I don't know why you keep mentioning this but yes i agree.
              Apologies if you think I'm being repetitive. But I believe it's imperative to clarify this so the casual reader doesn't think we are advocating a get-out-of-jail-free card for all Israel whether they accept or reject Christ.

              Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
              No idea how thats a proof that the NC is in effect as you said this passage clearly put the "Covenant with them"(excluding the gentiles) at the second Coming. You claimed before that this passage did not refer to the NC so in your view what is the Name of this Covenant mentioned by Paul in Romans 11:26-27?
              Sigh! Don't know how long I can continue to explain this. Jeremiah plainly said that one of the features of the new covenant is the ability to forgive sin. Those who enter the MK will be perfect (resurrected/raptured). So you can't forgive one who is already sinless, can you? But it is at this age where we live in sin that forgiveness is relevant and necessary.

              And no one is accepted in Christ with their sin intact - Jesus, through his blood forgives their sin. You can make the connection if you have not closed your mind that the only way to interpret the prophecy is MK fulfilment thereof.

              Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
              And they remain in mortal bodies.
              Exactly. Which places them in this age and not in the millennium.

              Comment


              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                JLU: you may not have explicitly said what I highlighted, but they are clearly implied by your position. Don't you understand that? For example, how can you acknowledge that Jesus will not die again and yet claim the new covenant will start sometime in the distant future? Think it through, that's all I ask, brother. Rev 5:9 which you cited is a confirmation that through the blood of the everlasting covenant, tribes of the earth who believe are now drawn to Christ.

                Why do you keep pushing it to the future when it's already upon us?

                We shall reign with Christ when we inherit the promised kingdom, but we must first be saved...this is where the new covenant comes in.
                I tried to explain this but you seem to miss the Comparisons in the Passages, In the chapters we're debating the writer of Hebrews Draws from the Story of Exodus to compare to what Christ did on the Cross for the NC with what Moses did for the OC. Go read exodus 24, Moses Read the conditions of the Law, the people agreed and it was sealed in blood, then Moses and the elders went up the mountian and Moses spent 40 days and nights their where he just like Christ acted in the role of Mediator between the People and God. But clearly at this time and beyond it there was a Gap between the people sealing the Covenant in Blood and the NC actually beginning.

                Comment


                • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                  Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                  No idea what you mean here Rev 5:9 corroborates to Hebrew 9:11-14 which comes before the part about Jesus becoming the "Mediator" or the NC in Hebrews 9:15. You seem to want to Jump the gun and add NC into everywhere we mention the Blood. The Blood is the Foundation the NC is the House. The House does come before the foundation as you claim above. One has to Accept the Blood to be able to be a part of the Future NC.
                  Looks like you'd rather believe in fairies than accept that the NC is now operative. I have explained it in a zillion ways with scripture.

                  Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                  You seem to have jumped ahead in the passage to when Paul started to talk about the Gentiles, try focusing on Israel in verses Romans 11:1-12. What was Israel seeking that they "did not attain" what did the *Election Obtain* while the rest were blinded. What does the *Full Inclusion* of Israel look like?
                  In Rom 11, Paul juxtaposed Israel with the Gentiles and explained how their fates presently differ. He pointed out that while that of Israel is currently bleak, and the Gentiles bright, he outlined why they are outcasts right now (some of the branches broken off). Yet expressed hope v-26-27 that they will in due course, accept Christ and be grafted back into the olive tree.

                  What they are looking for which they cannot find - is about their futile attempt to attain salvation through the Law rather than by faith in Christ, see Rom 10:1-4. The term "election" denotes the saved (past, present and future) who not because of their personal effort will be saved by God.

                  Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                  Once more All this is accomplished by the BLOOD OF CHRIST no NC needed here which is the point! You're still quoting passages about the blood and lumping in the NC but all these passages go forward and speak of a time when the NC is actually active, that's why I'm in Ephesians 2:19-22 and you're quoting and making points out of verse 11-13.

                  IOW you keep talking about the House as if it is the Foundation when it is NOT all passages that speak about the NC Usually mention that it was Established *BY THE BLOOD* the Blood comes first!
                  I repeat it because it is the blood of Jesus that established the new covenant. There's no other way to understand it.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                    JLU: you may not have explicitly said what I highlighted, but they are clearly implied by your position. Don't you understand that? For example, how can you acknowledge that Jesus will not die again and yet claim the new covenant will start sometime in the distant future? Think it through, that's all I ask, brother. Rev 5:9 which you cited is a confirmation that through the blood of the everlasting covenant, tribes of the earth who believe are now drawn to Christ.

                    Why do you keep pushing it to the future when it's already upon us?

                    We shall reign with Christ when we inherit the promised kingdom, but we must first be saved...this is where the new covenant comes in.
                    I did i explained my postion in the same passage i used to show that Jesus would not have to Die again.

                    Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

                    This is what Happening NOW BY *THE BLOOD* Jesus Appears in the Presence of God for us. This is his Role as Mediator!

                    25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

                    26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

                    27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

                    28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

                    Verse 28 is When I believe the NC starts, and i group it with passages such as Hebrews 10:10-25 Hebrews 12:22-26. All these passages imagine a time when we actually enter heaven by the way that Jesus opened by his blood so the NC can be established, this is what i believe John Seeing in Rev Chapter 5.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                      Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                      Looks like you'd rather believe in fairies than accept that the NC is now operative. I have explained it in a zillion ways with scripture.
                      I outlined why I didn't believe the NC was active and none of the passages you have quoted so far to me establish how. All you do is claim the NC is necessary to fulfill all the things the NT claims are fulfilled by the Blood of Christ.

                      Once more if you want me to accept the NC is active now this is what I need you to show to make me believe that the NC is now operative.


                      1.the Gathering ALL the Exiles


                      2. The cleansing of Sin of the Nation of Israel


                      3. The title of "My People" for Israel


                      4. the Sanctuary of God is in the Midst of Israel forever more.


                      5. Judah + Israel is One Kingdom Living in the Land


                      6. Jesus is King on the Throne of David.

                      Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                      I repeat it because it is the blood of Jesus that established the new covenant. There's no other way to understand it.
                      Yes this statement I agree with, the things we differ on is


                      1. When the NC becomes active
                      2. What an active NC actually looks Like(I believe it will look like what I outlined above or in a Premil view what we understand to be the MK)

                      Comment


                      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                        Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                        1. The "Kingdom" referenced is the Millennial Age and ONLY those made perfect by faith in Christ will qualify (Eph 2:8-9). This is where the New Covenant Jesus has given to the faithful comes in. No one can be saved without (a) belief in Christ (b) forgiveness of their sin.

                        2. Scripture says that the New Covenant provides forgiveness of sin.
                        Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

                        If your position is correct, then it would mean that Jesus will forgive the sin of those ALREADY in the MK. I don't need to remind you how false this assertion is because only those whose sins are ALREADY forgiven are allowed in. In Heb 3:7-8, the scripture says "Today, if you hear his voice, (ie if you hear the Gospel) do not harden your heart. Therefore, if you hear the Gospel today, believe and receive Christ that your sins may be forgiven. TODAY!! Not tomorrow or in the MK!

                        3. I don't know which kingdom you think you have "entered"? If you mean in a symbolic sense, then may I remind you that those who are supposedly "in the kingdom" are believers which places them in the remit of the New Covenant?

                        In conclusion: the new covenant prepares the believer (by cleansing them of sin, enabling righteous living, etc) to be fit for the promised kingdom of God. To understand this, you need first to appreciate the role that God intended the new covenant to play.
                        I don't think you really understand what your belief is putting forth. Under the auspices of the kingdom, whether it be the KOH or the KOG, under the rites and privileges of the kingdom, we ENTER the kingdom now (KOH/ KOG) but we can only inherit the KOG, and this inheritance is the salvation that we enter into in the form of this corruptible putting on incorruption. A simple explanation of this principal is:

                        *[[Heb 9:28]] KJV* So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

                        This is the inheritance of our salvation. Every reference to our kingdom inheritance is of a future time when we put on the cloak of eternal life. But yet you claim that under the rites and privileges of the new covenant, we "inherit salvation" in an ongoing basis where the covenant is instituted now. Unless it is presented in a denoted "past tense[I am not aware of any]", the use of heir or inheritance speaks of something that we have not yet acquired. But you insist that the "eternal inheritance" of Hebrews 9:15 is our inherited salvation, in the present time. With that being said, you have shown no other scriptures portraying the inheritance of the new covenant. I guess because you have extensively denied that the inheritance of the new covenant is not a future inheritance, you cannot accept that it is something other than the here and now salvation that you proffer.

                        Maybe it would help if you could see that the new covenant is that of a man going off into a far country and promises to pay his servants when he returns. But he is gone for a very long time.

                        Verse list:
                        Mat 21:33-43 KJV Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The KINGDOM of GOD shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

                        This parable is one of the few times that Matthew speaks of the KOG, in contrast to his use of the KOH. When you understand that Matthew NEVER speaks of inheriting the KOH, nor does any other NT writer, perhaps you can see that KOG refers to the inheritance that is received at the return of the king. Matthew is the only gospel writer that uses the phrase kingdom of heaven AND the word church, and we surprisingly find both used in accord with each other.

                        *[[Mat 16:18]] KJV* And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
                        19. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
                        The KOH is the kingdom that is built upon the foundation and principles of the apostles and prophets.

                        *[[Eph 2:20]] KJV* And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

                        *[[Luk 22:29]] KJV* And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
                        *[[Luk 22:30]] KJV* That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

                        We "enter" the kingdom that is built upon the apostles and prophets when we believe the gospel message that is presented to us, founded by Jesus. But we will only "inherit" the kingdom that is headed up by Jesus... When he returns. The same thing is the principle of the new covenant. We enter into it now, but we inherit things later.

                        *[[2Ti 4:1]] KJV* I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

                        Blessings
                        The PuP

                        Comment


                        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                          Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                          Yea the above post is a good example of you ignoring everything I said so you could just repeat your personal view again. You didn't address one statement i actually made.
                          It would have been easier to respond to this post properly if it had been directed to someone.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                            Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                            Not sure how your position is valid lets backtrack a little. I said
                            Quote Jesuslovesus : Because that is what all the prophecies about the NC say they include the Gathering of the Exiles, The cleansing of Sin, the title of "My People" and the Sanutuary of God being in the Midst of Israel forever more. To which you replied. Then you list your reasons
                            The way you wrote the above piece makes it difficult to respond.

                            Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                            So in your list the best you did was address that the exiles had been gathered in the past which i countered with my above statement quoting Ezekiel 37:25.
                            But you still leave somethings unexplained.

                            1. Does the nation of Israel currently hold the title of "My People" or is God still hiding his face from them?
                            2. Is the Sanctuary of God currently in the Midst of Israel forevermore from the Cross - Eternity?
                            3. Are all prophesies that speak of a Future cleansing of Sin for Israel already fulfilled, for example, Isaiah 4:2-6, Jer 33:8, Ezekiel 36:24-25, Zech 13:1, Romans 11:26-27.

                            My questions regarding point 3

                            Let's quote 2 of them and you explain how in your view they were fulfilled at the cross.

                            Isaiah 4:2-4 In that day the branch of the LORD shall be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land shall be the pride and honor of the survivors of Israel. 3And he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy, everyone who has been recorded for life in Jerusalem, 4 when the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning.

                            Ezekiel 36:24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.a 28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29And I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses
                            1. Until you understand who is God's "people" you'll never understand how this prophecy has been fulfilled. Since the first advent, those who are God's people denote believers across the board, i.e Jew and Gentile. It started with the Jewish disciples and spread out to the Apostles which included Gentiles, e.g. the Greek Apostles like Titus, etc. And from this number, it grew to the expanded body of Christ today. Of course, it's easy to believe that "My People" is exclusively Israel. But I can tell you that such a definition is wrong.

                            2. The New Covenant started on the cross and will extend into the millennium. It is an everlasting covenant, thus it has no end and God's sanctuary will be established in Jerusalem when his kingdom comes down from heaven.

                            3. There will be a national Jewish revival in the end times when the Two Witnesses comes. Honestly, I don't know where you are going with these questions because the NC promises to cleanse Israel of sin started after Jesus died. To claim it will only happen after Jesus returns don't make sense since such position ignores the apostles and every other Jew since 1st century that has given their lives to Christ and thus received forgiveness of sin.

                            4. Isaiah 4:2-4 and Ezek 36:24 is being fulfilled in those who come to Christ. v-4 when the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning.

                            Pay attention to the sentence; this prophecy may have been future to Isaiah's time, but it's definitely happening in our time now.

                            Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                            When did all of this occur after Jesus died on the Cross? Yes and according to Paul this is when God sprinkles them with Clean water and the NC begins.
                            All these started at Pentecost. And the new covenant has ALREADY started.

                            Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                            Then why did you claim before that Romans 11:26-27 was irrelevant because it wasn't referring to the NC see #170 where you state. So once more if there is no Third Covenant and Rom 11:27 is not about the NC what is it about??
                            Paul wasn't suggesting that the new covenant is in the future.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                              Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                              I tried to explain this but you seem to miss the Comparisons in the Passages, In the chapters we're debating the writer of Hebrews Draws from the Story of Exodus to compare to what Christ did on the Cross for the NC with what Moses did for the OC. Go read exodus 24, Moses Read the conditions of the Law, the people agreed and it was sealed in blood, then Moses and the elders went up the mountian and Moses spent 40 days and nights their where he just like Christ acted in the role of Mediator between the People and God. But clearly at this time and beyond it there was a Gap between the people sealing the Covenant in Blood and the NC actually beginning.
                              Your analogy missed the crucial point. The OC was ratified when Moses sprinkled the blood upon the people of Israel, not when he went up to mount Sinai.

                              Ex 24:5 And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the Lord.

                              6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
                              7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.
                              8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                                Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                                I did i explained my postion in the same passage i used to show that Jesus would not have to Die again.

                                Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

                                This is what Happening NOW BY *THE BLOOD* Jesus Appears in the Presence of God for us. This is his Role as Mediator!

                                25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

                                26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

                                27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

                                28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

                                Verse 28 is When I believe the NC starts, and i group it with passages such as Hebrews 10:10-25 Hebrews 12:22-26. All these passages imagine a time when we actually enter heaven by the way that Jesus opened by his blood so the NC can be established, this is what i believe John Seeing in Rev Chapter 5.
                                1. You agree that Jesus is our Mediator; so if he's not the Mediator of the New Covenant, what is he mediating for then? Heb 9:15 & 12:24 clearly called him the mediator of the new covenant. I don't know how you can claim it's saying something else.
                                2. There is nothing in Heb 9:28 that suggests that the NC will start in the future.

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