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  • #16
    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Originally posted by JohnE View Post

    God declared the end from the beginning. The whole age is 7000 years, which includes the Millennium.
    The bible never says the age is 7000 years.


    Heaven and earth pass away at the end of the age, the end of the Millennium.
    Not quite. The Mill ends then there is a little season of satan then the GWTJ...only after those two things will the NHNE happen.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

      Originally posted by JohnE View Post
      Matt 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

      Heaven and earth pass away at the end of the age, the end of the Millennium. You are right about that.
      You cut short that quote from Matt 24:35-36...,

      …. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.


      Heaven and earth pass away at his coming, not a thousand years after your millennium. They are all swept away at his coming is what Jesus said.
      And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

        Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
        The one and only promise of his coming achieves all that in one day.


        2pet 3
        10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
        11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.



        2Thess 1
        6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.
        The single coming theory has no merit whatsoever. Many have tried, but it doesn't work at all. Sorry.

        Btw, where is written that Peter had 100% understanding of all things? Didn't Jesus tell him plainly in Acts 1 that it isn't for them to know the times and seasons? Why then create end time doctrine from Peter's writing?

        2 Thess 1 is indeed coming soon. Then 2 Thess 2 will take place. Paul laid out at least two comings right there.

        For example:

        Habakkuk 3:3 God came from Teman, The Holy One from Mount Paran. Selah His glory covered the heavens, And the earth was full of His praise.

        Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

        These are direct opposite reactions to Jesus' coming. It's pretty obvious these are two separate times.

        Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
        The one and only promise of his coming achieves all that in one day.


        2pet 3
        10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
        11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.



        2Thess 1
        6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.
        The single coming theory has no merit whatsoever. Many have tried, but it doesn't work at all. Sorry.

        Btw, where is written that Peter had 100% understanding of all things? Didn't Jesus tell him plainly in Acts 1 that it isn't for them to know the times and seasons? Why then create end time doctrine from Peter's writing?

        2 Thess 1 is indeed coming soon. Then 2 Thess 2 will take place. Paul laid out at least two comings right there.

        For example:

        Habakkuk 3:3 God came from Teman, The Holy One from Mount Paran. Selah His glory covered the heavens, And the earth was full of His praise.

        Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

        These are direct opposite reactions to Jesus' coming. It's pretty obvious these are two separate times.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

          Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post


          Heaven and earth pass away at his coming, not a thousand years after your millennium.
          According to the only book that actually speaks of the thousand years directly, Revelation, the NHNE does not happen at the second coming. It is just over a thousand years after the second coming. Rev 19-21 show this.
          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

            Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
            You cut short that quote from Matt 24:35-36...,

            …. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.


            Heaven and earth pass away at his coming, not a thousand years after your millennium. They are all swept away at his coming is what Jesus said.
            No, you missed the transition to another subject. Jesus was asked three questions at the beginning of this discourse, not one.

            35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

            The subject changed.

            Also, don't forget the discourse continues in the next chapter. Jesus describes multiple comings, not one.

            Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
            You cut short that quote from Matt 24:35-36...,

            …. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.


            Heaven and earth pass away at his coming, not a thousand years after your millennium. They are all swept away at his coming is what Jesus said.
            No, you missed the transition to another subject. Jesus was asked three questions at the beginning of this discourse, not one.

            35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

            The subject changed.

            Also, don't forget the discourse continues in the next chapter. Jesus describes multiple comings, not one.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              The bible never says the age is 7000 years.
              It does indeed. It is written in a book the church decided to cast out in the fourth century. See Jubilees 4:29-30. Adam did indeed die ON the day he ate the fruit.

              Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning

              Not quite. The Mill ends then there is a little season of satan then the GWTJ...only after those two things will the NHNE happen.
              Satan's last season is at the end of the Millennium, not after it.

              Jesus describes the end of the age.
              Matt 13: 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.

              41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

              First, the angels gather the wicked and burn them. Then, the righteous are gather into His barn, which is in heaven, the kingdom of their Father. No one is left on the earth. Time for the new creation.

              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              The bible never says the age is 7000 years.
              It does indeed. It is written in a book the church decided to cast out in the fourth century. See Jubilees 4:29-30. Adam did indeed die ON the day he ate the fruit.

              Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning

              Not quite. The Mill ends then there is a little season of satan then the GWTJ...only after those two things will the NHNE happen.
              Satan's last season is at the end of the Millennium, not after it.

              Jesus describes the end of the age.
              Matt 13: 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.

              41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

              First, the angels gather the wicked and burn them. Then, the righteous are gather into His barn, which is in heaven, the kingdom of their Father. No one is left on the earth. Time for the new creation.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

                Originally posted by JohnE View Post
                No, you missed the transition to another subject. Jesus was asked three questions at the beginning of this discourse, not one.

                35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

                The subject changed.

                Also, don't forget the discourse continues in the next chapter. Jesus describes multiple comings, not one.



                No, you missed the transition to another subject. Jesus was asked three questions at the beginning of this discourse, not one.

                35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

                The subject changed.

                Also, don't forget the discourse continues in the next chapter. Jesus describes multiple comings, not one.
                Sorry but the subject didn't change. It was expanded upon by saying heaven and earth would pass away at his coming like Noahs day. In Noahs day the ungodly of the ancient world passed away.


                The coming of the Son surpasses what happened in Noahs day and will never be repeated a thousand years later.


                21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
                And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

                  Originally posted by JohnE View Post
                  It does indeed. It is written in a book the church decided to cast out in the fourth century. See Jubilees 4:29-30.
                  Not being in the bible means what that book says is not scripture.



                  Satan's last season is at the end of the Millennium, not after it.
                  The bible says it is after:

                  Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
                  Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
                  Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
                  Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
                  Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,




                  First, the angels gather the wicked and burn them. Then, the righteous are gather into His barn, which is in heaven, the kingdom of their Father. No one is left on the earth. Time for the new creation.
                  That's after the GWTJ not the second coming.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

                    Originally posted by JohnE View Post
                    Btw, where is written that Peter had 100% understanding of all things? Didn't Jesus tell him plainly in Acts 1 that it isn't for them to know the times and seasons? Why then create end time doctrine from Peter's writing?
                    Peter understood the connection between the promise of his coming and the inheritance of the NHNE.
                    Matt 25:31- , confirms it.

                    Matt 25
                    31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

                    34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

                    41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;



                    2Pet 3
                    13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
                    14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

                    17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
                    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

                      Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

                      Matt 25
                      31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

                      34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

                      41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

                      Hmmm, where in that passage is the resurrection of the dead? Where is Satan being released from the pit and the armies surrounding Jerusalem and where is the fire from God out of heaven that kills those armies? Where is the white throne of judgment?

                      Seems like that passage is missing a lot of details huh? It also is missing the thousand years, which would come inbetween verse 31 and 32. That's why it's misleading to use passages like this without also including what Rev says.
                      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

                        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                        Hmmm, where in that passage is the resurrection of the dead?

                        Reading between the lines dear Brother we must be resurrected and changed before we can inherit this promised kingdom of God from the foundation of the world.


                        Where is the white throne of judgment?

                        The GWT judgment is the opening of the books before one is thrown into the fire.... read between the lines once again.
                        And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

                          Originally Posted by ewq1938

                          Shame on those who shame people?

                          A great many survived Noah's flood because the flood didn't come anywhere near them. A great many survived the fire at Sodom because the fire didn't come anywhere near them. A great many will survive the second coming because only certain people are targeted to die ie: only the armies at Armageddon die...many people aren't part of the beast's army and aren't at Armageddon and therefore do survive and are reigned over by Christ.
                          6v7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
                          6v11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
                          6v13 And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
                          6v17 For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die.
                          7v4 For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.”
                          (let me add: every living thing - in Hebrew means, all existence)
                          7v21 And all flesh died that moved on the earth, birds, livestock, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm on the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life died. 23 He blotted out every living thing that was on the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens. They were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those who were with him in the ark.
                          (let me remind - every living thing in Hebrew means, all existence)

                          So please help me find in what God is teaching us that... a great many that exist on the earth, survived?
                          Slug1--out

                          ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                            The killing isn't going to be global. That's what we have been talking about.
                            Is God's judgement going to be global or not?
                            Slug1--out

                            ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

                              Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
                              Reading between the lines dear Brother we must be resurrected and changed before we can inherit this promised kingdom of God from the foundation of the world.
                              Well, the point is that passage is light on details...details Rev supplies such as the thousand years happening after the second coming but before the LOF judgment.
                              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

                                Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                                Is God's judgement going to be global or not?
                                It's far outside such limitations as "global".

                                Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
                                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                                Comment

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