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  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    This is false, I told you the verse that not only *implies* it it explicitly states it once more 1 Corinthians 15:28. The *SON* will be Subject to the God the Father, and God will be ALL in ALL. It's strange that you don't agree with Paul but that is fine.

    It is an Interpretation of what is Stated in Scripture, just like you seem to be offering your own alternitives that are "strange".

    I'm done here if you can't even agree that this passage says the *Son will be Subject* onto God and you can't understand what that means not my problem. But the purpose of the Son is clearly NOT forever.
    JLU: the problem is that you seem to have taken your eyes off the objective. While God is, all in all, it still doesn't negate the role of Jesus Christ as (1) God - God is Triune remember? (2) Jesus will also continue to be a Mediator and Eternal High Priest. There is nothing in scripture that disqualifies him from these roles in perpetuity.

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    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

      Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
      I told you the verse that not only *implies* it it explicitly states it once more 1 Corinthians 15:28. The *SON* will be Subject to the God the Father, and God will be ALL in ALL. Not strange just not something you agree on which is fine. It is an Interpretation of what is Stated in Scripture, just like you seem to be offering your own alternitives that are "strange". I'm done here if you can't even agree that this passage says the *Son will be Subject* onto God and you can't understand what that means not my problem.
      Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
      This is false, I told you the verse that not only *implies* it it explicitly states it once more 1 Corinthians 15:28. The *SON* will be Subject to the God the Father, and God will be ALL in ALL. It's strange that you don't agree with Paul but that is fine.

      It is an Interpretation of what is Stated in Scripture, just like you seem to be offering your own alternitives that are "strange".

      I'm done here if you can't even agree that this passage says the *Son will be Subject* onto God and you can't understand what that means not my problem. But the purpose of the Son is clearly NOT forever.
      What does "the son will be subject to" have to do with his past, present, and continued role as mediator and the everlasting implications of that role? A future change in the need for the role doesn't change the past, present, and current need. If you're going to dwell with God fully on earth forever because of the NC and the mediator of the NC, how do you remove the mediator and his role from the equation, no longer needing the NC and what the mediator did for you?

      Where did I say I do not agree the passage says son will be subject? This is the first post I have commented on it. I agree it says it and I agree with Paul. I don't know why you think it has anything to do with a change in the mediator role, since the reason God will be able to be all in all is because of the mediator.

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      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

        Originally posted by Noeb View Post
        What does "the son will be subject to" have to do with his past, present, and continued role as mediator and the everlasting implications of that role? A future change in the need for the role doesn't change the past, present, and current need. If you're going to dwell with God fully on earth forever because of the NC and the mediator of the NC, how do you remove the mediator and his role from the equation, no longer needing the NC and what the mediator did for you?

        Where did I say I do not agree the passage says son will be subject? This is the first post I have commented on it. I agree it says it and I agree with Paul. I don't know why you think it has anything to do with a change in the mediator role, since the reason God will be able t be all in all is because of the mediator.
        Pretty sure you outlined your view on the nature of the Incarnation in Post 1084. Second there was no mediator between God & Adam in the garden of Eve and there will be none in the future when God dwells with man. Jesus will not be the mediator he will Just be God go read your own claims. Especially this one

        Quote Noeb: "God cannot be high priest to himself."

        Comment


        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

          Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
          JLU: the problem is that you seem to have taken your eyes off the objective. While God is, all in all, it still doesn't negate the role of Jesus Christ as (1) God - God is Triune remember? (2) Jesus will also continue to be a Mediator and Eternal High Priest. There is nothing in scripture that disqualifies him from these roles in perpetuity.
          I already sent you the passage man that establishs what I and others are trying to say. Before the Incarnation as the Son Jesus was Equal with God.

          Philippians 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,b 7but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,c being born in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

          Jesus did this to become the Mediator so that He could Rule on Earth as a MAN.

          After he's done ruling on Earth 1 Corthians 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

          Simple he Started off As Equal with God, and after his Duty (as the Son & Mediator) is complete he shall return to being Equal with God.

          My eyes on the ball. Disagree all you want Just don't claim no passage establishs the doctrine that the role of Mediator ends i'm saying it's right there written in black and white.

          Comment


          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

            Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
            Pretty sure you outlined your view on the nature of the Incarnation in Post 1084. Second there was no mediator between God & Adam in the garden of Eve and there will be none in the future when God dwells with man. Jesus will not be the mediator he will Just be God go read your own claims. Especially this one

            Quote Noeb: "God cannot be high priest to himself."
            Incarnation? What does that have to do with my question? My comments in #1084 were a result of all your unbiblical claims in post #1077. What does what Jesus will be have to do with who he is?

            Comment


            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

              Originally posted by Noeb View Post
              Incarnation? What does that have to do with my question? My comments in #1084 were a result of all your unbiblical claims in post #1077. What does what Jesus will be have to do with who he is?
              You deny the Hypostatic Union of Christ, and here you are claiming that it's "unbiblical". This just shows that our views can't be reconciled, so this topic is pointless I'm done. I've said my peace just want to move on, without you trying to dredge it up more with claims about stuff not being in scripture or what is or is not "biblical". I believe 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 proves that the role of Mediator ends, you disagree let's leave it there.

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              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                You deny the Hypostatic Union of Christ
                I have not.


                Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                and here you are claiming that it's "unbiblical"
                Where did I do that?


                Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                This just shows that our views can't be reconciled, so this topic is pointless I'm done.
                You're done because your view isn't biblical. God became flesh, it doesn't say that will change, and it doesn't say he is high priest temporarily.


                Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                I've said my peace just want to move on, without you trying to dredge it up more with claims about stuff not being in scripture or what is or is not "biblical". I believe 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 proves that the role of Mediator ends, you disagree let's leave it there.
                Where did I say the role of Mediator doesn't end?

                Comment


                • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                  Why won't you answer the question? What does "the son will be subject to" have to do with his past, present, and continued role as mediator and the everlasting implications of that role?

                  Comment


                  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                    Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                    I already sent you the passage man that establishs what I and others are trying to say. Before the Incarnation as the Son Jesus was Equal with God.

                    Philippians 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,b 7but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,c being born in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

                    Jesus did this to become the Mediator so that He could Rule on Earth as a MAN.

                    After he's done ruling on Earth 1 Corthians 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

                    Simple he Started off As Equal with God, and after his Duty (as the Son & Mediator) is complete he shall return to being Equal with God.

                    My eyes on the ball. Disagree all you want Just don't claim no passage establishs the doctrine that the role of Mediator ends i'm saying it's right there written in black and white.
                    So you think subject to means not equal? Why?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                      Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                      I have not. Where did I do that?
                      You did it in post 1084 you claimed Jesus was just a man who was given "the spirit without measure" you said you could list 50 other examples why he was not God ect.




                      Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                      You're done because your view isn't biblical.
                      However you want to rationalize it, to me, it just seems like you want to keep attacking me so i continue this fruitless discussion, you will not allow me to leave amicably.

                      Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                      God became flesh, it doesn't say that will change, and it doesn't say he is high priest temporarily.
                      OK, you believe God will remain flesh forever, believe whatever you want I see no reason to change your view.




                      Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                      Where did I say the role of Mediator doesn't end?
                      Sure, you never claimed the role of Mediator doesn't end...........


                      Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                      Why won't you answer the question? What does "the son will be subject to" have to do with his past, present, and continued role as mediator and the everlasting implications of that role?
                      Because answering your question won't end this discussion it will just lead to more attacks and questions from you about my beliefs, overall it's a waste of my time, I'm done believe whatever you wish. God bless.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                        Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                        So you think subject to means not equal? Why?
                        This is a misquote and literally the opposite of what I said, which is fine. It was directed at Trivalee so hopefully he doesn't draw this same incorrect conclusion as you did from what I said and we wrap up this sidebar topic promptly.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                          Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                          You did it in post 1084 you claimed Jesus was just a man who was given "the spirit without measure"
                          I did not he was just a man, I said,
                          "God became a man who was given the Spirit w/o measure."
                          What is not true about that statement?


                          Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                          you said you could list 50 other examples why he was not God ect.
                          I did not say Jesus was not God. Everyone here knows I believe he was, which is why this wasn't moved to contro. I said,
                          "Also, I've always found the 100% God/100% Human claim absurd. That's 200% and any one thing can only be 100%. God doesn't need to do a lot of things that Jesus had to do, so no, clearly not 100% God. God cannot be tempted, but Jesus could. Clearly not 100% God. We could list 50 more, but you get the idea."
                          The point is the Jesus was 100%. Since he was a man with human limitation, the 100% entity could not be 100% God. Jesus maintained attributes of God in human form with natural limitations. God doesn't need to eat, can't die, etc....on and on....Most people prefer to throw their hands up and say "I don't know, it's a mystery", I prefer to accept it for what it is. Again, 100% God doesn't need to be given the Spirit w/o measure. The one who says he was 100% God who to be given the Spirit w/o measure is the one with a problem.


                          Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                          However you want to rationalize it, to me, it just seems like you want to keep attacking me
                          I have not attacked you.


                          Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                          OK, you believe God will remain flesh forever
                          The resurrected glorified Lord said he had flesh and bone. Do you believe him?


                          Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                          Sure, you never claimed the role of Mediator doesn't end...........
                          Yes, as stated several times.


                          Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                          Because answering your question won't end this discussion
                          It would, because you would have to accept the fact that just as a judge is a judge when not judging a high priest is still high priest when not in the temple performing his duties as high priest. He just had to do it once. The result is eternal. High priest forever, right? Now you keep claim I don't believe things I have never said I don't believe, but here we have you outright denying that Jesus is high priest forever, as scripture states very plainly. What are you going to do with this?

                          Comment


                          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                            Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                            This is a misquote and literally the opposite of what I said
                            Impossible.

                            Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                            Before the Incarnation as the Son Jesus was Equal with God.
                            So after the incarnation he wasn't? Because he became subject to?


                            Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                            Philippians 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,b 7but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,c being born in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

                            Jesus did this to become the Mediator so that He could Rule on Earth as a MAN.

                            After he's done ruling on Earth 1 Corthians 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

                            Simple he Started off As Equal with God, and after his Duty (as the Son & Mediator) is complete he shall return to being Equal with God.
                            and after he stops being a man, or more astoundingly, the Son (you really said that?) and is no longer subject to, he will become equal again?

                            It is exactly what you said. Why is he not equal now? Why was he not equal when he was here? How do you believe he was God but was not equal? Has the table turned?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                              Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                              I did not he was just a man, I said,
                              "God became a man who was given the Spirit w/o measure."
                              What is not true about that statement?




                              I did not say Jesus was not God. Everyone here knows I believe he was, which is why this wasn't moved to contro. I said,
                              "Also, I've always found the 100% God/100% Human claim absurd. That's 200% and any one thing can only be 100%. God doesn't need to do a lot of things that Jesus had to do, so no, clearly not 100% God. God cannot be tempted, but Jesus could. Clearly not 100% God. We could list 50 more, but you get the idea."
                              The point is the Jesus was 100%. Since he was a man with human limitation, the 100% entity could not be 100% God. Jesus maintained attributes of God in human form with natural limitations. God doesn't need to eat, can't die, etc....on and on....Most people prefer to throw their hands up and say "I don't know, it's a mystery", I prefer to accept it for what it is. Again, 100% God doesn't need to be given the Spirit w/o measure. The one who says he was 100% God who to be given the Spirit w/o measure is the one with a problem.
                              So how is this not a denial of the Hypostatic Union? As you said once more clearly you do not believe Jesus was 100% God.


                              Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                              The resurrected glorified Lord said he had flesh and bone. Do you believe him?
                              I believe He wasn't always flesh and bone.


                              Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                              Yes, as stated several times.
                              Once more you believe the role of Mediator Does end? Correct?



                              Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                              It would, because you would have to accept the fact that just as a judge is a judge when not judging a high priest is still high priest when not in the temple performing his duties as high priest. He just had to do it once. The result is eternal. High priest forever, right? Now you keep claim I don't believe things I have never said I don't believe, but here we have you outright denying that Jesus is high priest forever, as scripture states very plainly. What are you going to do with this?
                              I never claimed Jesus wasn't high priest forever I already claimed the opposite. So who is the one claiming the other beliefs are things that were never stated, I believe and have even stated explicitly the opposite. I just said that his role as the mediator does end and said that his role as High Priest was forever. If you honestly accepted the Hypostatic Union then we can have a debate from what I'm seeing from your statements you don't believe it is true so I'd rather just leave this discussion for someone who shares the same basic understanding of the nature of the incarnation as I do.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                                Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                                Impossible.
                                Honestly your quote of what I said was the exact opposite of the point I was trying to make

                                Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                                So after the incarnation he wasn't? Because he became subject to?
                                Yes the "Son" becomes subject to the Father and God is All in ALL. Whatever Jesus was before the incarnation he was equal to God, this all changed when he became the Son. Whatever he was before he became the Son he returns to that.


                                Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                                and after he stops being a man, or more astoundingly, the Son (you really said that?) and is no longer subject to, he will become equal again?
                                Yes after he stops being the Son(Human) he will be Equal once more with God.

                                Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                                It is exactly what you said. Why is he not equal now? Why was he not equal when he was here? How do you believe he was God but was not equal? Has the table turned?
                                I didn't say it, Jesus himself said it. If you have questions ask him when you see him see John 14:28. By Jesus own admission the father was Greater then he was. See what i mean this is just an endless rabbit hole, I'd prefer if you want to speak about this topic create a thread.

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