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Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

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  • Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Here is self disclosure from God YHWH in which we can have full faith. It came through the Great Prophet Isaiah.

    "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

    I am sure that up there in God's abode there is no darkness. And He has lovingly placed darkness here on Earth for us. And, lovingly preordained the activities of Satan to force Evil upon helpless Mankind by casting Satan and his minions down to Earth, as into a Garbage Dump. Rather than casting Satan etal. far into outer space.

    Oh wait. The Earth is flat with a Domed Firmament. So, it was not possible for God to cast Satan etal. to any place other than Earth. Pity we live here, too. Collateral damage.

    I love God with all my heart, mind, soul, and strength. Not for what He does, but for who He is. Oh wait. We actually are to love God for what He does. He gave Jesus, He gave Scripture, He gave Kazarians today to usurp and impersonate Jews in Israel with their Godless Zionism, and He gave Godless and Corrupt America to support Modern Israel. He gave Catholicism to literally destroy The Waldensians and Cathars. And, He gave the Church today the Wisdom to say, "Without His gift of Evil specified in Isaiah 45:7 we cannot desperately need nor appreciate God's Salvation and Security in Christ."

  • #2
    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Originally posted by Jenkins View Post
    Here is self disclosure from God YHWH in which we can have full faith. It came through the Great Prophet Isaiah.

    "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
    I gather from your post that you are taking issue with this? I hope I am not mistaken as your post was somewhat vague.

    Since God created Hitler and Stalin and Dahmer this is no great mystery that the evil men were created by God and therefore the evil that they do was also ultimately his responsibility as well. However, this is a necessary criteria for man to have a free will. We could never know for sure that man had a free will unless some men rebelled against God. So then, the first rebellion against God was when Eve and Adam ate from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Once they did that their lives went from a potentially eternal being to mortal with a time limit of 120 years at most. Also, all that Hitler and his like can do is kill the body, they cannot harm the soul or the spirit.

    But this tree not only makes us mortal, putting a limit to the damage that any "evil" man can do to simply harming the flesh which is temporary and a vanity. When you compare a life that is 120 years at most to eternity, how does that compare to a bunch of pixels in a video game that only lasts for a few hours? So although all those who would choose to rebel against God are severely limited to only being able to harm the body which is but a wisp of smoke with a temporary existence, at the same time they can greatly help us to "know good and evil" and to learn such valuable lessons as how to form light and make peace.

    We are being trained to rule and reign with Christ. That is the goal of this age.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

      God is not evil--He only creates the potential for rebellion against Himself, to give free agents free choice. This is a good thing. It is a God thing. Once evil is in the universe God is able to construct the universe to reflect this cosmic rebellion. We may call it "evil," but it is only a scenario to indulge those who have chosen to *be* evil. Since God Himself is not evil, His only desire is to promote the good, as He sees it, and to direct the evil into a cage where it may no longer harm anybody, including the perpetrators.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

        Originally posted by randyk View Post
        God is not evil--He only creates the potential for rebellion against Himself, to give free agents free choice. This is a good thing. It is a God thing. Once evil is in the universe God is able to construct the universe to reflect this cosmic rebellion. We may call it "evil," but it is only a scenario to indulge those who have chosen to *be* evil. Since God Himself is not evil, His only desire is to promote the good, as He sees it, and to direct the evil into a cage where it may no longer harm anybody, including the perpetrators.
        Remember we were commanded not to eat the tree lest we die so God gave us a choice. We could have chosen to simply obey God, had we chosen to do that this world that we are in would never exist. However, God also tells us this is a good tree, one to make us wise knowing good and evil. It is not unlike the scientific method of running experiments. We chose to learn this lesson from experience and trial and error.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

          Originally posted by znpaaneah View Post
          Remember we were commanded not to eat the tree lest we die so God gave us a choice. We could have chosen to simply obey God, had we chosen to do that this world that we are in would never exist. However, God also tells us this is a good tree, one to make us wise knowing good and evil.
          Hi znpaaneah, where in the Bible does God tell our progenitors that the tree in the midst of the Garden, the one that He commanded them not to eat from, the one that He knows will cause their deaths if they do eat from it (both spiritually and physically), and the deaths of their entire progeny, as well, is a "good tree"?

          Also, when you say that had our first parents chosen differently in the Garden of God, "that this world we are in would never exist", what did you mean by that exactly?

          Thanks!

          ~Deut
          Matthew 5
          16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


          Matthew 7
          12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.


          1 Corinthians 13
          1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

          1 Peter 3
          15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

            Originally posted by znpaaneah View Post
            Since God created Hitler and Stalin and Dahmer this is no great mystery that the evil men were created by God and therefore the evil that they do was also ultimately his responsibility as well.
            Hi again znoaaneah, why do you believe that God is responsible for the evil that men do (because He's the One who gave us free will and chooses not to stop us from using it most of the time)? Or do you mean that He was more directly involved, that He actually and intentionally made men like Hitler, Stalin and Dahmer, "evil"

            Originally posted by znpaaneah View Post
            However, this is a necessary criteria for man to have a free will. We could never know for sure that man had a free will unless some men rebelled against God. So then, the first rebellion against God was when Eve and Adam ate from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Once they did that their lives went from a potentially eternal being to mortal with a time limit of 120 years at most. Also, all that Hitler and his like can do is kill the body, they cannot harm the soul or the spirit.
            I agree with you that at least the ability and freedom to sin/do evil (if we so desire) seems a necessary criteria for there to be free will.

            As for the 120 year age limit thing (for our fallen first parents), I think that you might be off by at least a couple of years or so .. see Genesis 5:5.

            Originally posted by znpaaneah View Post
            ...those who would choose to rebel against God are severely limited to only being able to harm the body...
            Are not those who rebel against God not only putting their bodies at risk, but their eternal souls as well .. e.g. Matthew 10:28?

            Thanks!

            --Deuteronomy
            Matthew 5
            16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


            Matthew 7
            12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.


            1 Corinthians 13
            1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

            1 Peter 3
            15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

              Deuteronomy Skaggs:
              Not being caustic, and I agree with your underlying message about "good tree" not being a "good tree" but the word of God prior to the commandment says every tree was good for food.

              Genesis 2:9 KJV
              And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

              Subsequent to this verse, we are commanded.

              Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
              And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: [17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

              Not certain what znpaaneah was trying to communicate, but I am quite fascinated with the original thread by Jenkins.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

                Originally posted by znpaaneah View Post
                Remember we were commanded not to eat the tree lest we die so God gave us a choice. We could have chosen to simply obey God, had we chosen to do that this world that we are in would never exist. However, God also tells us this is a good tree, one to make us wise knowing good and evil. It is not unlike the scientific method of running experiments. We chose to learn this lesson from experience and trial and error.
                I see nothing to indicate that the world we are in would never exist had we eaten of the tree of life. Makes no sense!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

                  Originally posted by Just A Few More Days View Post
                  Not being caustic, and I agree with your underlying message about "good tree" not being a "good tree" but the word of God prior to the commandment says every tree was good for food.
                  Caustic? No, you answered the question I asked (granted, it was a fairly protracted question), so thank you for that

                  --Deuteronomy
                  Matthew 5
                  16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


                  Matthew 7
                  12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.


                  1 Corinthians 13
                  1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

                  1 Peter 3
                  15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

                    Originally posted by Deuteronomy Skaggs View Post
                    Hi znpaaneah, where in the Bible does God tell our progenitors that the tree in the midst of the Garden, the one that He commanded them not to eat from, the one that He knows will cause their deaths if they do eat from it (both spiritually and physically), and the deaths of their entire progeny, as well, is a "good tree"?

                    Gen 2:9*And out of the ground made Jehovah God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

                    The Bible is very clear that God made this tree to grow and that he planted it in the midst of the garden of Eden. The Bible is also clear that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. Also God is love and God is life. There are multiple verses throughout the Bible telling us that God intends good for us and not evil. That God’s ways are beyond our understanding. Based on the overwhelming evidence given in the Bible and in the life of Jesus I have concluded that God is wiser than me, that I may not understand his ways but they are good and intended for my salvation, and that includes His creation of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and His placing it in the garden.

                    I am also convinced that giving man free will is very important and that this tree was a necessary component of that.

                    Originally posted by Deuteronomy Skaggs View Post
                    Also, when you say that had our first parents chosen differently in the Garden of God, "that this world we are in would never exist", what did you mean by that exactly?

                    Thanks!

                    ~Deut
                    16*And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17*but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

                    I am persuaded by this verse and many more that death is a temporary condition, just as time is a temporary construct and one day God will declare that "time is no more". Had man chosen to simply obey God's commands that we would have transitioned from the created beings to this future eternal world that is promised much quicker.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

                      Originally posted by Deuteronomy Skaggs View Post
                      Hi again znoaaneah, why do you believe that God is responsible for the evil that men do (because He's the One who gave us free will and chooses not to stop us from using it most of the time)? Or do you mean that He was more directly involved, that He actually and intentionally made men like Hitler, Stalin and Dahmer, "evil"
                      I believe that giving man free will includes the possibility that we would get a Dahmer, Hitler, and Nero. Therefore this tree sets up a protection to the creation from the potential evil. I would liken this tree to a computer simulation, like a flight simulator. The movie concerning the plane that crashed in the Hudson river gives a fantastic portrayal of the kind of computer simulators used in the airline industry. This allows us to test out hypothesis, crash planes into cities, and yet there is no real damage done. On the other hand this simulation is no joke and we can use it to determine the motives, actions and competencies of the pilot. Just as the Lord said that the day will come when we are judged for every word we say, we saw that done in this movie. God created this computer simulation. In it the only thing that can be harmed is the flesh, which is not unlike the ephemeral pixels in a computer simulation. Your soul can be judged by God based on this, so your actions definitely have implications for eternity, but the pilots actions in crashing the plane has no impact on the judgement that those killed by this action will experience.


                      Originally posted by Deuteronomy Skaggs View Post
                      Are not those who rebel against God not only putting their bodies at risk, but their eternal souls as well .. e.g. Matthew 10:28?

                      Thanks!

                      --Deuteronomy
                      Yes, Hitler's actions will definitely impact his judgment and that will impact his soul at risk. But Hitler's actions do not impact the judgement of others.

                      The Lord told Smyrna -- the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; [h]and ye shall have [i]tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life.

                      So the Devil can judge that you go to prison and the Lord can still judge that you get a crown of life.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

                        Originally posted by randyk View Post
                        I see nothing to indicate that the world we are in would never exist had we eaten of the tree of life. Makes no sense!
                        Hindsight is 20/20. Anyone can see a hundred ways that we could have made different choices leading to different outcomes, every different outcome would be a different world.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

                          No Bible verse is of its own interpretation. You have to consider the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil with other verses

                          Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. James 1:17

                          And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom 8:28

                          And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. Mark 10:18

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

                            Originally posted by znpaaneah View Post
                            Hindsight is 20/20. Anyone can see a hundred ways that we could have made different choices leading to different outcomes, every different outcome would be a different world.
                            Consider what the Lord says in Psalm 81

                            Hear, O my people, and I will testify unto thee:
                            O Israel, if thou wouldest hearken unto me!
                            9 There shall no strange god be in thee;
                            Neither shalt thou worship any foreign god.
                            10 I am Jehovah thy God,
                            Who brought thee up out of the land of Egypt:
                            Open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.
                            11 But my people hearkened not to my voice;
                            And Israel would none of me.
                            12 So I let them go after the stubbornness of their heart,
                            That they might walk in their own counsels.
                            13 Oh that my people would hearken unto me,
                            That Israel would walk in my ways!
                            14 I would soon subdue their enemies,
                            And turn my hand against their adversaries.
                            15 The haters of Jehovah should [d]submit themselves unto him:
                            But their time should endure for ever.
                            16 He would feed them also with the [e]finest of the wheat;
                            And with honey out of the rock would I satisfy thee.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

                              Originally posted by znpaaneah View Post
                              Hindsight is 20/20. Anyone can see a hundred ways that we could have made different choices leading to different outcomes, every different outcome would be a different world.
                              That's not the point with me. The point with me is God's word. God made the world to last forever. It was made subject to change, with the possibility of it being destroyed, and with the things on the earth perishing. But God's word indicates that God made it to last forever--it was destined to be re-created in a more eternal form.

                              So the idea that the world may not have been had Man eaten of the Tree of Life is not only not there, but it is antithetical to what God has said about why He created the world. He created it to be the eternal home for Man. Your statement contradicts this, and is therefore false.

                              Comment

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