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The Devil - Internal or External?

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  • #31
    As others have said he is a very real being, not metaphorical in the slightest. I have psychiatric issues and even my psychiatrist, as risky as it was for him (I had been under the impression that I was the devil it is a long story I had a mental break) told me he was very real and that he wanted me to believe these things. He'd love for you to forget that fact however.

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    • #32
      Hi John, you are dealing with a Christadelphian. If Satan is internal, than that means Jesus has a sin nature and He could not be the Lamb of God without stain or blemish.

      1 Peter 1:19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

      1 Peter 1:19 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
      19 You were bought with the precious blood of Christ’s death. He was a pure and perfect sacrificial Lamb.

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      • #33
        concerning Peter being called Satan. The word satan can mean simply adversary. Jesus was calling Peter an adversary in that text.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
          concerning Peter being called Satan. The word satan can mean simply adversary. Jesus was calling Peter an adversary in that text.
          Or Jesus was revealing where the words were really coming from. Earlier in the same passage, Jesus said to Peter "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you..." Meaning God had given Peter a revelation. Often in our walk with the Lord, we are not able to discern, early on, the difference between what the enemy says and what God says. Over time, it becomes more and more evident. While it is true we will not follow a voice other than God's, we can sure be momentarily led astray by a different voice.

          God bless!
          Matt 9:13
          13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
          NASU

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          • #35
            There is no need to say it is Satan, when the human flesh is enough to explain it.

            Matthew 16:21-23 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
            His Death and Resurrection Predicted
            21 From then on Jesus began to point out to his disciples that it was necessary for him to go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders, chief priests, and scribes, be killed, and be raised the third day. 22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, “Oh no,[a] Lord! This will never happen to you!”

            23 Jesus turned and told Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me because you’re not thinking about God’s concerns but human concerns.”

            Mark 8:27-33 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
            Peter’s Confession of the Messiah
            27 Jesus went out with his disciples to the villages of Caesarea Philippi. And on the road he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that I am?”

            28 They answered him, “John the Baptist; others, Elijah; still others, one of the prophets.”

            29 “But you,” he asked them, “who do you say that I am?”

            Peter answered him, “You are the Messiah.” 30 And he strictly warned them to tell no one about him.

            His Death and Resurrection Predicted
            31 Then he began to teach them that it was necessary for the Son of Man to suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and scribes, be killed, and rise after three days. 32 He spoke openly about this. Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But turning around and looking at his disciples, he rebuked Peter and said, “Get behind me, Satan! You are not thinking about God’s concerns[a] but human concerns.”

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            • #36
              Originally posted by JohnDoe View Post
              Hi

              I define myself as a Christian, but I am have still a lot to learn about the Christian scriptures.

              I have always believed the Devil to be an external being, a fallen angel.

              However; I have also read a Bible Study where the author strongly argues that the Devil is not an external being, but instead an integrated part of ones own being. The author states that the view of a Devil as an external being, is not correct.

              What is the general opinion on this issue?
              =============
              Satan is a spirit. Thus he can be anywhere God allows. Study Job for exact details.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by TMarcum View Post
                The common concepts of Satan being a fallen angel from heaven are all Pagan mythology. There are no bible references that refer to Satan being in heaven. However, there are several proverbs, lamentations and revelations given that relate events in the bible times to Kings that exalted themselves above God. And God sent message to them prophecy by prophets, letting them know their kingdoms will be overthrown. But the topic was not on Satan but on the Leaders who ascended so high into heaven that they were cut down to hell.
                Jesus in Luke 10:18 said He beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. I guess you haven't read that. There is a New Testament also, not just Torah, the first five books of Moses.

                Like I showed before, in Ezekiel 28 God is speaking of one who was in His Garden of Eden, and is a cherub that covereth. A cherub is NEVER a flesh man. Nor was any flesh man in God's Garden of Eden, beside the man Adam.

                So prove what you say with Scripture, because I have already proven from Ezekiel 28 that Satan, a cherub, is who God was actually pointing to metaphorically in that chapter.

                With the Isaiah 14 example, God began letting us know He was giving an allegory, when He said, "... take up this proverb against the king of Babylon...". Then with Isaiah 14:12 He begins speaking emphatically about Satan, using his owns words of what he claimed he would do.

                What you apparently have yet to understand is the 'idea' of others wanting to be GOD began with what Satan did in the time of old, when he first rebelled against God and drew a third of the angels (stars) into rebellion with him. God destroyed that time of old when he did that, and then God began this present world for His Son to be born through woman and die on the cross, to defeat both Satan and death for those who believe (1 John 3:8; Hebrews 2:14; Galatians 3:22).

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by JohnDoe View Post
                  Hi

                  I define myself as a Christian, but I am have still a lot to learn about the Christian scriptures.

                  I have always believed the Devil to be an external being, a fallen angel.

                  However; I have also read a Bible Study where the author strongly argues that the Devil is not an external being, but instead an integrated part of ones own being. The author states that the view of a Devil as an external being, is not correct.

                  What is the general opinion on this issue?
                  Obviously, an evil being, who has led a rebellion against God, affecting the earth, is not something God has much interest in having us focus on. He has enticed Man to follow him in his rebellion against God, and now, Man does not even need his help to want to live autonomously, independent of God's word.

                  Some people feel the devil is virtually omnipresent and blame him for all the ills in the world. That isn't true. He is just one limited being, as we are as men, individually. But he has a host of companions who share in his rebellion, and these are called "demons." Neither does God want us to focus on them.

                  These things are nevertheless a reality, and we have to know about them. If Satan has led us wrong once, he will do it again. We just have to decide what side we're on. Good luck on deciding "how Christian" you want to be!

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                  • #39
                    Those who don't understand that Satan, that old serpent, the devil, Lucifer, (he has many titles), is an actual real entity, and not just some evil force. It's the occultists that do not believe in a literal devil. They believe in the idea of polar opposites, like it's a science thing only, and that's where the idea of evil dwelling as a force inside us comes from.

                    So what's an entity in the sense of the being of Satan?

                    God's Word points to God having created him as an 'anointed cherub that covereth', the idea being he was created to cover the Mercy Seat, i.e., God's Throne. Instead of protecting it, Satan coveted it and wanted to be The GOD instead. That is how he originally fell. God said that He originally created Satan perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him. All this is given metaphorically about Satan in the Ezekiel 28 chapter.

                    Thus what God's Word teaches is not about polar opposites, as if Satan has the same power and authority as our Heavenly Father. God is simply 'using'... Satan as a punishing rod for this present world, like a whipping switch torn off a tree. When God is done with it He is going to through that old switch in the fire.

                    Still some may struggle with Satan being an entity.

                    No problem. To understand one MUST first forget what Hollywood and TV, and much of what the public school systems teach, and listen to God's Word...

                    Heb 11:3
                    3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
                    KJV


                    That says 'things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.' Man's science recognizes that fact. It has to do with the fact in physics that material matter can neither be created, nor destroyed, it only can change its state (solid, liquid, gas, vapor).

                    That means material matter did not, and cannot create itself.

                    If matter didn't create itself, then what created it?

                    That what is called GOD, our Heavenly Father. John 4 says He is "a Spirit". The world of Spirit is invisible to our flesh naked eye. Yet this law of physics, which is what that Hebrews verse is describing, is proof that GOD exists, because the mere existence of this world of material matter is proof that something other... something invisible not made of matter, created it. Atheists and evolutionists can babble all they want about the earth and material matter, but they still have to admit that it did not 'create' itself, for that would be denying the first law of thermodynamics.

                    Ultimately then, there exists both this earthly dimension which is God's creation involving material matter, and it extends to the farthest reaches of the universe, makes up the planets, stars, galaxies, etc.

                    And then there is the dimension of Spirit, Heaven, which right now is invisible to the naked eye (unless God allows you to see like He did with Isaiah in Isaiah 6).

                    Which dimension is the MORE real? Difficult question for those who think their soul is made up of the material matter from this earth.

                    Heaven, the dimension of Spirit is the more real, because by Spirit through His Son is how the worlds were created (Hebrews).

                    Yet God said He created this earth to be inhabited (Isaiah 45:18). He is going to open up the Heavenly dimension here on earth when His Son returns, and then everyone will 'know' what is true Reality, and about the existence of entities made up of Spirit with no need of flesh.









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                    • #40
                      Here is a related question that bears thought.

                      " 'The world'... internal or external?"

                      I've thought about "time", and how modern physics calls it, "illusory".
                      The material and organic world is ensconced in "space/time".
                      Seems to me also that time began in the sense we experience it today, at the fall in the Garden.

                      A question I've asked elsewhere is, "Do humanity's origins lie in the spirit, and angelic?"
                      Last edited by Sirius18; Mar 29 2020, 11:07 PM. Reason: Clarity

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by DavePeace View Post

                        Jesus in Luke 10:18 said He beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. I guess you haven't read that. There is a New Testament also, not just Torah, the first five books of Moses.
                        I know the verse well. But Jesus did not say that he fell from heaven. Jesus was describing Satan's nature in an allegory. Read it carefully, because Jesus said he beheld him "as" lightning.
                        He was comparing him to lightening, and not as a fallen angel. Otherwise, Jesus would have said directly, that Satan was from heaven.

                        Luke 10
                        17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
                        18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

                        Originally posted by DavePeace View Post

                        Like I showed before, in Ezekiel 28 God is speaking of one who was in His Garden of Eden, and is a cherub that covereth. A cherub is NEVER a flesh man. Nor was any flesh man in God's Garden of Eden, beside the man Adam.

                        So prove what you say with Scripture, because I have already proven from Ezekiel 28 that Satan, a cherub, is who God was actually pointing to metaphorically in that chapter.
                        I agree with this description of Satan. He indeed was in the Garden of Eden. That's where he was created. But I never stated that Satan was a flesh man.


                        Originally posted by DavePeace View Post

                        With the Isaiah 14 example, God began letting us know He was giving an allegory, when He said, "... take up this proverb against the king of Babylon...". Then with Isaiah 14:12 He begins speaking emphatically about Satan, using his owns words of what he claimed he would do.
                        The proverb was to the king, and he made it clear that he ascended up into heaven before he had fallen to the earth.

                        Originally posted by DavePeace View Post

                        What you apparently have yet to understand is the 'idea' of others wanting to be GOD began with what Satan did in the time of old, when he first rebelled against God and drew a third of the angels (stars) into rebellion with him. God destroyed that time of old when he did that, and then God began this present world for His Son to be born through woman and die on the cross, to defeat both Satan and death for those who believe (1 John 3:8; Hebrews 2:14; Galatians 3:22).
                        I realize Satan wants power. He seeks after mankind to worship him. He even tried to get Jesus to bow down and worship him.

                        But none of your points provides any evidence that Satan was ever in God's heaven. The heaven of your reference is the 1st heaven mentioned in Genesis 1:8. This is the heaven where lightening comes from. It's called "the atmosphere". This is also the same heaven mentioned in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28.


                        Genesis 1
                        6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
                        7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
                        8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.



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                        • #42
                          Does anyone see that the devil, being internal, links up with Far Eastern teachings?

                          Jesus was at the end, fasting after 40 days, when He had His experience with the devil?

                          That Ego... being related with the Survival Instinct, is the root of all sin?

                          The Christian has it's origin and roots in the greater reality and truth. Namely the timeless, or eternity.
                          Last edited by Sirius18; Apr 29 2020, 03:28 PM. Reason: Clarity

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