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Does not IS 14 show Satan in the pit before the second coming?

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  • Does not IS 14 show Satan in the pit before the second coming?

    12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

    15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

    17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

  • #2
    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

    15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

    17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
    You will note that the whole prophecy is written in the present tense. Isaiah wrote before the king of Babylon, yet his end is present tense. This is normal in prophecy from God who sees the end from the beginning. Thus, Lucifer's future is also seen as if it were accomplished.

    The end of Revelation 19 starts every verse with "AND". And if we ignore the Chapter heading (which does not appear in the original), verse 1 of Chapter 20 starts with an "AND".

    The word "and" in Greek ("kai") is a conjunction that (i) "joins" two or more different things, (ii) shows additional things and (iii) it shows a sequence. Thus, the great battle of Chapter 19 comes first. Then comes the judgement and fate of the Beast and the False Prophet.THEN comes Satan's fate for 1,000 years. THEN comes the 1,000 years in which Satan is bound. Then comes his release for a short while.

    On a side note, it is interesting that "Sheol" is used to describe Satan's prison. I was, for many years, puzzled by this as Sheol is the place of dead MEN, and "Tartaroo" the prison of spirits (2nd Pet.2:4). One day it dawned on me that it was not Sheol itself, but the "SIDE" of the Pit (v.15). Hades and Tartaroo must be adjoining - yet separate.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
      12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

      13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

      14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

      15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

      16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

      17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
      The last verse would basically be what happens during the GT so that being past tense means Satan in the pit would be post-trib which would be after the second coming. It is the second coming that causes Satan's defeat and the defeat of the beast and armies. Naturally that is when Satan is imprisoned. Satan is allowed to be free throughout the GT and is shown free at it's end in the 6th vial. Christ returned before any vials were poured.

      Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
      Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.


      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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      • #4
        I too am of the opinion that this prophecy of Satan being in the pit is after the tribulation in agreement to what ewq has said I also think that God uses/allows Satan too lay waste to the cities on the earth in the coming tribulation judgments.
        Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
        12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
        Also in agreement with Walls that these verses are written in the present tense but speaking of a future fulfilment, I guess the question is when do these things happen. Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. :18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.




        [
        13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

        14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
        Dan 8:9-10 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

        And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.



        Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
        Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.



        15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
        The reason I lean to this being after the tribulation is simply because of how I apply Daniels prophecy of 70 weeks, Those alive at the time of Christ who studied the Scriptures had roughly calculated and were expecting the 70 weeks to be fulfilled at about 40AD hence they were expecting the Messiah to come onto the scene at the time of Jesus, they were mistakenly but understandably expecting Him to set up the physical kingdom and to save Israel, even John the Baptist was confused, so I see the church age as commencement of a heavenly kingdom but it is also a mystery age, what I mean is it is not on the prophets timeline of events, the events skip over the church period to the tribulation, and then onto the 1000yr period.
        16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

        17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
        I can understand the amil perspective of Israels cities becoming a waste throughout the now kingdom when they reject God such as Jer_25:11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

        And the warnings for Israel that if they did not follow God would result in this judgment seems to be fulfilled now, Except for the fact that Israel is now gathering back into its land and cities.

        But at the same time theres prophecies about Egypt and Edom becoming a waste and astonishment as well and these have not happened yet, which is why I still lend to a future kingdom and fulfilment of Gods Word

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
          12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

          13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

          14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

          15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

          16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

          17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
          None of Isaiah 14 pertains to Satan or the pit. This whole proverb pertains to the King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. This is a proverb to Nebuchadnezzar illustrating the haughtiness of his heart. Nebuchadnezzar felt he was invincible and had become so great and so powerful, felt that nothing could stop him, even God.

          But if you read in Daniel, you will see that God did bring him down. God foretold his prophecy in this proverb in Isaiah 14.

          You will also note in verse 13, that he ascended first, and then from there had fallen.

          1) Did Nebuchadnezzar actually ascend into heaven? Of course he did not. But he was a very mighty king, and perhaps more mighty in his own mind.
          2) Was Nebuchadnezzar actually brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit? No he was not. Although his kingdom was stripped from him, and he was made to live as a beast in the fields for 7 years. His fate was being compared to that of being falling to hell or to the pit.
          3) Was Nebuchadnezzar looked upon narrowly? Yes! No one had pity on him. Even is own grandson who reined afterward gave no regard to his estate.

          Again, this is a proverb for the king and had nothing at all to do with Satan or Lucifer except for the power and influence Satan had on King Nebuchadnezzar. But if you read Daniel, you will see that the king was restored back to his kingdom and afterward found favor with God, being humbled, turned toward God.

          Therefore, this in no way reflects Satan or Lucifer in the past before creation.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Walls View Post

            Thus, Lucifer's future is also seen as if it were accomplished.
            I agree with you in this regard. Any comparisons God made to Nebuchadnezzar with that of Lucifer or Satan would be regarding the actual fate of both the king and Satan were foretold in advance.
            1) How they both ascended to greatness and became so powerful.
            2) How they both oppress the innocent.
            3) How both of their staffs and/or sceptre's will be broken and power removed.
            4) All rejoiced at both their destruction
            5) Both have their kingdoms stripped from them.
            6) All of these aspects of both their future are foretold in advance.




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            • #7
              Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
              12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

              13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

              14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
              This statement was the desire in his heart and the reason for his fall from heaven. His arrogance and pride forced him to rebel against God.

              15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

              16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
              A prophetic judgment of the punishment that is before him. Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. He will be tormented like anyone else who rebelled against God.

              17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
              All the devil did was wreak havoc. There was no peace on earth for man. He destroyed everything that was possible, lives, marriages, etc. Even nature, God's creation was ruined by him. He spiritually destroyed man by sin and directed man against God with the aim that man would suffer. All that is bad he taught man to bind himself in a spiritual prison.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by angelmike View Post

                All the devil did was wreak havoc. There was no peace on earth for man. He destroyed everything that was possible, lives, marriages, etc. Even nature, God's creation was ruined by him. He spiritually destroyed man by sin and directed man against God with the aim that man would suffer. All that is bad he taught man to bind himself in a spiritual prison.

                I think your misunderstanding what is meant by making the world a wilderness. You see when Christ returns the world will be a wilderness after the trumpets and vials, pestilence, wars, famines ect…. So too then before the one claiming to be God (AC by name) the world must be in a wilderness condition for to be deceptive. The AC just cant arrive in calm but chaos. He will make it calm and fruitful. Matt 24 shows us how this world will become a wilderness before the one claiming to be God in verse 15. Rev 17 shows the world in this condition.

                17
                That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

                This is how the world becomes a wilderness

                6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
                7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
                8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

                Rev 17 shows the world in this state upon the rise of the AC.

                3
                So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                  12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

                  13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

                  14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

                  15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

                  16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

                  17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
                  ross3421,
                  I believe Satan being put in the pit is a matter of perspective, like this,

                  they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved 2Pet.2:19

                  Peter was referring to human beings, but the same is true of demons. It's through the knowledge of Christ that we realize Satan has always been in the pit.



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by journeyman View Post
                    ross3421,
                    I believe Satan being put in the pit is a matter of perspective, like this,

                    they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved 2Pet.2:19

                    Peter was referring to human beings, but the same is true of demons. It's through the knowledge of Christ that we realize Satan has always been in the pit.
                    No, he has not always been in the pit and isn't there now. He is only locked in the pit one time and that is at the second coming. Satan has been freely roaming around like a lion since he first became satan.

                    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ewq1938,
                      No, he has not always been in the pit and isn't there now. He is only locked in the pit one time and that is at the second coming. Satan has been freely roaming around like a lion since he first became satan.
                      Consider how sin affects people. It enslaved them, imprisons them. Why should it matter whether that person is flesh and blood or spirit? Satan is trapped in an endless cycle of sin with no way out.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TMarcum View Post

                        None of Isaiah 14 pertains to Satan or the pit. This whole proverb pertains to the King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. This is a proverb to Nebuchadnezzar illustrating the haughtiness of his heart. Nebuchadnezzar felt he was invincible and had become so great and so powerful, felt that nothing could stop him, even God.

                        But if you read in Daniel, you will see that God did bring him down. God foretold his prophecy in this proverb in Isaiah 14.

                        You will also note in verse 13, that he ascended first, and then from there had fallen.

                        1) Did Nebuchadnezzar actually ascend into heaven? Of course he did not. But he was a very mighty king, and perhaps more mighty in his own mind.
                        2) Was Nebuchadnezzar actually brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit? No he was not. Although his kingdom was stripped from him, and he was made to live as a beast in the fields for 7 years. His fate was being compared to that of being falling to hell or to the pit.
                        3) Was Nebuchadnezzar looked upon narrowly? Yes! No one had pity on him. Even is own grandson who reined afterward gave no regard to his estate.

                        Again, this is a proverb for the king and had nothing at all to do with Satan or Lucifer except for the power and influence Satan had on King Nebuchadnezzar. But if you read Daniel, you will see that the king was restored back to his kingdom and afterward found favor with God, being humbled, turned toward God.

                        Therefore, this in no way reflects Satan or Lucifer in the past before creation.
                        Great insight! I don't believe Satan is ever referenced as son of the morning.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RogerW View Post

                          I don't believe Satan is ever referenced as son of the morning.
                          IS 14
                          How art thou fallen from heaven, O
                          Lucifer
                          ,
                          son of the morning!
                          how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

                          It is not what you believe. Read!!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TMarcum View Post

                            None of Isaiah 14 pertains to Satan or the pit. This whole proverb pertains to the King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. This is a proverb to Nebuchadnezzar illustrating the haughtiness of his heart. Nebuchadnezzar felt he was invincible and had become so great and so powerful, felt that nothing could stop him, even God.

                            But if you read in Daniel, you will see that God did bring him down. God foretold his prophecy in this proverb in Isaiah 14.

                            You will also note in verse 13, that he ascended first, and then from there had fallen.

                            1) Did Nebuchadnezzar actually ascend into heaven? Of course he did not. But he was a very mighty king, and perhaps more mighty in his own mind.
                            2) Was Nebuchadnezzar actually brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit? No he was not. Although his kingdom was stripped from him, and he was made to live as a beast in the fields for 7 years. His fate was being compared to that of being falling to hell or to the pit.
                            3) Was Nebuchadnezzar looked upon narrowly? Yes! No one had pity on him. Even is own grandson who reined afterward gave no regard to his estate.

                            Again, this is a proverb for the king and had nothing at all to do with Satan or Lucifer except for the power and influence Satan had on King Nebuchadnezzar. But if you read Daniel, you will see that the king was restored back to his kingdom and afterward found favor with God, being humbled, turned toward God.

                            Therefore, this in no way reflects Satan or Lucifer in the past before creation.
                            If I understand properly, you have just shown how the prophecy CAN'T apply to Lucifer in the pit, but at the same time it CANNOT apply to the king of Babylon. Maybe you can reconcile it. It is my experience that prophecy is fulfilled literally and accurately. Could it be that it is the other way around. God names the TRUE "king" of Babylon - Lucifer? In Luke 4 we see Lucifer have power over the kingdoms of this world, and even the Beast must receive his power from Satan. In Revelation 13:2-4 we learn;

                            2 "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
                            3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
                            4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"


                            This would also harmonize with Ephesians 3:10, "To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God", and Ephesians 6:1, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." In the New Testament we are commanded to submit to the "flesh and blood" higher powers, but "WRESTLE" against heavenly powers in high places. We are bidden to submit to earthly kings but RESIST the Devil.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Walls View Post

                              If I understand properly, you have just shown how the prophecy CAN'T apply to Lucifer in the pit, but at the same time it CANNOT apply to the king of Babylon. Maybe you can reconcile it. It is my experience that prophecy is fulfilled literally and accurately. Could it be that it is the other way around. God names the TRUE "king" of Babylon - Lucifer? In Luke 4 we see Lucifer have power over the kingdoms of this world, and even the Beast must receive his power from Satan. In Revelation 13:2-4 we learn;
                              Amen Walls. Now a deeper thought. Lucifer has 7 heads, 7 spiritual henchmen so to speak which go forth to all the world. So I see these 7 spirits going into 7 leaders in past and yet future history Nebuchadnezzar would have been #1 and so on.....

                              So it's more on the spirits being these 7 heads and indwelling kings than the these seven men themselves being the actual 7 heads.

                              Likewise the last head being Satan himself and a king on earth. The 8th head.

                              So another thought, it appears Satan waits for certain men on earth to obtain much power whereby then he is indwelled by him (7 heads and then himself). Thus creating events to his plan. Perhaps the person himself is unaware of this event to happen. So are we to look for one king here on earth to rise in great power whereby Satan will take advantage and indwell him? I think so. Now of course this person cannot be already fill with the Spirit of God.

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