Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Revival praying

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jacob's Ladder
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    Alright. We'll let the reader decide who is the one afraid of communication.
    Oh, so in your mind readers decide right and wrong then, I get it now.
    Okay then, thank you for further revealing more of your thinking processes to us.

    Leave a comment:


  • BrianW
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Aviyah again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aviyah
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    No you don't, you habitually quote partial sentences so you can present it out of context to spin it into something you are comfortable responding too.
    That is fear, Aviyah. You are afraid to communicate with me honestly.
    But, I totally understand why you do that, so it is okay, really.

    And since I refuse to allow myself to respond to such communication tactics amicably, then I will just leave it where you have put this.

    Peace
    Alright. We'll let the reader decide who is the one afraid of communication.

    Thanks for explaining your thoughts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jacob's Ladder
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    When I reply to posts in quotes, I use one line or sentence as the main point I'm responding to. I intend it as a courtesy so that there's not a whole block of text taking up room on the page, and also to help keep myself along the train of thought when replying to multiple ideas within one post. I also use it to show that I did read everything in the post before hitting the reply button, especially when something seems critical like those clarifications you gave to my 3 points of understanding. So it's to indicate that I've taken "this part" of the post into consideration for my reply, and I didn't miss something you had taken the time to write.


    It isn't that I am only reading those bubbles which appear in my actual response, in fact I read the entire thing. If you prefer I repost your entire quote, or not use quote bubbles at all, I'll do so for you from now on. The intent and direction of my posts will not change, but will become less concise as I'll need to expand more on exactly which idea I'm speaking towards.
    No you don't, you habitually quote partial sentences so you can present it out of context to spin it into something you are comfortable responding too.
    That is fear, Aviyah. You are afraid to communicate with me honestly.
    But, I totally understand why you do that, so it is okay, really.

    And since I refuse to allow myself to respond to such communication tactics amicably, then I will just leave it where you have put this.



    Peace

    Leave a comment:


  • Aviyah
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    You are back to your tactic of cherry-picking half sentences in quotes (out of context) to comment on again, I see.
    That's fine Aviyah, I fully understand your fear of honestly communicating with me.

    Peace
    When I reply to posts in quotes, I use one line or sentence as the main point I'm responding to. I intend it as a courtesy so that there's not a whole block of text taking up room on the page, and also to help keep myself along the train of thought when replying to multiple ideas within one post. I also use it to show that I did read everything in the post before hitting the reply button, especially when something seems critical like those clarifications you gave to my 3 points of understanding. So it's to indicate that I've taken "this part" of the post into consideration for my reply, and I didn't miss something you had taken the time to write.

    It isn't that I am only reading those bubbles which appear in my actual response, in fact I read the entire thing. If you prefer I repost your entire quote, or not use quote bubbles at all, I'll do so for you from now on. The intent and direction of my posts will not change, but will become less concise as I'll need to expand more on exactly which idea I'm speaking towards.

    If you care to read my last reply, you'll find that I actually took nothing out of context. Dishonest and evasive conversation is not my style, as I'm not interested in winning arguments but ascertaining the truth.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jacob's Ladder
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    Being an arm-chair-linguist, I'm sure you've heard of present participles!



    Praying in tongues is still praying, of course. I disagree with your opinion on horses, so I've given a zebra example.



    Correct - they are not the same thing. However, my argument is that prayer can (and should) be used to edify. Perhaps I can clarify with a simpler question. If prayer cannot/does not/should not also serve the purpose of edification, why would Paul encourage that there should be an interpretation of someone praying "in the Spirit?" What's the purpose behind interpreting a Spirit-lead prayer?

    When you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

    Can you pray "with the spirit" alone at church? Yes.

    Can you edify someone when you pray "with the spirit" alone? No.

    Can you edify someone when you pray "with the spirit" AND "understanding?" Yes. (In the case of tongues, understanding requires an interpreter).



    OK.



    By "lead me to or not to pray," does that also include (but not necessitate) praying vocally over the person/group listening?



    OK.



    We would agree that the person leading the prayer is not a substitute for you praying yourself. However, a "lead prayer" does serve the purpose of edification, where you can join in the praise or petition. This is the function Paul is describing in 1 Cor., notwithstanding tongue prayer is the specific example used.
    You are back to your tactic of cherry-picking half sentences in quotes (out of context) to comment on again, I see.
    That's fine Aviyah, I fully understand your fear of honestly communicating with me.


    Peace

    Leave a comment:


  • Aviyah
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    First: I am not raising the point, I raised the point, once.
    Although I am still contending for that point, there is a notable difference between raising a point and contending for a previously-presented point.
    Being an arm-chair-linguist, I'm sure you've heard of present participles!

    Praying in tongues was not and is still does not have anything to do with what I am presenting to be my stance on "prayers are for closets/secret/solitude"
    Praying in tongues is still praying, of course. I disagree with your opinion on horses, so I've given a zebra example.

    Edification and prayer are not the same thing (not even close), nor do they have the same functional purpose within the body of Christ.
    Correct - they are not the same thing. However, my argument is that prayer can (and should) be used to edify. Perhaps I can clarify with a simpler question. If prayer cannot/does not/should not also serve the purpose of edification, why would Paul encourage that there should be an interpretation of someone praying "in the Spirit?" What's the purpose behind interpreting a Spirit-lead prayer?

    When you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

    Can you pray "with the spirit" alone at church? Yes.

    Can you edify someone when you pray "with the spirit" alone? No.

    Can you edify someone when you pray "with the spirit" AND "understanding?" Yes. (In the case of tongues, understanding requires an interpreter).

    1) Corporate prayer does not mean having one person pray vocally in a group. (post #32)
    No.
    OK.

    2) Spirit-lead prayer in a group setting (aka, praying in one accord), is different from (or inferior to) being lead in prayer by one person. (post #34)
    Maybe [...] my definition of that was " waiting for the Spirit in me lead me as to or not-to pray over a situation or person
    By "lead me to or not to pray," does that also include (but not necessitate) praying vocally over the person/group listening?

    3) Prayer is not a method of building up the church. (post #40)
    I definitely do not see myself expressing that
    OK.

    I will not submit, ever, to man leading my prayer, period.
    We would agree that the person leading the prayer is not a substitute for you praying yourself. However, a "lead prayer" does serve the purpose of edification, where you can join in the praise or petition. This is the function Paul is describing in 1 Cor., notwithstanding tongue prayer is the specific example used.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jacob's Ladder
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    I posted that I would be precise and detailed in this post.
    You might not enjoy this ride, but here you go:
    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    I apologize for any miscommunication. I've read each of your posts fully and tried to address your issues with Scripture.
    No need to apologize to me, rather if you still feel a need to apologize then you should offer it to my Master, I am His slave-(in a current process of dying to myself).






    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    If you wouldn't mind replying more specifically why 1 Corinthians 14 doesn't apply to the point you're raising, I may have a better understanding of your position.
    First: I am not raising the point, I raised the point, once.
    Although I am still contending for that point, there is a notable difference between raising a point and contending for a previously-presented point.

    My reply to Corinthians 14 may have been obscure/foggy to you because you tried to associate 'edification' to 'prayer' there.
    ....In my understanding, edification and prayer are not the same thing (not even close), nor do they have the same functional purpose within the body of Christ.
    If you would like to discuss that, I'd be eager to participate in that discussion, but not on this thread here.
    Or, you could do an exhaustive concordance search for those two specific word's call#'s from our bibles to quickly realize the notable-large distinguishing differences between those two words to save yourself and the rest of some valuable time.


    Anyway,
    My several reviews of Corinthians 14 (at your request) still leaves me under the impression that you are equating my stance on my prayer life, you are somehow equating that with 'praying in tongues' ?
    .... That said impression of mine is based on that portion of scripture's only mention of prayer is found in the context-of 'praying in tongues'.
    Although praying in tongues in an orderly fashion as in one prays and then another will interpret, in that order, and in the midst of their congregation for edification of the body of the church/Christ's body.
    What I mean is, Corinthians 14 has nothing at all to do with my stated stance on "prayer is for closets/secret/solitude"

    I have no side to take on that practice, if Paul presents it as biblical, then for me, it is a biblical practice. Although I have briefly attended a church that made efforts to accommodate speaking and praying in tongues corporately, it was because I had moved to a new area and was temporarily living with blood-relative until I could get established in that area.
    But, praying in tongues was not and is still does not have anything to do with what I am presenting to be my stance on "prayers are for closets/secret/solitude". <--- still my stance BTW
    Again: If you would like to discuss praying or speaking in tongues, I'd be eager to participate in that discussion, but not on this thread here.






    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    What I am hearing from you is:
    1) Corporate prayer does not mean having one person pray vocally in a group. (post #32)
    No. Maybe you miss read post #32 then ?
    Here is the portion of the quote below, where I mentioned corporate prayer inside of that post #32:
    Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    You maybe being tripped into assuming just by the use of the word corporate-prayer that it is indicating the prayer is led by an individual just because the prayers in accord with one another.
    The precedent set by most modern western churches of man leading the corporate prayers of a congregation are to blame for that assumption.
    That precedent is not found in most of the rest of the world's modern churches, apart from our modern western churches.
    ....Corporate prayer in no way indicates the prayer is being led by man, even when the example of corporate praying is found in NT scripture.
    And IMO that said precedent is a shame, even a lukewarm-blemish for reasons that have already been expressed in post #26 here on this thread.


    Peace





    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    2) Spirit-lead prayer in a group setting (aka, praying in one accord), is different from (or inferior to) being lead in prayer by one person. (post #34)
    Maybe, depending on your definition of those terms used.
    ....When I use the term Spirit led prayer on this thread, my definition of that was " waiting for the Spirit in me lead me as to or not-to pray over a situation or person, and what the Spirit in me leads me to specifically petition God for in regard that a situation or person.






    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    3) Prayer is not a method of building up the church. (post #40)
    I definitely do not see myself expressing that prayer is not a method of building up the church in the post that you suggested I have (post#40)
    ....I also have not expressed that at anytime in my long life lived either, but more importantly for me: I have not expressed that anywhere on these forums, that I am aware of.

    However, I have expressed and posted here too, that edification-(building-up) and prayer are two largely and notable different things according to their purpose and function in the church/Christ's body. <--- You can find my expression of that thought in the third section of my reply inside of this same current post.






    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    Therefore, though we are in agreement about the operation of corporate prayer (that it's a matter of heart than exact words spoken), we disagree on the usefulness or validity of one spokesperson during the "corporate prayer" (term pending contest).
    Maybe. Again, depending on your definition of the terms that you have just used in this quote above.

    Not sure what you mean by "operation" of corporate prayer. But I can agree that prayer is a matter of the heart, yes.

    Not sure why you so closely associate "usefulness" with "validity" in your postulation upon me here.
    But I will clarify this again: I will not submit, ever, to man leading my prayer, period.
    If I did allow that, then I would be usurping one of the the Holy Spirit's functional-purpose(s) for 'indwelling' me. ie: so I can (personally) be equipped with knowledge of my Father's will, so as to know what "I" should pray for and what God will quickly respond to.






    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    So, I've also given two instances demonstrating that my usage of 1 Corinthians for the topic is appropriate (Joshua, Hannah).
    Would you mind clarifying why these verses are not pertinent to the discussion? Or if they are pertinent, how am I misusing them?:
    I did not see your reply about Hannah as direct at any of my post, that is why I have not responded to that that scripture reference.
    .... As for the Joshua scripture reference, I did reply to it because it was directed at me, maybe you missed it ?
    If so, here is that reply again:
    Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    Hi Aviyah.
    I cannot disagree with what you've shared about Joshua and the Elders in the old covenant era of God's plan of salvation.

    But, that story of Joshua only represents the old covenant era of God's plan of salvation, an era when the Holy Spirit only came upon certain men (usually only kings, judges, priest and prophets) but never did indwell them since after Adam and Eve.
    But as for now in our current era of God's plan of salvation (the new covenant) the Holy Spirit will indwell us now, He will inspires us from within, not from without because He actually dwells inside of us now.
    Not only that but also will indwell 'all' men who will receive God's Lamb.
    ....Hence I still stand firm on biblical reasons for my preference to not have my prayers led by man, but would rather have my prayer inspired from the Holy Spirit that dwells inside of me.

    What I mean by all of that is, I do not deny the power of what my faith in Jesus Christ affords to me.
    Joshua and the Elders were not afforded that same privilege of having God's Spirit indwell them such as we have now.
    I am always going to take full advantage of all of what God affords to us in His new covenant.
    I'll not only take full advantage of that new covenant, but will also proclaim it loudly to whoever watches my faith being applied to my entire life lived, applying all of what Jesus has done for me.
    (אני לא מכחיש את כוחו של רוח האל השוכן בי.)

    So, although I 100% agree with what you've shared with me about Joshua and his men's prayer there, the point you made is moot as an argument against my reasons for standing firm on only praying through what the Holy Spirit inspires from within me, by not allowing my prayers to be led by man.


    Peace





    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    When you are praising God in the Spirit [...] you are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified. (v. 15-17)
    Again, I assume that you are also drawing your conclusion here from your interpretation of Corinthians 14 ?
    If so, then again your are confusing edification and prayer.

    Look: it is not God the Father's nor His Lamb's nor His Spirit's duty to edify our fellow brothers and sister in Christ, we christians are charged with that duty, period.
    ....So, if I petition God in prayer for that to be done then I am behaving sinfully, being a sluggard by shirking my responsibility to edify His brethren in an effort to place that responsibility upon Him. When He has already made it redundantly and abundantly clear that it is our responsibility to edify His brethren, not His responsibility.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aviyah
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    Thank you, I can respond to that.
    God bless you.

    Although I wont be able to get to it as soon as I would like to, I'll try for the next few hours, but possibly not until tomorrow some time. Because I want to be as detailed and precise as possible.
    Not a problem, thanks in advance!

    Leave a comment:


  • Jacob's Ladder
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    I apologize for any miscommunication. I've read each of your posts fully and tried to address your issues with Scripture. If you wouldn't mind replying more specifically why 1 Corinthians 14 doesn't apply to the point you're raising, I may have a better understanding of your position. What I am hearing from you is:

    1) Corporate prayer does not mean having one person pray vocally in a group. (post #32)
    2) Spirit-lead prayer in a group setting (aka, praying in one accord), is different from (or inferior to) being lead in prayer by one person. (post #34)
    3) Prayer is not a method of building up the church. (post #40)

    Therefore, though we are in agreement about the operation of corporate prayer (that it's a matter of heart than exact words spoken), we disagree on the usefulness or validity of one spokesperson during the "corporate prayer" (term pending contest).

    So, I provided Biblical support for distinguishing Spirit-lead, inward, or wordless prayer from spoken, outward, understandable prayer with 1 Corinthians 14. I've also given two instances demonstrating that my usage of 1 Corinthians for the topic is appropriate (Joshua, Hannah).

    Would you mind clarifying why these verses are not pertinent to the discussion? Or if they are pertinent, how am I misusing them?:

    I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding [...] When you are praising God in the Spirit [...] you are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified. (v. 15-17)
    Thank you, I can respond to that.
    God bless you.

    Although I wont be able to get to it as soon as I would like to, I'll try for the next few hours, but possibly not until tomorrow some time. Because I want to be as detailed and precise as possible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aviyah
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    Okay, I am convinced now, where as before I only assumed from our other discussion on a separate thread here. Convinced now that you only see what you are comfortable speaking to, you just cherry pick through what is shared with you like an ungrateful child on their birthday or christmas.

    Oh boy, you're missing out on so muchby allowing your fear(s) to cherry pick your way through life's opportunities of communication and commerce of ideas.

    Peace.
    I apologize for any miscommunication. I've read each of your posts fully and tried to address your issues with Scripture. If you wouldn't mind replying more specifically why 1 Corinthians 14 doesn't apply to the point you're raising, I may have a better understanding of your position. What I am hearing from you is:

    1) Corporate prayer does not mean having one person pray vocally in a group. (post #32)
    2) Spirit-lead prayer in a group setting (aka, praying in one accord), is different from (or inferior to) being lead in prayer by one person. (post #34)
    3) Prayer is not a method of building up the church. (post #40)

    Therefore, though we are in agreement about the operation of corporate prayer (that it's a matter of heart than exact words spoken), we disagree on the usefulness or validity of one spokesperson during the "corporate prayer" (term pending contest).

    So, I provided Biblical support for distinguishing Spirit-lead, inward, or wordless prayer from spoken, outward, understandable prayer with 1 Corinthians 14. I've also given two instances demonstrating that my usage of 1 Corinthians for the topic is appropriate (Joshua, Hannah).

    Would you mind clarifying why these verses are not pertinent to the discussion? Or if they are pertinent, how am I misusing them?:

    I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding [...] When you are praising God in the Spirit [...] you are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified. (v. 15-17)

    Leave a comment:


  • Jacob's Ladder
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    Personal prayer, no, but edification (can include encouragement) is the very point of corporate prayer - as we are all in the Spirit together. Obviously there is power in personal prayer, and even personal prayer in groups where no one is speaking. Of course you know, "where two or more are gathered there I am also." However, I don't think you're grasping Paul's point in distinguishing personal devotion and devotion that edifies others:

    I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding [...] When you are praising God in the Spirit [...] you are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

    In other words, yes of course in silent prayers behind closed doors, you grow closer to God. But just as speaking in tongues without an interpreter has no edification, corporate prayer without any "understanding" has no edification. Because as Paul said, no one can say "Amen" to your inward thanksgiving. No one can rejoice with you or mourn with you if you choose not to translate your Spiritual prayer into a prayer of understanding. To cite Hannah's story again, in fact she was doing exactly this at first - praying in her spirit only. And Eli, though he was another believer, misunderstood her behavior as being due to drunkenness until she explained. Then Eli was able to bless her and she thanked him.

    Agreed, but corporate prayer should not be the extent of your prayer life. Perhaps you're rejecting something Biblical because it is misused?

    Oh boy, you're missing out on so much, then.

    What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? (Luke 11)
    Okay, I am convinced now, where as before I only assumed from our other discussion on a separate thread here. Convinced now that you only see what you are comfortable speaking to, you just cherry pick through what is shared with you like an ungrateful child on their birthday or christmas.

    Oh boy, you're missing out on so muchby allowing your fear(s) to cherry pick your way through life's opportunities of communication and commerce of ideas.


    Peace.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jacob's Ladder
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Brother JL, love the handle. I think you are making a very valid point here about the importance of a personal prayer life. I would also like to suggest, that there might be a difference between corporate prayer and individual prayers. It seems to me, that when Jesus was speaking of the closet, He was addressing something the people had seen the pharisees do... pray in public, personally, for the praise and approval of man.

    Matthew 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

    In other places we see how the Pharisees, who were considered (at least by themselves) to be the spiritual leaders of the day, would pray in the streets to be seen. Jesus was teaching us here, IMO, about how our private prayer life, should indeed be private. But it doesn't seem to address any kind of coporate prayer meeting in this passage.
    I understand what you are saying, but Jesus's commentary-rebuke aimed at the pharisees hypocritical loud public prayers is not the only scriptural instructions (and examples) on how to pray or not to pray.



    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
    You've already discussed other types of corporate prayer in this thread so I'll not repeat them all. But one of my favorites is how the entire body came together to pray, corporately, for Peter.

    Acts 12:4 When he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out before the people. 5 So Peter was kept in the prison, but prayer for him was being made fervently by the church to God.
    Yes, I have already addressed this scriptural rebuttal posed by a different member on this same thread earlier, but I am happy to address it again:
    Yes 100%, it was corporate prayer for protection from imminent danger facing their brother Peter.
    Although, I do not see that example of those christain's corporate prayers as being led by a man or woman, nor public-vocal prayers either.
    ....Maybe when you have more time you can share with me why you do see that example of corporate prayer as being led by a man or woman, and or as being public-vocal prayers ?
    But, there is no doubt in my mind that the Holy Spirit did inspire those prayers in that example, evidenced by God's quick and miraculous response in remedying Peter's eminent danger.

    Or maybe I have just missed something in my recall of that particular story ? ...I have not looked it up to read before my response here.



    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
    We see from this passage, that the local church was praying fervently for Peter. But it is only later, that we see they were doing it together, corporately.

    Acts 12:12 And when he realized this, he went to the house of Mary, the mother of John who was also called Mark, where many were gathered together and were praying. 13 When he knocked at the door of the gate, a servant-girl named Rhoda came to answer. 14 When she recognized Peter's voice, because of her joy she did not open the gate, but ran in and announced that Peter was standing in front of the gate. 15 They said to her, "You are out of your mind!" But she kept insisting that it was so. They kept saying, "It is his angel." 16 But Peter continued knocking; and when they had opened the door, they saw him and were amazed. 17 But motioning to them with his hand to be silent, he described to them how the Lord had led him out of the prison. And he said, "Report these things to James and the brethren." Then he left and went to another place.

    So we see, that God answered the corporate gathering of prayer in a mighty and miraculous way. He blessed it. As for how they were praying, God doesn't tell us. But this we know, all were praying. Were all praying together, out loud at once? I don't know. Were they taking turns, each praying out loud in his turn? I don't know. Were they all praying silently together? I don't know. What we do know, is they were together, corporately, and praying fervently!
    Corporate prayer, it seems to me that every time folks read that term on this thread they default assume and persistently hold on to it meaning an individual's prayers cannot be a corporate prayer just because that individual's words are not word for word copies of other individual's words praying beside him or her.

    When I hear or use the term "corporate prayer", that to me does not exclude silent individual prayers while in a group of other silently praying individuals.
    ....When I hear or use the term "praying in one accord" that to me means the Holy Spirit expresses God's will to be prayed for from within each individual's heart, no matter how many individuals are gathered together to pray, the Holy Spirit keeps their prayers in one accord, in unity as to what they are all praying for being within the expressed will of God.
    What I mean is, for me, what makes corporate prayer corporate (and in one accord): is the Holy Spirit's unity in what is being sought in prayer, not the words inside the prayers, but the aim and purpose of the prayers is what make's it a corporate prayer. (and in one accord/unity)
    I can see needing man to lead a physical-child's prayer life or a man leading very immature/new/young christian's prayer life too.
    But for me personally, No, absolutely not, I don't need man to lead my prayer life and will never have a man lead my prayer life.
    I brought enough oil with me, no need for me purchase any, thank you. (Matthew 25:1–13)

    So, I still will not allow a man to lead me in prayer when the Holy Spirit has already taken that position in my life, taken that position with legal God's word legitimacy.
    Brother Mark, for me it is denying the Power of the Holy Spirit for me to allow a man or a woman to lead my communication with my God in prayer.
    ....I am not making an effort to teach this stance to anyone, but only explaining the scriptural reasons for this being my stance.
    So really Brother Mark, I do not get the sugary-attractive attention given to my stance on this.
    Am I in danger with my stance of Holy Spirit having exclusive reign in my prayer life ?



    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Your posts makes me ponder... do we as a body spend more time praying with others, or more time praying alone with just "me and God"? It is a worthy question. I think, your posts make clear, that scripture paints a habit of prayer that should be far more weighted towards time alone with Him in prayer than a corporate prayer. But I do believe that corporate prayer has a mighty place in the kingdom of God.
    That's fine and probably good, but my intention was not to bring attention to the differences of prayers in solitude and prayers in a group.
    I can be alone in prayer while side by side with my fellows also praying, praying silently helps a lot there though.

    Yeah again about corporate prayer, it seems to me that every time folks read that term on this thread they default assume and persistently hold on to it meaning an individual's prayers cannot be a corporate prayer just because that individual's words are not word for word copies of other's individual's words praying beside him or her.
    So, maybe an agreed upon definition of terms here of corporate prayers and prayers in one accord need to be defined and agreed upon.
    Because so far I see the folks who've responded to my expressed stance here as making large leaping assumptions about what I have been trying to express on this thread.
    Which doesn't offend me, but actually is an eye opener to how powerfully potent the curse of babel still operates on Earth today.
    Sorry, that last comment about babel slipped out of the arm-chair-linguist in me



    Thanks for the interaction Brother Mark.
    And God bless.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aviyah
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    I do not see prayer as a way to encourage the church
    Personal prayer, no, but edification (can include encouragement) is the very point of corporate prayer - as we are all in the Spirit together. Obviously there is power in personal prayer, and even personal prayer in groups where no one is speaking. Of course you know, "where two or more are gathered there I am also." However, I don't think you're grasping Paul's point in distinguishing personal devotion and devotion that edifies others:

    I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding [...] When you are praising God in the Spirit [...] you are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

    In other words, yes of course in silent prayers behind closed doors, you grow closer to God. But just as speaking in tongues without an interpreter has no edification, corporate prayer without any "understanding" has no edification. Because as Paul said, no one can say "Amen" to your inward thanksgiving. No one can rejoice with you or mourn with you if you choose not to translate your Spiritual prayer into a prayer of understanding. To cite Hannah's story again, in fact she was doing exactly this at first - praying in her spirit only. And Eli, though he was another believer, misunderstood her behavior as being due to drunkenness until she explained. Then Eli was able to bless her and she thanked him.

    Depending on a man or woman to lead my prayer life, NO,
    Agreed, but corporate prayer should not be the extent of your prayer life. Perhaps you're rejecting something Biblical because it is misused?

    I actually intentionally do not pray for things for myself
    Oh boy, you're missing out on so much, then.

    What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? (Luke 11)

    Leave a comment:


  • Aviyah
    replied
    Re: Revival praying

    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
    I would like to hear what you have to say about Hannah. Please, if you have time, do share.
    Sure, I'll make a thread about it when I get a chance!

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X