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  • #16
    Re: Faith OF Jesus Christ vs. faith IN Jesus Christ

    Originally posted by Walls View Post
    I am not sure what your point is. Although the term "obedience of, or to, the faith" appears twice, I do not think that this is the question posed in the OP. The question posed in the OP is, which is true?
    1. We have faith IN something. This implies that we own faith as an intrinsic attribute and may use it, or not use it, according to our will
    2. We exercise the faith OF somebody. This implies that we are destitute of faith and that Somebody else's faith is given to us to exercise.

    My proofs showed that point #2 is true. Man does not possess intrinsic faith in God. It has to be GIVEN. It is the "faith OF (belonging to) Christ". Once we have been given faith by the "author and finisher" of our faith, we can then decide to exercise it to (i) effect salvation, and (ii) please God. My example was that though Eve was still perfect and complete, without the effects of the fall, she did not believe what God said to her.

    there's no way around the fact that we are bound to the gospel ministry of Jesus Christ. When you are determining a difference between " in and of" it's a flawed beginning


    "Βίβλος γενέσεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ υἱοῦ Δαυὶδ υἱοῦ Ἀβραάμ"

    "book genealogy Jesus Christ son david son Abraham "

    this is how Matthew 1:1 translates word by word of you try to go from Greek, to English without converting the alphabet. And understanding the message is what's being translated. If an English speaking person heard the Greek it would make no sense, or a Vietnamese speaking person heard the English or the Greek, it would make no sense....it's a good thing we have a God who is able to get his word to all people of all languages.

    Now, Translated to English, given the linguistic differences between Ancient Greek and modern English. And how speech has evolved from them to us.

    Matthew 1:1

    " (the )book (of the ) genealogy (of ) Jesus Christ, (the )son (of )David, (the )son ( of )Abraham"

    note the differences . We don't speak the same way they did , but we can communicate the exact same message.


    it's important not to base things on the Greek or Hebrew unless one understands the languages and translation process between the two. Word order, and the context is not the same sometimes nearly unrecognizable. The phrasing , the meanings of certain words ect....it's different.

    This is what I meant about if you try to translate each word and expect it to be the same word for word. We have to at some point just believe what's there rather than doubting translations of what's the difference in " faith of, or faith in" there is no difference factually if a person accepts and believes the gospel, they will be saved. But if one rejects the gospel, they will face the judgement upon the world.

    understanding the alphabetics between two languages , needs to first be understood that it is the message that is translated not each word because language has changed greatly. This is why I trust the kjv translation most, because in the times it was translated, languages mattered much more, were much more a point of study, much more understood.

    the methods they took through 50 plus translators separated into groups, working individually, then coming together again, comparing the translations , again and again until it was accurate to the experts employed in this task. King James had the best available to him, and the method used was as close to fool proof as possible.

    so when we try to decide important doctrine on the difference between " in or of" it's a very flawed idea. Because the meaning is actually " faith concerning, or faith about, or faith in, or faith of" or other terms which were decided by the translatory process. It's the message conveyed that matters, all of the chapters, all of the letters written to the church' have the understanding and it's not over ruled by " the faith of" or " faith in" or even a term like " Grace" that doesn't eliminate the gospel and the requirements made clear by Jesus Christ.

    we're not meant to accept the things we want to and reject the rest as Old Testament , or say " we need to look through a grace lense " which means you need to do nothing and your saved anyways. We're supposed to believe the gospel that's not a heavy load to bear as was the mosaic law. When we need corrections it's in the gospel, when we need forgiveness it's in the gospel, we need assurance of salvation it's in the gospel, we need warning, and fear that leads to repentance ....it's in the gospel


    salvation comes by grace, through faith. Faith comes to us through the word of Jesus Christ.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Faith OF Jesus Christ vs. faith IN Jesus Christ

      Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
      there's no way around the fact that we are bound to the gospel ministry of Jesus Christ. When you are determining a difference between " in and of" it's a flawed beginning


      "Βίβλος γενέσεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ υἱοῦ Δαυὶδ υἱοῦ Ἀβραάμ"

      "book genealogy Jesus Christ son david son Abraham "

      this is how Matthew 1:1 translates word by word of you try to go from Greek, to English without converting the alphabet. And understanding the message is what's being translated. If an English speaking person heard the Greek it would make no sense, or a Vietnamese speaking person heard the English or the Greek, it would make no sense....it's a good thing we have a God who is able to get his word to all people of all languages.

      Now, Translated to English, given the linguistic differences between Ancient Greek and modern English. And how speech has evolved from them to us.

      Matthew 1:1

      " (the )book (of the ) genealogy (of ) Jesus Christ, (the )son (of )David, (the )son ( of )Abraham"

      note the differences . We don't speak the same way they did , but we can communicate the exact same message.


      it's important not to base things on the Greek or Hebrew unless one understands the languages and translation process between the two. Word order, and the context is not the same sometimes nearly unrecognizable. The phrasing , the meanings of certain words ect....it's different.

      This is what I meant about if you try to translate each word and expect it to be the same word for word. We have to at some point just believe what's there rather than doubting translations of what's the difference in " faith of, or faith in" there is no difference factually if a person accepts and believes the gospel, they will be saved. But if one rejects the gospel, they will face the judgement upon the world.

      understanding the alphabetics between two languages , needs to first be understood that it is the message that is translated not each word because language has changed greatly. This is why I trust the kjv translation most, because in the times it was translated, languages mattered much more, were much more a point of study, much more understood.

      the methods they took through 50 plus translators separated into groups, working individually, then coming together again, comparing the translations , again and again until it was accurate to the experts employed in this task. King James had the best available to him, and the method used was as close to fool proof as possible.

      so when we try to decide important doctrine on the difference between " in or of" it's a very flawed idea. Because the meaning is actually " faith concerning, or faith about, or faith in, or faith of" or other terms which were decided by the translatory process. It's the message conveyed that matters, all of the chapters, all of the letters written to the church' have the understanding and it's not over ruled by " the faith of" or " faith in" or even a term like " Grace" that doesn't eliminate the gospel and the requirements made clear by Jesus Christ.

      we're not meant to accept the things we want to and reject the rest as Old Testament , or say " we need to look through a grace lense " which means you need to do nothing and your saved anyways. We're supposed to believe the gospel that's not a heavy load to bear as was the mosaic law. When we need corrections it's in the gospel, when we need forgiveness it's in the gospel, we need assurance of salvation it's in the gospel, we need warning, and fear that leads to repentance ....it's in the gospel


      salvation comes by grace, through faith. Faith comes to us through the word of Jesus Christ.
      Well, in the end, in your closing statement, we agreed. Faith comes from outside a man.

      But let me make clear that I share your view that the King James translators were the best team ever in the history of Bible translation, and they came up with "OF", as I showed in my first posting. Also, in English, there is a vast difference between "faith IN" and "faith OF". "Faith IN" means you already have faith and you apply it to an object. "Faith OF" means the faith is owned by someone outside of you and is given to you. Examples:
      1. I have faith in homeopathic remedies. That is, I exercise intrinsic faith.
      2. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" That is, the faith that saves "is NOT of myself", and the faith that saves is "a GIFT of God". In both cases I am devoid of faith needed to be saved, and this faith must be GIVEN.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Faith OF Jesus Christ vs. faith IN Jesus Christ

        Originally posted by mailmandan View Post
        Amen! Galatians 2:20 - I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
        Amen!



        and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? Jn.8:7,46

        He the One and only.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Faith OF Jesus Christ vs. faith IN Jesus Christ

          Originally posted by Walls View Post
          Well, in the end, in your closing statement, we agreed. Faith comes from outside a man.

          But let me make clear that I share your view that the King James translators were the best team ever in the history of Bible translation, and they came up with "OF", as I showed in my first posting. Also, in English, there is a vast difference between "faith IN" and "faith OF". "Faith IN" means you already have faith and you apply it to an object. "Faith OF" means the faith is owned by someone outside of you and is given to you. Examples:
          1. I have faith in homeopathic remedies. That is, I exercise intrinsic faith.
          2. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" That is, the faith that saves "is NOT of myself", and the faith that saves is "a GIFT of God". In both cases I am devoid of faith needed to be saved, and this faith must be GIVEN.

          nothing is of us. But there's only one place faith comes from that's here

          “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
          **Romans‬ *10:17‬ *KJV‬‬


          this is why we don't avoid the word and clam faith saves us, we have to accept Jesus and his word in order to have faith. And as we accept his word we grow in our capacity to operate in faith. All we have to do is believe in the one God sent, but it's really important we don't try to distinguish words like " of" and create a reason to avoid what he says. Or that we take one verse like " saved by grace through faith " and then eliminate all he instructs us to do, because faith does works, but we have to agree. Faith works in this wise

          “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
          **John‬ *6:29‬ *KJV‬‬


          as we persevere and hear him in whom we believe we cannot reject this

          “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
          **John‬ *5:24‬ *KJV‬‬


          as we persevere in his word in whom we believe we cannot reject

          “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
          **John‬ *8:31-32‬ *KJV‬‬


          as we continue in his word in whom we believe we cannot reject

          “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

          Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

          But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
          **Luke‬ *6:46-49‬ *KJV‬‬

          faith doesn't remain a tiny seed, it grows in us through and only through faith in Christ Jesus . We can't ever reject his word, that's faith that saves us. And as we persevere he brings us into obedience , by this faith we hold so dear. He is able to save those who accept his faith.

          there are a lot of verses saying " faith in" as well more actually. Simply put if we believe in Jesus , sincerely, we will hunger for his word and accept it even when requires of us, because eventually faith leads to works and grace teaches us this

          “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

          Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
          **Titus‬ *2:11-14‬ *KJV‬‬


          we simply are not saved in continuance of our sinful pasts, faith is to bring us out of that , and into the grace which does that for us, redeems us into those who aren't always expressing " don't work, just rest nothing to do,here, Jesus already did everything" ....into those zealous for good works ultimately

          “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”
          **1 John‬ *5:2-3‬ *KJV‬‬


          that's not talking about Moses commandments, but those of Christ. Where faith exists.

          Originally posted by Walls View Post
          Well, in the end, in your closing statement, we agreed. Faith comes from outside a man.

          But let me make clear that I share your view that the King James translators were the best team ever in the history of Bible translation, and they came up with "OF", as I showed in my first posting. Also, in English, there is a vast difference between "faith IN" and "faith OF". "Faith IN" means you already have faith and you apply it to an object. "Faith OF" means the faith is owned by someone outside of you and is given to you. Examples:
          1. I have faith in homeopathic remedies. That is, I exercise intrinsic faith.
          2. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" That is, the faith that saves "is NOT of myself", and the faith that saves is "a GIFT of God". In both cases I am devoid of faith needed to be saved, and this faith must be GIVEN.

          nothing is of us. But there's only one place faith comes from that's here

          “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
          **Romans‬ *10:17‬ *KJV‬‬


          this is why we don't avoid the word and clam faith saves us, we have to accept Jesus and his word in order to have faith. And as we accept his word we grow in our capacity to operate in faith. All we have to do is believe in the one God sent, but it's really important we don't try to distinguish words like " of" and create a reason to avoid what he says. Or that we take one verse like " saved by grace through faith " and then eliminate all he instructs us to do, because faith does works, but we have to agree. Faith works in this wise

          “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
          **John‬ *6:29‬ *KJV‬‬


          as we persevere and hear him in whom we believe we cannot reject this

          “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
          **John‬ *5:24‬ *KJV‬‬


          as we persevere in his word in whom we believe we cannot reject

          “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
          **John‬ *8:31-32‬ *KJV‬‬


          as we continue in his word in whom we believe we cannot reject

          “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

          Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

          But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
          **Luke‬ *6:46-49‬ *KJV‬‬

          faith doesn't remain a tiny seed, it grows in us through and only through faith in Christ Jesus . We can't ever reject his word, that's faith that saves us. And as we persevere he brings us into obedience , by this faith we hold so dear. He is able to save those who accept his faith.

          there are a lot of verses saying " faith in" as well more actually. Simply put if we believe in Jesus , sincerely, we will hunger for his word and accept it even when requires of us, because eventually faith leads to works and grace teaches us this

          “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

          Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
          **Titus‬ *2:11-14‬ *KJV‬‬


          we simply are not saved in continuance of our sinful pasts, faith is to bring us out of that , and into the grace which does that for us, redeems us into those who aren't always expressing " don't work, just rest nothing to do,here, Jesus already did everything" ....into those zealous for good works ultimately

          “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”
          **1 John‬ *5:2-3‬ *KJV‬‬


          that's not talking about Moses commandments, but those of Christ. Where faith exists.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Faith OF Jesus Christ vs. faith IN Jesus Christ

            Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
            nothing is of us. But there's only one place faith comes from that's here

            “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
            **Romans‬ *10:17‬ *KJV‬‬


            this is why we don't avoid the word and clam faith saves us, we have to accept Jesus and his word in order to have faith. And as we accept his word we grow in our capacity to operate in faith. All we have to do is believe in the one God sent, but it's really important we don't try to distinguish words like " of" and create a reason to avoid what he says. Or that we take one verse like " saved by grace through faith " and then eliminate all he instructs us to do, because faith does works, but we have to agree. Faith works in this wise

            “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
            **John‬ *6:29‬ *KJV‬‬


            as we persevere and hear him in whom we believe we cannot reject this

            “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
            **John‬ *5:24‬ *KJV‬‬


            as we persevere in his word in whom we believe we cannot reject

            “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
            **John‬ *8:31-32‬ *KJV‬‬

            *********************************

            as we continue in his word in whom we believe we cannot reject

            “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

            Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

            But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
            **Luke‬ *6:46-49‬ *KJV‬‬

            faith doesn't remain a tiny seed, it grows in us through and only through faith in Christ Jesus . We can't ever reject his word, that's faith that saves us. And as we persevere he brings us into obedience , by this faith we hold so dear. He is able to save those who accept his faith.

            there are a lot of verses saying " faith in" as well more actually. Simply put if we believe in Jesus , sincerely, we will hunger for his word and accept it even when requires of us, because eventually faith leads to works and grace teaches us this

            “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

            Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
            **Titus‬ *2:11-14‬ *KJV‬‬


            we simply are not saved in continuance of our sinful pasts, faith is to bring us out of that , and into the grace which does that for us, redeems us into those who aren't always expressing " don't work, just rest nothing to do,here, Jesus already did everything" ....into those zealous for good works ultimately

            “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”
            **1 John‬ *5:2-3‬ *KJV‬‬


            that's not talking about Moses commandments, but those of Christ. Where faith exists.
            You presented two themes in your proffered verses. I have divided them with a line of *******
            1. The application of faith. That is, in your first verses faith is available and to be used
              *******
            2. The application of works of obedience

            But you still did not show whether faith is INNATE in man, or whether he is destitute of it and needs it to be GIVEN to him. Your answer will decide whether;
            1. We exercise the faith OF Christ. "OF" means "proceeding FROM". e.g. "Jesus OF Nazareth"
            2. We exercise our own faith. That is, all men possess faith to move mountains but most will not exercise it in the matter of Jesus Christ. But those that do exercise THEIR faith, have faith IN Jesus.

            In THIS theme, OF or IN is vitally important. Example. You preach the gospel on a street corner every Friday evening after work. WHAT IS YOUR ASSUMPTION? Do the listeners have faith, and you are there to spur them on to use it? OR, do the listeners have no faith and you must rely on God to GIVE faith to the listeners? The correct answer is vital to your evangelizing.

            That ... is the discussion!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Faith OF Jesus Christ vs. faith IN Jesus Christ

              Originally posted by Walls View Post
              You presented two themes in your proffered verses. I have divided them with a line of *******
              1. The application of faith. That is, in your first verses faith is available and to be used
                *******
              2. The application of works of obedience

              But you still did not show whether faith is INNATE in man, or whether he is destitute of it and needs it to be GIVEN to him. Your answer will decide whether;
              1. We exercise the faith OF Christ. "OF" means "proceeding FROM". e.g. "Jesus OF Nazareth"
              2. We exercise our own faith. That is, all men possess faith to move mountains but most will not exercise it in the matter of Jesus Christ. But those that do exercise THEIR faith, have faith IN Jesus.

              In THIS theme, OF or IN is vitally important. Example. You preach the gospel on a street corner every Friday evening after work. WHAT IS YOUR ASSUMPTION? Do the listeners have faith, and you are there to spur them on to use it? OR, do the listeners have no faith and you must rely on God to GIVE faith to the listeners? The correct answer is vital to your evangelizing.

              That ... is the discussion!

              It's a rather circular logic you are using, faith comes by hearing, the living word of God. It comes from Jesus Cjrist to those who believe him.

              like this woman

              “And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
              **Luke‬ *7:50‬ *KJV‬‬

              vs. " my faith has saved you"

              “And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.

              The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. <<< this guy had faith in Jesus Christ being who he said he was.


              For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

              Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

              And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.”
              **Matthew‬ *8:6-10, 13‬ *KJV‬‬

              it's about believing the gospel. The gospel tells us who Jesus is, he is the Christ, the son of God. The Christ would not only die for the sins of the people he also was foretold to deliver the doctrine of the living God. And isn't it quite interesting that Jesus began teaching about faith and the power of faith?

              “The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”
              **John‬ *4:25-26‬ *KJV‬‬

              and who began centering doctrine upon faith?

              “And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

              For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

              And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
              **Mark‬ *11:22-26‬ *KJV‬‬


              faith isn't magically given , it comes through hearing the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Not hearing and then avoiding, but hearing as in accepting it's truth eternal. That's what produces faith , the word of God when we accept it, because our confession is Jesus is Lord. So when we come to the lord and hear " why ye call me lord lord and do not what I say? " it is meant to grow our faith , if we avoid his word our faith is dead his words are living and active in us changing the issues we have in the heart.

              “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
              **Hebrews‬ *4:12‬ *KJV‬‬

              faith id give to us, through the word of God, very simple. It's a gift , but we can refuse a gift, or accept it. His word is the delivery of that Goft we can either decline his word, or accept it, therein is saving faith.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Faith OF Jesus Christ vs. faith IN Jesus Christ

                Originally posted by mailmandan View Post
                I have recently ran across someone who argues that the correct translation of Galatians 2:16 is faith OF Jesus Christ (KJV) rather then faith IN Jesus Christ. (NLJV, NASB, NIV) Also in Galatians 2:20 he argues for faith OF the Son of God (KJV) rather than faith IN the Son of God. (NKJV, NASB, NIV) At first I though this was going to be a KJV only argument, but instead, he argued that there is a difference between, "the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the Son of God.." and "the life which we now live in the flesh we live by faith IN the Son of God." When I asked him what the difference is and how does this effect doctrine, he simply quoted Romans 10:4-8 and bolded "..that is the word of faith which we preach. I still do not understand the point this person is trying to make. Has anyone else ever heard this argument before?
                I've seen it before and i see it as just another attack on the King James Bible..

                Is Christ in you? If He is then its the faith "Of" Jesus Christ if not then it's something else..
                A man is in a great place when he has no one to turn to but God.

                ~ Smith Wigglesworth

                sigpic

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Faith OF Jesus Christ vs. faith IN Jesus Christ

                  Originally posted by Jude View Post
                  I've seen it before and i see it as just another attack on the King James Bible..

                  Is Christ in you? If He is then its the faith "Of" Jesus Christ if not then it's something else..

                  amen the word of or in doesn't matter.

                  “Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,”
                  **Ephesians‬ *1:15‬ *KJV‬‬

                  “Since we heard of [B]your faith in Christ Jesus[/B], and of the love which ye have to all the saints,”
                  **Colossians‬ *1:4‬ *KJV‬‬


                  the important thing concerning faith

                  Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.”
                  **1 Peter‬ *1:21‬ *KJV‬‬

                  “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
                  **Galatians‬ *3:26‬ *KJV‬‬


                  everything we have that is worthy comes from Jesus....that's precisely why our faith is Firmly planted in him If we have faith in ourselves it's misplaced, if I have faith that Jesus Christ is able to perform those great and precious promises he made to believers , it's victory over the enemies only weapon a lie explaining Jesus words will fail..... If we remain steadfast in our growth it's eternal life with the guarantee , knowing Jesus Christ cannot fail, even when he is laid dead in a tomb, he said he would rise the third day, and we know what happened.

                  we believe in salvation because he promised it. We believe we have eternal life in him, because he promised it, we believe we have been forgiven because he spoke it, we believe all we believe because he spoke it, and it is so.

                  Originally posted by Jude View Post
                  I've seen it before and i see it as just another attack on the King James Bible..

                  Is Christ in you? If He is then its the faith "Of" Jesus Christ if not then it's something else..

                  amen the word of or in doesn't matter.

                  “Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,”
                  **Ephesians‬ *1:15‬ *KJV‬‬

                  “Since we heard of [B]your faith in Christ Jesus[/B], and of the love which ye have to all the saints,”
                  **Colossians‬ *1:4‬ *KJV‬‬


                  the important thing concerning faith

                  Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.”
                  **1 Peter‬ *1:21‬ *KJV‬‬

                  “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
                  **Galatians‬ *3:26‬ *KJV‬‬


                  everything we have that is worthy comes from Jesus....that's precisely why our faith is Firmly planted in him If we have faith in ourselves it's misplaced, if I have faith that Jesus Christ is able to perform those great and precious promises he made to believers , it's victory over the enemies only weapon a lie explaining Jesus words will fail..... If we remain steadfast in our growth it's eternal life with the guarantee , knowing Jesus Christ cannot fail, even when he is laid dead in a tomb, he said he would rise the third day, and we know what happened.

                  we believe in salvation because he promised it. We believe we have eternal life in him, because he promised it, we believe we have been forgiven because he spoke it, we believe all we believe because he spoke it, and it is so.

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