Who is the entity which comes up from the pit and kills the 2W's? The dragon, Satan.

[ross3421]

Firstly we can say that flesh cannot come up from the pit. So the entity coming up from the pit needs to be spirit in nature. Then we this entity then making war and kills the 2W's. Therefore this entity coming up from the pit is spirit in nature then must unite with a fleshly body on earth and become a man. So the question needs to be asked what spirit can come up from the pit and have the power to then overcome the 2W's? Not just any demon spirit.

⁷

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Now we see another reference of an entity coming up from the pit in Rev 17. Now we see this same entity becomes a king. He is the 8th king and the one dressed in scarlet whom the woman is riding. We also see the 8th king is "of" the seven. We see in verse 10 John speaks of kings so then this 8th king is of the seven kings.

⁸

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

⁹

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

¹⁰

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

¹¹

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

So who has seven kings? The dragon.

³

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Some may say the 7 heads are not seven kings. Surely there are not 7 literal mountains upon the dragon in heaven nor 7 worldly empires. Rather these 7 heads are kings in which the woman is supported. The city is supported by these 7 kings likened unto mountains whereby she is supported. Thus the dragon has 7 kings in his government as does the Lamb of God as well.

So it is the dragon, Satan who comes up from the pit and kills the 2W's. Therefore the event of Satan coming up again from the pit some 1000 years later does not happen.

For those who continually want to post Rev 20 and claim the 1000 years is literal then need to explain what spirit entity comes up from the pit and is able to kill the 2W's if not Satan.

[Follower1977]

The beast looks like the dragon because the dragon is Satan an evil spirit like your saying , but spirit operates through flesh , the beast is made of men serving Satans will kings , and kingdoms, ....The beast is interesting , have you considered the correlations to other prophecy when dealing with revelation ? For instance

“Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.”
Daniel 7:2-9, 16-17, 19-21, 23-27 KJV

“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.”
Revelation 13:1-3, 5-9 KJV


“And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
Revelation 17:7-8, 10-17 KJV



Notice that Daniels four beasts have seven heads and ten horns , have the appearance of a lion , bear and lead pars and all of them are in the future from Daniels point in time a few hundred years before johns vision . johns vision is a further unfolding you see now that a lot of time has passed since we saw the beast because five of the heads John sees , have already ruled and fallen . One was ruling currently , and only one of the heads was yet to come . Then there was the ten kings represented by the horns , which were all yet to rise from johns point in time. John sees the final head about to rise when he was writing

It's always a good idea to remember John is told to write those things that have been , those things that are currently ( from his perspective in time) and also things that were to come . There is a past , present , future view in revelation , and it all leads to showing what was soon to take place , but every word in revelation isn't concerning the future , it's purpose is to show events through time , to reveal what's to come , or offer a revelation

[angelmike]

⁷ [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT="Helvetica Neue"][SIZE=16px]And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

The AC will kill them.

[ross3421]

The AC will kill them.

Who is the AC? remember he comes up from the pit. So he must be man + demon spirit. Who is this demon?

The only demon scripture shows coming up from the pit is Satan. Understanding it is supposedly a 1000 years later. Thus it is not correct to think Satan can come up twice out of the pit...….That would make the coming up from the pit in Rev 11 and 20 the same event thereby making the 1000 years not literally a 1000 years.

[angelmike]

Who is the AC? remember he comes up from the pit. So he must be man + demon spirit. Who is this demon?

The only demon scripture shows coming up from the pit is Satan. Understanding it is supposedly a 1000 years later. Thus it is not correct to think Satan can come up twice out of the pit...….That would make the coming up from the pit in Rev 11 and 20 the same event thereby making the 1000 years not literally a 1000 years.

The Antichrist will kill them when their time is up. Just as Moses and Aaron were involved in the plagues in Egypt, there must be someone doing the work of God in Israel. Unfortunately, the Antichrist cannot kill them ahead of time, because they must remain there until the end. Thereafter, the Antichrist will be granted permission to kill the two witnesses at the end.

[ross3421]

The Antichrist will kill them when their time is up. Just as Moses and Aaron were involved in the plagues in Egypt, there must be someone doing the work of God in Israel. Unfortunately, the Antichrist cannot kill them ahead of time, because they must remain there until the end. Thereafter, the Antichrist will be granted permission to kill the two witnesses at the end.

You still are not answering the question....who is the AC?

Is the AC Satan + man?

[Walls]

You still are not answering the question....who is the AC?

Is the AC Satan + man?

Although 1st John calls him "antichrist", the correct designation for the man who comes up from the pit is "The Beast". Every indication is that he is a man. Even the text on the borromles pit makes him a man who has been a king, died, and will be resurrected. The "bottomless pit" must be Hades, for that is where dead men go.

Revelation 17:8-11;

⁸ "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
⁹ And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
¹⁰ And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
¹¹ And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Spirits cannot die. There are not seven Satans. This MAN was a king equal to the one ruling when John wrote. That he "WAS" and "IS NOT" and then will "ASCEND" can only be a man. And in Parable, the "sea" is the Nations. This Beast came out of the Nations - a Gentile - just as Daniel 9 predicted.

[angelmike]

You still are not answering the question....who is the AC?

Is the AC Satan + man?

Rev 13:2 and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. He cannot be Satan. He is a man. Just a thought. (There are some who believe that he is the son of Satan. Well, how will we know, because the word teaches that we will be found in Noah's time. Here we speak of the Nephilim)

[boangry]

You still are not answering the question....who is the AC?

Is the AC Satan + man?

You have it right my friend, the beast that ascends out of the pit and kills the two witnesses can be none other than Satan, He was the king of the world is not now and will yet be again.

This same beast controls the AC in fact Rev 13 shows us how the two beasts become one and also make another, verse 12 says he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. So in a sense I also agree the AC kills the two witnesses.

As to being an eighth head here is an example of the seven heads of the seven gentile world empires who rule a world empire that controls the land of Canaan.

Egypt - Pharaoh
Assyria - The Assyrian
Babylon - Nebuchadnezzar
Persia/Medes - Cyrus
Greece - Alexander
Rome - Caesar
Rome but also a combo of the last four beasts in the last days. - Antichrist


There is also a picture of Satan also entering into the presence of these world rulers with scripture showing the dragon having seven heads.

1. Pharaoh (Satan)
2. The Assyrian (Satan)
3. Nebuchadnezzar (Satan)
4. Cyrus (Satan)
5. Alexander (Satan)
6. Caesar (Satan)
7. Antichrist (Satan)
8. The eighth is therefore co-ruling and is (Satan)

So we have Satan being the seven rulers of the world, which as we can see makes him an actual eighth Rev 17:11"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

As an example Scripture speaks of Satan being Pharaoh when Israel left Egypt Satan entered unto the presence of Pharaoh and he was lured out to chase down the people of God and in prophetic picture the scene is repeated in tribulation. This is a peculiar motif throughout scripture God uses Satan/nations as judgement against Israel and Satan wants the chosen people as his slaves.

Ezek 29:3-4 Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon(leviathan) that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales.


The only thing I see as different from what you have posted is Rev 20 and equating Satan being released and coming up out of the pit as the one and same event. I see them as two totally different events and times, one at the end of the 70 weeks and one at the end of the kingdom age. The mystery age is not in the prophetic timeline at all and is for all means and purposes hidden from the prophets viewpoint and the other is the 1000yr period with pages and pages of prophecy that will be fulfilled, I cant see how Gods Word can be left unfulfilled.

In saying that is there any reason why you think they cant be different ages, except for the notion that Satan being bound and released can only happen once?

[marty fox]

Firstly we can say that flesh cannot come up from the pit. So the entity coming up from the pit needs to be spirit in nature. Then we this entity then making war and kills the 2W's. Therefore this entity coming up from the pit is spirit in nature then must unite with a fleshly body on earth and become a man. So the question needs to be asked what spirit can come up from the pit and have the power to then overcome the 2W's? Not just any demon spirit.

⁷

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Now we see another reference of an entity coming up from the pit in Rev 17. Now we see this same entity becomes a king. He is the 8th king and the one dressed in scarlet whom the woman is riding. We also see the 8th king is "of" the seven. We see in verse 10 John speaks of kings so then this 8th king is of the seven kings.

⁸

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

⁹

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

¹⁰

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

¹¹

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

So who has seven kings? The dragon.

³

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Some may say the 7 heads are not seven kings. Surely there are not 7 literal mountains upon the dragon in heaven nor 7 worldly empires. Rather these 7 heads are kings in which the woman is supported. The city is supported by these 7 kings likened unto mountains whereby she is supported. Thus the dragon has 7 kings in his government as does the Lamb of God as well.

So it is the dragon, Satan who comes up from the pit and kills the 2W's. Therefore the event of Satan coming up again from the pit some 1000 years later does not happen.

For those who continually want to post Rev 20 and claim the 1000 years is literal then need to explain what spirit entity comes up from the pit and is able to kill the 2W's if not Satan.

This entity below the destroyer is who comes out of the pit in revelation

Exodus 12:21-23

²¹ Then Moses summoned all the elders of Israel and said to them, “Go at once and select the animals for your families and slaughter the Passover lamb.

²²Take a bunch of hyssop, dip it into the blood in the basin and put some of the blood on the top and on both sides of the doorframe. None of you shall go out of the door of your house until morning.

²³ When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.

Notice this entity below is also called the destroyer and can't harm those who have the protected mark of God

Revelation 9:1-4 & 11

The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.

² When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.

³ And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.

⁴ They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

¹¹ They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).

Most would know him as the angle of death

[ross3421]

He is a man.

How can a man come up from the pit? A spirit must come up from the pit.

Rev 13:2 and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. He cannot be Satan

This is the first beast which reigns for 3.5 years but notice the beast does not come up from the pit until the 3.5 years has ended. The second beast is the one whom kills the 2Ws which arises after the 3.5 years for a little season 1260-1335.

⁷

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

So the beast does not kill them until the 3.5 years is finished. Do we think the beast came up at the start of 3.5 years and waited to kill them?

The second beast is the first beast man + spirit.

[ross3421]

This entity below the destroyer is who comes out of the pit in revelation

Exodus 12:21-23

²¹ Then Moses summoned all the elders of Israel and said to them, “Go at once and select the animals for your families and slaughter the Passover lamb.

²²Take a bunch of hyssop, dip it into the blood in the basin and put some of the blood on the top and on both sides of the doorframe. None of you shall go out of the door of your house until morning.

²³ When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.

Notice this entity below is also called the destroyer and can't harm those who have the protected mark of God

Revelation 9:1-4 & 11

The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.

² When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.

³ And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.

⁴ They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

¹¹ They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).

Most would know him as the angle of death

Would not the destroyer be Satan?

[marty fox]

Would not the destroyer be Satan?

No because revelation tells us he is also named appoylon Satan’s name is Lucifer they are also described differently

This I believe to be a powerful fallen angel a demon who once was a servant of God back in the days of exodus

[ross3421]

This same beast controls the AC in fact Rev 13 shows us how the two beasts become one and also make another, verse 12 says he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. So in a sense I also agree the AC kills the two witnesses.

Yes agree. I see the second beast man + spirit.

I don't see this happening until the 3.5 years of the first beast is over. Could be wrong here but it does appear the beast would not come up from the pit until the 2Ws are finished. Would he come up earlier and wait to kill them?

First beast 1----1260

Second beast 1260----1335

So we have Satan being the seven rulers of the world, which as we can see makes him an actual eighth Rev 17:11"[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue][SIZE=16px]And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

I see the heads differently. I see them as part of Satan, His 7 henchman so to speak, part of his government. I see then as seven demons aka God has 7 spirits as well.....Michael, Gabriel, Raphael ect...

In saying that is there any reason why you think they cant be different ages, except for the notion that Satan being bound and released can only happen once?

Many others but I think that Satan would only be able to be cast and released once not twice.

[ross3421]

No because revelation tells us he is also named appoylon Satan’s name is Lucifer they are also described differently

This I believe to be a powerful fallen angel a demon who once was a servant of God back in the days of exodus

I don't see any reason the destroyer can't be Satan. Lucifer probably has many names. Lucifer was once a servant of God.