Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How necessary Baptism?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post
    Then the demons will be saved? If we are saved at the point of belief, then the demons will be saved, James 2:19. No, belief is essential, but that belief must cause us to obey. Without obedience, our belief is dead and worthless, as it is with the demons.

    You are trying to say that the new person goes into the water and the same new person emerges. But that is not what Rom 6:1-7, and Col 2:9-15 say. They both say that the old man, the man lost in sin goes into the water, and the new, clean, saved person emerges.
    So you are teaching that Salvation takes place in the act of Water Baptism, and not before? If so, we certainly do have a major disagreement. I don't know a single person in my life who has gotten Water Baptized without committing to Christ beforehand! Why would an unbeliever get Water Baptized?

    Comment


    • Re: How necessary Baptism?

      Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post
      Not entirely correct. You only have half of the story in this passage. If you look over to Paul retelling the story in Acts 22, you see Paul sitting, blind and fasting, and waiting on word from God. God sends him Ananias. Ananias tells him, "Then he (Ananias) said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’"

      Paul was still in sin three days after the passage you cited. He was still lost and still had not called on Jesus Name. He called on Jesus, and was saved, when he was baptized, and washed away his sins at the same instant.
      No Water Baptism is not the thing that washes away sins. It ceremonially represents the expression of the heart intending to live a new life in Christ. It is the choice for Christ, in place of our own carnal life, that washes away our sins. The process of practicing this on a daily basis is usually called Sanctification, and it follows Salvation.

      Comment


      • Re: How necessary Baptism?

        Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post
        According to Romans 6, Acts 22, Col 2, and many other passages, it happened when they were buried with Christ in baptism to have their sins washed away, and to arise to a new life. NOT before.
        You're looking at these verses on their face, and not what they are actually saying. It is easy to be misled when we don't understand the full context. Water Baptism is symbolic of Spirit Baptism. John the Baptist said his own Water Baptism would be superseded by Christ's greater Baptism, which he called Spirit Baptism. Thus, Water Baptism in Christianity is a symbolic representation of Baptism into the Spirit of Christ. Water Baptism represents our being spiritually baptized into Christ.

        And yet you look back to the symbol and to the physical element of water and to the physical element of the body to think of this as a kind of physical removal of dirt from the body--something we were told Water Baptism was *not* meant to represent. Water Baptism, therefore, is not about the removal of bodily pollution by a physical act of water cleansing. Rather, it is all about the confession of our intention to live a new life, just as at the point of Salvation we gave our lives over to living in the Spirit of Christ.

        1 Peter 3.21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
        Col 2.20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.


        Originally posted by Doug Brents
        Their surrender to Jesus is evidenced by their immersion. This is not a difficult concept, it is simply obedience to God's command in Scripture. You can take bits and pieces of Scripture all day long and remain lost. Or you can take Scripture as a whole, accept every part of It, and come away saved through obedience to God.
        You're confusing 2 distinct things here--obedience to God and the observance of Water Baptism, which is meant to be a ritual depicting something greater than the ritual itself. The obedience of the 11 Apostles in going out and baptizing should not be confused with a universal command, supposedly given by God, that all Christians must be Water Baptized. I don't see that anywhere in the Scriptures!

        So the kind of obedience you're suggesting, namely Water Baptism, is not to be confused with the obedience that Christians practice after they have become Christians. Our obedience consists of following the commandments of Jesus, namely loving God and loving our neighbor.

        Water Baptism is free participation in an initiation ceremony into the Christian community, and constitutes a confession, publicly, of our new life in Christ. It is not the beginning of our new life, but the confession, initially, that this will be our practice from henceforth.

        Originally posted by Doug Brents
        Many people today go on and on about our relationship with Christ (and it is important), and whether or not WE know God. But the greater, more important, question is: "Does God know us?" Gal 4:9.
        It can't be more important for God to know us than for us to know God. Both are equally important. The one requires the other.

        1 John 4.19 We love because he first loved us.
        Jer 1.5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”


        As you can see, God loving us 1st necessarily leads into our loving Him. God knowing us 1st necessarily leads into our serving Him.

        Comment


        • Re: How necessary Baptism?

          Baptism is a gift right ?

          I think of Baptism as more of a renewal, Or perhaps a way for men who are filled with the Spirit of God to safely relinquish some of its power to others, who are seeking God to make a change in there lives.

          Sometimes it is hard to endure the things that the world contains and each of us under different circumstances.

          I think baptism for many was/is something tangible, a way to open themselves to the blessing of the Spirit when words alone would not open there hearts.

          Certainly a righteous deed that you should baptize others and treat them with a heart of blessings is it not ?

          I think that these days, because we are often baptized when we are young and then never again, perhaps is a bit off from the original practice.

          Comment


          • Re: How necessary Baptism?

            Originally posted by Ziggie View Post
            Baptism is a gift right ?

            I think of Baptism as more of a renewal, Or perhaps a way for men who are filled with the Spirit of God to safely relinquish some of its power to others, who are seeking God to make a change in there lives.

            Sometimes it is hard to endure the things that the world contains and each of us under different circumstances.

            I think baptism for many was/is something tangible, a way to open themselves to the blessing of the Spirit when words alone would not open there hearts.

            Certainly a righteous deed that you should baptize others and treat them with a heart of blessings is it not ?

            I think that these days, because we are often baptized when we are young and then never again, perhaps is a bit off from the original practice.
            I don't see Water Baptism as a "good deed," but rather, as a free indulgence in an initiation ceremony into Christianity. It is public testimony announcing to the world that you are henceforth living for Christ.

            I do not see it as a form of magical ritual, absorbing the Spirit of God as if by incantation. It is submitting to a ceremony that physically depicts, by symbolism, the change we have already initiated and intend to live out. We are dead to our old ways, and alive to the new life in Christ.

            Comment


            • Re: How necessary Baptism?

              Originally posted by randyk View Post
              I don't see Water Baptism as a "good deed," but rather, as a free indulgence in an initiation ceremony into Christianity. It is public testimony announcing to the world that you are henceforth living for Christ.

              I do not see it as a form of magical ritual, absorbing the Spirit of God as if by incantation. It is submitting to a ceremony that physically depicts, by symbolism, the change we have already initiated and intend to live out. We are dead to our old ways, and alive to the new life in Christ.
              I see. I did notice that as well from your other posts.
              So you believe that there is no interaction with the Spirit during a baptism ?

              Comment


              • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post
                Not entirely correct. You only have half of the story in this passage. If you look over to Paul retelling the story in Acts 22, you see Paul sitting, blind and fasting, and waiting on word from God. God sends him Ananias. Ananias tells him, "Then he (Ananias) said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’"

                Paul was still in sin three days after the passage you cited. He was still lost and still had not called on Jesus Name. He called on Jesus, and was saved, when he was baptized, and washed away his sins at the same instant.
                There is more to the story then

                Lets step back a step then. When a person hears the Gospel and then this person calls Jesus, "Lord" is this or is this not due to belief in Jesus Christ?
                --
                Slug1--out

                ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                ~John 6:62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?~ (Jesus is Eternal - existed before becoming a man)

                Comment


                • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                  I'll be brief in this but here are several high level level points to make note of.

                  1. Every person under NT law was baptized into Christ, and it was an immediate action... never a delay. I know of no one under NT law that this is not the case, there is no example of anyone ever delaying the act or a statement that it is a sign of something that happened inward... if so in Acts 8:26-ff who was he showing this to? Its not like a congregation got to see this action and his only witness disappears shortly after the act...

                  2. Baptism is a word that simply means immersion. So its an act that is to symbolize Death, Burial, Resurrection and we are made a new creature. Rom 6 it was never meant to be pouring, sprinkling, or anything else... all examples in NT scripture are all immersion. Is this important I don't know I am not judge, however I do want to point out per scripture if you are talking about baptism this is the only one mentioned in scripture. The other methods came later our of need or medical reasons... but are not found in NT passages.

                  3. Per scripture it is something that washes away sins. Its nothing in the water, its not the work but faith. 1st Peter 3:20-21 "To those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God." I kind of think of it like its our first step of faith, its silly doesn't make sense but as stated here in this passage its not like taking a bath or anything like that its your first act of faith in God a pledge of a clear conscience toward God. Per scripture Jesus has the ability to forgive sins and remove sins while here, however after his return to Heaven various passages not that Baptism is the point of the removal of sin. They are throughout the thread but Acts 2:37-38, Acts 22:16, 1st Peter 3:20-21, etc... Now does this mean if Bobby believes and wants to be baptized and is killed on his way to the water hes lost forever.... Seriously... God is Judge and in control so this is just a silly question for a lot of reasons.

                  5. Does Water Baptism Save you? No... but wait earlier I said and various passages says it does... correct however if I just get wet and dunk in the water this does not make me saved. As noted earlier you can't take an unbeliever baptism then and poof well there you go... No its the blood of Christ that saves us. Its faith, Heb 11:6 without faith its impossible to please him... but it has to be an active faith. James 2:18-ff even devils and demons believe... our faith should cause works. Are we saved by works.... No... our works are as filthy rags Isa 64:6. However, as James stated our work should produce fruit it should be an active faith. You can just say I believe and do nothing about it.

                  So in a nut shell if you believe in God, you aim to please God. You want to be a Christian you want to do whats right, etc... why wouldn't you be baptized? Why would you even say it isn't necessary? Why? Its obviously important, Jesus taught it, his apostles taught it. It was the Great commission for crying out loud... what was the disciples jobs? Matt 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"

                  So Wow we are supposed to be baptizing its part of all of our jobs as Christians... to those who don't do it, preach it, or practice it... what Bible are you reading? If you do the sinners prayer, or ask Jesus into your heart, etc.. insert method of obeying the gospel here... let me ask this... where can I find this method in scripture... if you can't find it, it isn't taught, you don't see an example of it, then why are you doing it? Are you following Jesus or someone else? As for me I'll stick to scripture.
                  Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

                  I use Linux because I don't like Windows

                  Comment


                  • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                    Originally posted by Ziggie View Post
                    I see. I did notice that as well from your other posts.
                    So you believe that there is no interaction with the Spirit during a baptism ?
                    I believe that following Salvation we are to do *everything* in the Spirit of Christ, including Water Baptism. Water Baptism is not a special kind of ritual or incantation that acquires a special "anointing," or a mystical change, no.

                    Comment


                    • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                      Originally posted by uric3 View Post
                      I'll be brief in this but here are several high level level points to make note of.

                      1. Every person under NT law was baptized into Christ, and it was an immediate action... never a delay. I know of no one under NT law that this is not the case, there is no example of anyone ever delaying the act or a statement that it is a sign of something that happened inward... if so in Acts 8:26-ff who was he showing this to? Its not like a congregation got to see this action and his only witness disappears shortly after the act...
                      The Apostles were commanded to minister water baptism as they preached the Gospel. Once somebody got Saved they were to Water Baptize the converts. Paul was an apostle and was not one of the 12, and so, by contrast he did not regularly engage in Water Baptism personally.

                      The Eunuch did not have a Christian ministry to support him in Ethiopia, and likely wanted to make his declaration immediately to Philip. Any arguments you're making about these various baptismal events must have a doctrinal basis in order to view them as any kind of "Christian law." And you don't provide that.

                      Originally posted by uric
                      2. Baptism is a word that simply means immersion. So its an act that is to symbolize Death, Burial, Resurrection and we are made a new creature. Rom 6 it was never meant to be pouring, sprinkling, or anything else... all examples in NT scripture are all immersion. Is this important I don't know I am not judge, however I do want to point out per scripture if you are talking about baptism this is the only one mentioned in scripture. The other methods came later our of need or medical reasons... but are not found in NT passages.
                      Of course immersion is what Water Baptism was! John the Baptist dunked people in the River Jordan, depicting their death, as by the Flood of Noah. We are guilty of sin and deserve to die. But by the grace of God we are forgiven and are raised back up to live in obedience to God's word.

                      The ritual is not magic. It is purely a confession. It is best depicted by immersion, but the same confession can be made by the mouth or by sprinkling. In my view, it doesn't matter. There is no explicit biblical doctrine to say otherwise, and that's what matters.

                      Originally posted by uric
                      3. Per scripture it is something that washes away sins. Its nothing in the water, its not the work but faith. 1st Peter 3:20-21 "To those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God." I kind of think of it like its our first step of faith, its silly doesn't make sense but as stated here in this passage its not like taking a bath or anything like that its your first act of faith in God a pledge of a clear conscience toward God. Per scripture Jesus has the ability to forgive sins and remove sins while here, however after his return to Heaven various passages not that Baptism is the point of the removal of sin. They are throughout the thread but Acts 2:37-38, Acts 22:16, 1st Peter 3:20-21, etc... Now does this mean if Bobby believes and wants to be baptized and is killed on his way to the water hes lost forever.... Seriously... God is Judge and in control so this is just a silly question for a lot of reasons.
                      Yes, the Bible does not teach that Water Baptism is a necessary part of Christian worship. Nor does it say that Water Baptism somehow magically regenerates us, or anoints us with the Holy Spirit. What anoints us with the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit Himself, who gives us a deposit of Himself when we embrace His Salvation at conversion.

                      Originally posted by uric
                      5. Does Water Baptism Save you? No... but wait earlier I said and various passages says it does... correct however if I just get wet and dunk in the water this does not make me saved. As noted earlier you can't take an unbeliever baptism then and poof well there you go... No its the blood of Christ that saves us. Its faith, Heb 11:6 without faith its impossible to please him... but it has to be an active faith. James 2:18-ff even devils and demons believe... our faith should cause works. Are we saved by works.... No... our works are as filthy rags Isa 64:6. However, as James stated our work should produce fruit it should be an active faith. You can just say I believe and do nothing about it.
                      Water Baptism is not Christian works, as in the production of the fruit of the Spirit. It is just an act of faith in demonstrating, through ritual, our willingness to be initiated into the Christian community and removed from the pagan community. A true Christian work is something like an act of charity, or performing in ministry. Engaging in Water Baptism is just a part of our initial Christian confession, and as such is more a confession than a work.

                      Originally posted by uric
                      So in a nut shell if you believe in God, you aim to please God. You want to be a Christian you want to do whats right, etc... why wouldn't you be baptized? Why would you even say it isn't necessary? Why? Its obviously important, Jesus taught it, his apostles taught it. It was the Great commission for crying out loud... what was the disciples jobs? Matt 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
                      I would say Water Baptism is not so much "unimportant" as "nonessential." And I would say it because the Scriptures do not explicitly make it essential to the Christian life. Its importance is largely at the beginning of our Christian life in order to make a public confession.

                      Why on earth would a child raised up from birth in the Christian Faith have to be Water Baptized? And yet most denominations do regardless, just to cover all bases. When we're raised in the Christian Faith we don't have to convert from paganism to Christianity since we're already Christians! The assumption is often made that even those raised up in Christian families cannot possibly be real Christians. But that's false, and actually, it's quite slanderous.

                      Originally posted by uric
                      So Wow we are supposed to be baptizing its part of all of our jobs as Christians... to those who don't do it, preach it, or practice it... what Bible are you reading? If you do the sinners prayer, or ask Jesus into your heart, etc.. insert method of obeying the gospel here... let me ask this... where can I find this method in scripture... if you can't find it, it isn't taught, you don't see an example of it, then why are you doing it? Are you following Jesus or someone else? As for me I'll stick to scripture.
                      I'll stick to Scripture too, and yet you're not! Where in the Scriptures are Christians raised in the Faith required to be Water Baptized? Where in the Scriptures are we told that all new Christians *must* be Water Baptized? As far as I can see, the ministry of Water Baptism was given to the 11 apostles after Jesus' resurrection. Where in the Scriptures are *all* Christian ministers told to Water Baptize? And where in the Scriptures are all Christians told to submit to Water Baptism upon conversion?

                      In reality, the Scriptures make Spirit Baptism, or Christian Conversion, the essential matter, over Water Baptism. Still, Christ did mandate the ministry of Water Baptism to his 11 Apostles in their time. Nothing that I know of requires this ritual in perpetuity in other Christian ministries.

                      My own view is that Jesus' emphasis on Water Baptism was not emphasis on the ritual itself, but rather, on what it represented, namely Spirit Baptism.

                      Comment


                      • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                        I'll stick to Scripture too, and yet you're not! - please explain how am I not sticking to scripture?


                        Where in the Scriptures are Christians raised in the Faith required to be Water Baptized? - Where in scripture is it not? I see Ananias who was not an apostle baptize Paul, also in 1st Cor Paul noted all those who were baptized by various people, so it was something done by not only the apostles but all disciples. Granted we go through the NT there isn't a lot of 2nd Generation or family faith examples in scripture. However, I will say that it was a household affair and was commanded by Peter in Acts 10. I am not trying to set a Christian Law I am just stating whats in scripture and what isn't... so everyone in the NT is baptized that we have a conversion recorded... can you show me one that doesn't?

                        Where in the Scriptures are we told that all new Christians *must* be Water Baptized? - Several passages note its a part of salvation, 2nd Peter 3:20-21, Mark 16:15-16, and various other passages. Seems important if salvation is tied to it... also its where we get the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:37-38 along with other passages note that we get the Holy Spirit much different than spiritual gift. So the gift everyone gets is, the Holy Spirit interceding in our prayers with murmurings we can understand, sealing us as children of God, etc.. Where as the acts of speaking in tounges and other things of that nature was given by laying on of hands... the gifts were to signify that what was being taught was legit and used to bring about the written word.

                        As far as I can see, the ministry of Water Baptism was given to the 11 apostles after Jesus's resurrection. Where in the Scriptures are *all* Christian ministers told to Water Baptize? And where in the Scriptures are all Christians told to submit to Water Baptism upon conversion? - You are correct that in scripture the great commission is given to the apostles but as noted earlier we see several examples of people who aren't apostles baptizing and teaching the same conversion methods... if they didn't do that or there is an example of a child of a believing parent wasn't baptized please provide examples.... once again not a single conversion in the NT under NT law that is recorded that it didn't happen. You're only oddity was Acts 10 with the house of Cornelius which Peter was to be shown along with other Jews Present that Gentiles could be saved... after the event Peter commanded that the house of Cornelius be baptized and who could forbid them. Acts 10:47 point being until God showed them Gentiles could be saved they would have forbid it. Then Acts 11 is them recounting to let other Jews know that Gentiles could be saved as well, which was slowly revealed by the Holy Spirit 10 years or so after the resurrection.

                        In reality, the Scriptures make Spirit Baptism, or Christian Conversion, the essential matter, over Water Baptism. Still, Christ did mandate the ministry of Water Baptism to his 11 Apostles in their time. Nothing that I know of requires this ritual in perpetuity in other Christian ministries. My own view is that Jesus' emphasis on Water Baptism was not emphasis on the ritual itself, but rather, on what it represented, namely Spirit Baptism. - My view is water baptism is something in our control and anyone can do upon believe. Spiritual Baptism as in the gift of the Holy Spirit comes with that Baptism as noted in Acts. However Baptism of the Holy Spirit such as those given by the apostles are gone it was something that couldn't be controlled by people. We see in Acts 8 that a lot of people believed and were baptized but none of them got the Holy Spirit(So are you telling me none of these people were saved because of something out of their control?) We see that they send Aposltes down to lay hands so they can get this special baptism of the Holy Spirit and Simon tries to buy it... but other than the recording of the the Apostles receiving it in Acts 2 as Jesus promised them and Acts 10 the House of Cornelius there is no other recording of anyone getting the baptism of the holy spirit without laying on of hands. Oddly enough Peter points this out in Acts 10 which is about 30 years after Acts 2... in verse 15 of Acts 11 "“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning." notice he didn't say they got the Holy Spirit like everyone else or every believing Jew... nope it happened like when... the beginning... so he has to go back to Acts 2 to find something comparable... as noted earlier God did this solely to prove to Peter and the Jews present that Gentiles could be saved... then Peter noted that they had to have water baptism as he commanded it in verse 47. Seems odd to command something that is just a sign of being saved or that isn't needed...
                        Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

                        I use Linux because I don't like Windows

                        Comment


                        • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                          Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post
                          That is a question. If the end result of your belief structure is an impossibility, then there is a fault in your belief structure. Thus, if belief is all that is required for salvation, and Scripture says the demons believe in God, then the demons will be saved too. But we know that the demons won't be saved. Thus belief cannot be all that is required. We must turn back to Scripture and find what else is required. And I have demonstrated those things at length in other threads. Belief, Repentance, Confession of the Name of Christ, and Baptism. Then our walk with Christ can begin and we can begin to conform to His likeness.
                          You are close. The order though is interesting.
                          Do we believe and then repent, or repent and then believe?
                          Can we truly believe in something without repentance, yet what leads to the repentance in the first place, if we have no belief?
                          I see scripture points to the Holy Spirit convicting us of sin, which causes us to repent, and then we believe.
                          This is why belief alone is NOT enough and (at least one reason) why demons are not saved.
                          The process starts with what God is doing by the Holy Spirit, moves on to a response from ourselves of repentance, which then leads God to bring us to belief.
                          Repentance itself requires acknowledgement (knowledge is not the same as belief, though they are connected) that Jesus Christ is Lord and is able to cleanse us, and so we make confession of His Name at the time of repentance.
                          Baptism though is simply an immersion IN Him.
                          It is NOT about water, though water may symbolise this immersion to BOTH ourselves and the world.
                          We John the Baptist, baptism in water symbolised repentance, for they did NOT have repentance in Jesus. This is why Acts 19:4 notes about that baptism, which was to be a witness for the people to then believe in the One who was (at that time) to come. In Acts 8 we have the note that people were not baptised in the Holy Spirit, though they had been baptised in water in Jesus Name. They did NOT have the FULL immersion (baptism) that Jesus told His disciples they should do.

                          Water Baptism therefore is NOT of any significance for salvation, but does have significance for witnessing the truth of repentance and of Jesus.

                          Comment


                          • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                            Originally posted by uric3 View Post
                            In reality, the Scriptures make Spirit Baptism, or Christian Conversion, the essential matter, over Water Baptism. Still, Christ did mandate the ministry of Water Baptism to his 11 Apostles in their time.
                            Actually Jesus did NOT mandate Water Baptism as any form of requirement. Please actually find the scripture which supposedly mandates this.
                            Jesus mandated that the disciples and those who followed be immersed (baptised) in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but this was NOT about a Water Baptism, but about a COMPLETE relationship with God. So those who baptised in water in Jesus Name, did NOT follow this command as we read in Acts 8, and so Peter and John went to Samaria, following up after Philip, who had been focused on water baptism for repentance in Jesus' name, but had NOT baptised them into the Holy Spirit (the assumption is they knew about the Father). So Peter and John lay hands on them and they receive the Holy Spirit, so the full command of being immersed in God is then being carried out.

                            Comment


                            • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                              Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                              Actually Jesus did NOT mandate Water Baptism as any form of requirement. Please actually find the scripture which supposedly mandates this.
                              Jesus mandated that the disciples and those who followed be immersed (baptised) in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but this was NOT about a Water Baptism, but about a COMPLETE relationship with God. So those who baptised in water in Jesus Name, did NOT follow this command as we read in Acts 8, and so Peter and John went to Samaria, following up after Philip, who had been focused on water baptism for repentance in Jesus' name, but had NOT baptised them into the Holy Spirit (the assumption is they knew about the Father). So Peter and John lay hands on them and they receive the Holy Spirit, so the full command of being immersed in God is then being carried out.
                              Agreed that was from randyk earlier... the - is where I started to respond to that... I should have formatted it better or quoted so my bad. So if you read from the - on that is my response to that.
                              Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

                              I use Linux because I don't like Windows

                              Comment


                              • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                                Originally posted by randyk View Post
                                No Water Baptism is not the thing that washes away sins. It ceremonially represents the expression of the heart intending to live a new life in Christ. It is the choice for Christ, in place of our own carnal life, that washes away our sins. The process of practicing this on a daily basis is usually called Sanctification, and it follows Salvation.
                                No, Water Baptism is not what washes our sins away, Jesus' Blood is, but when we are buried in the water of baptism is when we come into contact with the Blood (Col 2:12).

                                Originally posted by randyk View Post
                                No Water Baptism is not the thing that washes away sins. It ceremonially represents the expression of the heart intending to live a new life in Christ. It is the choice for Christ, in place of our own carnal life, that washes away our sins. The process of practicing this on a daily basis is usually called Sanctification, and it follows Salvation.
                                No, Water Baptism is not what washes our sins away, Jesus' Blood is, but when we are buried in the water of baptism is when we come into contact with the Blood (Col 2:12).

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X