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Revelation 11

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  • Originally posted by ross3421 View Post

    When is his body physical and when is it only spiritual? Is Satan sometimes only have a spiritual body and not physical and vice versa? What are you meaning?
    Satan doesn't have a spiritual body. He has a physical, angelic body as all angels have.

    He can send his spirit forth and possess people but that is a spirit not a spirit body.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
      No, they are from dead animals to be used as sound makers to make audible signals usually as commands to an army or to announce a presence to an enemy army.

      The horns in Rev and Daniel are horns that grow out of the heads of symbolic living animals...these horns are said to be kings with kingdoms and not removed horns used for loud sounds by humans.

      So, a literal horn used by a real human is vastly different than symbolic horns on symbolic living animals in prophetic writings.
      So when David said "the horn of my salvation", he was referring to the horn of dead animals? So the horn of dead animals provide salvation, is that what you're telling your readers? Don't even know how to begin to respond to this...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
        He has one body, physical. His spirit is not a "spirit body"
        Can you cite just one scripture where Satan appeared in HIS physical body?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
          Well you can't. You want to say it's wrong but can't discredit it it's scriptural and logical.
          Of course, it is logical to you, but nonsensical to everyone else.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
            Satan doesn't have a spiritual body. He has a physical, angelic body as all angels have.

            He can send his spirit forth and possess people but that is a spirit not a spirit body.
            Do really understand the meaning of a spiritual and physical body? Seems you don't know the difference between them.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

              Because it's placed after the end of the GT in the gospels which makes it after the 7th trump has sounded.

              Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
              Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
              Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

              The two prophets rose into heaven before verse 29.

              I am still not following your logic that the sign of the son of man which occurs after the end of the GT has to occur after the 7th trump has sounded.
              In the section on the trumpets, the 2 witnesses rise before the 7th trump.
              Why can't their rising from the dead and ascension into heaven come immediately after the GT?
              Why can't this event be the thing that makes people stop following the AC, ending his reign over the earth, bringing the 7th trump?



              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

              This EQ happens at the second coming and matches this same EQ:

              Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


              This is also at the second coming.


              Like I said, I remember our disagreement over whether there are 2 EQ in Rev 6.

              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              But, there was an earlier EQ before the second coming EQ:

              Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
              Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

              Everything before verse 14 here is before the second coming. The 6th trump EQ is not the same EQ in the 7th trump.

              I agree with this.








              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              The sign of the son of man is not those things. It's simply his brightness seen in the clouds. It's when he is there meeting the raptured saints before finishing his return which is mentioned in the same verse:


              Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.




              Those are the same EQ but the one in the 6th trump is a different one and happens before the 7th trump EQ.

              We are in agreement on the timing of the earthquakes, but not about the sign of the son of man.
              Haven't the angels made a brightness appear?
              Doesn't lightning light up the sky?
              This doesn't seem to be a unique characteristic.
              It is not nearly as unique as rising from the dead and then ascending into heaven.




              Not always:

              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              Rev_19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
              Why wouldn't we refer to these groups as they are found in other parts of the Revelation?
              The voice of a great multitude is the voice of the great multitude from Rev 7:9.
              The voice of many waters is a reference to Jesus as I have already quoted.
              The voice of mighty thunderings is a reference to the 7 thunders of Rev 10:4.

              Rev 19:6 seems also to be found in Rev 11:15.
              "
              And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

              Isn't this another example of the repetitive nature of the book of Revelation?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 6paths View Post
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                I am still not following your logic that the sign of the son of man which occurs after the end of the GT has to occur after the 7th trump has sounded.
                Because the sign and Christ are seen at the same time and Christ doesn't come until the trump sounds. It's not the type of sign that appears days or years before an event. I believe it will be the brightness of his return seen maybe a second before he is seen.


                In the section on the trumpets, the 2 witnesses rise before the 7th trump.
                Why can't their rising from the dead and ascension into heaven come immediately after the GT?

                Because they rise before the 7th trump, maybe an hour or so before it so theirs is within the 6th trump which is the GT. It is the 7th trump that ends the GT and starts the day of wrath from God.


                Why can't this event be the thing that makes people stop following the AC, ending his reign over the earth, bringing the 7th trump?
                The two prophets rising back to life definitely will tell everyone that the AC was not God because he wouldn't kill them or have them killed and then resurrect them as well but a few things must happen before the 7th trump sounds like an EQ etc.









                Rev 19:6 seems also to be found in Rev 11:15.
                "
                And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

                Isn't this another example of the repetitive nature of the book of Revelation?
                I don't see a connection between those two verses.

                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by angelmike View Post

                  the seventh angel sounded, and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of the world are become the property of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying, We thank You, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was and who is coming, that You have taken great power and reigned as King.
                  And the nations were wroth, and thy anger was come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the reward
                  Many people either miss the importance of this, or cannot reconcile it with their endtime view regarding the time the dead are judged and rewards are given.

                  Rev 22:7 “Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by David Taylor View Post

                    Many people either miss the importance of this, or cannot reconcile it with their endtime view regarding the time the dead are judged and rewards are given.

                    Rev 22:7 “Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.”
                    "and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints"

                    who would you say this would include?

                    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by David Taylor View Post

                      Many people either miss the importance of this, or cannot reconcile it with their endtime view regarding the time the dead are judged and rewards are given.

                      Rev 22:7 “Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.”
                      The scripture refers to the acceptance of Christ that will come at the Second Coming. It is an insertion of speech about the things that must happen, but everything must be done in its own time and in order. Prophecy occurs consecutively as it should be. Not all the details regarding the prophecy have been entered, otherwise we would need a wheelbarrow to carry everything along. What is given to us is usually the main points that God finds important for us to know. Christ made the decision as He also swore to the Father that there would be no more time for the wicked to reign.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                        Because the sign and Christ are seen at the same time and Christ doesn't come until the trump sounds. It's not the type of sign that appears days or years before an event. I believe it will be the brightness of his return seen maybe a second before he is seen.





                        Because they rise before the 7th trump, maybe an hour or so before it so theirs is within the 6th trump which is the GT. It is the 7th trump that ends the GT and starts the day of wrath from God.



                        The two prophets rising back to life definitely will tell everyone that the AC was not God because he wouldn't kill them or have them killed and then resurrect them as well but a few things must happen before the 7th trump sounds like an EQ etc.


                        Trumpet 6 will begin before the GT, as it will take at least some time for them to move from the Euphrates River to Jerusalem to put an end to Jewish sacrifice.
                        Just as trumpet 6 begins before the GT, the armies of AC will not be defeated when the 2 witnesses rise into heaven, but the total allegiance to AC will come to an end at that time.
                        The 2 witnesses will be resurrected at the time of the Rev 11:13 EQ. EQs and resurrections seem to go together.
                        Since trumpet 6 begins before the GT, it is not unreasonable for the ascension into heaven to come after the GT and before trumpet 7.

                        Consider Luke 21:25-27:
                        25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
                        26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
                        27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

                        There would not be any time for men's hearts to fail them for fear if no was little to no time between the signs in the sun, moon, and stars; and Jesus coming.

                        In Rev 16, there seems to be a whole season of God's wrath, which I place immediately after the sun, moon, star event and Jesus return.



                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by 6paths View Post
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                          Trumpet 6 will begin before the GT, as it will take at least some time for them to move from the Euphrates River to Jerusalem to put an end to Jewish sacrifice.
                          Just as trumpet 6 begins before the GT, the armies of AC will not be defeated when the 2 witnesses rise into heaven, but the total allegiance to AC will come to an end at that time.
                          The 2 witnesses will be resurrected at the time of the Rev 11:13 EQ. EQs and resurrections seem to go together.
                          Since trumpet 6 begins before the GT, it is not unreasonable for the ascension into heaven to come after the GT and before trumpet

                          Rev 16, there seems to be a whole season of God's wrath, which I place immediately after the sun, moon, star event and Jesus return.


                          Matt 24 says the wrath is over once the moon sun star event occurs and if there was still more wrath to occur it would pale in comparison as the ones which had occurred were the greatest and God's wrath would be like never seen before

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by 6paths View Post
                            but the total allegiance to AC will come to an end at that time.

                            The 6th vial begs to differ.

                            James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ross3421 View Post

                              Matt 24 says the wrath is over once the moon sun star event occurs and if there was still more wrath to occur it would pale in comparison as the ones which had occurred were the greatest and God's wrath would be like never seen before
                              Matt 24 says that the tribulation (which is separate from the wrath of God) is over once the moon sun star event occurs.
                              The tribulation is AC v 2 witnesses, Jews and Christians.
                              The wrath is God v AC and his followers.

                              If God did not stop the period of great tribulation, every human being would have been killed in the war.
                              Think of nuclear war. MAD - Mutually Assured Destruction.
                              When God fights, God wins and he protects!

                              God's wrath is shown to follow the great tribulation 4 times in the Revelation.
                              1. The earthquake of Rev 6:12 is the last event of the GT as seen with the moon sun star event. God's wrath follows the earthquake.
                              2. People die and go to heaven during the GT of Rev 7:9-17. God's wrath follows in Rev 8:5. God's throne on earth is symbolized by lightnings, thunderings, voices, and an earthquake.
                              3. The 3.5 year GT is the time of the 7 thunders of Rev 10, the 42 months of the rebuilt temple and the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses in Rev 11 followed by God's wrath in Rev 11:18-19.
                              4 The 42 month reign of AC is followed by the 144,000 in heaven in Rev 14, which is followed by God's wrath in Rev 14:19.

                              God's wrath is specifically shown as Rev 16.
                              The throne of God comes to earth as a Mt Sinai type of event in Rev 16:18 and Jesus, who is still coming as a thief after 6 vials have been poured out (Rev 16:15) brings hail Rev 16:21, all of which is the wrath of God Rev 16:19.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                                The 6th vial begs to differ.
                                The 6th vial concerns all who still follow the AC after the GT has ended.
                                Rev 16:15 is a direct contrast, showing that not everyone will join the armies of AC.

                                Chapter 14 shows the same thing after the 42 month reign of AC in chapter 13; if only you believed they occur in chronological order.
                                Two groups form after verses 1-5.
                                Group 1 goes with Jesus v 14-16.
                                Group 2 is destroyed at Armageddon v 17-20.as per the 6th vial.

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