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Where does the Rapture fit in the tribulation timeline?

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  • Where does the Rapture fit in the tribulation timeline?

    I wanted to re-read the book of Revelations and I was getting kinda condused on where the rapture should take place. It could be because the bible I'm reading is not my usual version and also I was at work so I really couldnt get into the Good Book like I wanted to. So can someone pin point where i should re-read?

    Muchas Gracias mi hermanos and hermanas en Christo.... a lil spanish kick for ya!!
    I will sing of your works & your mighty ways
    My Rock & My Salvation
    Who will hide me in the time of trouble?
    Who is like the lord, so full of gace and truth!

  • #2
    Originally posted by JesusReignsForever View Post
    I wanted to re-read the book of Revelations and I was getting kinda condused on where the rapture should take place.
    When the dead in Christ rise first..........

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
      When the dead in Christ rise first..........

      I know that... I meant where in the timeline.
      I will sing of your works & your mighty ways
      My Rock & My Salvation
      Who will hide me in the time of trouble?
      Who is like the lord, so full of gace and truth!

      Comment


      • #4
        JRF,
        I can tell you you deserve the can o worms award for that question! lol!

        There are three basic positions, pretrib, midtrib and posttrib. There are others such as pre-wrath but I wont go into that just yet.

        The majority of the non american world hold to a post trib rapture. The history of the church was post trib until the last 160 or so years. Pre trib, supposedly, was identified by a teenage Irish catholic girl who claimed to have a vision from Jesus that the church would not be here when the trib occured. Whether that is true is unknown to me- it seems highly unlikely... but I am not well versed in "stories" so I generally ignore such things. Anyway, for millenia and so forth post trib was THE position. Then pretrib came along and it has some valid points. I don't agree with them but let me hasten to say, SOME OF MY BEST FRIENDS ARE PRE TRIB AND THEY ARE INTELLIGENT SMART AND THOUGHTFUL PEOPLE.

        I was pretrib and switched about 20 years ago. I have longed to switch back to pre trib because it causes so much division in my life. But, alas, I cannot since I could not in honest faith hold to it, as I do not believe it is a legitimate interpretation of scripture. (I hasten to add many of my close friends hold the exact opposite and we choose not to be divided from each other.)

        This can be very divisive. Do not let that happen in this thread. Whatever you choose, be sincere and be meek!

        I think we will be raptured in Rev 20:5... I see no way around this verse in context with those surrounding it. (as I say, with genuine sincerity, some of my friend see no problem with that verse, but I do, so be honest with yourself, do not be swayed by friendship).

        Study Rev 20:5 and trhe surrounding verses and see if you can escape the obvious conclusion...

        All the best,

        DF
        Dragonfighter1
        Vivo est Ministro

        Comment


        • #5
          At the return of Jesus. Who, by the way, is only coming back ONCE.

          Comment


          • #6
            I can tell you you deserve the can o worms award for that question! lol!
            Oh yipeeee!! I love to go fishing a nice can of worms would be great.. but Im not putting the worm on the hook ewwww


            Rev 20:5 Got it!! Let the studying commence! And I wont let any friendships interfere...
            I will sing of your works & your mighty ways
            My Rock & My Salvation
            Who will hide me in the time of trouble?
            Who is like the lord, so full of gace and truth!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DaniHansen View Post
              At the return of Jesus. Who, by the way, is only coming back ONCE.
              I believe it only once...are there some who argue he is coming back twice? Or shoud I not even go down that road...
              I will sing of your works & your mighty ways
              My Rock & My Salvation
              Who will hide me in the time of trouble?
              Who is like the lord, so full of gace and truth!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JesusReignsForever View Post
                I believe it only once...are there some who argue he is coming back twice?
                If there is a pre-trib rapture, then obviously that means that Christ is coming back at least twice. Since I know that concept is not taught in Scriptures, I choose to be post-trib. Christ only comes back one time that way, just like the Scriptures claim. So whether a pre-tribber wants to admit it or not, Christ has to return at least two times according to that view. Personally I don't see how that's possible, since the Scriptures fail to mention that Christ returns more than once. But this is just my own opinion tho.

                In the OT we see many references to the day of the Lord. Are we to believe that there is more than one day of the Lord? Could not these passages be referring to that same day? Different perspectives perhaps? Or perhaps the day of the Lord spans a great deal of time, and isn't meant to be interpreted literally as a 24 hour day?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DaniHansen View Post
                  At the return of Jesus. Who, by the way, is only coming back ONCE.
                  AMEN! Never forget that one brother.. it seems some can't quite grasp it.
                  Dragonfighter1
                  Vivo est Ministro

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You asked for it...

                    Originally posted by JesusReignsForever View Post
                    Oh yipeeee!! I love to go fishing a nice can of worms would be great.. but Im not putting the worm on the hook ewwww


                    Rev 20:5 Got it!! Let the studying commence! And I wont let any friendships interfere...
                    The double can of worms award is handed out only rarely...moonglow and I are the creators and "can wranglers". Please enjoy!
                    Dragonfighter1
                    Vivo est Ministro

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JesusReignsForever View Post
                      I wanted to re-read the book of Revelations and I was getting kinda condused on where the rapture should take place. It could be because the bible I'm reading is not my usual version and also I was at work so I really couldnt get into the Good Book like I wanted to. So can someone pin point where i should re-read?

                      Muchas Gracias mi hermanos and hermanas en Christo.... a lil spanish kick for ya!!
                      Well, you will get MANY different answers on here.

                      However, as far as the timeline in Rev. I see the rapture as taking place at the 6th seal...Rev. 6:12-17

                      Although the raptured is not directly mentioned there, it does fit with the signs in the sun, moon and stars as I can show in my blog which I will post in a minute.

                      However, we do see the RESULT of the rapture in Rev. 7:9-17. There is a multitude of saints in heaven so great in number and they have come out of the great tribulation.

                      This chart may help you understand the timeline. It is from a prewrath point of view and shows the timing of the rapture in relation to the seals and the 7 year period. The little yellow stars with numbers represents the seals in Revelation. Any questions, let me know.
                      http://www.solagroup.org/articlespix/charts/chart16.jpg

                      Here is my blog which supports my view of a pre-wrath rapture and shows how the rapture is linked with the signs in the sun, moon and stars, and thus would place it at the 6th seal of Revelation.

                      The Rapture of the Church


                      by "Truthinlove"
                      5/25/07


                      I believe Scripture clearly defines when the rapture will happen in relation to other end-time events. My desire is that instead of taking my word for it, this article would encourage you to compare the Scriptures to each other and pray and see if you come to the same conclusion.

                      The Bible tells us that we won't know the day or hour of the rapture (Matt. 24:36), but just a couple of verses earlier (vs. 32 &33), He teaches us that we can know the season.

                      1 Thess. 4:13-18 & 5:1-2 describes the rapture. "And now, dear brothers and sisters, I want you to know what will happen to the Christians who have died so you will not be full of sorrow like people who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus comes, God will bring back with Jesus all the Christians who have died. I can tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet Him ahead of those who are still in their graves. For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with Him forever. So comfort and encourage each other with these words. I really don't need to write to you about how and when all this will happen, dear brothers and sisters. For you know quite well that the day of the Lord will come unexpectedly like a thief in the night." NLT

                      The last two sentences are in a new chapter, but we must read it in context because his thought continues on the same topic of the rapture. In the original text there were no chapter or verse breaks. He has not changed the subject. If you were to start in ch. 5 you would naturally ask "when will what happen"? And the answer is the rapture, because that is what he was just talking about!

                      Paul gives us a name in regards to the timing of the rapture, it is the Day of the Lord. Clearly the rapture is tied together with the day of the Lord!! So, when does the day of the Lord begin?

                      Two very important Scriptures will help us out.

                      2 Thess. 2:1-4 says "And now, brothers and sisters, let us tell you about the coming again of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet Him. Please don't be so easily shaken and troubled by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Even if they claim to have a vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us, don't believe them. Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy every god there is and tear down every object of adoration and worship. He will position himself in the ....temple.. of ..God...., claiming that he himself is God." NLT

                      In other words, the day that Christ comes and gathers us (the rapture) at the beginning of the day of the Lord will not happen until after the antichrist defiles the temple, an event which clearly happens at the halfway point of the 7 year period. (Dan. 9:27).

                      Joel 2:31 gives us the signs that happen prior to the day of the Lord "The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes."

                      So, now I would refer you back to the the Olivet Discourse in Matt. 24.

                      Here again the rapture is tied together with the day of the Lord...perfectly paralleling what Paul teaches in 1 & 2 Thessalonians.

                      Matt. 24:29-31 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

                      We see the signs that announce the beginning of the day of the Lord, then we see the rapture. Notice the rapture and the day of the Lord will come after the midpoint when antichrist begins his persecution of the Jews and saints. Again, this parallels Paul's teaching about the rapture without contradiction.

                      I see these two texts as essential to knowing the timing of the rapture.

                      The Day of the Lord not a 24 hour day, it is a time period of unknown duration when God will pour out His judgment on the wicked during the 70th week. The Day of the Lord contains the wrath of God. Believers will not endure the wrath of God. (1 Thess. 1:10 & 5:9, Romans 5:9)

                      In Revelation, the Day of the Lord begins in Rev. 8, after the signs in the sun, moon & stars and after the rapture of the saints which is shown as the great multitude in heaven having come out of the great tribulation. The rapture occurs at the 6th seal in Revelation. After the cosmic signs, but before the Day of the Lord.

                      In Luke 21:28 we are told "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near" in relation to the signs in the sun, moon and stars, because the rapture will take place after those signs and then God's wrath will begin.

                      2 Thess. 1:6-8 says "For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ."

                      We are given relief (raptured) from affliction (persecution by antichrist, aka - great tribulation) when Jesus comes, and then He will punish the wicked.

                      The days of the 2nd Coming are compared to the days of Noah and ..Lot.. (Matt. 24:37-39, Luke 17:26-30).
                      The righteous were rescued and the wicked destroyed on the same day. It will be "just the same" when Jesus returns. Also, the wicked mocked Noah for preparing and building the ark, but they were destroyed in the flood. It will be the same in the last days (2 Peter 3:3-4).

                      From the comparison of these Scriptures, I have come to the conclusion that the rapture will happen at the 6th seal of Rev. sometime during the 2nd half of the 7 years, after the great tribulation by the antichrist. Then the wrath of God will be poured out in the Day of the Lord via the trumpet and bowl judgments.


                      Here is a sequence of Revelation that may help you understand while studying it. Again, people do disagree on this, but this is the most straight-forward way to read Revelation taking it at face value.

                      The seals, trumpets and bowls are chronological, the book of Rev. is chronological too, but with ch. breaks to give more detail of events that will happen during the time period he already described.

                      Ch. 1 - Introduction to Revelation
                      Ch.'s 2 & 3 - Warnings to the churches
                      Ch.'s 4 & 5 - Into to the seals
                      Ch. 6 - The seals
                      Ch. 7 - Intro to the trumpets
                      Ch.'s 8 & 9 - Description of the trumpet judgments
                      Ch. 10 - Conclusion to seals & trumpets
                      Ch.'s 11, 12, 13, 14 - (Break in the chronological events to give more detailed info) Description of events that occur during the seals & trumpets
                      Ch. 15 - Intro to the bowl judgments
                      Ch. 16 - Bowl judgments
                      Ch.'s 17 & 18 - (Break in the chronological events to give additional info)
                      Description of the religious and political Babylon
                      Ch. 19 - Armageddon
                      Ch. 20 - Millennium
                      Ch. 21 - New heavens & earth, New Jerusalem described
                      Ch. 22 Epilogue

                      The trumpets and/or bowls can not overlap or happen at the same time as the seals because of Rev. 7:3! This gives even more proof to the judgments being chronological. First the 7 seals, THEN the 7 trumpets, THEN the 7 bowls.

                      Rev. 7:3 "...saying 'Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bondservants of our God on their foreheads."

                      The sealing happens after the opening of the 6th seal, but before the 7th.
                      The 1st trumpet burns up 1/3 of the grass and trees
                      The 2nd trumpet turns 1/3 of the sea to blood and 1/3 of the creatures die and ships destroyed
                      The 3rd trumpet makes 1/3 of the freshwater bitter
                      The 2nd bowl is sea becoming blood
                      The 3rd bowl turns the freshwater to blood

                      If the trumpets and bowls overlapped the seals, that would make Rev. 7:3 impossible because it says for the angels to wait and NOT harm the earth, sea or trees until the sealing of the 144,000. It can't be happing at the same time when the sealing has to precede it.

                      God bless you in your study of Revelation!

                      "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near" Rev.1:3
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Whoa... I didn.t know Jesus was really to come back to earth more than once (which is te judgment day).
                        To God be the greatest glory and praise Him throughout the days of our lives.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kangkongking View Post
                          Whoa... I didn.t know Jesus was really to come back to earth more than once (which is te judgment day).

                          Search the scriptures for yourself PLEASE dont read into it....you gotta know for yourself!! Which is why I am asking so I can gather and reread and ask the good lord to open my eyes so I can see the truth. I cant believe Jesus is coming back twice. I believe he is only coming back ONCE.
                          I will sing of your works & your mighty ways
                          My Rock & My Salvation
                          Who will hide me in the time of trouble?
                          Who is like the lord, so full of gace and truth!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Truthinlove View Post
                            Well, you will get MANY different answers on here.

                            However, as far as the timeline in Rev. I see the rapture as taking place at the 6th seal...Rev. 6:12-17

                            Although the raptured is not directly mentioned there, it does fit with the signs in the sun, moon and stars as I can show in my blog which I will post in a minute.

                            However, we do see the RESULT of the rapture in Rev. 7:9-17. There is a multitude of saints in heaven so great in number and they have come out of the great tribulation.

                            This chart may help you understand the timeline. It is from a prewrath point of view and shows the timing of the rapture in relation to the seals and the 7 year period. The little yellow stars with numbers represents the seals in Revelation. Any questions, let me know.
                            http://www.solagroup.org/articlespix/charts/chart16.jpg

                            Here is my blog which supports my view of a pre-wrath rapture and shows how the rapture is linked with the signs in the sun, moon and stars, and thus would place it at the 6th seal of Revelation.

                            The Rapture of the Church


                            by "Truthinlove"
                            5/25/07


                            I believe Scripture clearly defines when the rapture will happen in relation to other end-time events. My desire is that instead of taking my word for it, this article would encourage you to compare the Scriptures to each other and pray and see if you come to the same conclusion.

                            The Bible tells us that we won't know the day or hour of the rapture (Matt. 24:36), but just a couple of verses earlier (vs. 32 &33), He teaches us that we can know the season.

                            1 Thess. 4:13-18 & 5:1-2 describes the rapture. "And now, dear brothers and sisters, I want you to know what will happen to the Christians who have died so you will not be full of sorrow like people who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus comes, God will bring back with Jesus all the Christians who have died. I can tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet Him ahead of those who are still in their graves. For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with Him forever. So comfort and encourage each other with these words. I really don't need to write to you about how and when all this will happen, dear brothers and sisters. For you know quite well that the day of the Lord will come unexpectedly like a thief in the night." NLT

                            The last two sentences are in a new chapter, but we must read it in context because his thought continues on the same topic of the rapture. In the original text there were no chapter or verse breaks. He has not changed the subject. If you were to start in ch. 5 you would naturally ask "when will what happen"? And the answer is the rapture, because that is what he was just talking about!

                            Paul gives us a name in regards to the timing of the rapture, it is the Day of the Lord. Clearly the rapture is tied together with the day of the Lord!! So, when does the day of the Lord begin?

                            Two very important Scriptures will help us out.

                            2 Thess. 2:1-4 says "And now, brothers and sisters, let us tell you about the coming again of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet Him. Please don't be so easily shaken and troubled by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Even if they claim to have a vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us, don't believe them. Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy every god there is and tear down every object of adoration and worship. He will position himself in the ....temple.. of ..God...., claiming that he himself is God." NLT

                            In other words, the day that Christ comes and gathers us (the rapture) at the beginning of the day of the Lord will not happen until after the antichrist defiles the temple, an event which clearly happens at the halfway point of the 7 year period. (Dan. 9:27).

                            Joel 2:31 gives us the signs that happen prior to the day of the Lord "The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes."

                            So, now I would refer you back to the the Olivet Discourse in Matt. 24.

                            Here again the rapture is tied together with the day of the Lord...perfectly paralleling what Paul teaches in 1 & 2 Thessalonians.

                            Matt. 24:29-31 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

                            We see the signs that announce the beginning of the day of the Lord, then we see the rapture. Notice the rapture and the day of the Lord will come after the midpoint when antichrist begins his persecution of the Jews and saints. Again, this parallels Paul's teaching about the rapture without contradiction.

                            I see these two texts as essential to knowing the timing of the rapture.

                            The Day of the Lord not a 24 hour day, it is a time period of unknown duration when God will pour out His judgment on the wicked during the 70th week. The Day of the Lord contains the wrath of God. Believers will not endure the wrath of God. (1 Thess. 1:10 & 5:9, Romans 5:9)

                            In Revelation, the Day of the Lord begins in Rev. 8, after the signs in the sun, moon & stars and after the rapture of the saints which is shown as the great multitude in heaven having come out of the great tribulation. The rapture occurs at the 6th seal in Revelation. After the cosmic signs, but before the Day of the Lord.

                            In Luke 21:28 we are told "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near" in relation to the signs in the sun, moon and stars, because the rapture will take place after those signs and then God's wrath will begin.

                            2 Thess. 1:6-8 says "For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ."

                            We are given relief (raptured) from affliction (persecution by antichrist, aka - great tribulation) when Jesus comes, and then He will punish the wicked.

                            The days of the 2nd Coming are compared to the days of Noah and ..Lot.. (Matt. 24:37-39, Luke 17:26-30).
                            The righteous were rescued and the wicked destroyed on the same day. It will be "just the same" when Jesus returns. Also, the wicked mocked Noah for preparing and building the ark, but they were destroyed in the flood. It will be the same in the last days (2 Peter 3:3-4).

                            From the comparison of these Scriptures, I have come to the conclusion that the rapture will happen at the 6th seal of Rev. sometime during the 2nd half of the 7 years, after the great tribulation by the antichrist. Then the wrath of God will be poured out in the Day of the Lord via the trumpet and bowl judgments.

                            Here is a sequence of Revelation that may help you understand while studying it. Again, people do disagree on this, but this is the most straight-forward way to read Revelation taking it at face value.

                            The seals, trumpets and bowls are chronological, the book of Rev. is chronological too, but with ch. breaks to give more detail of events that will happen during the time period he already described.

                            Ch. 1 - Introduction to Revelation
                            Ch.'s 2 & 3 - Warnings to the churches
                            Ch.'s 4 & 5 - Into to the seals
                            Ch. 6 - The seals
                            Ch. 7 - Intro to the trumpets
                            Ch.'s 8 & 9 - Description of the trumpet judgments
                            Ch. 10 - Conclusion to seals & trumpets
                            Ch.'s 11, 12, 13, 14 - (Break in the chronological events to give more detailed info) Description of events that occur during the seals & trumpets
                            Ch. 15 - Intro to the bowl judgments
                            Ch. 16 - Bowl judgments
                            Ch.'s 17 & 18 - (Break in the chronological events to give additional info)
                            Description of the religious and political Babylon
                            Ch. 19 - Armageddon
                            Ch. 20 - Millennium
                            Ch. 21 - New heavens & earth, New Jerusalem described
                            Ch. 22 Epilogue

                            The trumpets and/or bowls can not overlap or happen at the same time as the seals because of Rev. 7:3! This gives even more proof to the judgments being chronological. First the 7 seals, THEN the 7 trumpets, THEN the 7 bowls.

                            Rev. 7:3 "...saying 'Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bondservants of our God on their foreheads."

                            The sealing happens after the opening of the 6th seal, but before the 7th.
                            The 1st trumpet burns up 1/3 of the grass and trees
                            The 2nd trumpet turns 1/3 of the sea to blood and 1/3 of the creatures die and ships destroyed
                            The 3rd trumpet makes 1/3 of the freshwater bitter
                            The 2nd bowl is sea becoming blood
                            The 3rd bowl turns the freshwater to blood

                            If the trumpets and bowls overlapped the seals, that would make Rev. 7:3 impossible because it says for the angels to wait and NOT harm the earth, sea or trees until the sealing of the 144,000. It can't be happing at the same time when the sealing has to precede it.

                            God bless you in your study of Revelation!

                            "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near" Rev.1:3
                            Thanks for this I dont have the time now to dig in like I want to but I promise I will be back later with my shovel in hand
                            I will sing of your works & your mighty ways
                            My Rock & My Salvation
                            Who will hide me in the time of trouble?
                            Who is like the lord, so full of gace and truth!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JesusReignsForever View Post
                              Thanks for this I dont have the time now to dig in like I want to but I promise I will be back later with my shovel in hand
                              Alrighty!
                              sigpic

                              Comment

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