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  • Where are we now?

    In another installment of my "where are we now" threads (part 2 for those that haven't read my other thread). I have a question for those that hold the viewpoint that we are currently in the seals/trumpets/bowls.

    Where are we at, in your opinion and biblical reference, now in this process?

    I've been reading through the bible and have seen something that catches my attention to this viewpoint and would like to compare your scriptures/opinions with what I've just read.

  • #2
    I believe we are in seal 5.

    I don't believe the trumpets or vials have begun yet.

    I believe the seals, trumpets, and vials all end together....(although they aren't a strick 1-1-1, 2-2-2, 3-3-3 unfolding)...and that ending is the Glorious Return of Jesus Christ....His Revelation; for which the book is named and focused on.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
      I believe we are in seal 5.

      I don't believe the trumpets or vials have begun yet.

      I believe the seals, trumpets, and vials all end together....(although they aren't a strick 1-1-1, 2-2-2, 3-3-3 unfolding)...and that ending is the Glorious Return of Jesus Christ....His Revelation; for which the book is named and focused on.
      What about Revelation 8:1-2?

      1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.

      How does that fit in with your opinion?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mfowler12 View Post
        What about Revelation 8:1-2?

        1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.

        How does that fit in with your opinion?
        The 7th seal shows everthing is over. Christ's coming was described in the prior Seal 6.

        Verse 8:2 starts another vision, with different details and different events that weren't described within the seals.

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        • #5
          I personally don't believe that we have started the tribulation yet. I feel there is still some more items that need to fall in place before it starts, OR for us to know that we are in the era. The thing that I keep thinking is that it all will happen very quickly. You have to remember that it will only last 7 years. The time of peace, when I believe the things such as the one currency, one govt, and the anti-christ will come together will happen in a span of about 3 1/2 years. That is a lot of stuff to happen in a relatively short amount of time.

          I am thinking that when we are in the end times it will be pretty clear as these events will happen and it will be very obvious. I also believe that things are definitely falling into place for all of these to happen. There are implants being used that could easily be "the mark" (similar to putting the gps(?) in dogs). The economy is shot not only in the US but all over the world that I believe that will open the door for a single currency, which is already in place but not widely used (the Euro). Then after that I see a one gov't, which I believe can happen after everyone is hurting bad enough, happening not too far after the one currency.

          The bible talks about all the "big boys" in the East but doesn't mention the US it seems. I have always wandered how the US, as big as we are, could be missed... well, with our economy, it is very obvious and apparent that we are extremely vulnerable and it is not looking good at all. We are down and I believe that everyone else is probably going to start kicking us as soon as they feel safe.

          My thoughts, just thought I would throw them in there... interested to hear why everyone believes we are already in the end times and what they have to back it up.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
            I believe we are in seal 5.

            I don't believe the trumpets or vials have begun yet.

            I believe the seals, trumpets, and vials all end together....(although they aren't a strick 1-1-1, 2-2-2, 3-3-3 unfolding)...and that ending is the Glorious Return of Jesus Christ....His Revelation; for which the book is named and focused on.
            Amen David, though Im inclined to think we are at seal 4 with seal 5 just round the corner.

            Originally posted by mfowler12 View Post
            What about Revelation 8:1-2?

            1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.

            How does that fit in with your opinion?
            The 7th seal IS the trumpets. The half-hour silence is the angels gob-smacked shock as they just saw the stars falling and are anticipating whats coming next.
            Last edited by Cyberseeker; Dec 18th 2008, 09:38 PM. Reason: punctuation
            "Your name and renown
            is the desire of our hearts."
            (Isaiah 26:8)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by deepgreenlawn View Post
              I personally don't believe that we have started the tribulation yet. I feel there is still some more items that need to fall in place before it starts, OR for us to know that we are in the era. The thing that I keep thinking is that it all will happen very quickly. You have to remember that it will only last 7 years.
              Nothing in the New Testament mentions a 7 year time-period for anything.
              Nothing in the New Testamentt mentions a tribulation-period with a set range or duration.

              I believe that the verse in Daniel 9:27 that some interpret to mean a final 7-year period, is better understood in the context of where it is given; in the 490 years between the return from Babylonian Exile and the Death of Jesus Christ to initiate the Covenant with the many to take away sin, and to end the abominable sacrifice and offering system from the OT, but offering His own body.



              Originally posted by deepgreenlawn View Post
              The bible talks about all the "big boys" in the East but doesn't mention the US it seems.
              When the Bible was written, the US didnt' exist, it was a land of unknown indians hunting and gathering for food; that the Eur-Asians and Africans knew nothing about. Not surprising they weren't written about.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mfowler12 View Post
                What about Revelation 8:1-2?

                1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour..

                How does that fit in with your opinion?
                Well, obviously its proof there are no women in heaven.

                OK, so it wasn't that funny.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
                  Nothing in the New Testament mentions a 7 year time-period for anything.
                  Nothing in the New Testamentt mentions a tribulation-period with a set range or duration.

                  I believe that the verse in Daniel 9:27 that some interpret to mean a final 7-year period, is better understood in the context of where it is given; in the 490 years between the return from Babylonian Exile and the Death of Jesus Christ to initiate the Covenant with the many to take away sin, and to end the abominable sacrifice and offering system from the OT, but offering His own body.





                  When the Bible was written, the US didnt' exist, it was a land of unknown indians hunting and gathering for food; that the Eur-Asians and Africans knew nothing about. Not surprising they weren't written about.

                  I disagree with the first part. Christ certainly wasn't an "abomination of desolation".

                  The second part I will say that if the United States was an integral part of the scriptures of Revelation, it would be included, regardless if it existed then or not. Seeing as how close we are to the final prophecies of the OT and the NT with Jesus' near return, and how powerful the United States has been for the past couple of centuries, I find it odd that it is not included. That tells me that either a) the United States will not play an important part in the final battles with Israel and last years before Christ's return, or b) America simply won't exist.

                  With the way things are going now, with us pressuring Israel to split Jerusalem in two, and how "involved" we are with the world's economics and crises, I think choice b is the more plausible option. Strap on your helmets, lads!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Faithful 1 View Post
                    Well, obviously its proof there are no women in heaven.

                    OK, so it wasn't that funny.

                    I chuckled.

                    Women are great gifts from God though.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
                      .

                      I believe that the verse in Daniel 9:27 that some interpret to mean a final 7-year period, is better understood in the context of where it is given; in the 490 years between the return from Babylonian Exile and the Death of Jesus Christ to initiate the Covenant with the many to take away sin, and to end the abominable sacrifice and offering system from the OT, but offering His own body.

                      Really? You actually believe that the OT sacrifice was the Abomination that makes desolate? That is quite impossible...
                      If so why did Jesus refer to the abomination when explaining the events just before his 2nd return (in Mathew 24:15-25) ??
                      Please read again these words of Jesus Himself:

                      "WHEN ye shall therefore see the abomination of desloation (spoken of by Daniel the prophet) .....then let them in Judea flee...etc....
                      ...for THEN shall be such GREAT TRIBULATION such as was not since the beginning of the world, no, nor shall EVER be...and except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved..."

                      Has that happened on planet earth yet?
                      Obviously NOT .

                      AND then Jesus says... the following (vs. 29) "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days.....there shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven....and they shall see Son of Man coming in the Clouds of heaven ...(IOW, Christ's Glorious 2nd return).

                      Has that happened yet?
                      Obviously NOT.

                      Therefore the abomination of desolation has NOT occurred yet.

                      Jesus himself linked the Abomination of Desolation to both the beginning of the Great Trib. and to His IMMEDIATE return AFTER it occurred.

                      Faithful 1

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Faithful 1 View Post
                        Really? You actually believe that the OT sacrifice was the Abomination that makes desolate? That is quite impossible...
                        If so why did Jesus refer to the abomination when explaining the events just before his 2nd return (in Mathew 24:15-25) ??
                        Please read again these words of Jesus Himself:

                        "WHEN ye shall therefore see the abomination of desloation (spoken of by Daniel the prophet) .....then let them in Judea flee...etc....
                        ...for THEN shall be such GREAT TRIBULATION such as was not since the beginning of the world, no, nor shall EVER be...and except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved..."

                        Has that happened on planet earth yet?
                        Obviously NOT .

                        AND then Jesus says... the following (vs. 29) "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days.....there shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven....and they shall see Son of Man coming in the Clouds of heaven ...(IOW, Christ's Glorious 2nd return).

                        Has that happened yet?
                        Obviously NOT.

                        Therefore the abomination of desolation has NOT occurred yet.

                        Jesus himself linked the Abomination of Desolation to both the beginning of the Great Trib. and to His IMMEDIATE return AFTER it occurred.

                        Faithful 1

                        luke 21 tells the same story, but a little different.

                        What do you think is the reason for the arbitrary 2000 years between the 69th week and the 70 th week??


                        bennie

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bennie View Post
                          luke 21 tells the same story, but a little different.

                          What do you think is the reason for the arbitrary 2000 years between the 69th week and the 70 th week??


                          bennie
                          " The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, AS SOME MEN COUNT SLACKNESS, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing for any to perish , but that all should come to repentance" 2 Pet.3:9

                          Good question....I don't have all the answers.
                          However, our ignorance of His complete reasoning for delay doesn't mean it is arbitrary.

                          It may be he is not entirely ready to destroy the earth yet or possible the 'cup of iniquity' has not yet been made full.

                          Faithful 1

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JesusMySavior View Post

                            Women are great gifts from God though.
                            Thnx; I agree; apparently i 'ran over' your post to David Taylor...but I think we both had the same idea about it.

                            p.s. That's a mean looking avatar - Luke Skywalker Cat.

                            F-1

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Faithful 1 View Post
                              " The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, AS SOME MEN COUNT SLACKNESS, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing for any to perish , but that all should come to repentance" 2 Pet.3:9

                              Good question.
                              However, our ignorance of His complete reasoning for delay doesn't mean it is arbitrary.

                              Faithful 1

                              how do a person end time then. time is a continium. it never stops.
                              when monday ends at 12:00pm , theusday starts. it is not possible to stop it. does that make sence.
                              God told them " 70 weeks are decreed..."
                              Parapharsing here. God said " Listen, o Israel. You have 70 weeks, 490 years, to stop your nonsence. I will send My Holy Son. He will live among you. Accept Him. He IS the ultimate sacrifice."


                              bennie

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