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The Whys & Whats

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  • The Whys & Whats

    ... looking for comments on Job 4:12-21 brought me here, the well-thoughtout responses keep my interest.

    Thank you for this wonderful way to fellowship!

  • #2
    Re: The Whys & Whats

    Welcome to the BF's.

    In regard to Job, this, as you know is a speech by one of Job's friends, Eliphaz.

    The BEST thing Eliphaz did for his friend, Job, was to sit with him for seven days, cry with him, and cover himself in ashes as a sign of mourning. It's when he started opening his mouth that he added to Job's grief. How many times we think we need to give our grieving friends a speech and they just need us to cry and mourn with them.

    Then Job begins to mourn aloud and curses the day he was born.

    Apparently, Eliphaz believes that Job has sinned in some way and that's when he opens his big, fat mouth and tries to lure Job into "confessing".

    So, about your passage in question:

    Chapter 4:12-21
    • "Now a word was brought to me stealthily; my ear received the whisper of it. Amid thoughts from visions of the night, when deep sleep falls on men, dread came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones shake. A spirit glided past my face; the hair of my flesh stood up. It stood still, but I could not discern its appearance. A form was before my eyes; there was silence, then I heard a voice..."
      • Basically, Eliphaz claims that he has had a nightmare about this and he even states that a "spirit" was there speaking to him. Is he telling the truth? Is he lying and claiming a supernatural experience to make his nightmare give credibility to his assertion that Job has sinned and is being punished? I don't know. But let's say for the sake of argument that he is telling the truth. Is this an angel or a demon? I think it's a demon. It didn't try to stop Eliphaz's fears as all angels do. In fact it ENVOKED fear in Eliphaz. That means what the demon says next is not right.
    • ‘Can mortal man be in the right before God? Can a man be pure before his Maker? Even in his servants he puts no trust, and his angels he charges with error; how much more those who dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, who are crushed like the moth. Between morning and evening they are beaten to pieces; they perish forever without anyone regarding it. Is not their tent-cord plucked up within them, do they not die, and that without wisdom?"
      • What the spirit says is, in part, true. Man is wicked and cannot be trusted on his own. Man cannot be compared to God and man has no purity on his own. BUT this message has no hope - no chance for redemption. The message basically is saying that mankind is awful and is going to die in a horrible and unworthy state, so get over it and just die. That's not the message of the Bible.

    Where this message came from , Eliphaz's own mind or a real demon, it is a lie and is not why Job is enduring these sufferings.

    In fact, we know why, because we have the first couple of chapters to see why. But Job never knew what was going on in the heavenlies. He never understood the reason, but he prevailed nonetheless.

    Just imagine if he had taken Eliphaz's counsel!?!?!?
    "'s your nickel"


    • #3
      Re: The Whys & Whats

      Hello, Lndonnabrooks, and welcome to the Bible Forums.

      Generally we all look at the book of Job with an insight that Job and his friends did not have—that God allowed this orchestrated attack by Satan on an innocent man.

      We learn of Eliphaz’s thoughts about what is happening. He implies that, since good is rewarded and bad is punished, Job is being punished by God for something bad he must have done. He thinks Job should admit his sin and take his punishment, as it will benefit him in the future. But bad things sometimes do happen to good people; that fact is shown in this story.

      The spirit speaking was not from God, or it would be stated as such. Even so, Eliphaz is relaying information and trying to influence a Godly man with thoughts from an evil spirit. Who else would imply God’s servants are foolish and should not be trusted? And if all of humankind cannot be trusted, why is God trusting Job? Jayne’s thought that the spirit didn’t attempt to quell Eliphaz’s fear, adds credibility that it was not an angle or spirit of God.
      The Outlaw Bible StudentStudies on the Fringe of Christianity