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  • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    God wants to reason with Man--not just believe He can do anything! In order to reason with us, certain natural laws have to be laid down, so that men can depend on them. To explain away geological history through catastrophism, denying uniformitarian principles of geological development, has some credibility. But to simply refer to the fact "God can do anything" doesn't help, in my opinion.

    You aren't beginning to touch the enormity of the problems of maintaining the balance of nature on the ark, assuming a universal Flood lasted a year! As I said earlier, I've had aquariums with closed environments, where creatures were completely dependent on me. It is very easy for life to die out with just a small amount of neglect. As tenacious as weeds are, just lay a carpet over them for a year, and see how many survive?

    To say insects survived on the ark, two by two, does not explain the huge variety of insect life, many of which would simply eat or destroy the other. I can see the ark completely covered by a great variety of flies, bees, butterflies, moths, mosquito-eaters, gnats, beetles, potato bugs, termites, ants etc. with *all of their different species*--all while the ark swims through an ocean with waves and nothing to feed on but each other.

    Keep in mind that fish need to feed too. Although you might assume that fish can survive in a Flood, they likely wouldn't. Most varieties of marine life would require, I should think, shallower areas of the ocean. An enormous Flood, covering the entire globe, and the highest mountains, would crush shallow sea life.

    You would have to explain how the loss of sensitive habitats would enable the great diversity of animal and insect life to survive? Many require certain plants and certain temperatures. A world wide Flood protecting all species in a single ark would not provide that!

    One can explain anything by "God's power." But is this how God wishes to "reason" with us? It is much more sensible to view this as a less than world-wide Flood taking place in a local habitat. The universal language seems to be your obstacle?

    You know what it just dawned on me in this discussion that Noah was NOT the main planner of this operation !

    God was the one that said the flood would come . God gave the plans for the Ark to Noah . God gave Noah all the instructions he would need to complete his voyage . Doesn't this make sense ?

    If God wanted the whole earth flooded and started over do you not think God could cover every one of the problems you brought up ? Or is your God limited in some way ?

    This not our logic at work it is God's logic at work !

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    • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

      Originally posted by hawkman View Post
      You know what it just dawned on me in this discussion that Noah was NOT the main planner of this operation !

      God was the one that said the flood would come . God gave the plans for the Ark to Noah . God gave Noah all the instructions he would need to complete his voyage . Doesn't this make sense ?

      If God wanted the whole earth flooded and started over do you not think God could cover every one of the problems you brought up ? Or is your God limited in some way ?

      This not our logic at work it is God's logic at work !
      I don't think so. Everything God did, from having Noah build an ark to explaining that the Flood happened by rain and ground surge, indicates this took place in a natural setting, and not as a super-miracle. When God created the world, He said He finished the job. To create 8 x the amount of water to cover the highest mountain ranges on earth would amount to a whole new creation. But God said He was finished creating by the 7th day, and I believe Him.

      You are not arguing for a Universal Flood. You are using a non-argument, simply because you think the Scriptures teach a Universal Flood. If you ignore the evidence that this language was universal but applicable only to a local environment, then you're not arguing at all. You can argue that God can cause angels to dance on the tip of a pin, if you like?

      God's whole purpose was *not* to destroy the whole earth, and all of its creatures. That is the idea behind Noah preserving animals from his own local region. And so, if God never intended to destroy all the animals on earth, but only the animals within the region of this wicked civilization, it makes sense that God would not destroy all animals, fish, birds, insects, and plant life across the whole globe!

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      • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

        Originally posted by randyk View Post
        And so, if God never intended to destroy all the animals on earth, but only the animals within the region of this wicked civilization, it makes sense that God would not destroy all animals, fish, birds, insects, and plant life across the whole globe!
        And funny how God decides to have this flood right after telling us about the Son's of God having children with females and how there were giants...must be a coincidence!
        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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        • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

          Originally posted by randyk View Post
          I don't think so. Everything God did, from having Noah build an ark to explaining that the Flood happened by rain and ground surge, indicates this took place in a natural setting, and not as a super-miracle. When God created the world, He said He finished the job. To create 8 x the amount of water to cover the highest mountain ranges on earth would amount to a whole new creation. But God said He was finished creating by the 7th day, and I believe Him.

          You are not arguing for a Universal Flood. You are using a non-argument, simply because you think the Scriptures teach a Universal Flood. If you ignore the evidence that this language was universal but applicable only to a local environment, then you're not arguing at all. You can argue that God can cause angels to dance on the tip of a pin, if you like?

          God's whole purpose was *not* to destroy the whole earth, and all of its creatures. That is the idea behind Noah preserving animals from his own local region. And so, if God never intended to destroy all the animals on earth, but only the animals within the region of this wicked civilization, it makes sense that God would not destroy all animals, fish, birds, insects, and plant life across the whole globe!

          Please answer my 2 questions YES or NO .

          Did God plan for the flood to happen ?

          Did God plan for Noah and all aboard to survive the flood ?

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          • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

            Originally posted by hawkman View Post
            Please answer my 2 questions YES or NO .

            Did God plan for the flood to happen ?

            Did God plan for Noah and all aboard to survive the flood ?
            1) Yes
            2) Yes

            God said the whole earth (all the land within the sight of Noah's civilization) would be buried beneath water, destroying all life. God had Noah build the ark to preserve not only his own family but also a sampling of animals from that region, to represent God's intention to preserve all animal life on earth.

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            • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

              Originally posted by randyk View Post
              1) Yes
              2) Yes

              God said the whole earth (all the land within the sight of Noah's civilization) would be buried beneath water, destroying all life. God had Noah build the ark to preserve not only his own family but also a sampling of animals from that region, to represent God's intention to preserve all animal life on earth.
              Hi,
              I think that in that book there is also another important part describing that God had seen the violence of man, and does it not say that the Lord had regret in his heart for having made them because that the imagination of there hearts were only perpetually evil.
              And I do also think it says that the Earth also will be destroyed during the event ?

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              • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                I believe there is reason to believe that the Garden of Eden was in the original land grant given to Abraham

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                • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                  Originally posted by hawkman View Post
                  You know what it just dawned on me in this discussion that Noah was NOT the main planner of this operation !

                  God was the one that said the flood would come . God gave the plans for the Ark to Noah . God gave Noah all the instructions he would need to complete his voyage . Doesn't this make sense ?

                  If God wanted the whole earth flooded and started over do you not think God could cover every one of the problems you brought up ? Or is your God limited in some way ?

                  This not our logic at work it is God's logic at work !
                  Hi, just want to interject a few thoughts. There was no steering wheel or rudder, understanding the Ark symbolizes the Lord Jesus we know that is the only place to be safe rom God's out poured wrath. Just as He did with Israel in the wilderness and He has not only run the race before He trains us and then runs with us we move through this world all the time being taken by the Lord to where He would travel and or settle us in one place but it is meant to be His Will not ours. Every tap of Noah's hammer testifies against the unbelievers. Noah did not have to do any to be testimony than building what represents the Lord Jesus. No need to stand on corners and yell at people or any of the failed things Christians often do with the best of intentions. Our Lord was a carpenter and He was building us into His house and now it is our turn and we are to be about the building of the Church. Go ye into all the world and make disciples of men is our call, building the Ark men may step in to avoid the coming flood of fire.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                    Originally posted by breathoflife View Post
                    Hi, just want to interject a few thoughts. There was no steering wheel or rudder, understanding the Ark symbolizes the Lord Jesus we know that is the only place to be safe rom God's out poured wrath. Just as He did with Israel in the wilderness and He has not only run the race before He trains us and then runs with us we move through this world all the time being taken by the Lord to where He would travel and or settle us in one place but it is meant to be His Will not ours. Every tap of Noah's hammer testifies against the unbelievers. Noah did not have to do any to be testimony than building what represents the Lord Jesus. No need to stand on corners and yell at people or any of the failed things Christians often do with the best of intentions. Our Lord was a carpenter and He was building us into His house and now it is our turn and we are to be about the building of the Church. Go ye into all the world and make disciples of men is our call, building the Ark men may step in to avoid the coming flood of fire.
                    Yes, the ark represents God's word to Noah's time. Those who respond to God's word will find safety from the wrath of God against all ungodliness. Man, left to his own devices, eventually becomes exceedingly wicked. And this necessarily brings comprehensive judgment. In all times and places, whatever the state the society is in, we can always respond to the word of Christ, and find God's good pleasure.

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