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The anti-christ can not come from America or Rome?

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  • The anti-christ can not come from America or Rome?

    I started this thread as a question since this is a question I am asking and not making a statement. Daniel 8:21 and 22 speak about Grecia and it being broken up into 4 kingdoms.

    And the rough goat [is] the king of Grecia: and the great horn that [is] between his eyes [is] the first king.

    Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
    Most commentaries I have read on this say this is talking about Alexander the great and his kingdom turning into 4 after his death. Rome is no where near where ancient Greece was. Niether is America. To me this seems to rule out the possibility that the anti-Christ could come from Rome or America.

  • #2
    Originally posted by rom826 View Post
    I started this thread as a question since this is a question I am asking and not making a statement. Daniel 8:21 and 22 speak about Grecia and it being broken up into 4 kingdoms.



    Most commentaries I have read on this say this is talking about Alexander the great and his kingdom turning into 4 after his death. Rome is no where near where ancient Greece was. Niether is America. To me this seems to rule out the possibility that the anti-Christ could come from Rome or America.
    Rome is the fourth empire of Daniel 7, the empire that conquers each of the four divisions of the Greek empire. The antichrist comes from the 4th empire, and not from the third empire, Greece.

    Daniel 8 is not an end-times chapter, but is speaking of Greece, and about Antiochus , leader of one of the 4 regions, especially most of the middle east. He desecrated the Jewish temple , and stopped Jewish sacrifices at the temple. Exactly 2300 sacrifices were stopped, they had a morning and evening sacrifice, and the sacrifices were stopped for 1150 days. Those translations that state 2300 days are incorrect. And 2300 days does not fit in with other end-time verses that refer to a 3.5 year period, being interpreted as 1260 or 1290 days (3.5 years is 1277.5 days to be precise). Antiochus was similar to the future antichrist and is often referred to as a "forerunner" or "typecast" of the antichrist.
    Last edited by DurbanDude; Jan 28th 2009, 11:56 AM. Reason: Edit

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    • #3
      The man of sin will come from Iraq.\\

      The last part of Zechariah 5 shows that Shinar would set up her palace again.
      http://prophecyinsights.com

      Comment


      • #4
        I think our focus on identifying the AC should not be on where he comes from but rather by his ACTIONS. Scripture gives a list as long as my arm concerning the things the AC will do. By his "fruits you shall know him."
        Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held it's ground.
        ********************************************
        MAY WE IN EVIL'S HOUR, TRUTH'S SWORD WITH BOLDNESS WIELD

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
          Rome is the fourth empire of Daniel 7, the empire that conquers each of the four divisions of the Greek empire. The antichrist comes from the 4th empire, and not from the third empire, Greece.

          Daniel 8 is not an end-times chapter, but is speaking of Greece, and about Antiochus , leader of one of the 4 regions, especially most of the middle east. He desecrated the Jewish temple , and stopped Jewish sacrifices at the temple. Exactly 2300 sacrifices were stopped, they had a morning and evening sacrifice, and the sacrifices were stopped for 1150 days. Those translations that state 2300 days are incorrect. And 2300 days does not fit in with other end-time verses that refer to a 3.5 year period, being interpreted as 1260 or 1290 days (3.5 years is 1277.5 days to be precise). Antiochus was similar to the future antichrist and is often referred to as a "forerunner" or "typecast" of the antichrist.
          .....DAN.8 is not an endtimes chapter...? ...HUH...? I beg to differ...V.17:"for at the time of the end shall be the vision"...V.19:"at the time appointed shall the end be"....not only have we witnessed the (1 st.part of the destruction of the ram = iraq & persia) the second part of this vision is about to be fullfilled right shortly....Well then the "HE" goat here may very well represent "END TIMES BABYLON"....comin' from which direction....? THE WEST....what say ye....SELAH
          sing it w/me...and thats my story and i'm stickin' to it....

          Comment


          • #6
            The little horn for Daniel 8 comes to Israel from the east.


            Israel...Iraq.....goes east
            -----takes the south........
            http://prophecyinsights.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by vinsight4u8 View Post
              The little horn for Daniel 8 comes to Israel from the east.


              Israel...Iraq.....goes east
              -----takes the south........
              ......HEY VIN...I've read quite a few of ur post's and u seem to have a sound understanding of bible prophecy however I'm not quite sure I follow ur directionals here as u seem to be comin' from all over the map....DAN.8:5 clearly details the "HE"goat comin' from "THE WEST".....DO u agree w/DAN.8:5's...direction...?
              sing it w/me...and thats my story and i'm stickin' to it....

              Comment


              • #8
                what it says is that he will be of the people who destroyed the temple, which was the Romans...that means he has to be of Roman descent, or at least part of the original Roman Empire. He can actually be of that descent and come from anywhere in the world. I myself am English, Irish, Scotish, etc...and I actually come from America, I was born here. That doesn't mean that I do not still have the blood of those heritages. It just means I was born in America. So it is not necessarily a Roman, per se....just someone who has Roman blood.
                Psalm 118:8 - "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hey to you!

                  8:5 I see as speaking about the ancient empire under Alexander the Great, and in v 6 he would have gone against Median and Persian kings.
                  When we get to v 8, we find out that it again begins to speak of the Greek Empire time. It lets us in on what happens after its king (for v 5) dies. We find out that four other kings come up in his empire.
                  one each in the
                  east, west, north, south
                  (the four winds of heaven)

                  The chapter then wants us to dwell on what a little horn will do.
                  v 9
                  "And out of one of them came forth a little horn..."

                  ------------
                  It doesn't tell us which one of them right out, but gives us clues to know which piece of the four winds he will come from.

                  v 9
                  "And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land."

                  Since we know where the pleasant land is - Isarel -we know that it is not to be placed in the south or the eastern area of the overall picture being set up.

                  takes
                  Israel..........

                  and the liitle horn also takes the south and the east

                  So Israel is not in the south or the east as we form a map of what is to take place.

                  Israel.....<......little horn --->--goes to his east
                  ---------------takes the south------------


                  If the little horn was in the north - then that wouldn't work -because Israel would then be to his south.
                  Israel is listed in the prophecy as the pleasant {land} and used as a reference to the direction the little horn king will attack.


                  -------------The end of Daniel 11 gives this same picture to us.

                  v 44
                  "But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him..."

                  --------------tidings out of the north trouble him-----
                  Israel.....<....little horn.....>east...<tidings trouble him
                  .............the south (Egypt) is taken.............


                  Daniel 11:3 again deals with the king of Greece and v 4 shows what happens to his empire after his death.
                  split into many pieces
                  "his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those"
                  but deal with the main four sections
                  (the four winds of heaven)
                  http://prophecyinsights.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jesuslover1968 View Post
                    what it says is that he will be of the people who destroyed the temple, which was the Romans...that means he has to be of Roman descent, or at least part of the original Roman Empire. He can actually be of that descent and come from anywhere in the world. I myself am English, Irish, Scotish, etc...and I actually come from America, I was born here. That doesn't mean that I do not still have the blood of those heritages. It just means I was born in America. So it is not necessarily a Roman, per se....just someone who has Roman blood.
                    Why do you think that the prophecy is written - as in split into two different determined times?

                    Daniel 9:27
                    ""And he....and that determined..."

                    But v 26 also spoke in that manner.

                    "...the city and the sanctuary:...end of the war desolations are determined."

                    Didn't v 26 sort of bring everything to a close?
                    a determined close

                    Then why does v 27 bring into play another section determined?

                    Also - if the desolations were -- to the end of the war for v 26, then why in v 27 do we get told....

                    "even until the consummation"

                    I ask this?
                    The consummation of what?

                    Okay, now head back and see what v 23 has as the reason that Daniel was visited by Gabriel?

                    "At the beginning of thy supplications...I am come to shew thee..."

                    So something from the starting point of this chapter has caused Daniel to supplicate to understand it - and this is why Gabriel shows up.

                    Let me know what is the reason you believe that Gabriel came to Daniel.
                    Do you agree that something bugged him as to what Jeremiah has written?

                    Daniel has been reading the words by Jeremiah - so wouldn't this whole chapter have to fit with Daniel coming to understand the Jeremiah prophecy?
                    http://prophecyinsights.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have to get going - I want to add in one more thought.

                      --------**
                      Since Daniel 8 and 11 deal with the Greek Empire area as to what area of the world the little horn will come from....

                      then what area of the world do you think Zechariah chapter 6 deals with?

                      mountains of brass

                      ----------Could this also be showing us that Greek Empire area - as to Daniel's prophecy about Greece for Daniel 2 was about an empire made of brass?


                      Then just step back a bit into Zec. 5 and what land does it refer to?

                      Shinar
                      The prophecy leaves the reader with there is a future goal of building a house (palace) in the land of Shinar.

                      Babylon - Iraq
                      http://prophecyinsights.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by vinsight4u8 View Post
                        Hey to you!

                        8:5 I see as speaking about the ancient empire under Alexander the Great, and in v 6 he would have gone against Median and Persian kings.
                        When we get to v 8, we find out that it again begins to speak of the Greek Empire time. It lets us in on what happens after its king (for v 5) dies. We find out that four other kings come up in his empire.
                        one each in the
                        east, west, north, south
                        (the four winds of heaven)

                        The chapter then wants us to dwell on what a little horn will do.
                        v 9
                        "And out of one of them came forth a little horn..."

                        ------------
                        It doesn't tell us which one of them right out, but gives us clues to know which piece of the four winds he will come from.

                        v 9
                        "And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land."

                        Since we know where the pleasant land is - Isarel -we know that it is not to be placed in the south or the eastern area of the overall picture being set up.

                        takes
                        Israel..........

                        and the liitle horn also takes the south and the east

                        So Israel is not in the south or the east as we form a map of what is to take place.

                        Israel.....<......little horn --->--goes to his east
                        ---------------takes the south------------


                        If the little horn was in the north - then that wouldn't work -because Israel would then be to his south.
                        Israel is listed in the prophecy as the pleasant {land} and used as a reference to the direction the little horn king will attack.


                        -------------The end of Daniel 11 gives this same picture to us.

                        v 44
                        "But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him..."

                        --------------tidings out of the north trouble him-----
                        Israel.....<....little horn.....>east...<tidings trouble him
                        .............the south (Egypt) is taken.............


                        Daniel 11:3 again deals with the king of Greece and v 4 shows what happens to his empire after his death.
                        split into many pieces
                        "his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those"
                        but deal with the main four sections
                        (the four winds of heaven)
                        ....Allthough I understand this eschatology perfectly...I respectfully disagree....We have yet to see the "End time" fullfillment of DAN.8:Verses 7 & 8....
                        sing it w/me...and thats my story and i'm stickin' to it....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                          Rome is the fourth empire of Daniel 7, the empire that conquers each of the four divisions of the Greek empire. The antichrist comes from the 4th empire, and not from the third empire, Greece.

                          Daniel 8 is not an end-times chapter, but is speaking of Greece, and about Antiochus , leader of one of the 4 regions, especially most of the middle east. He desecrated the Jewish temple , and stopped Jewish sacrifices at the temple. Exactly 2300 sacrifices were stopped, they had a morning and evening sacrifice, and the sacrifices were stopped for 1150 days. Those translations that state 2300 days are incorrect. And 2300 days does not fit in with other end-time verses that refer to a 3.5 year period, being interpreted as 1260 or 1290 days (3.5 years is 1277.5 days to be precise). Antiochus was similar to the future antichrist and is often referred to as a "forerunner" or "typecast" of the antichrist.
                          Just because something similar happened before Christ came with Antiochus does not mean Daniel 8 is speaking about Antiochus. Saying it is speaking of Antiochus does not fit with other scriptures concerning the Abomination of Desolation.

                          Mat 24:15
                          When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
                          Jesus spoke of the Abomination of Desolation as being future to His time on earth. Therefore Daniel 8 can not be speaking about Antiochus.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by iconoclast2012 View Post
                            ....Allthough I understand this eschatology perfectly...I respectfully disagree....We have yet to see the "End time" fullfillment of DAN.8:Verses 7 & 8....
                            So you do not believe that verse 7 & 8 are speaking about what happened with Alexander the great?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rom826 View Post
                              So you do not believe that verse 7 & 8 are speaking about what happened with Alexander the great?
                              ....Quite possibly yes...But the ultimate fullfillment soon to be revealed....selah....
                              sing it w/me...and thats my story and i'm stickin' to it....

                              Comment

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