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  • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No but that is your position and interpretation not mine. Mine is the flood wasn't global so many people survived because the flood was nowhere near them. Yours is the flood was global and everything died except what was on the Ark.
    Genetics shows that the whole population of earth comes from an earlier female individual, then a LATER male individual. So whether or not there was a worldwide flood, something caused the whole planet to breed from one particular male, any ideas what caused this, if not a flood?

    Comment


    • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

      Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
      Concerning what Peter is led to teach in 2 Peter 3, would you like to start a thread devoted to the scriptures in 2 Peter? BTW... v10
      2 Pet 3.10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

      Though none of this represents proof of a universal Flood it is an interesting subject. Currently, you use a single questionable verse in order to prove a Universal Flood. All we have is that a Great Local Flood destroys *everything* within the territory of the deluge, indicating that something similar will happen to the world at the end of the age. Everything within the scope of the Flood was destroyed. Everything on earth that resists the Kingdom of God will be defeated by fire. Nothing about this prove a Universal Flood.

      As to 2 Pet 3.10, I will try my hand, though I by no means fully understand its meaning. The "thief" metaphor indicates that the inhabitants of the world are preoccupied with unspiritual things, and will be engaged in sinful behavior not knowing that judgment day has come. The disappearance of the heavens, or its passing away, has to do with a devastating impact upon the atmosphere, causing it to drastically change. The burning of the earth, and its being "laid bare," has to do with the termination of control over the earth by wicked men. Control is wrested from them by an atmospheric change, and by great destruction on earth, ie by Armageddon and probably a nuclear war.

      When *everybody died* during the Flood "under the heaven," it was a reference to the entire region under the sky in the territory Noah lived in. Everybody in that locale died. And it was every bit an indication that evil men will be completely undone at the end of the age, when Antichrist will be defeated. His control on earth will be completely undone. His entire Kingdom will be inundated by fire, or perhaps bombs.

      Comment


      • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

        Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
        Genetics shows that the whole population of earth comes from an earlier female individual, then a LATER male individual. So whether or not there was a worldwide flood, something caused the whole planet to breed from one particular male, any ideas what caused this, if not a flood?
        The info doesn't help a global flood interp.

        https://www.livescience.com/38613-ge...uncovered.html

        "Almost every man alive can trace his origins to one man who lived about 135,000 years ago, new research suggests. And that ancient man likely shared the planet with the mother of all women.

        The findings, detailed today (Aug. 1) in the journal Science, come from the most complete analysis of the male sex chromosome, or the Y chromosome, to date. The results overturn earlier research, which suggested that men's most recent common ancestor lived just 50,000 to 60,000 years ago.

        Despite their overlap in time, ancient "Adam" and ancient "Eve" probably didn't even live near each other, let alone mate."

        "These primeval people aren't parallel to the biblical Adam and Eve. They weren't the first modern humans on the planet, but instead just the two out of thousands of people alive at the time with unbroken male or female lineages that continue on today.

        The rest of the human genome contains tiny snippets of DNA from many other ancestors — they just don't show up in mitochondrial or Y-chromosome DNA, Hammer said. (For instance, if an ancient woman had only sons, then her mitochondrial DNA would disappear, even though the son would pass on a quarter of her DNA via the rest of his genome.)"
        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

        Comment


        • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

          Originally posted by randyk View Post
          2 Pet 3.10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

          Though none of this represents proof of a universal Flood it is an interesting subject. Currently, you use a single questionable verse in order to prove a Universal Flood. All we have is that a Great Local Flood destroys *everything* within the territory of the deluge, indicating that something similar will happen to the world at the end of the age. Everything within the scope of the Flood was destroyed. Everything on earth that resists the Kingdom of God will be defeated by fire. Nothing about this prove a Universal Flood.

          As to 2 Pet 3.10, I will try my hand, though I by no means fully understand its meaning. The "thief" metaphor indicates that the inhabitants of the world are preoccupied with unspiritual things, and will be engaged in sinful behavior not knowing that judgment day has come. The disappearance of the heavens, or its passing away, has to do with a devastating impact upon the atmosphere, causing it to drastically change. The burning of the earth, and its being "laid bare," has to do with the termination of control over the earth by wicked men. Control is wrested from them by an atmospheric change, and by great destruction on earth, ie by Armageddon and probably a nuclear war.

          When *everybody died* during the Flood "under the heaven," it was a reference to the entire region under the sky in the territory Noah lived in. Everybody in that locale died. And it was every bit an indication that evil men will be completely undone at the end of the age, when Antichrist will be defeated. His control on earth will be completely undone. His entire Kingdom will be inundated by fire, or perhaps bombs.
          Hey brother, I will respond tomorrow more indepth. I meant to say, "through" v10. I did not want to single out that verse.
          --
          Slug1--out

          ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

          Comment


          • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

            Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
            Hey brother, I will respond tomorrow more indepth. I meant to say, "through" v10. I did not want to single out that verse.
            Okay, I've had time limitations throughout the day. My brief responses were due to constant noise interference. Tomorrow...

            Comment


            • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

              Originally posted by percho View Post
              Pre God planting a Garden eastward in Eden. Does Gen 1:6,7 describe a flood state?
              Same question as above.

              Does this present heavens and earth follow beginning day three? Does 2 Peter 3:5,6 refer to the condition of the heavens and earth from Gen 1:2-5 with what takes place after that being this present heavens and earth that last until the new heavens and earth, V13 of 2 Peter 3?

              Comment


              • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                The info doesn't help a global flood interp.

                https://www.livescience.com/38613-ge...uncovered.html

                "Almost every man alive can trace his origins to one man who lived about 135,000 years ago, new research suggests. And that ancient man likely shared the planet with the mother of all women.

                The findings, detailed today (Aug. 1) in the journal Science, come from the most complete analysis of the male sex chromosome, or the Y chromosome, to date. The results overturn earlier research, which suggested that men's most recent common ancestor lived just 50,000 to 60,000 years ago.

                Despite their overlap in time, ancient "Adam" and ancient "Eve" probably didn't even live near each other, let alone mate."

                "These primeval people aren't parallel to the biblical Adam and Eve. They weren't the first modern humans on the planet, but instead just the two out of thousands of people alive at the time with unbroken male or female lineages that continue on today.

                The rest of the human genome contains tiny snippets of DNA from many other ancestors — they just don't show up in mitochondrial or Y-chromosome DNA, Hammer said. (For instance, if an ancient woman had only sons, then her mitochondrial DNA would disappear, even though the son would pass on a quarter of her DNA via the rest of his genome.)"
                I would say it certainly does help a global flood interpretation. If every man on the planet is descended from one man, that event occurring well after the existence of mankind, wow that's an amazing confirmation that there was a world wide disaster in our history where all the male survivors came from just 1 genetic lineage. Exactly how the Bible describes the flood.

                The alternative is that there was another greater disaster than the flood, unmentioned in the bible. The flood takes such prominence in the Bible, that alternative isn't a likely scenario.

                Wikipedia:
                Y-chromosomal data taken from a Neanderthal from El Sidrón, Spain, produced a Y-T-MRCA of 588,000 years ago for neanderthal and Homo sapiens patrilineages, dubbed ante Adam and 275,000 years ago for Y-MRCA.[6]

                Isn't it interesting? I disagree with the ages given, but the Bible claims the most recent common ancestor of all women is Eve, who came before the most recent common ancestor of all men, being Noah.

                Science agrees that the female common ancestor came before the male common ancestor.

                Comment


                • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                  Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post

                  Science agrees that the female common ancestor came before the male common ancestor.
                  Not what the bible says since Adam was before Eve and Eve came from Adam plus none of this says everyone descended from one man's lineage..."The rest of the human genome contains tiny snippets of DNA from many other ancestors"
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                    Not what the bible says since Adam was before Eve and Eve came from Adam plus none of this says everyone descended from one man's lineage..."The rest of the human genome contains tiny snippets of DNA from many other ancestors"
                    Exactly. From your perspective of a local flood, Adam came first, and there wasn't any other world disaster. Science CONTRADICTS your view, showing that long after Eve, there was a single male from whom derives all mankind. This genetic fact requires a worldwide disaster long after Adam was created.

                    As for the "tiny snippets", if every male on earth today comes from one man, there are no "tiny snippets" from other men in the male chromosome, but sure there could be snippets elsewhere in the genome. This doesn't change the situation at all.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                      Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                      Exactly. From your perspective of a local flood, Adam came first, and there wasn't any other world disaster. Science CONTRADICTS your view, showing that long after Eve, there was a single male from whom derives all mankind.
                      The link I posted starts, "Almost every man alive can trace his origins to one man who lived about 135,000 years ago"


                      And 135,000 years ago is WAY before Noah and Adam anyways and I know you don't accept the dating but why accept SOME of the findings and not the datings?. Even this article says "some" are related to a certain single male.


                      What we have is ZERO evidence of a global flood even if any of this scientific data is correct.
                      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                        The link I posted starts, "Almost every man alive can trace his origins to one man who lived about 135,000 years ago"


                        And 135,000 years ago is WAY before Noah and Adam anyways and I know you don't accept the dating but why accept SOME of the findings and not the datings?. Even this article says "some" are related to a certain single male.


                        What we have is ZERO evidence of a global flood even if any of this scientific data is correct.
                        Nah, the Bible wording predominately points to a global flood. You have to water down some pretty strong wording to deny this. You say that almost every man comes from one man, that's untrue, every man does. Only when digging up ancient fossils did they find some variety.

                        Geology has a term "major transgression". This means global flooding and is actually a common occurrence. So it's impossible to deny global flooding does occur from a geological perspective. They do deny the biblical extent of the flooding, yet have no existing end-Permian mountaintops to prove this because they have all been eroded away.

                        And from a scientific perspective, radiometric dating is in doubt. So why accept their dates if there's scientific doubts?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                          Nah, the Bible wording predominately points to a global flood.
                          So does the Roman taxing.

                          You have to water down some pretty strong wording to deny this.
                          lol, "water down"...

                          You say that almost every man comes from one man, that's untrue, every man does.
                          I didn't say any of that, the article did...the same research you think proves there was a global flood.



                          Geology has a term "major transgression". This means global flooding and is actually a common occurrence.
                          That does not claim a complete global flood at any time.

                          So it's impossible to deny global flooding does occur from a geological perspective.
                          Eh, there is no such thing as a global flood from a biblical perspective nor an Atheistic perspective.



                          So why accept their dates if there's scientific doubts?
                          Why accept all the other things you accept from the same sources?
                          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                            So does the Roman taxing.



                            lol, "water down"...



                            I didn't say any of that, the article did...the same research you think proves there was a global flood.





                            That does not claim a complete global flood at any time.



                            Eh, there is no such thing as a global flood from a biblical perspective nor an Atheistic perspective.




                            Why accept all the other things you accept from the same sources?
                            Ewq, all men, every man alive today, come from one man, no exceptions:

                            Wikipedia:

                            In human genetics, the Y-chromosomal most recent common ancestor (Y-MRCA, informally known as Y-chromosomal Adam) is the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) from whom all currently living men are descended patrilineally. The term Y-MRCA reflects the fact that the Y chromosomes of all currently living human males are directly derived from the Y chromosome of this remote ancestor.

                            Other than the y chromosome, of course there are previous men, before the Y-MRCA. This can be traced in DNA, but does not change the fact that every man alive comes from one man subsequent to Eve, NOT prior to Eve.

                            These are the facts. So you will need to include a massive event in your own timeline that causes the entire male population of earth to derive from one individual, long after Adam and Eve. How does your view of history explain that fact?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                              So does the Roman taxing.



                              lol, "water down"...



                              I didn't say any of that, the article did...the same research you think proves there was a global flood.
                              The very same article you quote, also says "all males in their global sample shared a single male ancestor"
                              https://www.livescience.com/38613-ge...uncovered.html
                              assuming a mutation rate anchored to archaeological events (such as the migration of people across the Bering Strait), the team concluded that all males in their global sample shared a single male ancestor in Africa roughly 125,000 to 156,000 years ago.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Location: Garden of Eden
                                Originally Posted by ewq1938

                                What we have is ZERO evidence of a global flood even if any of this scientific data is correct.

                                Watch, "Is Genesis History" and there is massive evidence found even in the Grand Canyon. Which is suppressed. I pray that when you watch it, you do not suppress the evidence but instead, reevaluate your position
                                --
                                Slug1--out

                                ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                                Comment

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