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  • Discussion Musical Instruments in Church?

    I came across this church that say's Musical Instruments are Not permitted in church (voices only) they use this verse to say it is so.(Colossians 3:16)

    Has anybody else ever deal with this. It seems so legalist to me. Is it really that cut and dry Thanks
    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But,
    under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program,
    until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

    - Norman Thomas (US Socialist Presidential Candidate)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Hanibal Texter View Post
    I came across this church that say's Musical Instruments are Not permitted in church (voices only) they use this verse to say it is so.(Colossians 3:16)

    Has anybody else ever deal with this. It seems so legalist to me. Is it really that cut and dry Thanks
    I attend a church that believes that, and once you study the scriptures its apparent there is no example of the NT church using instrumental music. Granted it was used in the OT however under the NT we can't find a command, example, or even inferred that the early church worshiped in this manner. Also history shows that same thing we don't see historically any church using interments until around 666 AD.

    "The organ is said to have been first employed in the church during the time of Pope Vitalian I." [c. 666 a.d.] (New International Encyclopedia, Vol. 13, p. 446).

    I would like to type up a complete lesson as to why its not shown in the NT church however I don't have the time at the moment and my apologizes for that. However you can go to the following link and its a pretty good overview of why we don't see or hear of interments in the church until 600+ AD.

    http://www.padfield.com/1994/music.html

    and one more

    http://www.scripturessay.com/article.php?cat=&id=670

    I hope that helps, hopefully I'll have time to come back and add comments later on in the tread. Thanks
    Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

    I use Linux because I don't like Windows

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by uric3 View Post
      I attend a church that believes that, and once you study the scriptures its apparent there is no example of the NT church using instrumental music. Granted it was used in the OT however under the NT we can't find a command, example, or even inferred that the early church worshiped in this manner. Also history shows that same thing we don't see historically any church using interments until around 666 AD.
      So you are saying the Psalms do not apply to Christians?
      My Blog

      Comment


      • #4
        Adding To Gods Word

        Hanibal, they add what they want to think it means to the Bible. It doesn't say not to have music so what they teach is false. The verse
        means to rejoice in your heart to the Lord by singing and praising Him.

        Music with singing is beautiful and annointed.

        In the old Test it talks of David dancing in praise to God for giving him victory over the enemy. ( 2Sam. 6:14 ) Read the other verses how they played music.

        Here is a very long list with scriptures both in the old and new test. to prove music was a very important part of singing and is blessed of God.

        Hope this helps...

        1 Samuel 18:6 And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of MUSICk.

        1 Chronicles 15:16 And David spake to the chief of the Levites to appoint their brethren [to be] the singers with instruments of MUSICk, psalteries and harps and cymbals, sounding, by lifting up the voice with joy.

        1 Chronicles 16:42 And with them Heman and Jeduthun with trumpets and cymbals for those that should make a sound, and with MUSICal instruments of God. And the sons of Jeduthun [were] porters.

        2 Chronicles 5:13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers [were] as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up [their] voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of MUSICk, and praised the LORD, [saying], For [he is] good; for his mercy [endureth] for ever: that [then] the house was filled with a cloud, [even] the house of the LORD;

        2 Chronicles 7:6 And the priests waited on their offices: the Levites also with instruments of MUSICk of the LORD, which David the king had made to praise the LORD, because his mercy [endureth] for ever, when David praised by their ministry; and the priests sounded trumpets before them, and all Israel stood.

        2 Chronicles 23:13 And she looked, and, behold, the king stood at his pillar at the entering in, and the princes and the trumpets by the king: and all the people of the land rejoiced, and sounded with trumpets, also the singers with instruments of MUSICk, and such as taught to sing praise. Then Athaliah rent her clothes, and said, Treason, Treason.

        2 Chronicles 34:12 And the men did the work faithfully: and the overseers of them [were] Jahath and Obadiah, the Levites, of the sons of Merari; and Zechariah and Meshullam, of the sons of the Kohathites, to set [it] forward; and [other of] the Levites, all that could skill of instruments of MUSICk.

        Nehemiah 12:36 And his brethren, Shemaiah, and Azarael, Milalai, Gilalai, Maai, Nethaneel, and Judah, Hanani, with the MUSICal instruments of David the man of God, and Ezra the scribe before them.

        Psalms 4:1 Hear me when I call, O God of my righteousness: thou hast enlarged me [when I was] in distress; have mercy upon me, and hear my prayer.

        Psalms 5:1 Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.

        Psalms 6:1 O LORD, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.

        Psalms 8:1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent [is] thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

        Psalms 9:1 I will praise [thee], O LORD, with my whole heart; I will shew forth all thy marvellous works.

        Psalms 11:1 In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee [as] a bird to your mountain?

        Psalms 12:1 Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

        Psalms 13:1 How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?

        Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.

        Psalms 18:1 I will love thee, O LORD, my strength.

        Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

        Psalms 20:1 The LORD hear thee in the day of trouble; the name of the God of Jacob defend thee;

        Psalms 21:1 The king shall joy in thy strength, O LORD; and in thy salvation how greatly shall he rejoice!

        Psalms 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [why art thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring?

        Psalms 31:1 In thee, O LORD, do I put my trust; let me never be ashamed: deliver me in thy righteousness.

        Psalms 36:1 The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, [that there is] no fear of God before his eyes.

        Psalms 39:1 I said, I will take heed to my ways, that I sin not with my tongue: I will keep my mouth with a bridle, while the wicked is before me.

        Psalms 40:1 I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.

        Psalms 41:1 Blessed [is] he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.

        Psalms 42:1 As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.

        Psalms 44:1 We have heard with our ears, O God, our fathers have told us, [what] work thou didst in their days, in the times of old.

        Psalms 45:1 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue [is] the pen of a ready writer.

        Psalms 46:1 God [is] our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

        Psalms 47:1 O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph.

        Psalms 49:1 Hear this, all [ye] people; give ear, all [ye] inhabitants of the world:

        Psalms 51:1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

        Psalms 52:1 Why boastest thou thyself in mischief, O mighty man? the goodness of God [endureth] continually.

        Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: [there is] none that doeth good.

        Psalms 54:1 Save me, O God, by thy name, and judge me by thy strength.

        Psalms 55:1 Give ear to my prayer, O God; and hide not thyself from my supplication.

        Psalms 56:1 Be merciful unto me, O God: for man would swallow me up; he fighting daily oppresseth me.

        Psalms 57:1 Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until [these] calamities be overpast.

        Psalms 58:1 Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?

        Psalms 59:1 Deliver me from mine enemies, O my God: defend me from them that rise up against me.

        Psalms 60:1 O God, thou hast cast us off, thou hast scattered us, thou hast been displeased; O turn thyself to us again.

        Psalms 61:1 Hear my cry, O God; attend unto my prayer.

        Psalms 62:1 Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him [cometh] my salvation.

        Psalms 64:1 Hear my voice, O God, in my prayer: preserve my life from fear of the enemy.

        Psalms 65:1 Praise waiteth for thee, O God, in Sion: and unto thee shall the vow be performed.

        Psalms 66:1 Make a joyful noise unto God, all ye lands:

        Psalms 67:1 God be merciful unto us, and bless us; [and] cause his face to shine upon us; Selah.

        Psalms 68:1 Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.

        Psalms 69:1 Save me, O God; for the waters are come in unto [my] soul.

        Psalms 70:1 [Make haste], O God, to deliver me; make haste to help me, O LORD.

        Psalms 75:1 Unto thee, O God, do we give thanks, [unto thee] do we give thanks: for [that] thy name is near thy wondrous works declare.

        Psalms 76:1 In Judah [is] God known: his name [is] great in Israel.

        Psalms 77:1 I cried unto God with my voice, [even] unto God with my voice; and he gave ear unto me.

        Psalms 80:1 Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest [between] the cherubims, shine forth.

        Psalms 81:1 Sing aloud unto God our strength: make a joyful noise unto the God of Jacob.

        Psalms 84:1 How amiable [are] thy tabernacles, O LORD of hosts!

        Psalms 85:1 LORD, thou hast been favourable unto thy land: thou hast brought back the captivity of Jacob.

        Psalms 88:1 <A the chief MUSICian Psalm of upon to for sons Korah, Song [or] Mahalath Leannoth, Maschil Heman Ezrahite.>O LORD God of my salvation, I have cried day [and] night before thee:

        Psalms 109:1 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;

        Psalms 139:1 O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known [me].

        Psalms 140:1 Deliver me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent man;

        Ecclesiastes 2:8 I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, [as] MUSICal instruments, and that of all sorts.

        Ecclesiastes 12:4 And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of MUSICk shall be brought low;

        Lamentations 3:63 Behold their sitting down, and their rising up; I [am] their MUSICk.

        Lamentations 5:14 The elders have ceased from the gate, the young men from their MUSICk.

        Daniel 3:5 [That] at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of MUSICk, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:

        Daniel 3:7 Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of MUSICk, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down [and] worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.

        Daniel 3:10 Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of MUSICk, shall fall down and worship the golden image:

        Daniel 3:15 Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of MUSICk, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; [well]: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who [is] that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?

        Daniel 6:18 Then the king went to his palace, and passed the night fasting: neither were instruments of MUSICk brought before him: and his sleep went from him.

        Amos 6:5 That chant to the sound of the viol, [and] invent to themselves instruments of MUSICk, like David;

        Luke 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard MUSICk and dancing.

        Revelation 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and MUSICians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft [he be], shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
        Jesus saith unto him, I AM THE WAY, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ( John 14:6 )

        For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and "if it first begin at us," what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? ( 1Pet 4:17,18 ) (Pray for Revival)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by uric3 View Post
          I attend a church that believes that, and once you study the scriptures its apparent there is no example of the NT church using instrumental music. Granted it was used in the OT however under the NT we can't find a command, example, or even inferred that the early church worshiped in this manner. Also history shows that same thing we don't see historically any church using interments until around 666 AD.

          "The organ is said to have been first employed in the church during the time of Pope Vitalian I." [c. 666 a.d.] (New International Encyclopedia, Vol. 13, p. 446).

          I would like to type up a complete lesson as to why its not shown in the NT church however I don't have the time at the moment and my apologizes for that. However you can go to the following link and its a pretty good overview of why we don't see or hear of interments in the church until 600+ AD.

          http://www.padfield.com/1994/music.html

          and one more

          http://www.scripturessay.com/article.php?cat=&id=670

          I hope that helps, hopefully I'll have time to come back and add comments later on in the tread. Thanks
          I also don't see them using electric lights, or Sunday school literature, pews, or heating and air condition.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mikebr View Post
            I also don't see them using electric lights, or Sunday school literature, pews, or heating and air condition.
            neither piano, or electricity... lol
            We are his body, We are his representative, We are the extension of God to the earth. Every action should be a extension of God's love.

            Comment


            • #7
              Much Thanks

              I am reading and getting different view points to look at. Thank You!!
              "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But,
              under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program,
              until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

              - Norman Thomas (US Socialist Presidential Candidate)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Whispering Grace View Post
                So you are saying the Psalms do not apply to Christians?
                They are part of the Old Law / OT which was done away according to Col 2:13-ff as well as 2 Cor 3:7-11 etc...

                How do we know that Psalms is part of of the Old law?

                John 10:34 "34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'?" The passage that Jesus is quoting is Psalm 82:6 and Jesus himself noted it as Jewish Law.

                Note: I'm not stating the the OL / OT is useless obviously we can learn a lot from it... however we don't follow its laws and worship as they worshiped we follow the NT order of things now.

                So in short yes the Psalms do not apply to the Christian as law either.
                Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

                I use Linux because I don't like Windows

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                  I also don't see them using electric lights, or Sunday school literature, pews, or heating and air condition.
                  I understand what you are stating however that isn't part of worship and oil lamp and a bulb do the same job they are just a light so we can see to worship.

                  I guess if studying a lesson for Sunday school off of paper isn't how we can share scripture we shouldn't have the Bible since they didn't have Bibles... its a piece of paper with Bible verses on it... no change in worship.

                  For the heating same as the fire places they used to keep warm... no change in worship...

                  Instruments Psalm 82:6 Instruments do change worship God ask for singing... and singing only why would God want a man made instruments for praise when he created each and every one a voice to praise him with...

                  We are all commanded to sing. Eph 5:19 and Col 3:16 so if you take those passages to include interments then shouldn't everyone have an interments? To fulfill what the verse ask for which is for everyone to do it?

                  Its obvious that it isn't talking about instruments because as pointed out they never even entered into worship until 666AD also no terms in those passages deal with instruments in anyway...

                  So where in the NT do you have an example, a command or it even inferred they were used during NT worship...

                  The answer is you can't... if you could I would pick up my drum set and go for it because I want to do exactly what God ask of me. Thus I don't go beyond what God wants me to do so I can please him.
                  Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

                  I use Linux because I don't like Windows

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Why do you think that harps are used in Revelation?

                    An instrument can help people stay on key.
                    http://prophecyinsights.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vinsight4u8 View Post
                      Why do you think that harps are used in Revelation?

                      An instrument can help people stay on key.
                      Honestly I'll have to get back to you on that one... two things I can think of off the top of my head.

                      1. This is in a heavenly scene so its different that worship on earth.
                      2. Revelation everything is symbolic so is it really a harp? We see in Rev 1 that a candlestick represents a church... so who is to say for sure that its really a harp.

                      I plan to come back with a more in detail answer to this one, later as time permits.
                      Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

                      I use Linux because I don't like Windows

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Okay I was going to stay out of this but I cant. I love music. I love the Praise Band at my church. Without the Praise Band the service would be dull and boring. Me and my kids love CCM and even my 10 yr old son is learning the electric guitar so he can play in the Praise Band this coming spring. Music is the spice of life without music there is no rhythm in life and it is mentioned in Psalms and Proverbs about how important music is. David played a harp and through the bible it talks of various instruments being played. I will also add that if I went to a church that did not have music that would be the last time I attend that church. Music ministers to the soul.
                        "But out of the unfathomable mercies of God, what you stand to gain if you're willing to lift up your hands to Him is astonishing." Beth Moore from her book "Get Out of that Pit"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is not my writing however I thought it answered several questions Jack Thompson wrote this and I am just copying his work since I don't have time to type it up my self. I highlighted in black the answers to Rev and the last post. Very interesting read for those who want to take time to do so...

                          Another comes along and says, "We have instruments in our Homes,
                          why can't we have them in the church." We have a lot of things in our
                          homes that we cannot bring into the worship of God's people. We have
                          ice cream and cake, fried chicken at home, but who would be willing to
                          bring them into the worship of God and put them on the Lord's Table as
                          a part of the Lord's Supper. Ice cream and cake might satisfy the
                          flesh more, but they would not please Jehovah. There are things that
                          a husband and wife can participate in at home, but surely, no one
                          would suggest that these would be permissible in our public worship to
                          our God. There is nothing wrong with the piano or organ in our homes,
                          but, where is the authority to bring them into the house of God?

                          Another says, "There are instruments in heaven. Look at
                          Revelation 14, It says there were harpers harping with their harps.
                          Don't you see, there are harps in heaven. And if there are harps in
                          heaven, surely we can use them in worship to God today." My friend,
                          you have misread that passage. Let us look at it closer. John says,
                          "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as
                          the voice of a great thunder; and the voice which I heard was as the
                          voice of harpers harping of their harps: and they sing as it was a new
                          song before the throne..." (Revelation 14:2-3). What did John hear?
                          John heard a VOICE. That voice was singing. The sound that John heard
                          sounded as "Many waters," as "Great Thunder," as "harpers harping."
                          No, my friend, John did not hear harps, nor waters, nor thunder. John
                          heard a voice, and that voice was singing. But, also, John saw a lot
                          of things in His Vision. Were they literal? John saw horses, golden
                          bowls. Were they literal? Can you imagine a spiritual being playing
                          upon a material harp? This is really stretching something to justify
                          mechanical instruments in worship today by twisting John's vision in
                          Revelation. But, even if you could locate harps in heaven, you still
                          have not found authority for them in worship today.


                          Someone else says, "Mechanical instruments are an aid to
                          singing." My question is very simple. An aid to what? Do they help
                          us to teach and admonish? Very often the instrument even drowns out
                          the teaching that is done. The words cannot be heard. Instruments are
                          not an aid. They are an addition. There are two kinds of music: Vocal
                          and mechanical. God commands vocal--SING. Man comes along and adds
                          mechanical instruments. My friend, God's ways do not need aids.
                          Isn't it strange how man wants to improve of God's way of doing
                          things; never content to do things that the Lord commands the way that
                          He commanded. An illustration just here: You see a man with a walking
                          stick. The walking stick is an aid to walking. The man gets in a car.
                          The car is not an aid to walking; it is another method of movement. So
                          likewise, mechanical instruments of music are additions to God's
                          commands. And additions made by man have always been condemned by the
                          Lord. When one says the instrument is an aid, he is appealing to human
                          logic. He is not looking for authority.

                          Another says, "The Bible does not say not to use mechanical
                          instruments in our worship." Question. Can we do anything or
                          everything that the Bible does not specifically condemn? God's book
                          tells man how to worship, not how not to worship. Granted there are
                          some negatives. But, think what the Lord would have had to say if He
                          covered all of the "thou shalt not...." Another point just here. There
                          is a vast difference between Generic and Specific authority. When the
                          Lord spoke to Noah in Genesis 6, He told Noah to build the ark out of
                          "gopher wood." That is specific authority. If He had told Noah, "Make
                          the ark out of wood," that would have been generic authority, and Noah
                          could have used any kind of wood that he had available. When the Lord
                          said, "Gopher wood," that eliminated all other kind of wood. He did
                          not have to tell Noah, "Now do not use oak, do not use pine, do not
                          use cedar, do not use ash," and on and on we could go. By specifying
                          "gopher wood," He left all the others out. When the Lord said "Sing,"
                          He eliminated any other kind of music, and that includes mechanical
                          instruments of music. Again, we need to recognize the silence of God's
                          word. Where God has not spoken, man has no right to come along and say
                          "Well, since the Lord has not told us, we are free to do whatever we
                          wish to do, just whatever seems right to us." Oh, No!! If that is so,
                          then each person becomes their own authority and we can do just
                          anything that we wish. God's commandments include all that they teach
                          and they exclude all else. It is tragic that man has never learned
                          this lesson.

                          Occasionally, the argument is made that says the work "Psallo, as
                          is used in Ephesians 5:19, includes a mechanical instrument." Again, I
                          must differ with this conclusion. True, the word, "Psallo," by
                          definition means, "to twing, to pluck," but the instrument that is to
                          be twinged, or plucked is always mentioned in the context, it always
                          accompanies the verb. In Ephesians 5:19, what is to be twinged or
                          plucked? Paul says it is the heart. Hear him: "speaking one to
                          another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making
                          melody with your heart to the Lord." When the King James Version of
                          the Bible was being translated, the translators (composed of 54 of the
                          leading scholars of the world) looked at the word "Psallo," and gave
                          it the translation, "SING." When the American Standard translation
                          was being made, 101 scholars looked at "Psallo," and translated it,
                          "SING." That should tell us something. And to my knowledge, no
                          translation that is consider dependable has ever translated the word
                          "Psallo," to mean "PLAY."

                          Someone else comes along and says, "I like mechanical
                          instrumental music in worship." Now, that one I have no answer for. I
                          simply cannot respond to anyone who says, "I am doing this because I
                          like it. I do not have any desire to find Bible authority. I do not
                          care what God's Word says. I know I like this and I am going to do
                          it." What can one say about that kind of attitude. About all I can say
                          is, "Does the Lord like it?" If you say, "Yes," I ask, How do you
                          know? Has He told you? Has He given you some special revelation? Just
                          how do you know that the Lord approves of it? If He has not told you,
                          and no where do you find it in His Book, are you not taking a big
                          chance on eternity to stand before Jehovah with the excuse, "I did
                          that because I liked it"?

                          My friends in this radio audience; do we need authority for all
                          that we do in religion. Or, are we at liberty to just do anything
                          that seems right to us? If this is so, each person becomes God's law
                          to himself or herself--Just do what please self. In Proverbs 14:12,
                          the prophet says, "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; But
                          the end thereof are the ways of death." Let us not rest our eternal
                          destiny up what seems good to me. Rather, let us rest our eternal
                          destiny upon "a thus saith the Lord." Jesus states, "the word that I
                          spake, the same shall judge him in the last day" (John 12:48). May we
                          all ask the question, "Lord what would you have me to do?"
                          Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

                          I use Linux because I don't like Windows

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by uric3 View Post
                            They are part of the Old Law / OT which was done away according to Col 2:13-ff as well as 2 Cor 3:7-11 etc...

                            How do we know that Psalms is part of of the Old law?

                            John 10:34 "34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'?" The passage that Jesus is quoting is Psalm 82:6 and Jesus himself noted it as Jewish Law.

                            Note: I'm not stating the the OL / OT is useless obviously we can learn a lot from it... however we don't follow its laws and worship as they worshiped we follow the NT order of things now.

                            So in short yes the Psalms do not apply to the Christian as law either.
                            Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus says, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
                            You were made to think. It will do you good to think; to develop your powers by study. God designed that religion should require thought, intense thought, and should thoroughly develop our powers of thought.

                            Charles G Finney



                            http://holyrokker.blogspot.com

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by holyrokker View Post
                              Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus says, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
                              I never said the OT was abolished we just don't follow its laws and commands any longer however we can still study and learn from it we just don't offer a yearly sacrifice, burn insense,etc.... Look at the trouble it caused in Acts 15... also look at the warning in Gal 5:1-5 if you're going to take you must be circumcised then you might as well start offering up that Ox because Christ doesn't prophet you anything.

                              I tihnk you could say if you take burning insense you might as well keep you must be circumcised. Because as stated in Gal 5:3 "...that he is a debtor to do the whole law."

                              So if you take instruments you might as well get that Ox ready... because you just can't find it in the NT. Nor in history until 666AD...
                              Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

                              I use Linux because I don't like Windows

                              Comment

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