Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How necessary Baptism?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
    Hahaha
    Care to cite where it is stated in scripture that "the blood" is poured on a believer when he undertakes water baptism? Do you see how you read the Bible without actually taking in what it says but instead, run with what you think it says?
    Rom 6:3-6 - "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin."

    Col 2:11-14 - In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

    It is in baptism that we die to sin and the old man is done away, to arise from the water a new creation. Through our faith in Christ, God circumcises sin from us when we enter the water, and raises us from the dead in likeness of Jesus' resurrection as we arise from the water.

    Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
    Hahaha
    Care to cite where it is stated in scripture that "the blood" is poured on a believer when he undertakes water baptism? Do you see how you read the Bible without actually taking in what it says but instead, run with what you think it says?
    Rom 6:3-6 - "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin."

    Col 2:11-14 - In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

    It is in baptism that we die to sin and the old man is done away, to arise from the water a new creation. Through our faith in Christ, God circumcises sin from us when we enter the water, and raises us from the dead in likeness of Jesus' resurrection as we arise from the water.

    Comment


    • Re: How necessary Baptism?

      Originally posted by randyk View Post
      As committed Christians we can have very sensitive consciences. So we should be careful when we claim that certain activities, traditions, and rituals *must* be a part of our Christian lives! Legalism can bring us into false condemnation, into self-condemnation.
      You are so right about this. I am working on being more confidant about my beliefs and not allowing the subtle deceit of the enemy to trip me up.

      Comment


      • Re: How necessary Baptism?

        Originally posted by Deade View Post
        The first thing I did after being saved, once the Holy Spirit started talking with me, was to make plans for my baptism. I asked God to give me the gift of tongues. He said He would if I did it His way.

        I believed I was saved from the time God started talking to me. I was sealed by the HS at that time, even though I didnít realize it.

        The HS guided me all the way through this process. I didn't think I had any options other than to obey.

        My journey led me through three different baptisms. By the time I finished being rebaptized, I was speaking in tongues as God had promised.

        My conclusion: Baptism is pretty important. I rest my case.
        I know that God loves me, so I am going to trust Him to show me what I need to do to please Him in every area of my life. God bless you!

        Comment


        • Re: How necessary Baptism?

          Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post
          Rom 6:3-6 - "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin."

          Col 2:11-14 - In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

          It is in baptism that we die to sin and the old man is done away, to arise from the water a new creation. Through our faith in Christ, God circumcises sin from us when we enter the water, and raises us from the dead in likeness of Jesus' resurrection as we arise from the water.
          I'm not being disrespectful in any way, but I'm constrained to say it is one thing read or quote scripture and another to, understand and apply it appropriate to the discourse in hand.

          My point is that contrary to your claim that "blood" is poured on the one who undertakes water baptism, neither of the passages you cited here says so. IOW, they are irrelevant to your claim. That we die and rise to a new life is not in doubt.

          Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post
          Rom 6:3-6 - "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin."

          Col 2:11-14 - In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

          It is in baptism that we die to sin and the old man is done away, to arise from the water a new creation. Through our faith in Christ, God circumcises sin from us when we enter the water, and raises us from the dead in likeness of Jesus' resurrection as we arise from the water.
          I'm not being disrespectful in any way, but I'm constrained to say it is one thing read or quote scripture and another to, understand and apply it appropriate to the discourse in hand.

          My point is that contrary to your claim that "blood" is poured on the one who undertakes water baptism, neither of the passages you cited here says so. IOW, they are irrelevant to your claim. That we die and rise to a new life is not in doubt.

          Comment


          • Re: How necessary Baptism?

            Originally posted by DeeDee50 View Post
            You are so right about this. I am working on being more confidant about my beliefs and not allowing the subtle deceit of the enemy to trip me up.
            Rom 14.12 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

            Sometimes we do need to strengthen ourselves in Grace. Part of this involves shielding yourself from attacks of the enemy. I always check first to ensure my heart is right, that I'm receptive to instruction. And then I utilize discernment to know if someone has a bad spirit and is trying to manipulate me into following them.

            Comment


            • Re: How necessary Baptism?

              Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post
              Let's see:
              Physical baptism:
              Eph 4:5
              Out of your list, this one you place under physical:

              Here's the verse:

              5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


              Simple question, is this "one baptism" referring to the physical baptism that man does in water then?

              Or, is this "one baptism" referring to the "indwelling" of Christ, sealing of the Holy Spirit, when a person believes unto Christ?
              --
              Slug1--out

              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

              ~John 6:62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?~ (Jesus is Eternal - existed before becoming a man)

              Comment


              • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                Out of your list, this one you place under physical:

                Here's the verse:

                5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


                Simple question, is this "one baptism" referring to the physical baptism that man does in water then?

                Or, is this "one baptism" referring to the "indwelling" of Christ, sealing of the Holy Spirit, when a person believes unto Christ?
                Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

                1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

                Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                Out of your list, this one you place under physical:

                Here's the verse:

                5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


                Simple question, is this "one baptism" referring to the physical baptism that man does in water then?

                Or, is this "one baptism" referring to the "indwelling" of Christ, sealing of the Holy Spirit, when a person believes unto Christ?
                Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

                1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
                Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

                Comment


                • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                  Originally posted by mailmandan View Post
                  Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

                  1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

                  Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

                  1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
                  Agreed. Doesn't seem *physical baptism,* or *water baptism,* belongs in the list in the reference to Eph 4. And that's the argument here. If *spiritual baptism* is the central baptism, then water baptism is purely superficial, though important. Its importance consists of enabling the confessor to express what has *already happened to him or her spiritually.* The "one baptism" is the *spiritual baptism,* in my opinion.

                  Comment


                  • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                    I was baptized at 6... lived like hell till 27..then I was baptized at 40. Why the delay between 27 ( when I was born again ) and 40 ? Confusion. Pride. Ignorance. I finally said I didn't care what anyone thought.

                    Comment


                    • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                      I knew what God laid on my heart to do , and that was to be baptized as a follower of Christ. I did, and looking back, I'm so glad I did. I would hate for anyone to be robbed of identifying with Christ AS A BELIEVER, due to pride, ignorance, confusion, or fear.

                      Comment


                      • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                        Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                        I'm not being disrespectful in any way, but I'm constrained to say it is one thing read or quote scripture and another to, understand and apply it appropriate to the discourse in hand.

                        My point is that contrary to your claim that "blood" is poured on the one who undertakes water baptism, neither of the passages you cited here says so. IOW, they are irrelevant to your claim. That we die and rise to a new life is not in doubt.
                        Then please tell me what you think those passages are referring to, if not baptism in context with salvation.

                        Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                        I'm not being disrespectful in any way, but I'm constrained to say it is one thing read or quote scripture and another to, understand and apply it appropriate to the discourse in hand.

                        My point is that contrary to your claim that "blood" is poured on the one who undertakes water baptism, neither of the passages you cited here says so. IOW, they are irrelevant to your claim. That we die and rise to a new life is not in doubt.
                        Then please tell me what you think those passages are referring to, if not baptism in context with salvation.

                        Comment


                        • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                          Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                          Out of your list, this one you place under physical:

                          Here's the verse:

                          5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


                          Simple question, is this "one baptism" referring to the physical baptism that man does in water then?

                          Or, is this "one baptism" referring to the "indwelling" of Christ, sealing of the Holy Spirit, when a person believes unto Christ?
                          As referenced in many places, the Spirit of God does the work when we are immersed in water. The examples in the first century are not just anecdotal funnies that make up a good story for readers. They are there for us to get a full picture of how God deals with us under the NT as opposed to how He dealt with the people under the OT or during the time of the Patriarchs. Every salvation story includes the baptism of the new believer. And several give us the timeline of when things happen, like Saul's conversion in Acts 22. The Spirit does come to indwell us and seal us to Christ, and Acts 2 tells us when that happens.
                          "Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
                          We receive the Spirit when we are baptized in the Name of Jesus, because our sins are remitted (washed away) in that process.

                          Comment


                          • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                            Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post
                            As referenced in many places, the Spirit of God does the work when we are immersed in water. The examples in the first century are not just anecdotal funnies that make up a good story for readers. They are there for us to get a full picture of how God deals with us under the NT as opposed to how He dealt with the people under the OT or during the time of the Patriarchs. Every salvation story includes the baptism of the new believer. And several give us the timeline of when things happen, like Saul's conversion in Acts 22. The Spirit does come to indwell us and seal us to Christ, and Acts 2 tells us when that happens.
                            "Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
                            We receive the Spirit when we are baptized in the Name of Jesus, because our sins are remitted (washed away) in that process.
                            In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

                            *Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

                            In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

                            *So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

                            In regards to Acts 22:16, Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ. The language in Acts 22:16 is similar to the statement of Christ when He took the bread and said, "This is my body" (Matthew 26:26). The bread was only the emblem of His body. Baptism is the emblem of the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ. Every time a believer is immersed he washes away his sins in the same SENSE Paul did: not literally, but ceremonially, pointing to the blood of Christ by which sins are actually washed away. (1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5)

                            Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com...ntial-for.html
                            Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

                            Comment


                            • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                              Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post
                              As referenced in many places, the Spirit of God does the work when we are immersed in water. The examples in the first century are not just anecdotal funnies that make up a good story for readers. They are there for us to get a full picture of how God deals with us under the NT as opposed to how He dealt with the people under the OT or during the time of the Patriarchs. Every salvation story includes the baptism of the new believer. And several give us the timeline of when things happen, like Saul's conversion in Acts 22. The Spirit does come to indwell us and seal us to Christ, and Acts 2 tells us when that happens.
                              "Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
                              We receive the Spirit when we are baptized in the Name of Jesus, because our sins are remitted (washed away) in that process.
                              You place the work of salvation into the hands of mankind, so I have to disagree based on what scripture reveals. I encourage you to read through the words that Dan just posted and also, the study of Acts 22.

                              When a man repents, Jesus washes them clean, redeems them. Then they are allowed to be water baptized as a declaration of faith, as this good work represents the work that Jesus completed.
                              --
                              Slug1--out

                              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                              ~John 6:62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?~ (Jesus is Eternal - existed before becoming a man)

                              Comment


                              • Re: How necessary Baptism?

                                Originally posted by mailmandan View Post
                                In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

                                *Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

                                In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

                                *So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

                                In regards to Acts 22:16, Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ. The language in Acts 22:16 is similar to the statement of Christ when He took the bread and said, "This is my body" (Matthew 26:26). The bread was only the emblem of His body. Baptism is the emblem of the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ. Every time a believer is immersed he washes away his sins in the same SENSE Paul did: not literally, but ceremonially, pointing to the blood of Christ by which sins are actually washed away. (1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5)

                                Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com...ntial-for.html
                                Where do you get that "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to the preceding phrases? There is nothing in the language, original or translation, that indicates this is restrictive to the first half of the "and" conjunction. There is nothing parenthetical about Acts 2:38. There is nothing parenthetical about Jesus' command in Mark 16:16 either. "...He who believes and is baptized will be saved." Yes, Acts 3:19 says, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,..., but that does not exclude baptism. It merely does not mention baptism in this passage, just as Eph 2 and Col 2 are parallel passages, but Eph leaves out the mention of baptism while Col includes it.

                                Again, Cornelius and his family were not saved by the Spirit coming on them in fire and giving them tongues and other gifts. Just as is stated in Acts 11:17, and is reiterated in Acts 15:8, the message was not that salvation had come to that household, but that salvation was being offered to all Gentiles along with the Jews. To all who obey the Gospel.

                                If baptism is just an emblem of the washing away of sins, then Jesus wouldn't have commanded that those who are baptized will be saved. He would have told the Apostles that everyone who believes will be saved, and then you can baptize them later. But that is not what He commanded, is it?

                                I will say again, that the water does not wash away our sins. God does that when our obedient heart is buried with Christ in the water of baptism, and we arise from the water as a new creature. Col 2:12 says, "...buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him...". We are buried with Him in baptism, and are raised with Him in baptism by the working of the Spirit.

                                My point about Saul in Acts 22 is that all of you guys are saying that we are saved when we believe, before we do anything else (except maybe repent and confess Jesus' Name). But that cannot be the case because Saul was still in sin long after he believed. He believed on the road, when the light blinded him. But he was still in sin three days later. It doesn't take that long for the Spirit to forgive sin, does it? Saul had not been forgiven yet, even though he believed who Jesus was. He still needed to obey. He still needed to follow the command of God through the lips of Ananias to, "Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Is this just parenthetical too? Does "wash away your sins" only refer to "arise"? Were his sins washed away when he stood up, and then he was baptized to show that they had been washed away? No!

                                When harmonizing the Gospels, you cannot go into it with a preconception or expectation of what you believe, and then work the words around to fit your idea. You have to look at all Scripture with an open heart and let It reveal Itself. If you have any preconceptions, you will twist and bend Scripture to fit your preconception. No Scripture trumps other Scripture. If you take one passage and make it more important than other passages, say Eph 2:8-9, then you must twist other scriptures to fit your interpretation of that one passage. If you do so, you will condemn not only yourself, but everyone to whom you teach that falsehood.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X