Re: Where does Jewish messiah fits in?
I agree. But none of those "premature antichrists" fulfilled messianic hope, so I am saying "maybe some other PREMATURE antichrist will come that WILL fulfill messinic hope". That would be the "third Messiah".
But statistics seems different. Back then it was 50% of Jews that were faithful and 50% of Jews that weren't; but right now its like 1% of Jews thats faithful and 99% that isn't.
Well, the way it matters is that when Jews pray for Messiah that prayer would be less dreadful if it refers to premature antichrist than it would be if it refers to real antichrist.
Its strange the way you put it that Jews opposed HItler because he was vile while totally overlooking the other factor that he focused his persecution on Jews specifically. Or are you saying that if Jews were to like him then he would have liked them as well? I mean its hard to believe, since he wrote Main Kampf long before Jews had chance to oppose him. Or are you saying Jews had a chance to prove him wrong so to speak?
Actually there is a reason to believe it would be quite a while. If endtimes were to happen now, then one of the political leaders would have to be the antichrist. HOwever, I can disqualify Obama, Trump, and anyone else you might think of on the simple fact that none of them have 99% support. Most of the todays polititians who were accused of being antichrist are polarizing figures, which means that 50% of people really like them and the other 50% really hate them. But thats not what the real antichrist will be like. With real antichrist 99% of people will like him and 1% will hate him. This didn't happen yet. Stalin and Hitler were much better candidates since they got 99% support in their respective countries -- but even they didn't make it since they didn't get to rule over other countries, which is the other reason we don't have the antichrist yet. Neither Obama nor Trump runs the world, they only run the US. So I guess we would have to look at NATO then, but I can't think of anyone in NATO whom everyone likes and admires the way they liked and admired Stalin and Hitler.
There is yet another reason why the end times might not be as close as some think. The mark of the beast is Revelation 13. But prior to Revelation 13 all kinds of other things have to happen. Such as sealing of 144000, the preaching of the 2 wittnesses, those 2 wittnesses being killed and then rising on the third day (which is still Revelation 11, two chapters BEFORE the 13) and so forth. Also what about locusts, water turning into blood, and all that other stuff?
By the way, things like water turning into blood is a reason why antichrist would NOT be Jewish messiah since Jews expect prosperity. That would, in turn, imply that if Jewish messiah were to come on the scene, it would be one of the "premature antichrists".
But that is only one of the prophecies to be fulfilled, but not the only one. First of all, you don't know whether "son of perdition sitting in the temple of God" refers to the rebuilt temple of Jerusalem OR whether it refers to Vatican OR something else (such as Mecca and so forth). We are just speculating. But EVEN IF it were to refer to the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, it doesn't say that it happens immediately after the temple is rebuilt; it might happen several years later. And if it happens several years later, that would give plenty of room for "premature antichrist" to sit in that temple.
But its possible that the type of apostasy God will be rescuing them from is far worse than what you see today. I mean, if you were to tell someone in the 19-th century about homosexuality, abortion, etc. etc. they would never believe that it would happen -- yet here we are, its happening. So how do you know that we wouldn't be having things like legalised paedophilia, zoophilia, cannibalism and so forth -- which we would never believe today would happen but it will -- and THATS what God will be rescuing us from?
1) If Jewish messiah is false messiah it doesn't mean its antichrist, it might be a premature antichrist
2) If its premature antichrist then why does it have to be bad? Jews don't believe their messiah is God, also they don't believe their messiah is savior either, the sole mission of their messiah is make peace and prosperity here on earth. So if Jewish messiah comes and brings peace and prosperity WITHOUT making people worship him and WITHOUT claiming to be God, then what is so wrong about it? There is no idolatry in that is there? Thats why I said that it might be antisemitic to oppose Jewish Messiah.
3) Going back to the possibility that something MIGHT be wrong with Jewish Messiah, maybe people will make point 2 as part of the deception.
I wasn't talking about Messianic Jews. I was talking about regular Jews. Regular Jews also mention Messiah in their prayers -- but they don't believe that Messiah is Jesus. Hence the obvious question: are they
a) Praying for coming of Jesus without realizing it
b) Praying for coming of antichrist
c) Praying for some "third" Messiah
Once again, I am talking about regular Jews NOT Messianic ones
With Messianic Jews the answer is "a", its no-brainer. But with regular Jews its a lot more interesting.
I agree. And those two statements put together imply that "untamed animal" can tell the truth -- if I am lucky -- hence the fun of speculation.
Exactly. Since Jews don't believe their messiah to be divine nor do they believe their Messiah to be savior in a sense of an afterlife, to them its all about sociological development.
But thats their current view of Messiah though -- ask any Jewish rabbi thats not messianic.
Go to some synagoge thats NOT Messianic, and you will note they WILL mention Messiah in their prayers -- its just that said Messiah won't be Jesus. Hence the question as to whom exactly are they referring to.
I think it would be one of the tools antichrist will use: he will bring up historic guilt of antisemitism in order to make people put the Jews on a pedestal, which would be part of endtime deception. Just like the globalisation will be brought about by the historic guilt of racism.
Good 
I agree. But none of those "premature antichrists" fulfilled messianic hope, so I am saying "maybe some other PREMATURE antichrist will come that WILL fulfill messinic hope". That would be the "third Messiah".
But statistics seems different. Back then it was 50% of Jews that were faithful and 50% of Jews that weren't; but right now its like 1% of Jews thats faithful and 99% that isn't.
Well, the way it matters is that when Jews pray for Messiah that prayer would be less dreadful if it refers to premature antichrist than it would be if it refers to real antichrist.
Its strange the way you put it that Jews opposed HItler because he was vile while totally overlooking the other factor that he focused his persecution on Jews specifically. Or are you saying that if Jews were to like him then he would have liked them as well? I mean its hard to believe, since he wrote Main Kampf long before Jews had chance to oppose him. Or are you saying Jews had a chance to prove him wrong so to speak?
Actually there is a reason to believe it would be quite a while. If endtimes were to happen now, then one of the political leaders would have to be the antichrist. HOwever, I can disqualify Obama, Trump, and anyone else you might think of on the simple fact that none of them have 99% support. Most of the todays polititians who were accused of being antichrist are polarizing figures, which means that 50% of people really like them and the other 50% really hate them. But thats not what the real antichrist will be like. With real antichrist 99% of people will like him and 1% will hate him. This didn't happen yet. Stalin and Hitler were much better candidates since they got 99% support in their respective countries -- but even they didn't make it since they didn't get to rule over other countries, which is the other reason we don't have the antichrist yet. Neither Obama nor Trump runs the world, they only run the US. So I guess we would have to look at NATO then, but I can't think of anyone in NATO whom everyone likes and admires the way they liked and admired Stalin and Hitler.
There is yet another reason why the end times might not be as close as some think. The mark of the beast is Revelation 13. But prior to Revelation 13 all kinds of other things have to happen. Such as sealing of 144000, the preaching of the 2 wittnesses, those 2 wittnesses being killed and then rising on the third day (which is still Revelation 11, two chapters BEFORE the 13) and so forth. Also what about locusts, water turning into blood, and all that other stuff?
By the way, things like water turning into blood is a reason why antichrist would NOT be Jewish messiah since Jews expect prosperity. That would, in turn, imply that if Jewish messiah were to come on the scene, it would be one of the "premature antichrists".
But that is only one of the prophecies to be fulfilled, but not the only one. First of all, you don't know whether "son of perdition sitting in the temple of God" refers to the rebuilt temple of Jerusalem OR whether it refers to Vatican OR something else (such as Mecca and so forth). We are just speculating. But EVEN IF it were to refer to the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, it doesn't say that it happens immediately after the temple is rebuilt; it might happen several years later. And if it happens several years later, that would give plenty of room for "premature antichrist" to sit in that temple.
But its possible that the type of apostasy God will be rescuing them from is far worse than what you see today. I mean, if you were to tell someone in the 19-th century about homosexuality, abortion, etc. etc. they would never believe that it would happen -- yet here we are, its happening. So how do you know that we wouldn't be having things like legalised paedophilia, zoophilia, cannibalism and so forth -- which we would never believe today would happen but it will -- and THATS what God will be rescuing us from?
1) If Jewish messiah is false messiah it doesn't mean its antichrist, it might be a premature antichrist
2) If its premature antichrist then why does it have to be bad? Jews don't believe their messiah is God, also they don't believe their messiah is savior either, the sole mission of their messiah is make peace and prosperity here on earth. So if Jewish messiah comes and brings peace and prosperity WITHOUT making people worship him and WITHOUT claiming to be God, then what is so wrong about it? There is no idolatry in that is there? Thats why I said that it might be antisemitic to oppose Jewish Messiah.
3) Going back to the possibility that something MIGHT be wrong with Jewish Messiah, maybe people will make point 2 as part of the deception.
I wasn't talking about Messianic Jews. I was talking about regular Jews. Regular Jews also mention Messiah in their prayers -- but they don't believe that Messiah is Jesus. Hence the obvious question: are they
a) Praying for coming of Jesus without realizing it
b) Praying for coming of antichrist
c) Praying for some "third" Messiah
Once again, I am talking about regular Jews NOT Messianic ones
With Messianic Jews the answer is "a", its no-brainer. But with regular Jews its a lot more interesting.
I agree. And those two statements put together imply that "untamed animal" can tell the truth -- if I am lucky -- hence the fun of speculation.
Exactly. Since Jews don't believe their messiah to be divine nor do they believe their Messiah to be savior in a sense of an afterlife, to them its all about sociological development.
But thats their current view of Messiah though -- ask any Jewish rabbi thats not messianic.
Go to some synagoge thats NOT Messianic, and you will note they WILL mention Messiah in their prayers -- its just that said Messiah won't be Jesus. Hence the question as to whom exactly are they referring to.
I think it would be one of the tools antichrist will use: he will bring up historic guilt of antisemitism in order to make people put the Jews on a pedestal, which would be part of endtime deception. Just like the globalisation will be brought about by the historic guilt of racism.
Good
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
There is yet another reason why the end times might not be as close as some think. The mark of the beast is Revelation 13. But prior to Revelation 13 all kinds of other things have to happen. Such as sealing of 144000, the preaching of the 2 wittnesses, those 2 wittnesses being killed and then rising on the third day (which is still Revelation 11, two chapters BEFORE the 13) and so forth. Also what about locusts, water turning into blood, and all that other stuff?
By the way, things like water turning into blood is a reason why antichrist would NOT be Jewish messiah since Jews expect prosperity. That would, in turn, imply that if Jewish messiah were to come on the scene, it would be one of the "premature antichrists".
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
2) If its premature antichrist then why does it have to be bad? Jews don't believe their messiah is God, also they don't believe their messiah is savior either, the sole mission of their messiah is make peace and prosperity here on earth. So if Jewish messiah comes and brings peace and prosperity WITHOUT making people worship him and WITHOUT claiming to be God, then what is so wrong about it? There is no idolatry in that is there? Thats why I said that it might be antisemitic to oppose Jewish Messiah.
3) Going back to the possibility that something MIGHT be wrong with Jewish Messiah, maybe people will make point 2 as part of the deception.
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
a) Praying for coming of Jesus without realizing it
b) Praying for coming of antichrist
c) Praying for some "third" Messiah
Once again, I am talking about regular Jews NOT Messianic ones
With Messianic Jews the answer is "a", its no-brainer. But with regular Jews its a lot more interesting.
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post

Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
There is yet another reason why the end times might not be as close as some think. The mark of the beast is Revelation 13. But prior to Revelation 13 all kinds of other things have to happen. Such as sealing of 144000, the preaching of the 2 wittnesses, those 2 wittnesses being killed and then rising on the third day (which is still Revelation 11, two chapters BEFORE the 13) and so forth. Also what about locusts, water turning into blood, and all that other stuff?
By the way, things like water turning into blood is a reason why antichrist would NOT be Jewish messiah since Jews expect prosperity. That would, in turn, imply that if Jewish messiah were to come on the scene, it would be one of the "premature antichrists".
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
2) If its premature antichrist then why does it have to be bad? Jews don't believe their messiah is God, also they don't believe their messiah is savior either, the sole mission of their messiah is make peace and prosperity here on earth. So if Jewish messiah comes and brings peace and prosperity WITHOUT making people worship him and WITHOUT claiming to be God, then what is so wrong about it? There is no idolatry in that is there? Thats why I said that it might be antisemitic to oppose Jewish Messiah.
3) Going back to the possibility that something MIGHT be wrong with Jewish Messiah, maybe people will make point 2 as part of the deception.
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
a) Praying for coming of Jesus without realizing it
b) Praying for coming of antichrist
c) Praying for some "third" Messiah
Once again, I am talking about regular Jews NOT Messianic ones
With Messianic Jews the answer is "a", its no-brainer. But with regular Jews its a lot more interesting.
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post
Originally posted by randyk
View Post

Comment