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  • Discussion He who restrains (2 Thess. 2:6-8)

    6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (2 Thess. 2:6-8)

    Many theologians of eschatology say that the "restrainer" is the Holy Spirit or the Church, to be raptured out of this world before the antichrist comes to power, so that there is no interference of this evil man's plan to dictate the world. I am, through reading the Bible, a post-tribber, even though many of my favorite teachers are pre-tribbers. This scripture seems to support pre-tribulation rapture yet it is the only one that I can find that supports this view. I am not going to debate pre-trib/post-trib because you can click on any thread in ETC and hear people spat about it.

    What I am wondering is, for pre-tribbers, this scripture would make sense as the restrainer being the Church or the Holy Ghost; but I'm curious what the post-tribbers here think. Who else could restrain from keeping the man of sin?

    Obviously if it was the Holy Ghost, there would be no saints in the tribulation since He is our Comforter (John 14:16) and keeps us from sin. This also seems to contradict since it is the Holy Spirit who convicts and saves, and the Bible speaks of saints in the tribulation - but if they're all raptured out and there's no Holy Ghost, who can be saved? It must be the church if one is a pre-tribber, NOT the Holy Ghost. But if you're a post-tribber, then who is He that restrains?


    Thanks saints!

  • #2
    Interesting, I have been thinking of the same scripture the last couple of days.

    Couple thoughts;

    If the 'restrainer' were the Holy Spirit, would not the Lord have used the same name?

    If the Holy Spirit is removed, and we know there are 'saints martyred in the tribulation' how are they convinced of their sin that they may come to Christ?



    On edit: also, when in the entirety of human history would the ministry of 'The Comforter' be more needed then in the midst of the Great Tribulation?
    Last edited by Amos_with_goats; Jan 27th 2009, 07:01 PM. Reason: to add another question
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    • #3
      Ok, couple more things and I will sit down...

      Ok, one more thing and then I will shut up for a few minutes...

      Lets look at the passage in context. Here are the verses


      2 Thessalonians 2 (King James Version)

      1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
      2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
      3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
      4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
      5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
      6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
      7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
      8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
      9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
      10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
      11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
      12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
      13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
      14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


      Three things stick out to me.


      1.) Verse 3 clearly states that the Lord SHALL NOT RETURN until the son of perdition is reveled. Verse 7&8 tells us that "he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." "And then shall that Wicked be revealed..." So, if the Lord does not return until after the man of sin is reveled, then if the Holy Spirit were to be removed first then Christ would leave His Church without the Holy Spirit which He has promised not to do.


      2.) The Holy Spirit, would be a Capital 'H' in he if it referred to Him. It is clearly lower case....
      of course I know some do not hold scripture to be perfect and will argue with this.



      3.) I can not remember what #3 was, so I will just post this and move on to something else...


      * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * ** * *** * * * * ***** * * * * ** * * * * ** ** * *
      ~ * You get 10 'reps' to bless others with each day... don't log off until you have used them up......
      ....Live your life the same way.... ~ *

      Please pray for the 'Persecuted Church'.


      Bible Forums Vision: "To be a community of believers who are actively engaged in pursuing the truth of God as revealed in His Son Jesus Christ by way of studying the Scriptures diligently in order to discover this truth."


      Comment


      • #4
        Isn't it true that this "Beast" is the same one that "ascends from the bottomless pit"?

        Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is

        Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

        The bottomless pit would seem to be a prison of sort, with a locking mechanism that requires a key to open. So maybe his jailer, the "angel with the key to the bottomless pit", is the one that is restraining him now, and will be removed to allow his freedom?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JesusMySavior View Post
          6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (2 Thess. 2:6-8)

          if you're a post-tribber, then who is He that restrains?
          The Father is the one who puts into motion the end-time events.

          Acts 17:26 "And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed"

          When His restrain of Satan stops, then Satan will be released from his bindings that currently prevent him from stopping the Gentiles from believing (like he did nearly 100% during O.T. times). This will be Satan's little season prior to the Lord's glorious Return from Heaven.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Amos_with_goats View Post

            2.) The Holy Spirit, would be a Capital 'H' in he if it referred to Him. It is clearly lower case....
            of course I know some do not hold scripture to be perfect and will argue with this.
            Depends on which translation, mine has a capital "H". NKJV. And the KJV does not have a lot of references to the Spirit, or he as in Christ or God capitalized, I dont think anyway.


            sigpic

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            • #7
              The restrainer of v.6 is neuter in gender, and is restraining the revealing of Jesus (1:7; 2:1-3a), not the Antichrist - this first reference to the restrainer speaks of things, not people, being what he just spoke of: 1) the falling away must happen first, 2) then the lawless one will be revealed. These two things must happen before the revealing of Jesus.

              The restrainer of v.7 is masculine in gender, and judging by the "then" in v.8 (which speaks of the lawless one being revealed), the restrainer here must then be speaking of the falling away.

              So yes, the church is the restrainer, however, it is not the church flying away, but falling away.

              - Astro
              analyze. synthesize. repeat.

              *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

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              • #8
                The church can not restrain on its own. It is only by the power of God and His abiblity that the church can do anything. The church does not have to leave the earth for Holy Spirit to stop functioning as a restrainer of the anti-Christ.

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                • #9
                  It seems that there is only One who is the 'restrainer'...


                  Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


                  Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

                  God bless in Christ,
                  pinky

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Amos_with_goats View Post


                    2.) The Holy Spirit, would be a Capital 'H' in he if it referred to Him. It is clearly lower case....
                    of course I know some do not hold scripture to be perfect and will argue with this.



                    Capital "H" and lower case is something that translators did and not necessarily what was originally inspired by God.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JesusMySavior View Post
                      Obviously if it was the Holy Ghost, there would be no saints in the tribulation since He is our Comforter (John 14:16) and keeps us from sin. This also seems to contradict since it is the Holy Spirit who convicts and saves, and the Bible speaks of saints in the tribulation - but if they're all raptured out and there's no Holy Ghost, who can be saved? It must be the church if one is a pre-tribber, NOT the Holy Ghost. But if you're a post-tribber, then who is He that restrains?


                      Thanks saints!
                      I am one of those who think Paul is talking about the Holy Spirit. But I don't think Paul means to say that the Holy Spirit will be taken off the earth or that the Church will be raptured. I think he simply means this. Whatever the Holy Spirit is doing to keep the man of lawlessness from coming to power, he will stop doing that. It doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit has to leave. It simply means that the Holy Spirit will not prevent the man of lawlessness from showing up anymore. I'm sure the Holy Spirit will still be around to help Christians etc.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BroRog View Post
                        I am one of those who think Paul is talking about the Holy Spirit. But I don't think Paul means to say that the Holy Spirit will be taken off the earth or that the Church will be raptured. I think he simply means this. Whatever the Holy Spirit is doing to keep the man of lawlessness from coming to power, he will stop doing that. It doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit has to leave. It simply means that the Holy Spirit will not prevent the man of lawlessness from showing up anymore. I'm sure the Holy Spirit will still be around to help Christians etc.
                        We are in agreement.

                        I will take it a step further and say that I think He stops 'restraining' the son of perdition because of the falling away from the Truth by the church.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by astrongerthanhe View Post
                          The restrainer of v.6 is neuter in gender, and is restraining the revealing of Jesus (1:7; 2:1-3a), not the Antichrist - this first reference to the restrainer speaks of things, not people, being what he just spoke of: 1) the falling away must happen first, 2) then the lawless one will be revealed. These two things must happen before the revealing of Jesus.

                          The restrainer of v.7 is masculine in gender, and judging by the "then" in v.8 (which speaks of the lawless one being revealed), the restrainer here must then be speaking of the falling away.

                          So yes, the church is the restrainer, however, it is not the church flying away, but falling away.

                          - Astro

                          This is an interesting view

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by astrongerthanhe View Post
                            The restrainer of v.6 is neuter in gender, and is restraining the revealing of Jesus (1:7; 2:1-3a), not the Antichrist - this first reference to the restrainer speaks of things, not people, being what he just spoke of: 1) the falling away must happen first, 2) then the lawless one will be revealed. These two things must happen before the revealing of Jesus.

                            The restrainer of v.7 is masculine in gender, and judging by the "then" in v.8 (which speaks of the lawless one being revealed), the restrainer here must then be speaking of the falling away.

                            So yes, the church is the restrainer, however, it is not the church flying away, but falling away.

                            - Astro
                            Yep, ditto that! Go down further in the verses and see that God judges those who did not love the truth so that they might be saved. And that judgement is a spirit of delusion.

                            2 Thess 2:11 Therefore God sends upon them a misleading influence, a working of error {and} a strong delusion to make them believe what is false,
                            2 Thess 2:12 In order that all may be judged {and} condemned who did not believe in [who refused to adhere to, trust in, and rely on] the Truth, but [instead] took pleasure in unrighteousness.

                            Since this is prior to wrath, I'd say that the judgement is part of the great falling away. And still, since it is happening already, and the antichrist hasn't been revealed, we must be pretty close.

                            Steph
                            2 Cor 4:4 For the god of this world has blinded the unbelievers' minds [that they should not discern the truth], preventing them from seeing the illuminating light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ (the Messiah), Who is the Image {and} Likeness of God. AMP

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JesusMySavior View Post
                              6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (2 Thess. 2:6-8)

                              Many theologians of eschatology say that the "restrainer" is the Holy Spirit or the Church, to be raptured out of this world before the antichrist comes to power, so that there is no interference of this evil man's plan to dictate the world. I am, through reading the Bible, a post-tribber, even though many of my favorite teachers are pre-tribbers. This scripture seems to support pre-tribulation rapture yet it is the only one that I can find that supports this view. I am not going to debate pre-trib/post-trib because you can click on any thread in ETC and hear people spat about it.

                              What I am wondering is, for pre-tribbers, this scripture would make sense as the restrainer being the Church or the Holy Ghost; but I'm curious what the post-tribbers here think. Who else could restrain from keeping the man of sin?
                              Please note that it is the "revealing" of the man of sin that is being restrained.

                              We have two confirmations in the bible that it is the church who hastens the end, by preaching the gospel. If its God's plan to hasten the end, then who do you think is slowing things down:
                              Rev 12 states that Satan is fighting to STAY in heaven, even though he knows that when he is cast to earth there will be great destruction. Why would Satan be the one to try and slow down God's plan? It is explained clearly "because he knows his time is short". Satan knows that when the church has completed its commission to preach to all nations, he will only have 3.5 years left of rule on earth. His evil is already on earth but he is delaying his full wrath because he prefers accusing the saints from heaven, than being on earth for a short period of wrath, of this Rev 12 is clear:

                              12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
                              12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
                              12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
                              12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
                              12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
                              12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
                              12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

                              Here we have a clear explanation that Satan has to be taken out of the way, he has to be overcome by the testimony of the saints and a war in heaven before he reveals his full wrath to earth.This seems to contradict the nature of Satan, that Satan would delay his full wrath, but the scripture is clear that this is what Satan is doing.

                              I believe the restrainer is Satan, who is restraining the revealing of the antichrist because he knows that when he is revealed Satan's time will be short. We the church will stop Satan from accusing us and cause Satan to be cast to earth by being faithful to spread the gospel. This will cause a war in heaven and force Satan to reveal his full wrath through the man of sin.
                              Last edited by DurbanDude; Jan 28th 2009, 06:54 AM. Reason: Edit

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