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  • Changing the Contents of the Bible

    When (if ever) would it be appropriate or acceptable for someone to remove, add or remove words in the Bible?
    May The Holy Spirit Guide Us All....

    sigpic
    Peace,
    Thomas
    Kyrie Eleison... Christe Eleison... Kyrie Eleison

  • #2
    Originally posted by Thomas1621 View Post
    When (if ever) would it be appropriate or acceptable for someone to remove, add or remove words in the Bible?
    In one word...never. But...(isn't there always a but??) There is nothing at all wrong with looking up a translated word in the original language and seeing all the meanings of that word. It is possible, that another word (most likely related but more descriptive) will make it easier to understand a passage. I am one who believes that many NT books were written in Hebrew or Aramaic. So when I run into a word that I just can't get a grip on, I like to take the Greek word it is based on back to the Septuigent. (The Greek OT translated before Messiah's time) and find the same word used there. Then, I go to the Hebrew in the same passage and see what Hebrew word the greek is based on. In doing so, I am not changing anything, but using all the texts to help it define itself.

    Peace.
    Ken

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Thomas1621 View Post
      When (if ever) would it be appropriate or acceptable for someone to remove, add or remove words in the Bible?
      Never. Pure and simple.

      Revelation 22
      18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
      Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
      Not second or third, but first.
      Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
      when He is the source of all hope,
      when His love is received and freely given,
      holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
      will all other things be added unto to you.

      Comment


      • #4
        The bible has been added too and words changed to suit the translators. So the answer would be - yes ! But one has to be very careful to not alter the context and consistency of the Word of God.

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        • #5
          I was going to say, don't different translations use different words? So of course different words are used, and I guess when the next translation comes out (whatever that will be), it will have different words than the others.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Thomas1621 View Post
            When (if ever) would it be appropriate or acceptable for someone to remove, add or remove words in the Bible?
            What Bible? What Language? What set of original manuscripts? Like tear a page out of an NIV translation? Write some more words down in the margin?

            Does a paraphrase translation count as adding and removing? How many translations don't paraphrase in some way?

            What is "the Bible"?

            Questions of mine, yours not so easy a question to answer I think.

            Peace,
            Joe

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mysteryman View Post
              The bible has been added too and words changed to suit the translators. So the answer would be - yes ! But one has to be very careful to not alter the context and consistency of the Word of God.
              This is a good point. Changing the wording isn't an issue as long as the content and context don't change. Let me give an example...

              1 Tim 3:16 says "God" was manifested in the flesh. Removing "God" and say "he" lessons the meaning behind the verse, and adds confusion because there is no way to know without doubt it is God you are talking about. That is changing the Word of God.

              But if we said, "God was made obvious in the flesh," that is not changing the Word of God. Made obvious is what manifest means...so if understanding that verse is easier using it the way I just shared, why should anyone care? Nothing has been changed as the MEANING remains the same.

              Peace.
              Ken

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              • #8
                God preserves His word -- despite what humans have done.

                But if we purposefully distort it or mess with it to make it say something that is not there or even use it out of context, then we will face judgement.
                God's grace is not one size fits all, but rather "tailor made" for each person, an intimate, unique and amazing gift that continues to gift itself in countless ways.

                Ephesians 4:4-7 ESV There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call-- one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each one of us (individually) according to the measure of Christ's gift.

                Tea Party Member -- Not a Democrat nor a Republican.

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                • #9
                  Some people have built new deonominations from changed and altered and added words to the translations. They believe that every word is exactly as it should be, so they build their beliefs upon that very fact. While some people love different translations to suit their reading ability, while others use different translations to build a whole new way of reading and looking at the scritpures. Thus altering the true context of the whole Word of God.

                  For instance, and some might disagree, but anyways. Some believe that women can be deacons in the church. The reference either the Strong's concordance or other reference material. Thus rendering a whole new translation in and of itself. They claim the word "deacon" can be male or female. Yet, by this claim they render I Timothy 3:12 as being false, so they alter this verse to make it say what they want it to say. In I Timothy 3:12 it states clearly that a deacon is suppose to be the husband of one wife. Now, if you do a total check of the consistency of the whole Word of God, you would find that I Timothy 3:12 is accurate as the translators translated this verse. But some want the Word of God to say something other than what the consistency of the whole Word of God gives us a picture of what is truth.

                  This is where this becomes very dangerous, yet it is going on today by many different organizations , who claim to be Christians.

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                  • #10
                    I guess the real question boils down to if Revelation 22:18 talks about removing/adding/changing in the sense of concepts, or literal words.

                    Because if it means literal words, we are in trouble. So as long as the Bible is changed, but keeps the same idea/message in each and every verse, then it is ok. But if you change the meaning of a verse, then it is not ok?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mysteryman View Post
                      The bible has been added too and words changed to suit the translators. So the answer would be - yes ! But one has to be very careful to not alter the context and consistency of the Word of God.
                      Allow me to clarify the question, When I say, “When (if ever) would it be appropriate or acceptable for someone to remove verses, add or remove words in the Bible”, I am referring to the original Bible, Latin Vulgate that all Bibles come from. This does not refer to different wording that correlates with credible sources of interpretation because as was already said, sometimes different words can be used to present the same meaning. Such changes in adding a simple word or exchanging one word for another in the Bible that serves as the foundation of all translation is what I am asking.
                      May The Holy Spirit Guide Us All....

                      sigpic
                      Peace,
                      Thomas
                      Kyrie Eleison... Christe Eleison... Kyrie Eleison

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                      • #12
                        If we were expected to be able to read and understand the ancient languages in order to get a single part of scripture - how many of us would be in a huge pickle? We aren't scholars.

                        Those who dedicate their lives to translations and the study of the ancient languages who do that for a living have been given that ability. It's a very weighty and arduous task, taking many many years to compile an accurate translation.

                        If I say don't twist my words, what does that mean to you? Don't make them what they aren't. The fact that there are not always perfect, exact and in some cases any words that match perfectly with English from the Hebrew and Greek is just the way it is. We need to have the meaning, the context, in something we CAN read. Looking to tools such as Strong's can help when we just can't quite understand is a great thing.

                        The thing we need to ask ourselves is the context the same? Looking just at the words, does what we have today reflect the words written thousands of years ago? Most translations do a good job, some better than others, of doing that into a translation that English speaking people of today can understand and discern from. What the words can't get perfect, the revelation and teachings of the Holy Spirit will guide us on.

                        If we have what we each deem to be the "most accurate translation possible" we fool ourselves.
                        Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                        Not second or third, but first.
                        Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                        when He is the source of all hope,
                        when His love is received and freely given,
                        holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                        will all other things be added unto to you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by threebigrocks View Post
                          If we were expected to be able to read and understand the ancient languages in order to get a single part of scripture - how many of us would be in a huge pickle? We aren't scholars.

                          Those who dedicate their lives to translations and the study of the ancient languages who do that for a living have been given that ability. It's a very weighty and arduous task, taking many many years to compile an accurate translation.

                          If I say don't twist my words, what does that mean to you? Don't make them what they aren't. The fact that there are not always perfect, exact and in some cases any words that match perfectly with English from the Hebrew and Greek is just the way it is. We need to have the meaning, the context, in something we CAN read. Looking to tools such as Strong's can help when we just can't quite understand is a great thing.

                          The thing we need to ask ourselves is the context the same? Looking just at the words, does what we have today reflect the words written thousands of years ago? Most translations do a good job, some better than others, of doing that into a translation that English speaking people of today can understand and discern from. What the words can't get perfect, the revelation and teachings of the Holy Spirit will guide us on.

                          If we have what we each deem to be the "most accurate translation possible" we fool ourselves.
                          So its better to follow the translations and interpretations offered by scholars with the most training, experience and credibility rather than self interpreting…
                          May The Holy Spirit Guide Us All....

                          sigpic
                          Peace,
                          Thomas
                          Kyrie Eleison... Christe Eleison... Kyrie Eleison

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Thomas1621 View Post
                            So its better to follow the translations and interpretations offered by scholars with the most training, experience and credibility rather than self interpreting…

                            No, it is better to understand how the translation came about and let the Spirit guide us. Self interpreting is only inviting trouble!

                            Same to be said for those who compile a translation - the Spirit ought to be with them and the team doing the work as they put their hand to the work set before them. Scholars have been given knowledge and passion for what they do. Really, no matter which version or translation we pick up to read - it's a translation. We really have no choice but to trust the one we have before us.
                            Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                            Not second or third, but first.
                            Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                            when He is the source of all hope,
                            when His love is received and freely given,
                            holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                            will all other things be added unto to you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Romber View Post
                              I guess the real question boils down to if Revelation 22:18 talks about removing/adding/changing in the sense of concepts, or literal words.

                              Because if it means literal words, we are in trouble. So as long as the Bible is changed, but keeps the same idea/message in each and every verse, then it is ok. But if you change the meaning of a verse, then it is not ok?
                              But hasen't that happened many times in the past? Look at how many faiths there are today...
                              May The Holy Spirit Guide Us All....

                              sigpic
                              Peace,
                              Thomas
                              Kyrie Eleison... Christe Eleison... Kyrie Eleison

                              Comment

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