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  • Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/elizabeth-warren-to-propose-new-wealth-tax-economic-advisor.html

    Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., has proposed a “wealth tax” on some of the richest Americans.
    The new tax from Warren, who recently announced her bid to challenge President Donald Trump in 2020, would only apply to Americans with more than $50 million in assets.



    Her Twitter announcement on Thursday came hours after an economist who advises her told CNBC he believed the proposal would soon be made official.

    Elizabeth Warren
    @ewarren

    · 21h



    The rich & powerful run Washington. Here’s one benefit they wrote for themselves: After making a killing from the economy they’ve rigged, they don't pay taxes on that accumulated wealth. It’s a system that’s rigged for the top if I ever saw one.



    Elizabeth Warren
    @ewarren



    We need structural change. That’s why I’m proposing something brand new – an annual tax on the wealth of the richest Americans. I’m calling it the “Ultra-Millionaire Tax" & it applies to that tippy top 0.1% – those with a net worth of over $50M.


    6,726

    4:12 PM - Jan 24, 2019
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    The Washington Post first reported the development.


    “We helped her with the numbers,” economist Emmanuel Saez told CNBC. He said his understanding was that the Warren team had already spoken with the Post at the time he told them the details of the report.The wealth tax is projected to apply to less than 0.1 percent of U.S. households, and would raise $2.75 trillion over 10 years, Saez said.


    Warren’s idea comes alongside other Democratic lawmakers’ plans to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans to pay for ambitious policy goals, such as a “green new deal” that aims to reduce economic inequality and combat the causes of climate change.

    The development has not gone unnoticed by affluent investors and executives, many of whom are meeting this week at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.
    “By the time we get to the presidential election, this is going to gain more momentum,” Scott Minerd, global chief investment officer of $265 billion Guggenheim Partners, told CNBC earlier this week.

    He was referring specifically to freshman Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s proposal for a 70 percent marginal rate on income above $10 million.
    While Ocasio-Cortez’s plan is a tax on income, Warren’s proposal would tax wealth. In America, wealth inequality is greater than income inequality.
    While the 1 percent of Americans with the highest incomes receive about 20 percent of the total income in the United States, the top 1 percent of wealth holders collectively own more than 40 percent of the nation’s total wealth, according to a report published Wednesday by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy arguing for a wealth tax.

    The Post reported that Warren has been advised by Saez and Gabriel Zucman, left-leaning economists affiliated with the University of California, Berkeley, on a deal that would levy a 2 percent wealth tax on Americans with $50 million-plus in assets. For Americans with assets above $1 billion, that tax rate would increase to 3 percent.
    The newspaper, citing a person familiar with the plan, reported that Warren’s plan would try to counter tax evasion by boosting funding for the IRS, and by levying a one-time tax penalty on people with more than $50 million who try to renounce their U.S. citizenship. It would also require that a certain number of people who pay the wealth tax be subject to annual audits, the Post reported.

    Tax-the-rich policies are not a new phenomenon among political candidates. In fact, Trump himself floated a similar measure in 1999 as he explored a presidential bid as a prospective Reform Party nominee.

    Trump’s proposal was to impose a one-time 14.25 percent tax on individuals and trusts worth more than $10 million, according to reports at the time.
    On Tuesday, Saez and Zucman published an article in The New York Times defending Ocasio-Cortez’s proposal.


    “An extreme concentration of wealth means an extreme concentration of economic and political power. Although many policies can help address it, progressive income taxation is the fairest and most potent of them all,” they wrote.

    When Warren announced her exploratory committee for a 2020 presidential bid, she pledged to pursue policies promoting economic fairness.


    “Our government is supposed to work for all of us,” Warren said in an announcement video. “But instead, it has become a tool for the wealthy and well-connected.”
    Those on the left and right have raised objections to the idea of a wealth tax on legal grounds. Article I of the U.S. Constitution says that no direct tax can be levied unless in proportion to the “Census or Enumeration.” The 16th Amendment expanded Congress’ power to collect taxes on “incomes, from whatever source derived” without regard to the census.

    In 2014, Thomas Piketty, one of the most prominent economists in the world and a proponent of a wealth tax, said of the idea: “I realize that this is unconstitutional, but constitutions have been changed throughout history. That shouldn’t be the end of the discussion.”

    Piketty is the author of “Capital in the Twenty-First Century.”

    But in an article for the Indiana Law Journal last year, Dawn Johnsen and Walter Dellinger, two prominent legal scholars, argued against the idea that a wealth tax is unconstitutional.

    “We believe this conventional wisdom is wrong and its casual repetition has been harmful,” the two wrote.


    “Devising a progressive tax system that effectively taxes the wealthy is notoriously difficult, but whether a wealth tax is part of that system should depend upon the policy choices of democratically elected representatives, not faulty constitutional understandings.”



    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  • #2
    Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

    AOC is having an impact on the Democrats for sure. They keep using this word "fair".

    19789999.jpg

    One day, I wish someone would explain to me how it is fair for almost 50% of this country to pay no income taxes while the top 20% pays over 87% of income taxes.

    Also, if this "wealth tax" goes through, what will happen to our corporations? And before someone tells me "it won't impact corporations", let me remind you that the wealthy will then incorporate and put all of their private wealth into the company and just rent it back to themselves.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

      Off the bat, some issues:

      1)These "wealth taxes" never generate the expected revenue, because people transfer it or hide it or just flee the country. That's what's happening in France right now, and their overall income tax revenue has declined as a result as well.


      2)That much wealth feeling the country lowers the GDP, because the wealth and job producers also leave.


      3)Taxing resources that were already taxed may not be constitutional.

      "2" is probably the critical point. It's not businesses or factories that create wealth. It's the people running them that do. It's a socialist fallacy that redistributing wealth doesn't shrink it at the same time.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

        Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
        AOC is having an impact on the Democrats for sure. They keep using this word "fair".
        Envy and greed disguised as "fairness".

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

          Originally posted by Fenris View Post
          Off the bat, some issues:

          1)These "wealth taxes" never generate the expected revenue, because people transfer it or hide it or just flee the country. That's what's happening in France right now, and their overall income tax revenue has declined as a result as well.


          2)That much wealth feeling the country lowers the GDP, because the wealth and job producers also leave.


          3)Taxing resources that were already taxed may not be constitutional.

          "2" is probably the critical point. It's not businesses or factories that create wealth. It's the people running them that do. It's a socialist fallacy that redistributing wealth doesn't shrink it at the same time.
          Point 2 should be "fleeing". I don't know why post editing is broken, but there we are.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

            Originally posted by Fenris View Post
            Off the bat, some issues:

            1)These "wealth taxes" never generate the expected revenue, because people transfer it or hide it or just flee the country. That's what's happening in France right now, and their overall income tax revenue has declined as a result as well.


            2)That much wealth feeling the country lowers the GDP, because the wealth and job producers also leave.


            3)Taxing resources that were already taxed may not be constitutional.

            "2" is probably the critical point. It's not businesses or factories that create wealth. It's the people running them that do. It's a socialist fallacy that redistributing wealth doesn't shrink it at the same time.
            I use to think that the average citizen had a basic understanding of economics. Right now, I am not so sure of that any more for past generations or this one. But what I am sure about is that the concept of fairness has absolutely changed.

            Your points are dead on. They know it too. That's why the article talks about penalizing those that will move their citizenship. And there is some talk about it not being constitutional. Some argue the entire progressive tax system is not constitutional but they can at least make a show of it by making sure that everyone is taxed the same (as the constitution requires) on the first $x you make, the next $x+y you make and so on. Hard for me to imagine how a "wealth" tax that is applied only to one portion of the country will pass constitutional muster.
            Matt 9:13
            13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
            NASU

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

              Of course now the rest of the 2020 herd will follow her to the left, suggesting ever larger grabs of wealth in the name of "fairness" but actually just shilling for votes. Will some Democrat be the grownup in the room and tell them that these plans don't work and are counterproductive to the overall economy?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

                Originally posted by Fenris View Post
                Point 2 should be "fleeing". I don't know why post editing is broken, but there we are.
                I didn't even notice the spelling error. I read it exactly as "fleeing". There was a time when the democrats actually cared about investment and business and jobs. Wonder if they'll come back to talking about jobs again at some point.
                Matt 9:13
                13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                NASU

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

                  okay, i'm interested, I actually don't know much about economics or taxes, What are the best and most well evidenced arguments in your opinion?
                  "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

                    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                    I use to think that the average citizen had a basic understanding of economics. Right now, I am not so sure of that any more for past generations or this one.
                    The kids definitely don't. I guess they think their parents amassed wealth by magic. Or inherited it.

                    I'm reminded of an old movie line (I can't remember the film) where a self made millionaire is spending some time with people who inherited their wealth. A woman sniffs at him, "We don't talk about money here," to which he replies "I do. I appreciate it, because I know what it takes out of a man to earn it." Or as my wife says, "Being a business owner means you get to choose which 80 hours a week to work." People have money because they worked hard for it, and it is rightfully theirs.

                    Of course now the rest of the 2020 herd will follow her to the left, suggesting ever larger grabs of wealth in the name of "fairness" but actually just shilling for votes. Will some Democrat be the grownup in the room and tell them that these plans don't work and are counterproductive to the overall economy?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

                      Originally posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
                      okay, i'm interested, I actually don't know much about economics or taxes, What are the best and most well evidenced arguments in your opinion?
                      Wealth tax is forcing 12,000 millionaires PER YEAR out of France, says Prime Minister as he lowers tariffs for the better off

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

                        Is this a what not to do type of situation, i'm looking more for what should we do and why. not that i wont read what you posted, and i appreciate it.
                        "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

                          Originally posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
                          Is this a what not to do type of situation, i'm looking more for what should we do and why.
                          The whole discussion is about what we shouldn't do: beat the wealthy over the head with Senator Warren's tax idea.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

                            Originally posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
                            i'm looking more for what should we do and why.
                            This is your new game, I see. Looking for the "ideal conservative world". Guess what, I don't know exactly what it looks like. All I know is that it has less government and less spending and more personal freedom. Unlike socialists, I don't have a copy of Das Kapital to consult.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Elizabeth Warren calling for a wealth tax

                              Originally posted by Fenris View Post
                              The whole discussion is about what we shouldn't do: beat the wealthy over the head with Senator Warren's tax idea.
                              Well yeah, I get that, do not do what warren is suggesting..that much is clear but from my perspective what not to do doesn't really tell you what to do when the landscape of things you could do is so broad. Then there is the issue of supporting what should be done with evidence and historical/,mathematical models...at least that is the sort of thing i'd find convincing. I guess i'm just looking for solutions as opposed to critiques. I don't expect you to sit here and explain macroeconomics to me, but you know like what theories/models do you ascribe to. What are some good authors...that kind of stuff.
                              "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."

                              Comment

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