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  • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

    Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
    But the "flood" isn't under that figure of speech.
    Just showing you how the author of scripture uses figures of speech.

    All the earth UNDER heaven is the specificity, concerning how much of the earth is covered. Is there any portion of the earth NOT, under heaven?
    All it means is the mountains under the sky, the visible area of the world and sky Noah lived in.


    Out of interest, what "year" in history would your statement place mankind "in" history, in relation to creation?
    The point is that the Chinese and Egyptians would have been wiped out if the flood was literally global. The fact that the flood did not kill them proves it wasn't global.



    "for pyramids could never withstand a worldwide flood."

    lol, what? They couldn't survive 5 months of being under water? Nonsense.


    Again, I side with the Bible as where to measure from
    The only issue here is misinterpreting the flood to have been global rather than localized just like the example of Lot the NT uses alongside the example of Noah...same basic thing will happen the day Christ returns. Global death of all unbelievers? Nope. Localized death especially at Armageddon. That's where the armies will be, so that's where most death's occur.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

    Comment


    • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

      Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
      You state that everything was killed by the flood.
      No, I didn't plus you avoided addressing the content of my post.
      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

      Comment


      • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

        Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
        No... 2 Peter 3 spells it out for you. The example of Noah shows ALL of mankind will be judged, not a part of mankind.
        No it shows part being judged just like the sister example of Lot.

        Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
        Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
        Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
        Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
        Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


        In neither example did all of humanity die except one family. Both speak of a localized judgement where everyone died except one family.

        Originally posted by Slug1 View Post

        How did the giants get on the earth before the flood?
        How were they still alive after the flood is the question.

        Originally posted by hawkman View Post
        Did you know there are flood stories from many other cultures ? They are in a lot of cases very similar to the Bible . Wonder why ?


        http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html
        Who cares about stories? The important thing is those cultures were not destroyed by Noah's flood because that flood was not global.
        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

        Comment


        • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
          No it shows part being judged just like the sister example of Lot.

          Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
          Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
          Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
          Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
          Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
          2 Peter 3 is in relation to Noah and how ALL of the earth was judged, cept for those deemed righteous. If we want to discuss Luke, then we have another topic.


          In neither example did all of humanity die except one family. Both speak of a localized judgement where everyone died except one family.
          Thus why Peter was inspired to teach something else concerning ALL unrighteousness will be judged, not some who are unrighteous.


          How were they still alive after the flood is the question.
          The same way they were alive before the flood Thus my question, an answer to my question will answer your challenge. Let me lay a clue, were the giants created or procreated?
          --
          Slug1--out

          ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

          Comment


          • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

            Originally posted by randyk View Post
            No, do you think that because what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah only affected a small portion of the planet that only a small portion of the planet will be judged?
            Hmmm, Peter is inspired by the Holy Spirit to use the flood and you keep trying to use Sodom and Gomorrah. This is turning into an apple conversation and you keep talking about oranges.

            Yes, S/G was localized, thus WHY Peter was not led to use that as an example.
            --
            Slug1--out

            ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

            Comment


            • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              No, I didn't plus you avoided addressing the content of my post.
              Didn't I underline your statement? I just went back and looked at post number #117, I DID underline what you stated.

              Based on the underlined part, the point (context) of your post is that "if everything was killed." My question is about you looking at the scriptures and verify if the account in Genesis DOES say, everything was killed?

              Does the Genesis account that "everything" is killed?
              --
              Slug1--out

              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

              Comment


              • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                Originally Posted by ewq1938

                Just showing you how the author of scripture uses figures of speech.

                There is no figure of speech in the Genesis account though. All the earth UNDER heaven is not a figure of speech. The scripture is about specificity of what part of the earth is covered.

                All it means is the mountains under the sky, the visible area of the world and sky Noah lived in.


                Is this your interpretation?



                The point is that the Chinese and Egyptians would have been wiped out if the flood was literally global. The fact that the flood did not kill them proves it wasn't global.



                "for pyramids could never withstand a worldwide flood."

                lol, what? They couldn't survive 5 months of being under water? Nonsense.


                All this is based on one side of chronology, which is debatable.



                The only issue here is misinterpreting the flood to have been global rather than localized just like the example of Lot the NT uses alongside the example of Noah


                Umm... Peter didn't put both examples in his lesson. You and others are however, thus leading AWAY from what Peter was teaching and making an attempt to teach something different than what he was led to teach.

                ...same basic thing will happen the day Christ returns. Global death of all unbelievers? Nope. Localized death especially at Armageddon. That's where the armies will be, so that's where most death's occur.


                Again... this is not an example of JUDGEMENT depicted in the lesson Peter gives us through the example of Noah. Jesus isn't any final judging at all when He returns, He punishing. All those He kills when He returns, will STILL be judged later.
                --
                Slug1--out

                ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                Comment


                • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                  Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                  Hmmm, Peter is inspired by the Holy Spirit to use the flood and you keep trying to use Sodom and Gomorrah. This is turning into an apple conversation and you keep talking about oranges.

                  Yes, S/G was localized, thus WHY Peter was not led to use that as an example.
                  No, Jesus used *both* S&G and the Flood to depict the threat of divine judgment in the endtimes. What happened to S&G was *not* universal, and yet was applied in reference to an endtimes judgment. So also, the Flood was *not* universal, and yet was applied in reference to an endtimes judgment.

                  Luke 17.27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.
                  28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

                  2 Pet 3.5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.


                  The world that was destroyed, and the earth reserved for fire, is the part of the earth that will suffer the judgment of God at the 2nd Coming, when divine fire rains down on the system of the Beast, which is *not* universal. The Beast Kingdom will have global impact, and its judgment will therefore be global. But we are *not* talking about the annihilation of the earth, but rather, about the change in ownership of the earth, by the complete removal of control over the earth by evil men.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                    Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                    2 Peter 3 is in relation to Noah and how ALL of the earth was judged, cept for those deemed righteous. If we want to discuss Luke, then we have another topic.
                    No, it's the same topic.


                    Thus why Peter was inspired to teach something else concerning ALL unrighteousness will be judged, not some who are unrighteous.
                    That passage is a long period of time not only the second coming.


                    The same way they were alive before the flood
                    Which disproves a global flood. If the flood was global then all the giants would be dead but many were still alive after the flood.
                    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                      Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                      Didn't I underline your statement? I just went back and looked at post number #117, I DID underline what you stated.

                      Based on the underlined part, the point (context) of your post is that "if everything was killed." My question is about you looking at the scriptures and verify if the account in Genesis DOES say, everything was killed?

                      Does the Genesis account that "everything" is killed?
                      No but that is your position and interpretation not mine. Mine is the flood wasn't global so many people survived because the flood was nowhere near them. Yours is the flood was global and everything died except what was on the Ark.
                      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                        Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                        There is no figure of speech in the Genesis account though.
                        Yet there is. The language used for the world etc is not speaking of the entire planet.


                        All the earth UNDER heaven is not a figure of speech.
                        Sure it is. Earth and Heaven are simply land and sky....that can easily be part of the world "all" the mountains in the land under the skies being covered by the flood.


                        Is this your interpretation?
                        Of course it is and it best matches what we know about an olive leaf surviving and some giants not drowning...because there were areas where the waters did not down olives trees of these giant people....not to mention the Chinese and Egyptian peoples.


                        Umm... Peter didn't put both examples in his lesson. You and others are however, thus leading AWAY from what Peter was teaching and making an attempt to teach something different than what he was led to teach.
                        All passages that deal with Noah and the flood are applicable here. Nor does Peter say anything different than other passages do.

                        Again... this is not an example of JUDGEMENT depicted in the lesson Peter gives us through the example of Noah. Jesus isn't any final judging at all when He returns, He punishing. All those He kills when He returns, will STILL be judged later.
                        And he doesn't kill every unsaved person just as the flood didn't, nor the fire in Lot's time. All are a localized killing of targeted people. Many people were not targeted to die in those examples.
                        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                          Which disproves a global flood. If the flood was global then all the giants would be dead but many were still alive after the flood.
                          This has me most interested. Again, were the giants before the flood created or procreated?
                          --
                          Slug1--out

                          ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                          Comment


                          • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                            Originally posted by randyk View Post
                            No, Jesus used *both* S&G and the Flood to depict the threat of divine judgment in the endtimes. What happened to S&G was *not* universal, and yet was applied in reference to an endtimes judgment. So also, the Flood was *not* universal, and yet was applied in reference to an endtimes judgment.

                            Luke 17.27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.
                            28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

                            2 Pet 3.5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.


                            The world that was destroyed, and the earth reserved for fire, is the part of the earth that will suffer the judgment of God at the 2nd Coming, when divine fire rains down on the system of the Beast, which is *not* universal. The Beast Kingdom will have global impact, and its judgment will therefore be global. But we are *not* talking about the annihilation of the earth, but rather, about the change in ownership of the earth, by the complete removal of control over the earth by evil men.
                            Concerning what Peter is led to teach in 2 Peter 3, would you like to start a thread devoted to the scriptures in 2 Peter? BTW... v10
                            --
                            Slug1--out

                            ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                            Comment


                            • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                              Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                              This has me most interested. Again, were the giants before the flood created or procreated?

                              Gen 6 is clear on that.
                              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Location: Garden of Eden

                                Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                                Gen 6 is clear on that.
                                Sometimes to get people to face honesty, is so difficult.

                                So, based on Gen 6, the answer is...

                                The giants were pro-created.

                                Will you agree?
                                --
                                Slug1--out

                                ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                                Comment

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