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  • #46
    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Hi randyk,

    You wrote:

    "What I'd like to say initially, however, is that Jesus walked in the Spirit before he "received the promised Holy Spirit." And prophets in the OT also "spoke by the Spirit of God." So the Baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be a special anointing upon the Church to preach the Gospel, just as the prophets of old received the power of the Holy Spirit to proclaim the word of God to their own generation."

    I'm not going to explain nor prove why here but I believe you would be correct in saying the Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit. Like you alluded to, the question is when. You said "Do you have an explanation as to why God the Father gave Jesus the "promised Holy Spirit" after he had been "exalted to the right hand of God?"" Is there any other possibility than "after?" As the Spirit leads, consider Acts 2, verses 30-32. Verse 33 summarizes the prior three verses. Those three verses reveal when Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit. It's interesting to note that the three verses repeats a general theme three times, trying to tell us something very important . We all know how prevalent the number three is in Scripture. Also ponder on the word "promise" and its implications - because earlier, the Spirit of God descended like a dove on Jesus. Mt 3:16

    Hopefully this will help set you on the right path. Don't let false dilemmas deter you as the Pharisees tried to do with their questions to Jesus. I'd encourage you to keep searching for the answers you seek, it's a part of enduring. Lk 21:19 Remember that Jesus is our map. Eph 4:21 It stands to reason that in order to gain what Jesus gained, we have to follow that map. Jn 14:6, Eph 2:18 Revelation of this spiritual concept is crucial to understanding Jesus receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit.

    Blessings

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

      Originally posted by Placed_Son View Post
      Hi randyk,

      You wrote:

      "What I'd like to say initially, however, is that Jesus walked in the Spirit before he "received the promised Holy Spirit." And prophets in the OT also "spoke by the Spirit of God." So the Baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be a special anointing upon the Church to preach the Gospel, just as the prophets of old received the power of the Holy Spirit to proclaim the word of God to their own generation."

      I'm not going to explain nor prove why here but I believe you would be correct in saying the Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit. Like you alluded to, the question is when. You said "Do you have an explanation as to why God the Father gave Jesus the "promised Holy Spirit" after he had been "exalted to the right hand of God?"" Is there any other possibility than "after?" As the Spirit leads, consider Acts 2, verses 30-32. Verse 33 summarizes the prior three verses. Those three verses reveal when Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit. It's interesting to note that the three verses repeats a general theme three times, trying to tell us something very important . We all know how prevalent the number three is in Scripture. Also ponder on the word "promise" and its implications - because earlier, the Spirit of God descended like a dove on Jesus. Mt 3:16

      Hopefully this will help set you on the right path. Don't let false dilemmas deter you as the Pharisees tried to do with their questions to Jesus. I'd encourage you to keep searching for the answers you seek, it's a part of enduring. Lk 21:19 Remember that Jesus is our map. Eph 4:21 It stands to reason that in order to gain what Jesus gained, we have to follow that map. Jn 14:6, Eph 2:18 Revelation of this spiritual concept is crucial to understanding Jesus receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit.

      Blessings
      I agree that the prior verses help focus the subject, that Jesus was the Messiah, that he was to reign on the throne of David, and that he therefore rose from the dead and was seated on high. But you leave me wondering how you yourself interpret this? For example, do you see Jesus' ascension as his taking the throne of David at that moment? Or do you see the throne of David as something to take place in the Millennium? It is not clear to me what you're suggesting, if anything?

      And how does the promise of the Spirit relate to the above? You aren't really giving anything more than suggesting I look at a broader context. What is your view?

      My view is unclear, but I believe Jesus will take the throne of David at his 2nd Coming, at the beginning of the Millennium. He does not yet reign. He is presently subduing his enemies, who are all those who resist his coming Kingdom.

      I believe Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father in order to relay that Spirit to us, who have embraced him as Savior and Lord. The Spirit confirms our salvation, as well as anoint us ambassadors for him in ministry. We are all called to represent him before the world.

      The Spirit, in the present age, is a down payment on our ultimate inheritance of the Kingdom of God. It was a certification to Jesus that he and his people would come to reign on earth during the Millennium and forever. But the reign only begins at his 2nd Coming. Until then, we have received the Spirit from Jesus as a down payment on this inheritance.

      Until we are glorified we will not be fully qualified to reign on earth. We have authority now, but are not yet reigning. Jesus was, I believe, glorified when he ascended on high, and thus was qualified not just to receive the Spirit, but also to give us the inheritance, along with its deposit, the Holy Spirit.

      That's why Jesus had to ascend on high to give us the Holy Spirit, so that he would 1st be glorified, in order to be qualified on our behalf to give us the Holy Spirit as a deposit. To give us eternal life, Jesus had to not just rise from the dead, but he also had to be given authority over the universe to disperse his gift of life and authority to everyone who meets his conditions.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

        Originally posted by randyk View Post
        I agree that the prior verses help focus the subject, that Jesus was the Messiah, that he was to reign on the throne of David, and that he therefore rose from the dead and was seated on high. But you leave me wondering how you yourself interpret this? For example, do you see Jesus' ascension as his taking the throne of David at that moment? Or do you see the throne of David as something to take place in the Millennium? It is not clear to me what you're suggesting, if anything?

        And how does the promise of the Spirit relate to the above? You aren't really giving anything more than suggesting I look at a broader context. What is your view?

        My view is unclear, but I believe Jesus will take the throne of David at his 2nd Coming, at the beginning of the Millennium. He does not yet reign. He is presently subduing his enemies, who are all those who resist his coming Kingdom.

        I believe Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father in order to relay that Spirit to us, who have embraced him as Savior and Lord. The Spirit confirms our salvation, as well as anoint us ambassadors for him in ministry. We are all called to represent him before the world.

        The Spirit, in the present age, is a down payment on our ultimate inheritance of the Kingdom of God. It was a certification to Jesus that he and his people would come to reign on earth during the Millennium and forever. But the reign only begins at his 2nd Coming. Until then, we have received the Spirit from Jesus as a down payment on this inheritance.

        Until we are glorified we will not be fully qualified to reign on earth. We have authority now, but are not yet reigning. Jesus was, I believe, glorified when he ascended on high, and thus was qualified not just to receive the Spirit, but also to give us the inheritance, along with its deposit, the Holy Spirit.

        That's why Jesus had to ascend on high to give us the Holy Spirit, so that he would 1st be glorified, in order to be qualified on our behalf to give us the Holy Spirit as a deposit. To give us eternal life, Jesus had to not just rise from the dead, but he also had to be given authority over the universe to disperse his gift of life and authority to everyone who meets his conditions.

        I am familiar with the teachings and concepts you mention. But would like to interject some dialog.

        When Jesus time was at hand, he was made a natural king of the Jews, the Children of Israel who believed that he was the son of God.

        The ones of Israel who rejected Jesus, were those who did not accept him as Messiah. Even today, many do not accept Jesus as Christ.

        But Jesus was made a real king on earth while he lived and did take on the throne of David. His kingdom is not of this world nor in a house made of man.

        Matthew 21:7
        "And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon."

        But he does reign now and is alive on the right hand of God in all power and authority.
        Romans 5:
        17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
        18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


        This is the same mindset of Abraham, a pilgrim and stranger in a strange land, who was looking for a city not made with hands, whose builder and maker is God. This is the kingdom of God and not a kingdom that is yet to come in the millennium.

        Hebrews 11:16
        "But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

        When Jesus was in the temple, he was Lord of the temple in Jerusalem. He demanded order as he drove out the money changers, stating they had turned God’s house into a den of thieves. The elders asked him by what authority he did those things and they asked for a sign. Jesus provided proof of his authority that he was Lord of the temple by his death and resurrection on the cross. This is the proof that he was Lord on earth as king and was Lord of the temple. He was in full power and authority and took on the throne of David.

        John 2:
        14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
        15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
        16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
        17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
        18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
        19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

        Jesus went away to prepare a place. When he returns, he is coming to take his bride home, not to establish some other kingdom or to take on some other throne. All of this is already done.

        It is done and his work was finished when He died on the cross.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

          Originally posted by Placed_Son View Post
          Hi randyk,

          You wrote:

          "What I'd like to say initially, however, is that Jesus walked in the Spirit before he "received the promised Holy Spirit." And prophets in the OT also "spoke by the Spirit of God." So the Baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be a special anointing upon the Church to preach the Gospel, just as the prophets of old received the power of the Holy Spirit to proclaim the word of God to their own generation."

          I'm not going to explain nor prove why here but I believe you would be correct in saying the Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit. Like you alluded to, the question is when. You said "Do you have an explanation as to why God the Father gave Jesus the "promised Holy Spirit" after he had been "exalted to the right hand of God?"" Is there any other possibility than "after?" As the Spirit leads, consider Acts 2, verses 30-32. Verse 33 summarizes the prior three verses. Those three verses reveal when Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit. It's interesting to note that the three verses repeats a general theme three times, trying to tell us something very important . We all know how prevalent the number three is in Scripture. Also ponder on the word "promise" and its implications - because earlier, the Spirit of God descended like a dove on Jesus. Mt 3:16

          Hopefully this will help set you on the right path. Don't let false dilemmas deter you as the Pharisees tried to do with their questions to Jesus. I'd encourage you to keep searching for the answers you seek, it's a part of enduring. Lk 21:19 Remember that Jesus is our map. Eph 4:21 It stands to reason that in order to gain what Jesus gained, we have to follow that map. Jn 14:6, Eph 2:18 Revelation of this spiritual concept is crucial to understanding Jesus receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit.

          Blessings
          ? Three ? as in Numbers 19:12 = Titus 3:5

          Originally posted by Placed_Son View Post
          Hi randyk,

          You wrote:

          "What I'd like to say initially, however, is that Jesus walked in the Spirit before he "received the promised Holy Spirit." And prophets in the OT also "spoke by the Spirit of God." So the Baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be a special anointing upon the Church to preach the Gospel, just as the prophets of old received the power of the Holy Spirit to proclaim the word of God to their own generation."

          I'm not going to explain nor prove why here but I believe you would be correct in saying the Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit. Like you alluded to, the question is when. You said "Do you have an explanation as to why God the Father gave Jesus the "promised Holy Spirit" after he had been "exalted to the right hand of God?"" Is there any other possibility than "after?" As the Spirit leads, consider Acts 2, verses 30-32. Verse 33 summarizes the prior three verses. Those three verses reveal when Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit. It's interesting to note that the three verses repeats a general theme three times, trying to tell us something very important . We all know how prevalent the number three is in Scripture. Also ponder on the word "promise" and its implications - because earlier, the Spirit of God descended like a dove on Jesus. Mt 3:16

          Hopefully this will help set you on the right path. Don't let false dilemmas deter you as the Pharisees tried to do with their questions to Jesus. I'd encourage you to keep searching for the answers you seek, it's a part of enduring. Lk 21:19 Remember that Jesus is our map. Eph 4:21 It stands to reason that in order to gain what Jesus gained, we have to follow that map. Jn 14:6, Eph 2:18 Revelation of this spiritual concept is crucial to understanding Jesus receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit.

          Blessings
          ? Three ? as in Numbers 19:12 = Titus 3:5

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

            Originally posted by TMarcum View Post
            I am familiar with the teachings and concepts you mention. But would like to interject some dialog.

            When Jesus time was at hand, he was made a natural king of the Jews, the Children of Israel who believed that he was the son of God.

            The ones of Israel who rejected Jesus, were those who did not accept him as Messiah. Even today, many do not accept Jesus as Christ.

            But Jesus was made a real king on earth while he lived and did take on the throne of David. His kingdom is not of this world nor in a house made of man.

            Matthew 21:7
            "And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon."

            But he does reign now and is alive on the right hand of God in all power and authority.
            Romans 5:
            17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
            18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


            This is the same mindset of Abraham, a pilgrim and stranger in a strange land, who was looking for a city not made with hands, whose builder and maker is God. This is the kingdom of God and not a kingdom that is yet to come in the millennium.

            Hebrews 11:16
            "But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

            When Jesus was in the temple, he was Lord of the temple in Jerusalem. He demanded order as he drove out the money changers, stating they had turned God’s house into a den of thieves. The elders asked him by what authority he did those things and they asked for a sign. Jesus provided proof of his authority that he was Lord of the temple by his death and resurrection on the cross. This is the proof that he was Lord on earth as king and was Lord of the temple. He was in full power and authority and took on the throne of David.

            John 2:
            14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
            15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
            16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
            17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
            18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
            19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

            Jesus went away to prepare a place. When he returns, he is coming to take his bride home, not to establish some other kingdom or to take on some other throne. All of this is already done.

            It is done and his work was finished when He died on the cross.
            My belief is that the Kingdom of God is presently in heaven, but nearby the earth. In other words, it is within distance of man so that believers can exercise the right to be saved and the authority to declare the gospel with power. What this means is that we can proclaim salvation to others so that they really get saved. Those we condemn are really condemned when we are declaring the word of God in truth.

            Jesus did not obtain the throne of David while he was on earth, even though he was God and had authority to display his deity in a variety of ways. He walked on the water. He healed. He raised people from the dead.

            However, the Kingdom comes to earth when judgment comes to Israel and to the world, preparing for the restoration of Israel and the reconstitution of the state of Israel under Christian control. This has not happened yet.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

              The kingdom of God is spiritual. Is neither here nor there. Does not manifest in an observable way. Jesus said the following to Pharisees before the cross.

              Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
              Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

              It has always been and always will be. The level at which this is true will change based on our ability to "see" but.....

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

                Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                The kingdom of God is spiritual. Is neither here nor there. Does not manifest in an observable way. Jesus said the following to Pharisees before the cross.

                Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
                Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

                It has always been and always will be. The level at which this is true will change based on our ability to "see" but.....
                I agree totally.

                One thing that concerns me regarding the beliefs that Christ is coming back to establish a physical kingdom of David in Jerusalem is this: The bible speaks in several places regarding the son of perdition when he comes to power. Jesus warned against him as well as apostle Paul. This man will stand in the holy place. He will portraying himself to be Christ. Many will follow after him and be deceived.

                Jesus said to believe it not when they say Christ is here or there.

                This is when the end will be and what the signs of his coming will be: Immediately after the tribulation of those days, to look for the signs of the coming of the Lord. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

                With Jesus (in Matthew 24) telling us directly what to expect, why then would any believe Christ is coming to earth to literally set upon the throne of David. He gave us a direct warning already.

                What more do we need, a huge sign to be lowered out of the sky pointing at the deceiver, the son of perdition?

                Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                The kingdom of God is spiritual. Is neither here nor there. Does not manifest in an observable way. Jesus said the following to Pharisees before the cross.

                Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
                Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

                It has always been and always will be. The level at which this is true will change based on our ability to "see" but.....
                I agree totally.

                One thing that concerns me regarding the beliefs that Christ is coming back to establish a physical kingdom of David in Jerusalem is this: The bible speaks in several places regarding the son of perdition when he comes to power. Jesus warned against him as well as apostle Paul. This man will stand in the holy place. He will portraying himself to be Christ. Many will follow after him and be deceived.

                Jesus said to believe it not when they say Christ is here or there.

                This is when the end will be and what the signs of his coming will be: Immediately after the tribulation of those days, to look for the signs of the coming of the Lord. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

                With Jesus (in Matthew 24) telling us directly what to expect, why then would any believe Christ is coming to earth to literally set upon the throne of David. He gave us a direct warning already.

                What more do we need, a huge sign to be lowered out of the sky pointing at the deceiver, the son of perdition?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

                  Originally posted by TMarcum View Post
                  I agree totally.
                  I can't wait to rule and reign with Jesus in the millennial kingdom.

                  Revelation 20:4

                  Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
                  “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
                  that we may observe all the words of this law."
                  Deuteronomy 29:29

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

                    Originally posted by TMarcum View Post
                    I agree totally.

                    One thing that concerns me regarding the beliefs that Christ is coming back to establish a physical kingdom of David in Jerusalem is this: The bible speaks in several places regarding the son of perdition when he comes to power. Jesus warned against him as well as apostle Paul. This man will stand in the holy place. He will portraying himself to be Christ. Many will follow after him and be deceived.

                    Jesus said to believe it not when they say Christ is here or there.

                    This is when the end will be and what the signs of his coming will be: Immediately after the tribulation of those days, to look for the signs of the coming of the Lord. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

                    With Jesus (in Matthew 24) telling us directly what to expect, why then would any believe Christ is coming to earth to literally set upon the throne of David. He gave us a direct warning already.

                    What more do we need, a huge sign to be lowered out of the sky pointing at the deceiver, the son of perdition?
                    Jesus' point was not that there wouldn't be an earthly reign, but that Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

                    He said over and over....signs....but the end is not yet. Signs....but the end is not yet. Why people look for signs I do not know. When it happens....here's your sign/you'll know. You said, "he is coming to take his bride home, not to establish some other kingdom or to take on some other throne. All of this is already done." but he is not taking us anywhere. We meet him in the air and return with him here, where will remain with him forever.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

                      Originally posted by TMarcum View Post
                      I agree totally.

                      One thing that concerns me regarding the beliefs that Christ is coming back to establish a physical kingdom of David in Jerusalem is this: The bible speaks in several places regarding the son of perdition when he comes to power. Jesus warned against him as well as apostle Paul. This man will stand in the holy place. He will portraying himself to be Christ. Many will follow after him and be deceived.

                      Jesus said to believe it not when they say Christ is here or there.

                      This is when the end will be and what the signs of his coming will be: Immediately after the tribulation of those days, to look for the signs of the coming of the Lord. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

                      With Jesus (in Matthew 24) telling us directly what to expect, why then would any believe Christ is coming to earth to literally set upon the throne of David. He gave us a direct warning already.

                      What more do we need, a huge sign to be lowered out of the sky pointing at the deceiver, the son of perdition?
                      It helps if we do not confuse the kingdom of God with the kingdom of heaven.


                      Luk 17:20* And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:*
                      Luk 17:21* Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.*
                      Luk 17:22* And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.*
                      Luk 17:23* And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.*
                      Luk 17:24* For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.*
                      Luk 17:25* But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.*


                      The spiritual kingdom within you is not the days of the Son of man (Messiah). Jesus stated the Pharisees could not believe because they did not have God's word and love in them
                      but he also said they have the ability to believe within them. The kingdom of God is within you (ability) Pharisees but because you will not believe you will not see/enter the kingdom of heaven/days of the Messiah.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

                        Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                        It helps if we do not confuse the kingdom of God with the kingdom of heaven.
                        Noeb, hello.

                        While I follow your statements in this post, I am not following the difference between the two terms, at all. I wonder if you might demonstrate with Scripture the difference. When I compare how the two terms are used I see no difference.
                        “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
                        that we may observe all the words of this law."
                        Deuteronomy 29:29

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

                          Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
                          I can't wait to rule and reign with Jesus in the millennial kingdom.

                          Revelation 20:4

                          Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

                          Most importantly, let's treasure the rule and reign we have with Jesus now. Today is the day of salvation. There is no hope after the grave. In John's vision, he saw the state of the souls of those that had died. The other (2) verses are just as important to give the true meaning of this mystery.

                          Revelation 20:
                          5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
                          6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

                          What John saw was the souls of those that were beheaded and martyred for their faith in him. These were souls of those who died and were still awaiting the resurrection of their bodies. Which will come after the millennial reign. This is the 1st resurrection which is after the reign. When you die, then your soul will reign with him too (if you die in the triumphs of the faith). But consider, the rest of the dead lived not again until after the millennial (these were sinners who died). So this gives no hope for the sinner that dies without Christ in their lives. They will have part in the 2nd death.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

                            Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                            The kingdom of God is spiritual. Is neither here nor there. Does not manifest in an observable way. Jesus said the following to Pharisees before the cross.

                            Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
                            Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

                            It has always been and always will be. The level at which this is true will change based on our ability to "see" but.....
                            I agree that the Kingdom of God has always been. But it's only on earth when men cooperate to reign in the name of God on earth. When Israel failed in their bid to establish God's Kingdom within their own kingdom, then the Kingdom of God ceased to exist on earth.

                            It remained, however, in heaven, because God's reign can never end. It's just that God's ultimate intention is for man to establish His Kingdom on the earth, since He gave us rule over the earth.

                            After Israel failed to rule in the name of God, other nations were given the chance to do the same. Indeed, there have been many nations who have adopted Christianity and have established kingdoms in the name of God.

                            But they, like Israel, tend to fade away. Corruption sets in, and the faithful are marginalized. Only remnants of faithful Christians remain. And this is not the Kingdom of God on earth that God wanted. He wants entire nations to rule in His name, and not just small minorities among the nations.

                            And so, Christ will come again, at the proper time, to establish His Kingdom on earth. The nations rising up to oppose Him will be defeated, and judged. And Christianity will be reestablished in Israel and in many other nations, as I understand it.

                            When Jesus said the Kingdom of God is not "observable," he was talking about the visibility of the Kingdom *at present.* It is not visible because the nation and the government of Israel had failed to establish a visible Kingdom of God in their nation.

                            But in the future I do believe this will change, and entire nations will subscribe to Christianity and maintain that spirituality for a longer period of time. This will be visible evidence of the Kingdom which at present barely exists.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

                              Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
                              Noeb, hello.

                              While I follow your statements in this post, I am not following the difference between the two terms, at all. I wonder if you might demonstrate with Scripture the difference. When I compare how the two terms are used I see no difference.
                              Nice to see you again bro!

                              Like I said,

                              "The kingdom of God is within you (ability) Pharisees but because you will not believe you will not see/enter the kingdom of heaven/days of the Messiah."

                              Luk 17:20-22
                              -the koG doesn't come with observation
                              -will not see the kingdom

                              For lack of better words.....because you Pharisees won't see the spiritual kingdom, you will not enter the natural kingdom.

                              But I just recently went thru this in another thread. Feel free to read my opinions there.
                              https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...05#post3491205

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                              • #60
                                Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

                                Originally posted by randyk View Post
                                I agree that the Kingdom of God has always been. But it's only on earth when men cooperate to reign in the name of God on earth. When Israel failed in their bid to establish God's Kingdom within their own kingdom, then the Kingdom of God ceased to exist on earth.

                                It remained, however, in heaven, because God's reign can never end. It's just that God's ultimate intention is for man to establish His Kingdom on the earth, since He gave us rule over the earth.

                                After Israel failed to rule in the name of God, other nations were given the chance to do the same. Indeed, there have been many nations who have adopted Christianity and have established kingdoms in the name of God.

                                But they, like Israel, tend to fade away. Corruption sets in, and the faithful are marginalized. Only remnants of faithful Christians remain. And this is not the Kingdom of God on earth that God wanted. He wants entire nations to rule in His name, and not just small minorities among the nations.

                                And so, Christ will come again, at the proper time, to establish His Kingdom on earth. The nations rising up to oppose Him will be defeated, and judged. And Christianity will be reestablished in Israel and in many other nations, as I understand it.

                                When Jesus said the Kingdom of God is not "observable," he was talking about the visibility of the Kingdom *at present.* It is not visible because the nation and the government of Israel had failed to establish a visible Kingdom of God in their nation.

                                But in the future I do believe this will change, and entire nations will subscribe to Christianity and maintain that spirituality for a longer period of time. This will be visible evidence of the Kingdom which at present barely exists.
                                In short, and for lack off better words, I believe the koG is the spirit realm. So I don't see a time when it ceased to exist on earth. Even when Israel failed God was active in the lives of men and the kingdoms of this world, bringing about his will. No man could resist his will to bring Christ.

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