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  • possumliving
    replied
    Originally posted by mfowler12 View Post
    I don't think it does. My original post was about how the Lord told Abraham that a four generation was 400 years puzzles me why people think a generation is 40, 70, 100, or even 120 as QD states.

    However, Jesus said that "this generation will not pass away" so there must be some importance to that. Do I think we are the generation or do I think the "baby boomers" are the generation, I don't know. I see it as a length of time, since generation in Genesis was a time period and I also see it as a collection of people that is alive when something happens.
    Considering that the people in the last days are supposed to be more wicked and sin is to abound think about this...

    Prov 10:27 The reverent {and} worshipful fear of the Lord prolongs one's days, but the years of the wicked shall be made short.

    So the lives of people are shorter in our day and time because of the wickedness of the people.

    Steph

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  • possumliving
    replied
    Originally posted by mfowler12 View Post
    Ah, yes! Somebody who has provided the greek definitions, thank you. That sheds light on BroRog's posts.

    Which one was used when Jesus was talking about the end of the age?
    This one:

    #1074 genea- from (a presumed derivitive of) #1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or persons):--age, generation, nation, time.

    Steph

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  • David2
    replied
    Let me rephrase:
    1. The prediction in Matt. 24:32-35 includes the ingathering of the elect (Matt. 24:31), the coming of the Son of man from heaven (Matt. 24:30).

    2. The main topic of Matt. 24:32-35 was to say that all these tings would happen soon. ("you know that summer is near" - v. 32; "near, at the very doors" - v. 33).

    3. Whatever our interpretation of 24:34, it has to be an explanation or emphases on the nearness of the return of Christ.

    4. To say that the generation is the nation of Israel or all of as that are even living today says nothing about the nearness of the coming and is not the meaning of the generation. It can also not be a period of time at the end of the days.

    5. The only logical meaning of "generation" was referring to the people then living and listening to Him. Thus, the Lord said that His return and the coming of the kingdom would have been soon, in the time that most of them were still living.

    6. The statement in verse 34 in the Greek is clearly a conditional statement ("an" with the optative), meaning that Christ would have come within their lifetime if the condition had been met. We find the condition in many parts of the gospel and again repeated in Acts, 3:19-25.


    7. This is not a strange statement at all. In fact, right through the OT the coming of the kingdom was linked to the first and only coming of the King. The OT did not differentiate between the first and the second coming. By the time of Matt. 24, the King came and on the grounds of prophecy they expected the kingdom immediately. Now Christ said: "Fine, this could very well be the case, but then Israel had to repent first, which they didn't do (Acts. 3:19-25).
    Last edited by David2; Jan 24th 2009, 06:18 AM.

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  • mfowler12
    replied
    Originally posted by possumliving View Post
    Except for just a few verses the word generation in the Greek is defined:

    #1074 genea- from (a presumed derivitive of) #1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or persons):--age, generation, nation, time.

    Which is a whole lot different when Jesus called them a generation of vipers. There it is #1081 gennema from #1080; offspring; by analogy produce (literally or figuratively): -- fruit, generation.

    Steph
    Ah, yes! Somebody who has provided the greek definitions, thank you. That sheds light on BroRog's posts.

    Which one was used when Jesus was talking about the end of the age?

    Leave a comment:


  • possumliving
    replied
    Except for just a few verses the word generation in the Greek is defined:

    #1074 genea- from (a presumed derivitive of) #1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or persons):--age, generation, nation, time.

    Which is a whole lot different when Jesus called them a generation of vipers. There it is #1081 gennema from #1080; offspring; by analogy produce (literally or figuratively): -- fruit, generation.

    Steph

    Leave a comment:


  • mfowler12
    replied
    I don't think it does. My original post was about how the Lord told Abraham that a four generation was 400 years puzzles me why people think a generation is 40, 70, 100, or even 120 as QD states.

    However, Jesus said that "this generation will not pass away" so there must be some importance to that. Do I think we are the generation or do I think the "baby boomers" are the generation, I don't know. I see it as a length of time, since generation in Genesis was a time period and I also see it as a collection of people that is alive when something happens.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroRog
    replied
    Originally posted by quiet dove View Post
    So we agree, neither one of us knows.....
    Well . . . .

    I don't blame people for anticipating the return of Jesus. But I wonder what people would do with the information if they actually knew the duration of a generation? Does Jesus tell us when the clock starts?

    Leave a comment:


  • quiet dove
    replied
    Originally posted by BroRog View Post
    That comes very close to the OP, in which the 430 years in Egypt was divided by 4. Perhaps a "generation", at that point in history, represented the average length of time a patriarch acted as the "father" of the family.

    So we agree, neither one of us knows.....

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  • BroRog
    replied
    Originally posted by quiet dove View Post
    Not to jump into the "how long is a generation" debate because I have no idea how long a generation is in terms of the life span of men. But I also am not sure that the term "generation" must in all cases be applied to the physical generation of a mans life span.

    However, in the context of physical life span and generation, would this verse give any indication? Just asking as I have no idea.

    Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

    Most of us don't make it 120 years.
    That comes very close to the OP, in which the 430 years in Egypt was divided by 4. Perhaps a "generation", at that point in history, represented the average length of time a patriarch acted as the "father" of the family.

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  • quiet dove
    replied
    Not to jump into the "how long is a generation" debate because I have no idea how long a generation is in terms of the life span of men. But I also am not sure that the term "generation" must in all cases be applied to the physical generation of a mans life span.

    However, in the context of physical life span and generation, would this verse give any indication? Just asking as I have no idea.

    Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

    Most of us don't make it 120 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Psalms Fan
    replied
    Originally posted by mfowler12 View Post
    Why did Jesus mention it?
    I didn't say that the word generation isn't scriptural. I only said that nowhere does scripture define it as a certain length of time, as if a "biblical generation" is a specific period of time...day, month, year, decade, biblical generation, century, etc.

    Yes, Jesus mentions the concept of a generation, but not in the sense of trying to say that a "generation" is a calculable and predictable length of time.

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  • mfowler12
    replied
    Originally posted by Psalms Fan View Post
    I think that the OP is fundamentally flawed. Nowhere does the Bible say that a generation lasts a certain amount of time. There is no such thing as a "biblical generation".

    My grandfather is one generation. My father is one generation later. I am the next generation. My daughter is the one after me. I have first cousins who are young enough to be my children, yet we all have the same grandparents and are the same generation.

    Basically, I think that the whole "how long is a generation" thing is a non-point, scripturally and prophetically speaking.
    Why did Jesus mention it?

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  • Psalms Fan
    replied
    I think that the OP is fundamentally flawed. Nowhere does the Bible say that a generation lasts a certain amount of time. There is no such thing as a "biblical generation".

    My grandfather is one generation. My father is one generation later. I am the next generation. My daughter is the one after me. I have first cousins who are young enough to be my children, yet we all have the same grandparents and are the same generation.

    Basically, I think that the whole "how long is a generation" thing is a non-point, scripturally and prophetically speaking.

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  • Eben
    replied
    This generation

    Hi there. Pardon me for jumping in from the side. I have been following this thread and would like to add my bit.
    If we read Daniel 9:26-27:
    Dan 9:26 And at the end of that time God's chosen leader will be killed unjustly. The city and the Temple will be destroyed by the invading army of a powerful ruler. The end will come like a flood, bringing the war and destruction which God has prepared.
    Dan 9:27 That ruler will have a firm agreement with many people for seven years, and when half this time is past, he will put an end to sacrifices and offerings. The Awful Horror will be placed on the highest point of the Temple and will remain there until the one who put it there meets the end which God has prepared for him."
    I think that most will agree that there is a two thousand year plus difference between the word ruler and the next sentence “ The end will come..” I mean Jerusalem and the temple was destroyed in about 75AD. But the ruler in verse 27 has not come forward as yet. Just read

    2Th 2:4 He will oppose every so-called god or object of worship and will put himself above them all. He will even go in and sit down in God's Temple and claim to be God.
    Or Revelation:
    Rev 13:16 The beast forced all the people, small and great, rich and poor, slave and free, to have a mark placed on their right hands or on their foreheads.
    Rev 13:17 No one could buy or sell without this mark, that is, the beast's name or the number that stands for the name.
    These things have not happened as yet.

    Also read Mat 10:23 Mat. 16: 27,28 Mat. 23:39 Mat. 24:34.
    Especially Mat. 16 27 – 28 Jesus said that some of those standing there will not die until they see His coming.
    Those standing there? Also the same as this generation. Now surely He has not come as yet, but surely those standing there have died.
    The problem disappears when we realize that if the Jews as a nation accepted Jesus at that stage that is exactly what would have happened. It would have been the end. Jesus knew what was going to happen but could not tell them, He had to give them the choice. The nation made the wrong choice and then they crucified Jesus. Peter in Acts says:

    Act 3:17 "And now, my friends, I know that what you and your leaders did to Jesus was due to your ignorance.
    Act 3:18 God announced long ago through all the prophets that his Messiah had to suffer; and he made it come true in this way.
    Act 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that he will forgive your sins. If you do,
    Act 3:20 times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and he will send Jesus, who is the Messiah he has already chosen for you.
    Act 3:21 He must remain in heaven until the time comes for all things to be made new, as God announced through his holy prophets of long ago.
    Act 3:22 For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people. You are to obey everything that he tells you to do.
    Act 3:23 Anyone who does not obey that prophet shall be separated from God's people and destroyed.'
    Act 3:24 And all the prophets who had a message, including Samuel and those who came after him, also announced what has been happening these days.
    Act 3:25 The promises of God through his prophets are for you, and you share in the covenant which God made with your ancestors. As he said to Abraham, 'Through your descendants I will bless all the people on earth.'
    Act 3:26 And so God chose his Servant and sent him to you first, to bless you by making every one of you turn away from your wicked ways."

    If they accepted Peter’s invitation then He would have come back as King. They did not and this is where the problem of “this generation” actually disappear, because when Israel rejected the Holy spirit when they stoned Stephen, God turned His back on them and they became Lo ammi which means “ not my people” That is why the prophetic clock is standing still and Daniels prophecy is not completed and there is still the last week to realize, which we know will be the seven years of tribulation. This is where the Gentiles become part of Gods plan. The period between the rejection of Israel and their acceptance again as Gods people. Read Romans 11
    Rom 11:23 And if the Jews abandon their unbelief, they will be put back in the place where they were; for God is able to do that.
    Rom 11:24 You Gentiles are like the branch of a wild olive tree that is broken off and then, contrary to nature, is joined to a cultivated olive tree. The Jews are like this cultivated tree; and it will be much easier for God to join these broken-off branches to their own tree again.
    Rom 11:25 There is a secret truth, my friends, which I want you to know, for it will keep you from thinking how wise you are. It is that the stubbornness of the people of Israel is not permanent, but will last only until the complete number of Gentiles comes to God.
    Rom 11:26 And this is how all Israel will be saved. As the scripture says, "The Savior will come from Zion and remove all wickedness from the descendants of Jacob.
    Rom 11:27 I will make this covenant with them when I take away their sins."
    Rom 11:28 Because they reject the Good News, the Jews are God's enemies for the sake of you Gentiles. But because of God's choice, they are his friends because of their ancestors.
    Rom 11:29 For God does not change his mind about whom he chooses and blesses.

    This period known as the period of grace will pass when Israel becomes Gods people again. That is why there are no Greek Jew or gentile etc. we are all one in Christ as long as we believe.
    Also read Eph.

    Eph 2:11 You Gentiles by birth---called "the uncircumcised" by the Jews, who call themselves the circumcised (which refers to what men do to their bodies)---remember what you were in the past.
    Eph 2:12 At that time you were apart from Christ. You were foreigners and did not belong to God's chosen people. You had no part in the covenants, which were based on God's promises to his people, and you lived in this world without hope and without God.
    Eph 2:13 But now, in union with Christ Jesus you, who used to be far away, have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
    We must ask the question when this ” now” in Eph 2:13 occurred . The answer can be found in Acts 13.
    Hope I did not upset anyone but this is just my opinion.
    Eben



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  • possumliving
    replied
    Originally posted by BroRog View Post
    Okay, here's my question. If Jesus actually meant, "the whole multitude of people living at the same time, in a definite, given period" will not passaway until all these things be fulfilled, Then how could anyone prove him wrong? How could anyone ever know whether the time was up? Babies are born everyday, people die everyday. What constitutes "the whole multitude"? And without a very accurate census, taken at the time of Jesus' statement, how would anyone hearing Jesus words know when THAT entire generation had passed away?

    Do you see my problem with this interpretation? If no one can know the answer, then why did Jesus say it? Did Jesus intend to communicate something meaningful and helpful by his words or no?
    I see that you are still having a problem with it...I'm not. I think this is where the second part of that verse comes in.

    Matt 24:34 Truly I tell you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at the same time, in a definite, given period) will not pass away till all these things taken together take place.

    All these things as in all of the prophesies about the end times and those things written prior to Matt 24:34 in that chapter. In other words, we (our generation) won't die out until all of those things spoken of in the end times prophecies have come to pass.

    Steph

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