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The book of Revelation

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  • #61
    Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

    satan is not the ruler.
    Yes he is and Christ said so. God has allowed this to happen until the 7th trump. Satan rules now, and will have even greater power in the GT when he gives power to the two beasts and they are allowed to war against the saints and to overcome them.

    The tragedy is after so much grace , satan remains the god of this world.
    That only proves God has allowed him to rule this world for the time being.

    They are sent a deluding influence to believe the lie , satan will then go forth in his short time with all power and the world who received not the love of the truth will get what they deserve.
    All the time Satan is allowed to have power in this world is a short time and it is God's will it be that way.

    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
      Yes he is and Christ said so.
      Really?
      Scripture and verse only please when Jesus said that...…………......You will not find him saying anything like this.
      And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

        Really?
        Scripture and verse only please when Jesus said that
        Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince (ruler) of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.



        Prince here doesn't mean second in command or something like we think in modern English, it means the ruler, the first in rank or power:

        G758
        a?´????
        archoŻn
        ar'-khone
        Present participle of G757; a first (in rank or power): - chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.




        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

        Comment


        • #64
          The only power the devil possesses is the power of seduction and deception. 2Co 11: 3 But I fear, by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so that your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

          Yet, he is empowered by the wicked man to control the wealth of the world. Luke 4: 5-7 And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will give it. If therefore thou wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

            How more so in the future??

            He has all authority now in heaven and earth , that's what he told us.
            He also told us that he will judge in the future when he comes, those who do not receive the love of truth by the word he has already spoken. Jesus made it clear that they will utterly perish.
            Jesus will not reign over those in the future, who lacked faith in the truth and sanctification through his Spirit in this present age. He made it very clear that we repent or we perish at his glorious coming appearing.
            Jesus hasn't exercised his complete authority over evil rulers (Hitler etc). The bible is clear that Jesus currently has all authority, and that he will use that authority over the nations at the second coming. Nations are currently ruled by evil leaders, that will stop at the second coming. That will be a positive change, when evil leaders no longer rule.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

              Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince (ruler) of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.



              Prince here doesn't mean second in command or something like we think in modern English, it means the ruler, the first in rank or power:

              G758
              a?´????
              archoŻn
              ar'-khone
              Present participle of G757; a first (in rank or power): - chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.
              Well said. Satan can only have authority to the extent mankind succumbs to his tempting thoughts. Unfortunately mankind does give in to Satan, even during this age. Us Christians win the battle through taking captive every thought, to not dwell on the negative thoughts, but quickly replace them with more biblical thoughts.

              Ephesians 6: our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms

              2 Cor 10: The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.


              Unfortunately much of the world does succumb to the temptations of the evil one, and in this way I agree with you that Satan does have much authority during this age. Certainly he is not in the bottomless pit, as I quoted, our fight is against the "powers of this dark world", " in heavenly realms"

              Satan has the ability to lead the whole world astray:
              The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray

              Those who believe otherwise should incorporate these verses into their doctrine so that their views are more balanced, embracing these verses and allowing these verses to fit into their viewpoint in a wholesome way. I believe that to meditate on the word, means to ponder on it. Embracing its meaning and looking for what was truly meant.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                I believe that we are in the thousand year reign now so I see things different

                the 1260 days or 42 months or 3 1/2 months are not the same timelines that’s why they are described differently the short period or Satan doesn’t have a timeline to it in the bible
                OK. That's clear. Thanks for the exchange. I think the others profited by it. Go well bro.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

                  satan is not the ruler. Jesus stripped him of his possessions by taking the keys of death away from him. He has nothing in Jesus...who has been given everything.

                  The tragedy is after so much grace , satan remains the god of this world. They are sent a deluding influence to believe the lie , satan will then go forth in his short time with all power and the world who received not the love of the truth will get what they deserve.
                  Even now, in this age, our fight is "against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

                  Satan will be removed from heaven only after the church triumphs by the blood of the lamb, and the word of our testimony and martyrdom:

                  Satan " has been hurled down.
                  11 They triumphed over him
                  by the blood of the Lamb
                  and by the word of their testimony;
                  they did not love their lives so much
                  as to shrink from death." (Rev 12)


                  I John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                    Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince (ruler) of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.



                    Prince here doesn't mean second in command or something like we think in modern English, it means the ruler, the first in rank or power:

                    G758
                    a?´????
                    archoŻn
                    ar'-khone
                    Present participle of G757; a first (in rank or power): - chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.



                    Jesus uttered those words before his victory on the cross.

                    He spoke these words after the cross...,

                    Matt 28
                    18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
                    19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
                    20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”


                    Rev 1
                    5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—
                    6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.


                    satan no longer has the authority to offer all the kingdoms of the world to anyone.

                    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

                      Jesus uttered those words before his victory on the cross.
                      Yes and he was speaking about what was going to happen after the cross. Satan was coming and would be the ruler of the world. You said no scripture would say Satan was a ruler of the world but that was clearly an incorrect statement.

                      satan no longer has the authority to offer all the kingdoms of the world to anyone.
                      Yes he has that ability because he rules the kingdoms of the world. That only ends at the 7th trump. Satan will give kingdoms to ten kings that will agree to be part of the beast empire that rules the world for 42 months. Satan will give the AC a kingdom so large it's composed of smaller kingdoms. Your claim Satan does not have this ability contradicts many scriptures that disagree with you.



                      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                        Yes and he was speaking about what was going to happen after the cross. Satan was coming and would be the ruler of the world.
                        He was already the ruler of the world before the cross. The cross wasn't designed to give him more power, but crush it.


                        Yes he has that ability because he rules the kingdoms of the world. That only ends at the 7th trump. Satan will give kingdoms to ten kings that will agree to be part of the beast empire that rules the world for 42 months. Satan will give the AC a kingdom so large it's composed of smaller kingdoms. Your claim Satan does not have this ability contradicts many scriptures that disagree with you.

                        satan has no power or authority to bring this to pass whenever he likes. It wont happen until Gods appointed time of the end.



                        7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.



                        The appearing of Jesus coming will destroy the revealing of satans activity in all power and deception. Jesus has all the authority and has satan on a chain.



                        11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.




                        And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

                          He was already the ruler of the world before the cross.
                          All the verse says is Satan is the ruler of the world and is coming not that he became the ruler of the world when he arrived.

                          The cross wasn't designed to give him more power, but crush it.
                          No, that wasn't something the cross did. He remained ruler of the world past the cross and to this day. He is no longer the ruler of the world at the second coming, and he will be imprisoned and unable to deceive the world. He will be released for a short time and then will be finally defeated and cast into the LOF forever.



                          satan has no power or authority to bring this to pass whenever he likes. It wont happen until Gods appointed time of the end.
                          Satan has the authority to bring this to pass though, yes God oversees this but Satan still is allowed the power to do this.


                          The appearing of Jesus coming will destroy the revealing of satans activity in all power and deception. Jesus has all the authority and has satan on a chain.
                          Satan is not "on a chain" since he can go anywhere he wants, even to heaven but his activities are controlled by God as he was in the book of Job where God allowed him to persecute Job and kill his family. By God's will, Satan is the ruler of the world and has much authority especially over the deceived of the world but a time comes when he will be allowed authority even over the saints during the GT and will kill them.







                          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

                            Jesus uttered those words before his victory on the cross.

                            He spoke these words after the cross...,

                            Matt 28
                            18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
                            19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
                            20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”


                            Rev 1
                            5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—
                            6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.


                            satan no longer has the authority to offer all the kingdoms of the world to anyone.

                            Yes Jesus entered the house and bound the strong man and took his possessions

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                              Yes Jesus entered the house and bound the strong man and took his possessions
                              He hasn't done that yet else Satan would have no power to rule as he is. This will take place at the 7th trump when Christ takes all of Satan's kingdoms and people from him and cast him into a prison.
                              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                                Yes Jesus entered the house and bound the strong man and took his possessions
                                It’s like King Nebuchadnezzar satan is the prince of the air

                                Ephesians 2:2
                                in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.


                                God made King Nebuchadnezzar the king of kings

                                Daniel 2:37
                                37Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory;

                                Even though King Nebuchadnezzar was king of kings God was still the true lord of all and when King Nebuchadnezzar gave the glory to himself and not god god took it away

                                Daniel 4:29-31
                                29 Twelve months later, as the king was walking on the roof of the royal palace of Babylon, 30 he said, “Is not this the great Babylon I have built as the royal residence, by my mighty power and for the glory of my majesty?”

                                31 Even as the words were on his lips, a voice came from heaven, “This is what is decreed for you, King Nebuchadnezzar: Your royal authority has been taken from you.

                                Thus even though the bible calls satan the ruler of the air it is only because God allowed it and God is still the true ruler and always has been and Jesus took it back his authority at the cross but satan is still allowed to rule until the second coming



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