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Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

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  • #16
    Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

    Originally posted by Adonijah View Post
    If you don't mind, I'm only addressing the part you made bolt and I underlined.

    You are aware a lot of errors have been made in our translations and this is one of them. The word "changed" is actually "to transfer" in Greek "metatithemi" and "metathesis" (See Thayer). Heb. 7:12 actually reads"

    "For the priesthood being transferred, there is made of necessity a transfer also of the law"

    Meant is here the priesthood going from the Levi to Judah or from human priests to Christ, and the Law going from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant. Nowhere in Scripture is Christ called the High Priest of the Church and from the rest of Hebrews it is clear it was written for Hebrews, Jews or Israelite, see for example:

    9:7 "But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people"

    The Church has nothing to do with this

    10:11 "And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins"

    The Church never did this or was told to do this anywhere in Scripture.

    13:11 "For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp"

    The Church never had a sanctuary or was told to offer in it.

    So I object to your proposition.

    I think that he is confused because of how the Old Testament quotes appear so often in Hebrews , probably close to half the book is explaining things from the law , and prophets and psalms , using those quotes to support the points they are making. its constantly interrupted by quotes from the o.t. Which makes it pretty confusing if one doesn't understand that part.

    obviously a main point of the book is the priesthood of Jesus Christ , the order of melchezidek, according to the new covenant he set forth , and the blood of the new covenant which he shed for our sins. Even when Moses was writing the law , God promised that the messiah would come , and his word would superceed the law of Moses .


    when you see how Moses gave the first covenant it sort of becomes clear . First Moses received all the words of the law from God and told them to the people. Then the people agreed to obey everything he had commanded. Then you have Moses taking the blood of animals , blood of the law , and shedding it , sprinkling the people and the book of the law , saying " this is the blood of the covenant God has enjoined to you according to all these words "


    that's how the covenant is given , first the law is preached , then the blood is shed putting the covenant into effect.

    Jesus came , preached the gospel , told them his blood is the blood of the new covenant , told them my words are forever , my authority is forever , keep my words .....then he went to the cross and shed the blood of the new and eternal covenant.


    ....of course he is the high priest of the new and everlasting covenant , sort of one of the points of discussing Hebrews ...there's no more to come we are part of the new and eternal covenant

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

      Originally posted by Adonijah View Post
      Where did you find this was written to ex-Jews? Isn't it clear from Paul's other letters ex-Jews do not exist? Take for instance Romans? See for example v. 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek". So not to ex-Jews, what you seem to miss is there are two kind of Jews, those who believe in Christ and those who do not. But both are still Jews. During the same time these letter were written - the Acts period - this discussion was going on, should the Gentile believers be circumcised, Acts 15? So, it is a assumption you use to build the rest of your point.



      Again you are building your point on the assumption these are ex-Jews which Scripture nowhere says in fact it says the opposite. These are Christian-Jews and they should follow the Law something the Gentiles should not. The Jews are under a blood covenant with God (Jehovah) and this can only stop by completion as the Lord says in Mat. 5:17, 18 "...Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled". That's why Hebrews talks so much about the Law in fact there are 40 quotations to the O.T..

      The Priesthood point to those who are priests, or can be appointed as priests, and that was transferred from one to the other. When this happens the Law must also be transferred from the broken Old Covenant to the New Covenant. In the Old Covenant the people of Israel would do it all "...All the words which the LORD hath said will we do" Exo. 24:3, with the New Covenant it is God who does it "...I will pour my spirit upon thy seed..." Isa. 44:3 and Jer. 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah". See also Eze. 36:26 "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh"



      I don't think this is the case, I think Hebrews 6 tells us this in the proper translation. V. 1 says "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God". The word "laying" is "kataballo" which is correctly translated in 2 Cor. 4:9 "Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed", and Rev. 12:10 "...for the accuser of our brethren is cast down...". So the Hebrews were in danger of completely casting down there faith when the Pentecostal gifts would cease, not to the Law of Moses but to complete disbelief. That's why six point are mentioned in Heb. 6:2-5.



      The part I made bold and underlined above I agree with, Heb. 7 therefore doesn't say "change" but "carried over" or "transferred" as it is translated in Acts 7:16 "And were carried over into Sychem...", the were not changed into Sychem but transfered into it.


      you agree that Christ doesn't have the authority to change Moses law ?

      Moses wrote in the law , that Christ's words would superceed the law ....the law of Moses is absolutely 100 percent not the law for Christians . what they are saying there , is the law of Moses has its own priests the Levites . The law writes only the Levites can be a priest. Judah had no attendance of service under the law pertaining to preisthood. It was reserved all along for Christ , a descendant of Judah who is the actual lawgiver from before Moses by prophecy even from the earliest times ...look at Judah's blessing and who the lawgiver descends from

      Jesus is not allowed to be a priest of the law , because he's not a levite .

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

        Originally posted by Adonijah View Post
        Where did you find this was written to ex-Jews? Isn't it clear from Paul's other letters ex-Jews do not exist? Take for instance Romans? See for example v. 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek". So not to ex-Jews, what you seem to miss is there are two kind of Jews, those who believe in Christ and those who do not. But both are still Jews. During the same time these letter were written - the Acts period - this discussion was going on, should the Gentile believers be circumcised, Acts 15? So, it is a assumption you use to build the rest of your point.



        Again you are building your point on the assumption these are ex-Jews which Scripture nowhere says in fact it says the opposite. These are Christian-Jews and they should follow the Law something the Gentiles should not. The Jews are under a blood covenant with God (Jehovah) and this can only stop by completion as the Lord says in Mat. 5:17, 18 "...Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled". That's why Hebrews talks so much about the Law in fact there are 40 quotations to the O.T..

        The Priesthood point to those who are priests, or can be appointed as priests, and that was transferred from one to the other. When this happens the Law must also be transferred from the broken Old Covenant to the New Covenant. In the Old Covenant the people of Israel would do it all "...All the words which the LORD hath said will we do" Exo. 24:3, with the New Covenant it is God who does it "...I will pour my spirit upon thy seed..." Isa. 44:3 and Jer. 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah". See also Eze. 36:26 "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh"



        I don't think this is the case, I think Hebrews 6 tells us this in the proper translation. V. 1 says "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God". The word "laying" is "kataballo" which is correctly translated in 2 Cor. 4:9 "Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed", and Rev. 12:10 "...for the accuser of our brethren is cast down...". So the Hebrews were in danger of completely casting down there faith when the Pentecostal gifts would cease, not to the Law of Moses but to complete disbelief. That's why six point are mentioned in Heb. 6:2-5.



        The part I made bold and underlined above I agree with, Heb. 7 therefore doesn't say "change" but "carried over" or "transferred" as it is translated in Acts 7:16 "And were carried over into Sychem...", the were not changed into Sychem but transfered into it.
        When God started the Church He built it by taking some OUT OF Jewry, and some OUT OF the nations. So Ephesians 2:15 says:

        "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself (OUT) of twain one new man, so making peace"

        Further, concerning this New Man OUT OF TWO (Israel and the Nations), 2nd Corinthians 5:17 says:

        "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, ALL things are become new."

        Colossians 3:10-11 goes on in this theme;

        10 "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
        11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."


        If a man was a Jew, and he embraces Christ, he is a NEW CREATURE, A NEW MAN and ALL things OLD have passed away. So the result is that in the Church are NO JEWS. He was a Jew, He is now a New Creature. Normal English calls him an EX-JEW. What would you call him?

        The Book of Hebrews is written to those EX-JEWS who were in danger of returning to Moses. The two great enemies of the Gospel are (1) the flesh, and (2) the Law. The nations mostly had the problem of the flesh, as 1st Corinthians tells, and the Jews were ever tending to return to their roots - Moses. The Law is good, the Law is spiritual, the Law is God-given FOR THOSE UNDER LAW. But for the Christian it has no place. That is the reason why Galatians is such a hard speaking book, and that it why Hebrews is full of warnings.

        I will rest here because we are drifting from the original theme. Jesus Christ, Son of God and of the order of Melchisedec, is HIGH PRIEST to the Church (or "our profession of faith"). Jesus Christ, Son of David of the Tribe of Judah is King of the Jews. Jesus Christ, Lamb of God, is Mediator of the New Covenant with Israel. The seed of Aaron, a Levite, is, by the Law and Covenant, the line of the High Priest of Israel. Concerning this, Numbers 25:13 says;

        "And he (Phineas, son of Eleazar, son of Aaron) shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel."

        Take time to consider all this.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

          Originally posted by Walls View Post
          When God started the Church He built it by taking some OUT OF Jewry, and some OUT OF the nations. So Ephesians 2:15 says:

          "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself (OUT) of twain one new man, so making peace"

          Further, concerning this New Man OUT OF TWO (Israel and the Nations), 2nd Corinthians 5:17 says:

          "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, ALL things are become new."

          Colossians 3:10-11 goes on in this theme;

          10 "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
          11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."


          If a man was a Jew, and he embraces Christ, he is a NEW CREATURE, A NEW MAN and ALL things OLD have passed away. So the result is that in the Church are NO JEWS. He was a Jew, He is now a New Creature. Normal English calls him an EX-JEW. What would you call him?

          The Book of Hebrews is written to those EX-JEWS who were in danger of returning to Moses. The two great enemies of the Gospel are (1) the flesh, and (2) the Law. The nations mostly had the problem of the flesh, as 1st Corinthians tells, and the Jews were ever tending to return to their roots - Moses. The Law is good, the Law is spiritual, the Law is God-given FOR THOSE UNDER LAW. But for the Christian it has no place. That is the reason why Galatians is such a hard speaking book, and that it why Hebrews is full of warnings.

          I will rest here because we are drifting from the original theme. Jesus Christ, Son of God and of the order of Melchisedec, is HIGH PRIEST to the Church (or "our profession of faith"). Jesus Christ, Son of David of the Tribe of Judah is King of the Jews. Jesus Christ, Lamb of God, is Mediator of the New Covenant with Israel. The seed of Aaron, a Levite, is, by the Law and Covenant, the line of the High Priest of Israel. Concerning this, Numbers 25:13 says;

          "And he (Phineas, son of Eleazar, son of Aaron) shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel."

          Take time to consider all this.
          Brother , the Old Testament is of the world , of the earth , the gospel is from heaven , and the high priest of the new and eternal covenant is now in heaven until his return
          take time to consider what the book of Hebrews says brother...it's the new covenant consider just what the scripture says

          “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
          **Matthew‬ *26:28‬ *KJV

          "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
          **Matthew‬ *28:18-20‬ *KJV‬‬

          “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

          So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”

          **Mark‬ *16:15-16, 19‬ *KJV‬‬


          "God, ... Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
          **Hebrews‬ *1:1-3‬ *KJV‬‬

          “Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
          **Hebrews‬ *2:1, 3-4‬ *KJV‬‬

          “Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;”
          **Hebrews‬ *3:1‬ *KJV‬‬

          “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

          Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.”
          **Hebrews‬ *4:12-16‬ *KJV‬‬

          “So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

          Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

          And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.”
          **Hebrews‬ *5:5-10‬ *KJV‬‬

          “Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”
          **Hebrews‬ *6:19-20‬ *KJV‬‬

          “If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

          For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

          For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

          By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

          But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens"

          Hebrews‬ *7:11-12, 14-19, 22, 24-26,KJV‬‬

          “Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

          For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, ... But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
          **Hebrews‬ *8:1-2, 4-6‬ *KJV‬‬

          Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

          Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.”
          **Hebrews‬ *10:15-22‬ *KJV‬‬

          For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:....( the giving of the law)

          But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

          See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

          Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”
          **Hebrews‬ *12:18-19, 22-28‬ *KJV


          jesus repeatedly said he had come from heaven , with the word of God for salvation and eternal life , the things of the earth are all doomed ,mercy clearly the heavens and earth now will be destroyed by eternal fire for the punishment of the ungodly , our covenant is the kingdom of God preached by Jesus Christ , that is the word of the new covenant and will never end , his blood is the blood of the new covenant and will never change , this earth and everything of the first creation is doomed by the law , because they broke it and brought the curse upon the earth ....the old covenant ends with the world. It's already decreed .


          we're awaiting the info Jesus Christ promises , eternal life , a new heaven and new earth . I think your missing that Moses spoke of the earth , Jesus spoke from heaven for God the Father declaring good will , remission of sin, calling for repentance .....promising things not of the old but the new . Our promised land is the new creation. The new covenant began with Jesus , it's meant to save people from this cursed creation and its end , and then will come the new things when the sons of God are revealed through the gospel.

          in the beginning he made the heavens and earth first , then the creatures then mankind, then gave them dominion.

          in the new first he grave dominion tomjesus Christ , then he is making new people , then after the people are born again as we call it ....then will come the new home where dominion will belong tomjesus Christ forever

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

            If you wonder who this son of God who spoke from heaven is notice no one else has ever made that claim by the way ...

            So who is the testator ? Who is the high priest ? Who mediated the new covenant ? Who's blood is shed for remission of sin ? Who is it that spoke from heaven ?????

            And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
            **John‬ *3:13-16‬ *KJV‬‬


            He that cometh from above is above all...: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; ..... He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

            The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
            **John‬ *3:31-36‬ *KJV‬‬

            "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

            Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
            **John‬ *6:27-29‬ *KJV‬‬


            “For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

            Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;

            but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

            For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
            **John‬ *5:22-27‬ *KJV‬‬

            All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

            Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

            **Matthew‬ *11:27-30‬ *KJV‬‬

            "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

            Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.”

            **John‬ *7:16-17, 28-29‬ *KJV‬‬



            “And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

            I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

            Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.


            Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

            Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

            And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.


            Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
            **John‬ *8:23-24, 26, 28, 31-32, 42-43, 45, 51‬ *KJV‬‬

            I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

            But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

            My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.”
            **John‬ *10:7, 9-11, 14-16, 26-30‬ *KJV‬‬

            He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
            **John‬ *12:48-50‬ *KJV


            It's not the law of Moses that offers eternal life . Not once . Moses law made Levites alone priests, no attendance under the law for Christ to be a priest he was a descendant of Judah. His priesthood order existed BEFORE the law of Moses existed, and was never a preisthood of the mosaic law. The mosaic law is exclusive to what is written in the book of the law of Moses found in the four books it's given in, a shadow of the gospel the new covenant. Just as the the inns of the kingdom of God , are exclusive to the things Jesus Christ preached in the gospel.

            the law had its inferior blood , priests , mediator , ordinances , and even commandments compared to the new things we have in Christ , this new and living way which Hebrews explains all of this very well if we are willing to accept it

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

              Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
              you agree that Christ doesn't have the authority to change Moses law ?

              Moses wrote in the law , that Christ's words would superceed the law ....the law of Moses is absolutely 100 percent not the law for Christians . what they are saying there , is the law of Moses has its own priests the Levites . The law writes only the Levites can be a priest. Judah had no attendance of service under the law pertaining to preisthood. It was reserved all along for Christ , a descendant of Judah who is the actual lawgiver from before Moses by prophecy even from the earliest times ...look at Judah's blessing and who the lawgiver descends from

              Jesus is not allowed to be a priest of the law , because he's not a levite .
              here's what I mean by look at Judah's blessing

              Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.”
              **Genesis‬ *49:8-10‬ *KJV‬‬


              remember the promises are all before the law is ever given , this blessing is before Israel even was delivered from Egypt ,ma out 400 years or so before the law was given , Judah's line is already decreed that the messiah will come , the lawgiver, the ruler and King will be of this line of Judah . But when the law is finally given , Judah's line is left out of the preisthood services. This is of course by design , because Christ is of the order of melchezidek, the priest of God before the law was ever given.


              this is the only time we see melchezidek and the only other time he's mentioned is in prophecy about Jesus being a priest in the order of melchezidek notice the bread and wine considering the last supper and body and blood of Christ remember this is 430 years before the Ten Commandments even were written by Gods finger and given to Moses on the mount....


              “And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.”
              **Genesis‬ *14:18-20‬ *KJV‬‬

              this is very significant , melchezidek , his priesthood is before the law , not of the law , the priests of the law are of Aaron's order the Levites exclusively were allowed, and Judah was excluded completely from temple ordinance services. Melchezidek is the priest of things of God remember that Abram had just received the promise of the gospel for all people then melchezidek blesses him ...then melchezidek or his order of priesthood is never mentioned again until the book of Hebrews , and prophecy concerning Jesus which Hebrews highlights the oath made concerning Jesus eternal priesthood .

              the law is its own it's not the beginning , but came after mankind had fallen into sin, the state of sin , it came to sinful hearts and people

              “Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
              **1 Timothy‬ *1:9-10‬ *KJV‬‬


              when the law comes well after the promise of the gospel , the people begged and pleaded. Ot to hear gods word because they would die ...God replied to them " very well , I will raise up someone from among them and I will put my words in his mouth ,many whatever he says I will require of all the people" we understand who this is because Peter tells us it's Jesus Christ , Paul also , and Stephen even touches on it in his speech before his death in acts.

              the order of priests followed the state of mankind and our needs. In the beginning there was melchezideks preisthood order , then came the law which made Levites the priests , sinners themselves , needing to sacrifice continually for thier in uncleanness, and the people, so they wouldn't all die in Gods presence......


              the order goes " before the law existed the order of melchezidek. " when the law is then given , Levites are written as the priests of the covenant law, and then Christ came and fulfilled the law by his death for sin , and we are now under the order of melchezidek ,mac cording to the words of the one mediator Jesus Christ the high priest of heaven , the king of righteousness and peace.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

                Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
                Brother , the Old Testament is of the world , of the earth , the gospel is from heaven , and the high priest of the new and eternal covenant is now in heaven until his return
                take time to consider what the book of Hebrews says brother...it's the new covenant consider just what the scripture says

                “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
                **Matthew‬ *26:28‬ *KJV

                ....

                (1) “Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;”
                **Hebrews‬ *3:1‬ *KJV‬‬

                ....

                (2) Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.”
                **Hebrews‬ *4:12-16‬ *KJV‬‬

                (3) “So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

                ...

                (4) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.”
                **Hebrews‬ *5:5-10‬ *KJV‬‬

                (5) “Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”
                **Hebrews‬ *6:19-20‬ *KJV‬‬

                ....
                Thank you for your posting. Many of your scriptures do not directly apply to my posting which you quoted. My posting, which you quoted, was to show why a Jew who embraces Christ is not counted as a Jew any more by the Bible. This, you did not mention. But I understand that you are bothered by my claim that our Lord Jesus is NOT High Priest according to the New Covenant. So let me show you that some of the very verses you posted support my claim. But first I will deal with Christ's blood and the New Covenant.

                Because of sin, every Covenant made between a Holy God and profane man must be RATIFIED with shed blood. In Hebrews 9:22, in context of Moses RATIFYING the first Covenant of Law (Heb.9:18-21), scripture say; "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." Now Noah ratified the Covenant of the Rainbow with animal blood, Abraham ratified the Covenant of Promise with animal blood, and Moses ratified the first Covenant of Law with animal blood. But God has ordained that the New Covenant of LAW must be ratified by the BLOOD OF JESUS. So AMONG OTHER THINGS, one of the things that the blood of Jesus did, was to RATIFY the New Covenant.

                This RATIFICATION does not mean that (1) the Covenant is in force yet, (2) that Jesus is the High Priest because of it, and (3) that He made the Covenant with Israel. In this He is the SUBSTITUTE Whose blood is accepted by God to RATIFY a Covenant made with a Nation who so badly sinned. Just the same as Hebrews 12:24 tells us that, "... Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel." Abel's blood is the cause of the earth being cursed, but Jesus's blood is the cause of the curse being lifted. In this case the blood of Jesus has little to do with Israel or the Church. It deals with a problem long before both.

                Now, let us turn toa selection of your verses, and I must say that if you had read my first postings, you would most probably not have posted these verses because I explained them already. But I know that Christianity largely believes that Jesus is the High Priest of Israel, so let us see how simply these verses remove all thought of this. To simplify and shorten the posting, I gave your verses numbers to save me posting them twice.

                (1) Jesus is High Priest to THOSE OF THE HEAVENLY CALLING - the Church. Our birth is from above (lit. Gk. - Jn.3:3-5)

                (2) It is, "let us hold fast OUR profession". That is, BOTH the author and the hearers of Hebrews have a profession, and this profession is one of FAITH (Heb.10:23). Neither Israel nor the Gentiles have a profession of FAITH - only the church. So this verse PROVES MY POINT

                (3) Our Lord is NOT High Priest of Israel. Israel's High Priest is Aaron and his seed by EVERLASTING COVENANT (Num.25:13).

                (4) Jesus is High Priest according to Melchisedec "FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM". Israel refused Him and disobeyed Him.

                (5) Jesus is the "forerunner for US". The Book of Hebrews is addressed to "those of the heavenly calling and the profession of FAITH" - Christians.

                And so on. I know you love the scriptures, so now is the time to read what they say - very carefully.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

                  Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
                  you agree that Christ doesn't have the authority to change Moses law ?

                  Moses wrote in the law , that Christ's words would superceed the law ....the law of Moses is absolutely 100 percent not the law for Christians . what they are saying there , is the law of Moses has its own priests the Levites . The law writes only the Levites can be a priest. Judah had no attendance of service under the law pertaining to preisthood. It was reserved all along for Christ , a descendant of Judah who is the actual lawgiver from before Moses by prophecy even from the earliest times ...look at Judah's blessing and who the lawgiver descends from

                  Jesus is not allowed to be a priest of the law , because he's not a levite .
                  No I disagree with that, Christ as the Creator has every right there is, but does He? Isn't it clear the Law must be fulfilled by Israel as Mat. 5:18 says "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled".

                  That's why Heb. 7:12 says "For the priesthood changed (being carried over or transferred), there is made of necessity a change (carry over or transfer) also of the law"
                  "Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
                  a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
                  rightly dividing the word of truth."
                  2 Tim. 2:15

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

                    Originally posted by Walls View Post
                    Thank you for your posting. Many of your scriptures do not directly apply to my posting which you quoted. My posting, which you quoted, was to show why a Jew who embraces Christ is not counted as a Jew any more by the Bible. This, you did not mention. But I understand that you are bothered by my claim that our Lord Jesus is NOT High Priest according to the New Covenant. So let me show you that some of the very verses you posted support my claim. But first I will deal with Christ's blood and the New Covenant.

                    Because of sin, every Covenant made between a Holy God and profane man must be RATIFIED with shed blood. In Hebrews 9:22, in context of Moses RATIFYING the first Covenant of Law (Heb.9:18-21), scripture say; "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." Now Noah ratified the Covenant of the Rainbow with animal blood, Abraham ratified the Covenant of Promise with animal blood, and Moses ratified the first Covenant of Law with animal blood. But God has ordained that the New Covenant of LAW must be ratified by the BLOOD OF JESUS. So AMONG OTHER THINGS, one of the things that the blood of Jesus did, was to RATIFY the New Covenant.

                    This RATIFICATION does not mean that (1) the Covenant is in force yet, (2) that Jesus is the High Priest because of it, and (3) that He made the Covenant with Israel. In this He is the SUBSTITUTE Whose blood is accepted by God to RATIFY a Covenant made with a Nation who so badly sinned. Just the same as Hebrews 12:24 tells us that, "... Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel." Abel's blood is the cause of the earth being cursed, but Jesus's blood is the cause of the curse being lifted. In this case the blood of Jesus has little to do with Israel or the Church. It deals with a problem long before both.

                    Now, let us turn toa selection of your verses, and I must say that if you had read my first postings, you would most probably not have posted these verses because I explained them already. But I know that Christianity largely believes that Jesus is the High Priest of Israel, so let us see how simply these verses remove all thought of this. To simplify and shorten the posting, I gave your verses numbers to save me posting them twice.

                    (1) Jesus is High Priest to THOSE OF THE HEAVENLY CALLING - the Church. Our birth is from above (lit. Gk. - Jn.3:3-5)

                    (2) It is, "let us hold fast OUR profession". That is, BOTH the author and the hearers of Hebrews have a profession, and this profession is one of FAITH (Heb.10:23). Neither Israel nor the Gentiles have a profession of FAITH - only the church. So this verse PROVES MY POINT

                    (3) Our Lord is NOT High Priest of Israel. Israel's High Priest is Aaron and his seed by EVERLASTING COVENANT (Num.25:13).

                    (4) Jesus is High Priest according to Melchisedec "FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM". Israel refused Him and disobeyed Him.

                    (5) Jesus is the "forerunner for US". The Book of Hebrews is addressed to "those of the heavenly calling and the profession of FAITH" - Christians.

                    And so on. I know you love the scriptures, so now is the time to read what they say - very carefully.

                    there's no difference in Jew and gentile there's no difference whatsoever , whoever accepts the gospel , is recognized the seed of Abraham . What was promised to Israel , was sent through them to the world . There's no difference in Jew and gentile , the church is comprised of believing Jews and Gentiles .....not really sure why you think differently .

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

                      Originally posted by Adonijah View Post
                      No I disagree with that, Christ as the Creator has every right there is, but does He? Isn't it clear the Law must be fulfilled by Israel as Mat. 5:18 says "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled".

                      That's why Heb. 7:12 says "For the priesthood changed (being carried over or transferred), there is made of necessity a change (carry over or transfer) also of the law"
                      “For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
                      **Hebrews‬ *8:4-6‬ *KJV‬‬

                      what do you disagree with ? youmhave two covenants one has its own priests , Levites .

                      you have the new covenant , the gospel it has its own priest .

                      when Jesus said till all be fulfilled .....consider what he was saying

                      “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
                      **Matthew‬ *5:18‬ *KJV‬‬

                      “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.”
                      **Luke‬ *21:32‬ *KJV‬‬

                      “After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

                      When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”
                      **John‬ *19:28, 30‬ *KJV‬‬


                      then if you think , well that's not what he meant he said this

                      “And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

                      And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

                      **Luke‬ *24:44, 46-47‬ *KJV‬‬



                      do you see that ps what it means when it says " a testament S of force AFTER the death of the testator . The law was in authority over everyone Jesus spoke to , they we're all circumcised Jews, bound to the law those who believed however when Jesus died and rose again , his covenant was set in place. Until he died and rose , Moses law and the blood of that covenant was in effect. When the testator Jesus Christ died and rose , everything had been fulfilled and the law is actually a blinder to Christ if we don't understand its contrary and not our covenant



                      "Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

                      Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.



                      But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

                      Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

                      But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

                      Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
                      **2 Corinthians‬ *3:3-4, 6-7, 11-18‬ *KJV‬‬


                      the law has no authority of redeeming value to a Christian the old covenant is done away , abolished , were dead to it through the body of Jesus Christ , and thank God we are because under it , everyone is condemned and dies

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

                        the New Testament of spirit that gives life.

                        “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
                        **John‬ *6:63‬ *KJV‬‬


                        you literally see the law , and it's contrary nature in the preaching of Christ .


                        The law from Sinai says

                        “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
                        **Exodus‬ *20:14‬ *KJV‬‬

                        Moses governing law says


                        “And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
                        **Leviticus‬ *20:10‬ *KJV‬‬

                        They who trust in this law

                        “And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?”
                        **John‬ *8:3-5‬ *KJV‬‬


                        they are indeed correct , the law says any adulterer must be put to death according to the law of Moses, the first covenant .

                        “So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

                        And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

                        She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
                        **John‬ *8:7, 9-12‬ *KJV‬‬

                        and again you have the blindness to the savior by those who trust in the mosaic law, using it again trying to accuse Jesus for having no second witness....they wouldn't believe in Jesus , because they had the law and kept trusting in it even after it cursed them through breaking it...

                        “The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.”
                        **John‬ *8:13‬ *KJV‬‬


                        they like many thought the law of Moses was the eternal law , they hadn't seen the witness of Christ in the law , and his authority of his word. Again here you see absolutely contrary doctrine first the law of Moses just simply observe the contrary directives

                        “When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.”
                        **Deuteronomy‬ *24:1-2‬ *KJV‬‬

                        and what Jesus taught in the gospel

                        It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.”
                        **Matthew‬ *5:31-32‬ *KJV‬‬


                        Jesus directly quotes the mosaic law , and then gives a contrary directive Moses says if you got an issue with your wife , divorce her and she can go remarry and you can too. Jesus quotes that and says something contrary " no divorce unless it's for adultery"

                        Then you see something really enlightening if you are able to consider again you have those who trust in the law , question him about this and see that Jesus , was teaching things that were before the law of Moses .

                        “And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

                        ( again they are correct that's what Moses law says they knew it.)


                        And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

                        And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
                        **Mark‬ *10:2-9, 11-12‬ *KJV‬‬


                        so you have Jesus teaching things before the fall of man

                        see Jesus is of the melchezidek priesthood , before the law of Moses ever was given . Long before . So what Jesus said there about marriage comes from a time before the fall into sin, before sin hardened the hearts of men, a time when man and woman had no shame even naked in Gods presence....before mankind knew good and evil .

                        “And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”
                        **Genesis‬ *2:22-25‬ *KJV‬‬

                        the law of Moses , has value in Christ for learning about Christ and the New Testament , but if we are looking to the law as our law , or as if it has authority over us , we will end up rejecting Jesus Christ and the gospel , because they are contrary one saves us , and one brings the need for salvation by condemning sinners. The laws great for learning but it's simply not our covenant and cannot ever offer eternal life

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

                          Here is Moses , succeeding the authority in the law to Christ when he would come consider the first verses of Hebrews also....in the law of Moses it is written

                          “The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

                          And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
                          **Deuteronomy‬ *18:15-19‬ *KJV‬‬

                          We don't have to wonder if this is Jesus Moses speaks of because Peter tells us plainly

                          “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

                          For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

                          Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
                          **Acts‬ *3:19-26‬ *KJV‬‬

                          so see the idea that Jesus had no authority to change the law is foolishness , because in the law itself , the people begged and pleaded " don't let the lord speak anymore lest we surely die " and God answered thier plea , " very well , I will raise up a prophet from among thier brethren , I will put my words in his mouth and whatsoever HE shall command in my name will be required" its already written and can't be undone that's the nature of the law.


                          we know who this is for certain it was Jesus consistent claim, he cried out constantly referring to this


                          "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

                          Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.”
                          **John‬ *7:16-17, 28-29‬ *KJV‬‬

                          “And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

                          I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

                          Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

                          Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


                          Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

                          And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.


                          Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
                          **John‬ *8:23-24, 26, 28, 31-32, 42-43, 45, 51‬ *KJV‬‬

                          He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
                          **John‬ *12:48-50‬ *KJV

                          remember what Moses said in the law ?

                          "For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. "

                          "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”

                          Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.....I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

                          Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”
                          **John‬ *5:39-40, 43, 45-47‬ *KJV‬‬

                          “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
                          **John‬ *14:23-26‬ *KJV‬‬

                          he's the one God sent , the one God promised to send in the law itself .....and consider he's saying " whoever will hear my word and believe shall have eternal,life and not be condemned " .....where as Moses said " whoever does not keep every ordinance and jot and tittle of this law will be cursed and scattered a one the earth....one is certain death to a sinner even a small sinner who inks thier a decent person, the law condemns sin, all of it. But the gospel is about recognizing our sins rough belief and following the call into repentance and everlasting life , being assured by our Great high preist that he ever lives to make intercession for those who will take his yoke upon them


                          It shouldn't be a wonder how Hebrews starts out exalting Jesus Christ , or that he is the one and only way for salvation and eternal life , it's what the message of the bible is all about " go to Jesus Christ and believe " he is the mediator of the eternal covenant ' Moses already succeeded the authority to him in the law itself , by Gods design . The Pharisees and priests and scribes , knew the law , they didn't hear the law. They didn't see the promises of Christ and the new covenant in the law such as this one above.

                          Jesus is the Christ , the son of the living God , he is the high priest of God forever, he is the testator of the New Testament , he is the sacrifice of atonement according to the new covenant , he is everything we need , and all the rest is pointing to him. He is the covenant itself , his words, his authority , his pre ordination, his genealogy, his shed blood for remission of sins , his intercession between God and mankind, his mediation of Gods eternal word ....


                          the old covenant had all of those things , had its testator Moses who wrote the whole law , and then she'd the blood of the covenant , the blood of animals according to his testament. It had its sinful priests the Levites, it had all of its worldly ordinances for washings and ceremonial cleansing, it had its sacrifices and holy days and sabbaths and feasts and it had its Passover ....none of those things , none of them exist outside the mosaic law and that covenant.

                          there's nothing of the old covenant , in the new , o lay the fulfillment of the promises in the law pertaining to Christ . When they sacrificed the Passover lamb , it's a lesson about Christ, when thier high priest did the atonement , it was a foreshadow of Christ's atonement , when thier priests were ordained upon the worldly sanctuary , it was a foretelling of the prieshood of Jesus Christ and his ordination for the true things of the heavens , the promises of God for eternal life and a new heavens and earth where his children will dwell and live forever with him' the kingdom of God that is now in promise , but will come to pass when Jesus returns and ushers in the new things.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

                            Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
                            there's no difference in Jew and gentile there's no difference whatsoever , whoever accepts the gospel , is recognized the seed of Abraham . What was promised to Israel , was sent through them to the world . There's no difference in Jew and gentile , the church is comprised of believing Jews and Gentiles .....not really sure why you think differently .
                            But the discussion is NOT whether there is a difference between Jew and Gentile in the Church, but whether they even exist as Jew and Gentile. It is NOT; "There is no difference in the Church ... .", but "There is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek ... " (Gal.3:28; Col.3:11). They don't EXIST as such.
                            • If a Jew embraces Christ he retains a Jewish passport because of the womb he came from. This is recognized by MEN
                            • If a Jew embraces Christ, IN GOD'S EYES HE IS A NEW CREATURE AND A NEW MAN. THE OLD HAS PASSED AWAY
                            • If a U.S. citizen embraces Christ he retains his USA passport BEFORE MEN because of his worldly status.
                            • If a U.S. citizen embraces Christ, IN GOD'S EYES HE IS A NEW CREATURE AND A NEW MAN. THE OLD HAS PASSED AWAY

                            GOD, AND THE CHURCH, RECOGNIZE NO WORLDLY CITIZENSHIP, but a heavenly.

                            The Jew who converts is not worse off because the "middle wall of partition is abolished" because it comes from the Covenant of Law, not the Covenant of Promise. This was the case of Hebrews. The ex-Jew thought that he was better off with Moses, but the inspired author of Hebrews continuously shows the superiority of being IN CHRIST.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

                              Originally posted by Walls View Post
                              When God started the Church He built it by taking some OUT OF Jewry, and some OUT OF the nations. So Ephesians 2:15 says:

                              "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself (OUT) of twain one new man, so making peace"

                              Further, concerning this New Man OUT OF TWO (Israel and the Nations), 2nd Corinthians 5:17 says:

                              "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, ALL things are become new."

                              Colossians 3:10-11 goes on in this theme;

                              10 "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
                              11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."


                              If a man was a Jew, and he embraces Christ, he is a NEW CREATURE, A NEW MAN and ALL things OLD have passed away. So the result is that in the Church are NO JEWS. He was a Jew, He is now a New Creature. Normal English calls him an EX-JEW. What would you call him?

                              The Book of Hebrews is written to those EX-JEWS who were in danger of returning to Moses. The two great enemies of the Gospel are (1) the flesh, and (2) the Law. The nations mostly had the problem of the flesh, as 1st Corinthians tells, and the Jews were ever tending to return to their roots - Moses. The Law is good, the Law is spiritual, the Law is God-given FOR THOSE UNDER LAW. But for the Christian it has no place. That is the reason why Galatians is such a hard speaking book, and that it why Hebrews is full of warnings.

                              I will rest here because we are drifting from the original theme. Jesus Christ, Son of God and of the order of Melchisedec, is HIGH PRIEST to the Church (or "our profession of faith"). Jesus Christ, Son of David of the Tribe of Judah is King of the Jews. Jesus Christ, Lamb of God, is Mediator of the New Covenant with Israel. The seed of Aaron, a Levite, is, by the Law and Covenant, the line of the High Priest of Israel. Concerning this, Numbers 25:13 says;

                              "And he (Phineas, son of Eleazar, son of Aaron) shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel."

                              Take time to consider all this.
                              Thank you for you reply, but we are so different in viewing Gods word, therefore I throw in the towel.
                              "Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
                              a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
                              rightly dividing the word of truth."
                              2 Tim. 2:15

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Hebrews : Jesus the high priest the new covenant

                                Originally posted by Adonijah View Post
                                Thank you for you reply, but we are so different in viewing Gods word, therefore I throw in the towel.
                                It is not a case of throwing in the towel. I'll stop anyway. But you have been faced with something new and it takes time to either die a natural death, or take root. I've been studying this Bible for 30 years now. Do you know how many times I had to change my view as new and better information cane in. And it all took time. Even Paul, trained in God's Word by Gamaliel, Pharisee of Pharisees, had to be taken aside by God for 14 years for his training. He says, in 1 Corinthians 13:11; "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." Paul went through a process. You and I go through a process. The main thing is that we remain honest. If an argument is given, it must be scrutinized. If it is obviously false according to the actual words, then we discard it. But if it essentially correct, but clashes with our prior understanding, it must be filed away for the Holy Spirit to work on. Let us not be found forcing plain language into some convoluted sentence to fit our predilections.

                                Anyway - thanks for the exchange - and the courteous manner of your postings.

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