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  • TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

    LOS ANGELES (AP) -- A man toting a semi-automatic rifle, some 150 rounds of ammunition and a grudge against TSA agents shot his way past a security checkpoint at Los Angeles International Airport in a deadly rampage that sent hundreds of travelers fleeing in terror.


    When the shooting stopped, a Transportation Security Administration officer was dead. Gerardo I. Hernandez, 39, became the first TSA officer in the agency's 12-year history to be killed in the line of duty.

    ...

    The official, who was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said the note referred to how the gunman believed his constitutional rights were being violated by TSA searches and that he was a "pissed-off patriot" upset at former Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.

    Associated Press story here.

    It is sad that man died, but look at what they say about the shooter. Prepare to have your rights taken away, and to be scrutinized for scrutinizing the government.
    John 10 (KJV)
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

  • #2
    Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

    Wasn't the gun he used banned in California?
    我们有这盼望,就像灵魂的锚,又稳当又坚固,通过幔子直进到里面。
    This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and reliable...
    (Hebrews 6:19 CNV / NASB)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

      Looks like he was on a suicide mission. At least this is what I'm thinking.
      My favorite quotes from my favorite people

      "It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me - Batman/Batman Begins"

      "You got to learn to love yourself" - Grandma

      "I am, who I am; deal with it." - Me

      "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me" - Jesus Christ

      "Whatever" - Mama

      "Ugh!!!!" - Baby Sister

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

        Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
        Wasn't the gun he used banned in California?
        All of the handguns and grenades used in murders in England are banned, as well.

        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...internalSearch

        Seems that bans just don't work.
        JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
        JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

          Originally posted by dan View Post
          All of the handguns and grenades used in murders in England are banned, as well.

          http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...internalSearch

          Seems that bans just don't work.
          Depends what you mean by "work". A bunch of people get killed in cars every day, that does not mean seat belts don't work. The question is more whether the bans mean LESS people are killed.

          Lots of people die in the USA from heroin OD. Does that mean the drug laws "just don't work"?

          Also, from a point of pedantry, not ALL the guns used in UK murders are banned.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

            Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
            Depends what you mean by "work". A bunch of people get killed in cars every day, that does not mean seat belts don't work. The question is more whether the bans mean LESS people are killed.
            The problem with that thinking is many times the "gun" deaths may fall but "other" methods rise, so, the overall number of deaths stays the same.

            Which is why the sensible researchers will tell you:

            "This review of violent crime trends in the United Kingdom, Australia and Canada found that in the years following the introduction of British-style gun laws, despite massive increases in governmental bureaucracy, total homicide rates either increased or remained stable. Similar trends were observed in total violent crime. Importantly, in not one of these countries did the new gun laws appear to result in a decrease in total homicide rates despite the enormous costs to taxpayers. The situation is even clearer in the Republic of Ireland and Jamaica where violent crime, particularly murder, became much worse after the bans in both countries. Clearly, the factors driving the increasing rates of violent crime, e.g., organized crime or terrorism, were not curtailed by British style gun laws."-Dr. Gary Mauser in "Ekos Critique Mauser"

            But, enabling the citizens to carry concealed weapons DOES REDUCE innocent deaths:

            "Overall, Pennsylvania's results provide more evidence that concealed handgun ownership reduces violent crime, murder, rape, aggravated assault, and burglary. For Oregon, murder and larceny decrease."-John Lott in "More Guns, Less Crime" Pg 109.

            Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
            Also, from a point of pedantry, not ALL the guns used in UK murders are banned.
            Not all the judges are willing to go along with outlawing self-defense in Britain either, from what I gather.
            JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
            JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

              Originally posted by dan View Post
              The problem with that thinking is many times the "gun" deaths may fall but "other" methods rise, so, the overall number of deaths stays the same.

              Which is why the sensible researchers will tell you:

              "This review of violent crime trends in the United Kingdom, Australia and Canada found that in the years following the introduction of British-style gun laws, despite massive increases in governmental bureaucracy, total homicide rates either increased or remained stable. Similar trends were observed in total violent crime. Importantly, in not one of these countries did the new gun laws appear to result in a decrease in total homicide rates despite the enormous costs to taxpayers. The situation is even clearer in the Republic of Ireland and Jamaica where violent crime, particularly murder, became much worse after the bans in both countries. Clearly, the factors driving the increasing rates of violent crime, e.g., organized crime or terrorism, were not curtailed by British style gun laws."-Dr. Gary Mauser in "Ekos Critique Mauser"

              But, enabling the citizens to carry concealed weapons DOES REDUCE innocent deaths:

              "Overall, Pennsylvania's results provide more evidence that concealed handgun ownership reduces violent crime, murder, rape, aggravated assault, and burglary. For Oregon, murder and larceny decrease."-John Lott in "More Guns, Less Crime" Pg 109.



              Not all the judges are willing to go along with outlawing self-defense in Britain either, from what I gather.
              That's certainly true.

              You're entitled to your view of course, but I tend to think the whole issue is rather more complex than "bans don't work" or indeed "bans DO work". One can't really compare countries because you are never comparing like with like and one never knows what would have happened. In the USA, gun ownership has risen and murder fallen. In the UK gun ownership has fallen... And murder has fallen. Both of these are mere correlation and it is folly to infer causality to either statistic. You are far far more likely to be murdered (by gun or otherwise) in the USA. But then you are more likely to be burgled in the UK. Both of those stats may have something, or nothing to do with gun control.

              I'm all soundbitten out on this to be honest. It's a complex debate and both sides indulge it selection bias when cherry picking what statistics to use to support their argument and which statistics to ignore. And none of the statistics prove anything because they are all in complex systems where one cannot isolate one thing. Perhaps had it not been for the 97 handgun ban, murder would have plummeted in 2008 and the ban stopped that happening. Perhaps it would have risen and the ban stopped THAT from happening. Perhaps the hoods just traded guns for knives and it made no difference. But to infer that "bans don't work" from an isolated shooting is just a massive oversimplification.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

                Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                That's certainly true.

                You're entitled to your view of course, but I tend to think the whole issue is rather more complex than "bans don't work" or indeed "bans DO work". One can't really compare countries because you are never comparing like with like and one never knows what would have happened. In the USA, gun ownership has risen and murder fallen. In the UK gun ownership has fallen... And murder has fallen. Both of these are mere correlation and it is folly to infer causality to either statistic. You are far far more likely to be murdered (by gun or otherwise) in the USA. But then you are more likely to be burgled in the UK. Both of those stats may have something, or nothing to do with gun control.
                I've seen semi-auto and even full-auto handguns built from the ground up, including ammo inside maximum security prisons, in the US! So, the idea that the criminal will be affected by a ban is ludicrous!

                But, of course, the law abiding? They will disarm tomorrow if it means they won't be bothered by the police. Problem with that is the civilians kill three to five times as many crooks as the cops.

                Statistically, the cops are safer with the citizens armed and they know it!

                Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                I'm all soundbitten out on this to be honest. It's a complex debate and both sides indulge it selection bias when cherry picking what statistics to use to support their argument and which statistics to ignore. And none of the statistics prove anything because they are all in complex systems where one cannot isolate one thing. Perhaps had it not been for the 97 handgun ban, murder would have plummeted in 2008 and the ban stopped that happening. Perhaps it would have risen and the ban stopped THAT from happening. Perhaps the hoods just traded guns for knives and it made no difference. But to infer that "bans don't work" from an isolated shooting is just a massive oversimplification.
                Cherry picking? On both sides?

                Let me just say that no greater fraud in statistical studies has ever been done, on any subject, than the garbage that has been put out in the name of issue advocacy for gun-control.

                Let me also say that if the public has no means to defend itself, the criminals will pick them clean.

                With that example in their heads, children will grow up learning that it is supposed to be that way.

                Eventually, the police themselves will become corrupted and start to participate, for a little extra whatever.
                JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
                JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

                  Originally posted by dan View Post
                  I've seen semi-auto and even full-auto handguns built from the ground up, including ammo inside maximum security prisons, in the US! So, the idea that the criminal will be affected by a ban is ludicrous!

                  But, of course, the law abiding? They will disarm tomorrow if it means they won't be bothered by the police. Problem with that is the civilians kill three to five times as many crooks as the cops.

                  Statistically, the cops are safer with the citizens armed and they know it!



                  Cherry picking? On both sides?

                  Let me just say that no greater fraud in statistical studies has ever been done, on any subject, than the garbage that has been put out in the name of issue advocacy for gun-control.

                  Let me also say that if the public has no means to defend itself, the criminals will pick them clean.

                  With that example in their heads, children will grow up learning that it is supposed to be that way.

                  Eventually, the police themselves will become corrupted and start to participate, for a little extra whatever.
                  Yep, cherry picking on both sides. I'm sure you've observed it. Or has your view rendered you unobservant to the misrepresentations of pro gun apologists?

                  And I beg to differ that no greater fraud in statistical studies has been put out than in gun control. If you knew how badly science got mangled in medical research... There is a lot more money in medicine than in gun control! And politics surely has the greatest preponderance of book cookers of all!

                  Everyone does it. You quoted from a pro gun book, which you've obviously read. How many pro gun control books have you read?

                  I've seen semi-auto and even full-auto handguns built from the ground up, including ammo inside maximum security prisons, in the US! So, the idea that the criminal will be affected by a ban is ludicrous
                  No, the idea that the ban will stop any criminals getting guns is ludicrous. The idea that criminals will be AFFECTED by a ban is just common sense. Unless they are ALL mcgyver's. How many people have been killed by home made firearms in the UK? Approximately none I suspect. A ban means that one means, legitimate purchase, of acquiring a handgun is unavailable. That is clearly an affect, whether it will stop a determined killer from killing (it clearly won't) is a different thing.

                  Even if you believe the ban works FOR criminals, it's still AFFECTING them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

                    Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                    Yep, cherry picking on both sides. I'm sure you've observed it. Or has your view rendered you unobservant to the misrepresentations of pro gun apologists?
                    Misrepresentations that have been accepted by the NRA or other pro-gun organizations? Never heard of one. Show me please!

                    Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                    And I beg to differ that no greater fraud in statistical studies has been put out than in gun control. If you knew how badly science got mangled in medical research... There is a lot more money in medicine than in gun control! And politics surely has the greatest preponderance of book cookers of all!
                    How coincidental, the majority of fraud in this vein has been perpetrated by the medical community.

                    Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                    Everyone does it. You quoted from a pro gun book, which you've obviously read. How many pro gun control books have you read?
                    Quite a few.

                    Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                    No, the idea that the ban will stop any criminals getting guns is ludicrous. The idea that criminals will be AFFECTED by a ban is just common sense. Unless they are ALL mcgyver's. How many people have been killed by home made firearms in the UK? Approximately none I suspect. A ban means that one means, legitimate purchase, of acquiring a handgun is unavailable. That is clearly an affect, whether it will stop a determined killer from killing (it clearly won't) is a different thing.

                    Even if you believe the ban works FOR criminals, it's still AFFECTING them.
                    I see your point, "you can have your gun on Thursday, but not Monday".
                    JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
                    JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

                      Misrepresentations that have been accepted by the NRA or other pro-gun organizations? Never heard of one. Show me please!
                      Well there have been plenty from folk on this forum, I have no idea whether the NRA accept them or not!


                      How coincidental, the majority of fraud in this vein has been perpetrated by the medical community.
                      You missed my point I was SAYING that the medical community ARE a potential candidate for people who cheat with stats worse than the gun control lobby. Possibly not as much as the paramedical community, but still lots!


                      Quite a few.
                      I'm impressed! Which ones?

                      I see your point, "you can have your gun on Thursday, but not Monday"
                      No, you can BUY your gun on thursday, but not on monday. C'mon, you're not saying that a gun ban won't affect criminals. You spent half the threads talking about how a gun ban would BENEFIT criminals (which is an effect). I can only imagine that you are deliberately misunderstanding me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

                        Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                        Well there have been plenty from folk on this forum, I have no idea whether the NRA accept them or not!
                        Well, don't be shy, name some!

                        Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                        You missed my point I was SAYING that the medical community ARE a potential candidate for people who cheat with stats worse than the gun control lobby. Possibly not as much as the paramedical community, but still lots!
                        I don't think I missed your point. I think it's significant that the medical community is willing to lie on such a grand scale that it takes in the gun control issue as well.

                        Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                        I'm impressed! Which ones?
                        Why does it matter? There are NO anti-gun books that are worthy of anyone's time, that I've found, and I've read a couple of those too!

                        Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                        No, you can BUY your gun on thursday, but not on monday. C'mon, you're not saying that a gun ban won't affect criminals. You spent half the threads talking about how a gun ban would BENEFIT criminals (which is an effect). I can only imagine that you are deliberately misunderstanding me.
                        Perhaps I should have said no ban prevents criminals from obtaining anything they want. Modern handguns, and grenades, showing up on the streets of Manchester after a 20 year old ban, although, I must admit, the politicians around America will acknowledge that no ban would stop the violence, right before they try to impose one.
                        JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
                        JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

                          Perhaps I should have said no ban prevents criminals from obtaining anything they want. Modern handguns, and grenades, showing up on the streets of Manchester after a 20 year old ban, although, I must admit, the politicians around America will acknowledge that no ban would stop the violence, right before they try to impose one.Reply***Reply With Quote****
                          There you go!

                          Well, don't be shy, name some!
                          Really? It will only cause a row.

                          Ok, there was a survey funded by the Conservative party just before an election (they were in opposition) which showed the UK to have a massive violent crime rate, many times that of America. It's been dragged out several times in support of the view that the lack of guns correlates to more violence. However the survey does not compare like with like as the FBI figures only counted certain crimes, rape, murder etc. The UK figures counted any crime against persons, including affray. So the comparison is misleading. That survey has been referenced in books with the air of absolute fact.

                          Do you know the one I mean?

                          Why does it matter? There are NO anti-gun books that are worthy of anyone's time, that I've found, and I've read a couple of those too!
                          Just curious. If you took the time and trouble to read sources from both sides of the debate, it lends considerable weight to your argument, I'd just like to know which books you'd taken the time to read!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: TSA officer killed at LAX airport in shootout.

                            Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                            Really? It will only cause a row.

                            Ok, there was a survey funded by the Conservative party just before an election (they were in opposition) which showed the UK to have a massive violent crime rate, many times that of America. It's been dragged out several times in support of the view that the lack of guns correlates to more violence. However the survey does not compare like with like as the FBI figures only counted certain crimes, rape, murder etc. The UK figures counted any crime against persons, including affray. So the comparison is misleading. That survey has been referenced in books with the air of absolute fact.

                            Do you know the one I mean?
                            No. A survey financed by a British Conservative group? Don't think I've ever come across one. What was the date and name of the survey?

                            Originally posted by A Seeker View Post
                            Just curious. If you took the time and trouble to read sources from both sides of the debate, it lends considerable weight to your argument, I'd just like to know which books you'd taken the time to read!
                            The trouble with the anti side books is it's almost all fiction, that goes for the surveys, as well.
                            JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
                            JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

                            Comment

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