Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

[Noeb]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

I honestly Don't know what in 2 Cor 2 you believe is a quote from Isaiah 64, personally, I'm just at a loss for what exactly you're trying to tell me.

Like I said, Messiah came to gathered Israel. That the earthly Messianic kingdom has not been initiated doesn't imply they have not been gathered. The spiritual aspects were implemented, some of the natural were not. Is the glass half full or half empty? Which ever you choose you cannot deny the glass has water (NC) halfway. Therefore it cannot be said the is no water (NC) in the glass.

[Noeb]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

I just want you to direct you to Noebs Cyrus/Messiah argument in Post#1006 this is essentially the path you must take if you believe all or most of Jeremiah 30-31 was fulfilled by the first Advent.

and the path we should take. I haven't seen a refutation on post 1006. I understand that some say, and some commentators say, oh they were gathered but it's not THE gathering, but scripture is pretty clear it was. There will not be another.

[Jesuslovesus]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

And you figured this out from scripture or just your carnal wisdom? If you can't provide scripture that shows 1 Tim 4:5 as temporary, it's impossible to take your claim above seriously.

I already provided scripture, the same one you in your "carnal wisdom" claimed was irrelevant, Once more 1 Corithians 15:24-28 shows that Jesus role as Mediator is temporary. Case closed.

[Jesuslovesus]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

This is a junk doctrine. Since the Bible didn't say there is a limit to Jesus Christ' role as mediator, any claim to the contrary is carnal and unscriptural. Period!!!

Just remember according to Trivalee all the claims made by the Men quoted in Post #1041 is "carnal and unscriptural". Just remember this is the guy who believes Jesus is an Olive tree.

[Jesuslovesus]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

This is a junk doctrine. Since the Bible didn't say there is a limit to Jesus Christ' role as mediator, any claim to the contrary is carnal and unscriptural. Period!!!

I do believe how I articulated my view was very clunky and inarticulate. First time I ever argued Jesus role as mediator Ends. Let me Just quote someone else instead who seems to express my view better then I did. The fact is 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 does establish the fact that there is a limit to Jesus role as Mediator, Rev 21:3 shows that God makes his home with man without the need for a mediator either in the form of the Man Jesus or a temple.

Quote C. Hedge, D.D. : "That dominion to which He was exalted after His resurrection, when all power in heaven and earth was committed to His hands. This kingdom, which He exercises as the Theanthropos, and which extends over all principalities and powers, He is to deliver up when the work of redemption is accomplished. He was invested with this dominion in His mediatorial character for the purpose of carrying on His work to its consummation. When that is done, i.e., when He has subdued all His enemies, then He will no longer reign over the universe as Mediator, but only as God: while His headship over His people is to continue forever. "


I'm hardly in the desert in my view on this subject(not like you care to be informed).


The fact that you believe that God will Continue to be Human after he accomplished the purpose that made him take on flesh in the first place is not surprising coming from you. But I Do believe God will become All in All just like the bible states.

[Jesuslovesus]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

and the path we should take. I haven't seen a refutation on post 1006. I understand that some say, and some commentators say, oh they were gathered but it's not THE gathering, but scripture is pretty clear it was. There will not be another.

I disagree there clearly will be another gathering of Israel(the people), I mean look at Israel(the land) now clearly there already has been a new regathering.

[Jesuslovesus]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

Like I said, Messiah came to gathered Israel. That the earthly Messianic kingdom has not been initiated doesn't imply they have not been gathered. The spiritual aspects were implemented, some of the natural were not. Is the glass half full or half empty? Which ever you choose you cannot deny the glass has water (NC) halfway. Therefore it cannot be said the is no water (NC) in the glass.

Sounds like you admit some of the Natural aspects of the NC were not implemented. For me, I personally believe all of it is implemented or it's not in effect, nothing you have presented so far will change my position on that unfortunately.

[Jesuslovesus]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

The only thing meaningless is your claim that Jesus is not the Olive tree.

I wonder if you understand how foolish you sound by letting this drag on.

I will believe if you prove that a tree can survive without root. Show me a tree levitating in the air.

Really??? The only proof that you will accept that in Pauls Analogy in Romans 11:16-24 that Jesus was represented by the *Root* and not as an *Olive Tree* would be a tree "levitating in the air".

Will you feel better if I just pretended you were right?

[Noeb]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

The fact is 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 does establish the fact that there is a limit to Jesus role as Mediator

I'm not sure how anyone injects Mediator here at all.

Rev 21:3 shows that God makes his home with man without the need for a mediator

Yet they are there because of the NC and its Mediator. Also note that "a need for a Mediator" implies action of a Mediator which again is completely different than Jesus having already completed mediation, therefore being called and remaining our Mediator.

Quote C. Hedge, D.D. : "That dominion to which He was exalted after His resurrection, when all power in heaven and earth was committed to His hands. This kingdom, which He exercises as the Theanthropos, and which extends over all principalities and powers, He is to deliver up when the work of redemption is accomplished. He was invested with this dominion in His mediatorial character for the purpose of carrying on His work to its consummation. When that is done, i.e., when He has subdued all His enemies, then He will no longer reign over the universe as Mediator, but only as God: while His headship over His people is to continue forever. "

It's about putting enemies under his feet. Why did he inject the roll of a Mediator, which is not about putting enemies under his feet?

[Noeb]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

I disagree there clearly will be another gathering of Israel(the people), I mean look at Israel(the land) now clearly there already has been a new regathering.

Scripture reveals the gathering has already taken place, and there no indication God has another in store.

[Noeb]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

Sounds like you admit some of the Natural aspects of the NC were not implemented. For me, I personally believe all of it is implemented or it's not in effect, nothing you have presented so far will change my position on that unfortunately.

and I have repeatedly said you impose a demand scripture does not, and you have not presented that demand in scripture.

[Jesuslovesus]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

I'm not sure how anyone injects Mediator here at all. Yet they are there because of the NC and its Mediator. Also note that "a need for a Mediator" implies action of a Mediator which again is completely different than Jesus having already completed mediation, therefore being called and remaining our Mediator. It's about putting enemies under his feet. Why did he inject the roll of a Mediator, which is not about putting enemies under his feet?

The confusion you have in my opinion is that you are not understanding or maybe not defining the Phrase that God may be All in All. The point is that God is not a Man. Jesus humbled himself so that he who was God could Become the mediator(Philippians 2:6-11) also known sometimes as God the Son. The idea that he will remain the Mediator forever basically claims that God will always be A Man in the form of God the Son. This simply is not the case which is what I tried to outline with Eqw in Post 1039, that is his stated position, that Jesus will remain in the form he took as mediator (100% Humans)(100%God) for all eternity and essentially be separate from God the Father. Which is why it is outlined in the passage that then the Son will be subject also, that God may be All in ALL. (100% God, 0% Human). I believe that's one interpretation of the passage, not sure if I articulated it well, seems like a heavy topic but quite interesting.

[Trivalee]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

Yes, I called up those scholars on biblehub and told them I was having a debate on bibleforums and that it would really help me if they also thought the phrase That God would be All in All also meant that the Role of Mediator ends. Then they liked me so much that they wrote it down so I could quote it and share it with you. Let's just go with that . Clearly, even though they and I think it's relevant you can still say "it has nothing to do with the mediator" and ignore it anyway.

JLU: the scholars' postulations are merely their own understanding. We can, of course, review their thoughts without recourse to accepting them if (in my case, they are not) they are not in line with scripture. The truth is that there's no theory (even if outright ludicrous) that you won't find support on the internet. For example, there are reprobates who deny that Jesus is God; search the internet and you'll find several articles in support. So providing a link to an online article doesn't mean the views expressed therein are inerrant.

[Trivalee]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

I already provided scripture, the same one you in your "carnal wisdom" claimed was irrelevant, Once more 1 Corithians 15:24-28 shows that Jesus role as Mediator is temporary. Case closed.

Sorry, but 2 Cor 15:24-28 doesn't say that after Jesus has delivered the Kingdom to God, his role as Mediator ends. You are clearly introducing what is not stated in the texts. Out of curiosity, would you say that Jesus Christ' role as our eternal High Priest is also temporal?

[Trivalee]

Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

Just remember according to Trivalee all the claims made by the Men quoted in Post #1041 is "carnal and unscriptural". Just remember this is the guy who believes Jesus is an Olive tree.

Yes, I gladly own what I said and the Olive tree in Rom 11 denotes Jesus Christ.