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The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

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  • The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

    Although many of the founders were Christian, the United States was founded on the principles of morality and liberty, not Christianity. Christianity has reaped the benefits, but the founders didn't especially care what religion a person was as long as their views on morality didn't interfere with individual liberty. The 1st Amendment guarantees a plurality of religions, not just Christianity.

    The idea of individual liberty sounds good but it's antithetical to true Christianity which teaches that we are servants of Christ:
    "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?"1 Corinthians 6:19.

    Morality alone is doomed to failure because of human frailty. Christ and the Holy Spirit are the only ones who can produce true and lasting morality.

    ". . .promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved."2 Peter 2:19.

    Don't get me wrong, I love living in the US where I have the freedom to practice my faith without fear of losing my life. But no one should be under the false notion that morality and individual liberty can serve as a substitute for true faith and a relationship with the Savior.

  • #2
    Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

    Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
    Although many of the founders were Christian, the United States was founded on the principles of morality and liberty, not Christianity. Christianity has reaped the benefits, but the founders didn't especially care what religion a person was as long as their views on morality didn't interfere with individual liberty. The 1st Amendment guarantees a plurality of religions, not just Christianity.

    The idea of individual liberty sounds good but it's antithetical to true Christianity which teaches that we are servants of Christ:
    "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?"1 Corinthians 6:19.

    Morality alone is doomed to failure because of human frailty. Christ and the Holy Spirit are the only ones who can produce true and lasting morality.

    ". . .promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved."2 Peter 2:19.

    Don't get me wrong, I love living in the US where I have the freedom to practice my faith without fear of losing my life. But no one should be under the false notion that morality and individual liberty can serve as a substitute for true faith and a relationship with the Savior.
    Nice post.

    There are some who think that there are Christian nations. The Bible does not recognize this. There are nations whose constitution and/or laws reflect Biblical values, but even criminals fear retribution when they steal or kill among their own. Countries where the Reformation was most energetically fought for, remain GENTILE Nations, and the inspired record shows that God puts the basest of governors over them (Dan.4:17). It is a sobering thing that Adam and Eve were not burdened by a sinful nature when they rebelled.

    Morality divorced from Christ is doomed to fail. And the Nations - all of them - are doomed to face God's wrath.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

      Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
      Although many of the founders were Christian, the United States was founded on the principles of morality and liberty, not Christianity. Christianity has reaped the benefits, but the founders didn't especially care what religion a person was as long as their views on morality didn't interfere with individual liberty. The 1st Amendment guarantees a plurality of religions, not just Christianity.

      The idea of individual liberty sounds good but it's antithetical to true Christianity which teaches that we are servants of Christ:
      "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?"—1 Corinthians 6:19.

      Morality alone is doomed to failure because of human frailty. Christ and the Holy Spirit are the only ones who can produce true and lasting morality.

      ". . .promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved."—2 Peter 2:19.

      Don't get me wrong, I love living in the US where I have the freedom to practice my faith without fear of losing my life. But no one should be under the false notion that morality and individual liberty can serve as a substitute for true faith and a relationship with the Savior.
      The preamble of each state recognizes God. To me that states we are a christian nation. Post 3 on this link lists them all. Jesus did not start a new religion nor tell people not to believe in God the Father he said God is one Mr 12:29

      https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...ristian-Nation

      Psalms 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

      As a christian to me there is only 1 God. Jesus and the Father are one. Joh 14:9 Joh 10:30

      As a christian..how many Almighty God's are there to you? What to you needs to be done to show we are a christian nation? To me it states we are a nation that believes in God Almighty.
      Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

        Originally posted by kyCyd View Post
        The preamble of each state recognizes God. To me that states we are a christian nation. Post 3 on this link lists them all. Jesus did not start a new religion nor tell people not to believe in God the Father he said God is one Mr 12:29

        https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...ristian-Nation

        Psalms 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

        As a christian to me there is only 1 God. Jesus and the Father are one. Joh 14:9 Joh 10:30

        As a christian..how many Almighty God's are there to you? What to you needs to be done to show we are a christian nation? To me it states we are a nation that believes in God Almighty.
        Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
        The preambles pointedly avoid the Name Jesus. Nor do they give God His Name - Jehovah. For many the "God" of the preambles could be Satan - whom even the bible calls "the god of this world" (2nd Cor.4:4). Albert Pike (died 1891), Sovereign Grand Commander of Scottish Rite Free Masonry for 32 years, is reported to have written that Lucifer was God. He further writes;

        "To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General (33rd Degree Masons), we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees: 'The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine.'"

        How many Masons grace the halls of United States Government?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

          Originally posted by Walls View Post
          The preambles pointedly avoid the Name Jesus. Nor do they give God His Name - Jehovah. For many the "God" of the preambles could be Satan - whom even the bible calls "the god of this world" (2nd Cor.4:4). Albert Pike (died 1891), Sovereign Grand Commander of Scottish Rite Free Masonry for 32 years, is reported to have written that Lucifer was God. He further writes;

          "To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General (33rd Degree Masons), we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees: 'The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine.'"

          How many Masons grace the halls of United States Government?
          And what did God call himself here?
          Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

            Originally posted by kyCyd View Post
            And what did God call himself here?
            Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
            True. But one is a Christian because one is associated with Jesus Christ. If US of A was Christian, their preambles would not deny His Name. It is the name of Jesus that is decisive. This name, among the bulk of Americans, is an expletive.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

              Originally posted by Walls View Post
              True. But one is a Christian because one is associated with Jesus Christ. If US of A was Christian, their preambles would not deny His Name. It is the name of Jesus that is decisive. This name, among the bulk of Americans, is an expletive.
              To me this nation has spoken...they put in office a christian that used the name of Jesus in inaugural address. The christians of this nation stood up. I don't know why with that too you wouldn't call this a christian nation. To me we are a christian nation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

                Originally posted by kyCyd View Post
                To me this nation has spoken...they put in office a christian that used the name of Jesus in inaugural address. The christians of this nation stood up. I don't know why with that too you wouldn't call this a christian nation. To me we are a christian nation.
                I appreciate your sentiments. It would be nice. But you were unable to address my proofs. And together with that you have just told the true story. You wrote;

                The christians of this nation stood up
                You mean that some are not Christians? What percentage are Christians - I mean the ones who fruit says they're Christians - not their lip service to get votes? With all respect to President Trump, and I'm the first to admit he is God's choice, have his businesses been bankrupt for large sums of money multiple times and never payed that money back? "Not slothful in business ..." (Rom.12:11). "Owe no man anything ..." (Rom.13:8)."By their fruits you will KNOW them."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

                  Who is being separated when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats.
                  Aren't the sheep the Nations that followed Christ, and the goats the Nations that did not follow Christ ?
                  Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
                  Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

                    Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
                    Who is being separated when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats.
                    Aren't the sheep the Nations that followed Christ, and the goats the Nations that did not follow Christ ?
                    In Revelation there are three indications that not all men will follow the Beast. They are;
                    1. After the resurrection and rapture of the Two Witnesses in Revelation 11, and the attached earthquake, many, who are supposed to worship the Beast alone, give glory to God (Rev.11:13)
                    2. After Satan is cast to earth he makes a personal vendetta against the Woman of Revelation 12. She is given a refuge in the wilderness and is "helped by the earth" (Rev.12:16)
                    3. In Revelation 20:4-5 a certain segment of the population will oppose the Beast and be beheaded

                    Since the saints left on earth are overcome by the Beast (Rev.13:7), these "opposers" of the Beast must come from the Nations. At the judgment of the NATIONS these people who helped "the least of the Lord's brethren (since they are a defeated bunch)", will be singled out by Christ for reward as per His statement in Matthew 10:42 and Mark 9:41. These are the "Sheep". They are members of the NATIONS who helped a Christian or a Israelite during the Great Tribulation. They are individuals rather than whole nations.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

                      Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
                      Although many of the founders were Christian, the United States was founded on the principles of morality and liberty, not Christianity. Christianity has reaped the benefits, but the founders didn't especially care what religion a person was as long as their views on morality didn't interfere with individual liberty. The 1st Amendment guarantees a plurality of religions, not just Christianity.

                      The idea of individual liberty sounds good but it's antithetical to true Christianity which teaches that we are servants of Christ:
                      "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?"1 Corinthians 6:19.

                      Morality alone is doomed to failure because of human frailty. Christ and the Holy Spirit are the only ones who can produce true and lasting morality.

                      ". . .promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved."2 Peter 2:19.

                      Don't get me wrong, I love living in the US where I have the freedom to practice my faith without fear of losing my life. But no one should be under the false notion that morality and individual liberty can serve as a substitute for true faith and a relationship with the Savior.
                      I haven't really followed this thread, but I will give you my thoughts. The US was indeed founded as a "Christian nation." It was a mixed bunch--mixed between liberal Christians and more orthodox Christians, but they had a Christian consensus. They had basic Christian morality, although that is never a guarantee that the morality is actually lived out.

                      But you're right. The religious pluralism, ensured under the Constitution, sowed the seeds of separation between State and Church. It was, in fact, the antithesis to the 10 Commandments, which began with, "You shall have no other gods--religions."

                      Early America thought of pluralism as a tolerance of different kinds of Christianity along with a tolerance of non-Christians, representing a small minority. It was the Hebrew sense of "treating the sojourner fairly."

                      But overtime the liberals in the US began to adopt a more progressive interpretation of the Constitution, and led to a more secularized US. And it is indeed questionable how much of Christian consensus exists any more in that country?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

                        I think the original "freedom of religion" meant Christian religion not any other religion. It's been re-interpreted now to protect any religion and it's fairly out of control. America used to be Christian, but it's in decline like the rest of the world and the various "Christian nations" elsewhere.
                        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

                          The First Amendment explicitly states that Congress shall pass no law infringing on the free exercise of religion. This clearly allows a multiplicity of religions, not just Christianity. In the Supreme Court, there are images of Moses, Confucius, Muhammed, Solon and Napolean: representing "great lawgivers."

                          Clearly many of the Founders were Christian, but the US wasn't founded as a Christian nation. There's a good deal of misunderstanding about this and it's one of the main reasons I posted this. Its laws are based on the moral code found in the Bible but it doesn't recognize Christianity as the one true religion.

                          The US was founded on the principles of morality (or virtue) and individual liberty. If your religion advances these you're welcomed into the club.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

                            Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
                            The First Amendment explicitly states that Congress shall pass no law infringing on the free exercise of religion. This clearly allows a multiplicity of religions, not just Christianity. In the Supreme Court, there are images of Moses, Confucius, Muhammed, Solon and Napolean: representing "great lawgivers."

                            Clearly many of the Founders were Christian, but the US wasn't founded as a Christian nation. There's a good deal of misunderstanding about this and it's one of the main reasons I posted this. Its laws are based on the moral code found in the Bible but it doesn't recognize Christianity as the one true religion.

                            The US was founded on the principles of morality (or virtue) and individual liberty. If your religion advances these you're welcomed into the club.
                            Well you are welcome to your own opinion...but this topic was not about laws of a nation. It is about who a nation recognizes as the Lord.
                            Psalms 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

                            This nation and states of the nation recognizes Almighty God this is made clear. There is only one God and He called Himself Almighty God. This is whom is recognized for this nation and stated within the pledge of allegiance that we are under God....one nation under God. So how do you think the Lord sees this? As a christian do you have a problem with the term Almighty God?

                            Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
                            The First Amendment explicitly states that Congress shall pass no law infringing on the free exercise of religion. This clearly allows a multiplicity of religions, not just Christianity. In the Supreme Court, there are images of Moses, Confucius, Muhammed, Solon and Napolean: representing "great lawgivers."

                            Clearly many of the Founders were Christian, but the US wasn't founded as a Christian nation. There's a good deal of misunderstanding about this and it's one of the main reasons I posted this. Its laws are based on the moral code found in the Bible but it doesn't recognize Christianity as the one true religion.

                            The US was founded on the principles of morality (or virtue) and individual liberty. If your religion advances these you're welcomed into the club.
                            Well you are welcome to your own opinion...but this topic was not about laws of a nation. It is about who a nation recognizes as the Lord.
                            Psalms 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

                            This nation and states of the nation recognizes Almighty God this is made clear. There is only one God and He called Himself Almighty God. This is whom is recognized for this nation and stated within the pledge of allegiance that we are under God....one nation under God. So how do you think the Lord sees this? As a christian do you have a problem with the term Almighty God?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The USA is not a Christian nation (technically)

                              Originally posted by kyCyd View Post
                              Well you are welcome to your own opinion...but this topic was not about laws of a nation. It is about who a nation recognizes as the Lord.
                              Psalms 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

                              This nation and states of the nation recognizes Almighty God this is made clear. There is only one God and He called Himself Almighty God. This is whom is recognized for this nation and stated within the pledge of allegiance that we are under God....one nation under God. So how do you think the Lord sees this? As a christian do you have a problem with the term Almighty God?
                              1. First, Psalm 33:12 concerns Israel. The second half of the verses is about Who chose who. Israel did not chose the Lord, but the Lord Israel (Deut.7:7, 10:15). The sense of the verse is that blessed is the nations who was chosen by the Lord to be their God and not the choice of men who choose gods.
                              2. Second, the choice of the Fathers of the Constitution might have meant Jehovah, and Jesus, but they chose not to acknowledge His Name. Rather, the God of the USA is displayed in their symbolism - the pentagram, the hexagram and the obelisk of Washington - all dating back to Nimrod and Babel.
                              3. Third, God made a Covenant with men concerning the shedding of innocent blood. Currently, only 29 States uphold the death penalty. And in these 29 States dozens of plea-deals are made to forego the death penalty. Last year there were 15,500 murders in the U.S. of A
                              4. The U.S.A. guarantees the rights of a a criminal but will not guarantee the rights of the innocent
                              5. The U.S.A., far from administering God's required Justice - an eye-for-an-eye, and a-life-for-a-life, has a policy of mild retribution and of letting offenders out of jail to prey on society again. The known rate of rehabilitation of criminals is less than 10%, yet murderers, rapists, thieves and child molesters are consistently released to repeat their crimes.
                              6. The Law of Moses, given by God, requires justice. The Law of the USA requires IN-justice.

                              USA a God-fearing, Christian Land? I think not.

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