Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Revelation 17—The Beast Both Here and Not Here

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Revelation 17—The Beast Both Here and Not Here

    Revelation 17:8 says—"The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction." Revelation 17:9 says—"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come."

    How can one reconcile these two? One says the beast is now no more; but v.9 says one of its heads is now. How can the beast be both here and not here at the same time?
    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at injustice, but rejoices with the truth. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and always perseveres.

  • #2
    Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
    Revelation 17:8 says—"The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction." Revelation 17:9 says—"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come."

    How can one reconcile these two? One says the beast is now no more; but v.9 says one of its heads is now. How can the beast be both here and not here at the same time?
    The beast that was and is not, though he is, refers to the heads that reigned. Each head is attached to the body. The head cannot go without the body and the body without the head. The angel speaks of the beast before giving the explanation of the heads. Each kingdom is represented by a head, yet the body is connected to it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
      Revelation 17:8 says—"The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction." Revelation 17:9 says—"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come."

      How can one reconcile these two? One says the beast is now no more; but v.9 says one of its heads is now. How can the beast be both here and not here at the same time?
      Revelation 17:8-11;

      8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
      9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
      10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
      11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."


      Note: The grammar of verses 9 and 10 does not say that the seven heads are seven kings. It says that the woman sits of seven hills AND there are (also) seven kings. It does not read; "The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And they (the mountains) are seven kings." It reads; "The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are (in addition) seven kings." The word "and" is CUMULATIVE. The seven hills show which world power Satan is behind at that time - the city on seven hills - Rome. And (IN ADDITION) this Rome has SEVEN KINGS (which pertain to this prophecy).

      Let's do the maths.
      • The Beast is one seven kings. He is not the king reigning as John writes. So he is one of the first five
      • He is also not the seventh who comes for a short time
      • The Beast was, and is not - he is dead
      • Where do dead men go - Hades, in the "heart of the earth" (Matt.12:40)
      • If he is to reign, he MUST, at some time, come out of Hades - the pit, or abyss
      But we have to clear up TWO THINGS:
      1. Why is he called the "eighth" when his reign is as THE LAST CAESAR (remember, his is the last kingdom existing when Christ crushes Gentile rule to powder)
      2. Why can he come out of Hades if he is a Gentile. The Gentiles are only resurrected AFTER Christ has returned and reigned for 1,000 years (Rev.20:11-13)
      1. Eight is the number of resurrection. Christ was raised "on the morrow AFTER the Sabbath (the seventh). So this king - a Caesar, is one of the five leading up to the sixth who was ruling at John's time (ca. 95 AD). He is already dead as John writes, but will be resurrected. It is his resurrection that makes him EIGHTH - not his sequence.

      2. According to 1st Corinthians 15:22-26, the sequence for resurrection is:
      1. FIRST Christ
      2. NEXT - those who are His (v.23) "AT HIS COMING". That is, the Church and Israel - and this 2,000 years later
      3. NEXT - when death is conquered. Death is OVERCOME by Christ's resurrection, but as long as one man is still dead, DEATH IS STILL AROUND. The last man to be raised from the dead is AFTER Christ has returned and reigned for 1,000 years - "the REST of the dead"
      Strictly speaking, the Caesar who comes out of Hades should do so 1,000 years after Christ returns, but here we have him coming out of the pit BEFORE Christ returns. HOW COME? The answer is in Daniel 7:25, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

      The first thing in studying the Beast is that he is "GIVEN" everything. Of himself he can do nothing. He want's to change the TIME of resurrection - but he can't. God gives it to him. He wants to change Laws - it must be given to him. So while he desires it, God allows it. And what is the TIME that he changed? The TIME of his resurrection!

      Of course, taking all the evidence, the answer all adds up.
      • Nero was one of the five Caesars leading up to John's prophecy
      • Nero was the worst persecuter of Christians in Rome's history
      • Nero was dead at the time of John's prophecy
      • Nero's NAME is the only name which in Hebrew and Greek numeric adds up to six-hundred-and sixty-six.


      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
        Revelation 17:8 says—"The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction." Revelation 17:9 says—"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come."

        How can one reconcile these two? One says the beast is now no more; but v.9 says one of its heads is now. How can the beast be both here and not here at the same time?
        This is because there are actually two ruling spirits and two kingdoms involved in the final empire.

        5 were, then Rome is (6th), Rome then gets wounded (7th). The antichrist /little horn is the 8th. This beast is Rome, wounded then recovered. It existed when Rev was written. It will reveal itself as a recovered Roman Empire.

        The little horn controls 3 of the 10. It is a beast kingdom of 3 horns WITHIN the ten horned beast kingdom. Situated in the Levant (Israel/Syria). This beast lost its power and disappeared when the Seleucid kingdom was destroyed, before Rev was written. This beast was and is not and yet will come.

        Summary:
        Wounded beast is recovered Rome, of TEN countries
        Re-appearing beast is a future kingdom of THREE countries (most likely Syria/Israel/Iraq), the Seleucid re-established. The antichrist is direct conqueror of the 3, but indirect leader of the 10.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
          Revelation 17:8 says—"The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction." Revelation 17:9 says—"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come."

          How can one reconcile these two? One says the beast is now no more; but v.9 says one of its heads is now. How can the beast be both here and not here at the same time?
          Because the beast is a demon who was in the abyss at the time of John writing Revelation and the kings are people who ruled under the beast empire

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
            Revelation 17:8 says—"The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction." Revelation 17:9 says—"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come."

            How can one reconcile these two? One says the beast is now no more; but v.9 says one of its heads is now. How can the beast be both here and not here at the same time?
            The beast which Johns sees in the future the woman riding is the 8th. He is the one which came up from the pit.

            Was means he was in heaven, is not means he went to the pit, yet is means he came up from the pit. Note coming up from the pit represents the head being healed. This is strictly speaking of the 8th head.

            Now John says currently 5 have fallen, and one is, and one yet to come. The one is the 6th head and all of the 7 heads needs to fall for the 8th to come about.. So at the time when John is seeing this vision the 6th head is in control.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
              Revelation 17:8 says—"The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction." Revelation 17:9 says—"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come."

              How can one reconcile these two? One says the beast is now no more; but v.9 says one of its heads is now. How can the beast be both here and not here at the same time?
              The answer is fairly simple. You are taking two things that are not equal and making them equal.
              1. A beast symbolizes a kingdom.
              2. A head symbolizes a king.

              The problem arises when you make a head both a king and a kingdom. That's not what the scripture teaches here. There is but one kingdom, the beast. The 7 heads are 7 kings of this one kingdom. 5 have fallen, the 6th one IS, and the 7th and 8th ones come after. At the time John wrote this the beast, aka this kingdom, IS NOT, but it will ascend, in the future from the bottomless pit... from the graveyard of kingdoms. But when John tells us that the 6th head/ king IS, the confusion comes when you think that it is referring to the 6th kingdom, and not the 6th king.
              John is painting the picture of "the judgment of the whore", AND NOT the judgment of the beast . The TIME of the judgment of the whore comes AFTER the beast [who currently IS NOT] has risen from the bottomless pit. The woman IS a great city that reigns over the kings of the earth. The time of her judgment is twofold.
              1. When she is decked with splendor, and
              2. The 6th king of this currently non - existent kingdom, has arisen. And the 7th is portrayed in Rev 13 as a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns. From Rev 17, we find that it is this kingdom of 10 horns, under the leadership of the 7th head, that brings judgment to the whore, the great city. And once the words of God are fulfilled (in judgment upon the great city) , then the 8th king (of this same kingdom, the beast) will arise and rule a final 42 months.
              The. Beast currently IS NOT, but will arise again in the last days.

              Be Blessed
              The PuP

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
                Revelation 17:8 says—"The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction." Revelation 17:9 says—"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come."

                How can one reconcile these two? One says the beast is now no more; but v.9 says one of its heads is now. How can the beast be both here and not here at the same time?
                You are going to get so many answers you are just going to be confused. God will teach you the truth. I can tell you but you need to ask God for clarity.

                Look at the Rev. 12 Beast he has 7 CROWNS on 7 HEADS which signifies who he is, The Dragon {Beast} and the 7 Heads are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome {ROME WAS at the time John wrote the book of Revelation}.....then the one that is YET TO COME is the Anti-Christ. So the Dragon {Satan} is over every Kingdom in this world, just like he told Jesus in Luke 4, but this is only pointing towards the Relevant Mediterranean Sea Region, Satan also has a Crown on Washington DC, Mexico City etc. etc. This points therefore to Satan dictating policies in the Mediterranean Sea Region by BEASTING OVER THEM !!

                Rev. 13 has TEN CROWNS on the 10 Horns/Kings because those 10 FREELY give their power unto him, thus he is the Seventh Head UNDER the Dragon, but he is OVER the 10 Kings of Europe thus he is DESIGNATED as the Beast over the Mediterranean Sea Region during the END TIMES 70th week tribulation period.

                The Rev. 17 Scarlet Colored Beast has NO CROWNS at all, because his Kingdom is not of THIS WORLD, he is a Demon named Apollyon, I can prove that by tracking him in the book of Revelation. {Later}. In Ephesian 6:12 we see how Demons are placed over regions bu Satan.

                Rev. 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

                So Apollyon was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan long ago, the Jewish peoples name for him means The Destroyer, hes been trying to kill all the Jews from time immemorial, Satan appoints certain Demons to certain region, see Ephesians 6:12 above !! So Apollyon was over Egypt and tried to take the Jews out via Slavery, then via the Chariots chasing them into the Red Sea, to no avail of course. He toted the 10 Northern Kingdoms off via Assyria, he took Israel into captivity in Babylon, then we see he leads Persia to defeat Babylon etc. etc. but of course he has to OBEY God's COMMANDS over Satan's commands, so in Daniel ch. 10, we see him {Apollyon} as the prince of Persia who RESISTED Micheal for 21 days, but in the end to no avail, Alexander the Great Conquered SWIFTLY just as Gabriel foretold Daniel would happen, and its no wonder, he had God fighting for him.....Zoom, zoom, zoom, he flew as a Leopard to victory !! After Greece he was over Rome, then after Israel was DISPERSED via the diaspora and there was NO Israel for nigh 2000 years AND the Church was born. Jesus told the Peter that the GATES OF HELL would not prevail over his Church. So this Rome WAS the HEAD WOUND, Rome turned from a Beast to a CONVEYOR BELT of the Gospel of Jesus Christ over time, thus God LOCKED Apollyon up in the Bottomless Pit nigh 2000 years ago, thus HE WAS......{Over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia Greece and Rome} then he WAS NOT.....Jesus locked him up in the Bottomless Pit 2000 some odd years ago so that the Church could thrive, he broke the POWER of the Centralized Beast over time so that the Church could grow and thrive, but the Church got its start under PERFECT CONDITIONS for it under the Pax Romanus, All Roads lead to Rome and they all spoke a common language, Koine Greek, thus Jesus came at the PERFECT TIME, of course, all the Subjects of Rome could travel freely, thus the Gospel could be spread !! Amen. So Apollyon is NOW IN THE PIT !! He will be released at the 1st Woe and will then again be OVER the Mediterranean Sea Region when the Anti-Christ Conquers Israel, Lebanon, Syria and ALL of North Africa {See Daniel 11:40-43} to become the BEAST, thus the Beast that has been DEAD for nigh 2000 years ARISES Again. Apollyon is released from the Bottomless Pit, he thus WAS............IS NOT {is in the Pit now}.............YET IS {He will be over the Mediterranean Sea Region and the LAST BEAST once again}. Thus Apollyon is OF THE SEVEN {he was of the 6 and will be over the Anti-Christ} and is an 8th in that he is the King of the Bottomless Pit. Apollyon KILLS the Two-witnesses in Rev. 11. He goes to destruction simply means he is a Son of Perdition, meaning he WILL BE IN HELL !!

                So the Scarlet Colored Beast with NO CROWNS is Apollyon.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post

                  The answer is fairly simple. You are taking two things that are not equal and making them equal.
                  1. A beast symbolizes a kingdom.
                  2. A head symbolizes a king.
                  Okay, that makes sense.

                  Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at injustice, but rejoices with the truth. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and always perseveres.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post

                    The answer is fairly simple. You are taking two things that are not equal and making them equal.
                    1. A beast symbolizes a kingdom.
                    2. A head symbolizes a king.
                    The beast is a kingdom, but so are the horns so I use the term of empire for the beast which is composed of smaller kingdoms. The heads however are not kings or kingdoms but where kingdoms are established. That makes sense with the analogy of heads and horns because heads are where horns sprout from.

                    Plus, 10 kingdoms can't come from 7 kings anyways. The ten horns are ten kings with kingdoms so the heads are clearly symbolic of something else and Rev 17 says mountains/hills and that's where ten city states (mini kingdoms) were located in pagan Rome.



                    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                      The beast is a kingdom, but so are the horns so I use the term of empire for the beast which is composed of smaller kingdoms. The heads however are not kings or kingdoms but where kingdoms are established. That makes sense with the analogy of heads and horns because heads are where horns sprout from.

                      Plus, 10 kingdoms can't come from 7 kings anyways. The ten horns are ten kings with kingdoms so the heads are clearly symbolic of something else and Rev 17 says mountains/hills and that's where ten city states (mini kingdoms) were located in pagan Rome.


                      King(s) and kingdomĺs) are inextricably linked. A king is not a king without a kingdom to rule over. A kingdom is not a kingdom if it does not have a king to rule over it . So they are connected. But neither in Daniel 7 not in Rev 17 where horns are symbolically used are they ever defined as kingdoms. Kings are symbolically represented only by horns. The same consistent typology is used for beast(s). A beast equals one kingdom and never is "A beast" is never used to describe multiple kingdoms. A kingdom is not subject to the bounds of time like a king is. Once you die, as the king, you are no longer king, nor the head of that kingdom. If you were the king of Babylon, once another takes the throne, you are no longer A KING. But the kingdom itself may continue on, or it might cease to exist as well .
                      When the 3 kings of Daniel 7, lose their dominion, they are no longer kings, but it's not because of death that they are no longer kings, but they are deposed from their thrones. The 10 horns are never said to be 10 kingdoms, but it is said that they give their (one) kingdom TO the kingdom of the beast... another kingdom altogether. Together they become one kingdom, the kingdom of the beast. But they can have only one head. A head also represents a king. But not a kingdom. When the head of a king ends his rule, another head, another king will take his place. But it is not said to have 2 heads, unless there is some sort of co-regency taking place. This is a common practice for the sake of maintaining the family dynasty. But you never have 3 heads ruling over the same kingdom. Even less so if there are 7 heads. 7 heads then represents the bounded rule of 7 kings over one kingdom... one beast.

                      So let's look at the Rev 17 beast with 7 heads. The woman sits on the beast with 7 heads. Is the woman sitting on the 7 heads? (OUCH!!!) No, the woman is sitting on the beast that has 7 heads. The heads are 7 kings spanning across time ruling over this one beast, aka kingdom. It also says that the woman is that great city that "reigns over the kings of the earth". Just a quick refresher here. Where does the 2nd beast from Rev 13 arise from? THE EARTH!

                      So, if the woman reigns over the 7 kings of the earth, spanning the time of the kingdom of the beast, is she reigning over all 7 at once? No, but one at a time. It's nor 7 kings simultaneously that she is reigning over, but she reigns over 7 heads, who are kings who rule over the same kingdom, the beast. After the head of the beast, the 7th head, is slain, it, the beast, is allowed to continue for 42 months. But afterwards the beast only has two horns. Look at what it says in Rev 13.

                      Rev 13:3 KJV And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

                      One of the HEADS was wounded to death, but the world wondered after the BEAST, and not after the wounded head. Continuing on, look at how the subject is the beast.

                      Rev 13:4 KJV And they worshipped the dragon which gave power UNTO the BEAST: and they WORSHIPPED the BEAST, saying, WHO is LIKE unto the BEAST? who is able to make war with HIM(the beast) ?

                      Rev 13:5 KJV And there was given unto HIM (THE BEAST) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto HIM to continue forty and two months.

                      The BEAST continues 42 months. Rev 13:6ff is not focusing on the wounded head, but rather on the beast. The "him" in the next couple verses is the beast and his new head. What does the beast look like afterwards?

                      Rev 13:11 KJV And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

                      It is the same beast, continuing on for 42 more months . The 8th king of Rev 17 is "of the seven", meaning that he is ruling over this same kingdom. But he is called the 8th king of the beast that is said to only have 7 kings because since the judgment by the 10 kings have fulfilled the words of God, The Lord is now king over all the earth, and he (the 8th king) is but an illegal usurper of the kingdom of the beast. Daniel 7 says, the judgment shall stand and the saints shall consume the kingdom of the beast unto the end.

                      Heads are indeed kings. But because we are talking about the beast being one and the same kingdom, the heads are not simultaneously reigning over this kingdom. You can't have the 6th king reigning over the beast, as the king of a kingdom, AND at the same time saying that the beast IS NOT. IF the beast were to be 7 kingdoms, and the "6th king is", the king of the beast, the result is a paradoxical impossibility... The 6th king and kingdom IS, but the kingdom of the beast IS NOT. The answer is that the beast and the gorgeously adorned woman (city) were not, in John's day, BUT the 6th king of the beast, and the woman, will be in the time of judgment, in the last days.

                      Be Blessed
                      The PuP

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post

                        King(s) and kingdomĺs) are inextricably linked. A king is not a king without a kingdom to rule over. A kingdom is not a kingdom if it does not have a king to rule over it . So they are connected. But neither in Daniel 7 not in Rev 17 where horns are symbolically used are they ever defined as kingdoms.
                        You just said, "A king is not a king without a kingdom to rule over.". The ten horns are kings who have kingdoms which they give to the beast for the hour of the GT.

                        Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

                        Each king would receive a kingdom, they simply didn't have kingdoms at the time of this writing.




                        The 10 horns are never said to be 10 kingdoms, but it is said that they give their (one) kingdom TO the kingdom of the beast
                        It's one kingdom per king so there are ten kingdoms within this larger kingdom or empire.




                        ... another kingdom altogether. Together they become one kingdom, the kingdom of the beast. But they can have only one head.
                        The beast empire has 7 heads not only one but these are lands not leaders or kings.




                        The heads are 7 kings spanning across time ruling over this one beast, aka kingdom.
                        The 7 heads are where the ten kingdoms exist. All these together under one leader, the AC, is what the Beast is. The only things that spanned across time were previous beast empires ruled by kings and each of these empire fell in history. John knew of 5 that had fallen and one that was falling. A 7th and 8th was still to come. Since there are a total of 7 heads not 8, and all exist at the same time we know the heads have nothing to do with the history lesson of the fallen kings.




                        So, if the woman reigns over the 7 kings of the earth,
                        There's only 10 kings aside from the Ac...there isn't just 7 kings at any point...not even in Daniel where the total ended up being 8.




                        spanning the time of the kingdom of the beast, is she reigning over all 7 at once?
                        She reigns over all 10 at once. These same ten will come to hate her and she will be harmed.

                        Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.




                        After the head of the beast, the 7th head, is slain, it, the beast, is allowed to continue for 42 months. But afterwards the beast only has two horns. Look at what it says in Rev 13.
                        No head is slain let alone number 7. One head out of 7 is wounded but it heals....that means zero heads fall, not 5 not a 6th...none.





                        Rev 13:3 KJV And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

                        One of the HEADS was wounded to death
                        "as it were" means it looked like it was going to die but it didn't.


                        Heads are indeed kings.
                        No, the horns are the kings with kingdoms. That makes the heads areas of land where kingdoms exist. These areas of land are called mountains, something rising up but nothing like Everest...more like what Rome was built upon and it's ten states but this will be global.






                        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
                          Revelation 17:8 says—"The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction." Revelation 17:9 says—"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come."

                          How can one reconcile these two? One says the beast is now no more; but v.9 says one of its heads is now. How can the beast be both here and not here at the same time?
                          You confuse the ENTITY over the Beast as being THE ONLY BEAST.....Now let me show you will that is not the case. A Beast is one who lords over an AREA via his Dominion.

                          Rev. 12 is about Satan The Dragon and HIS POWER over the 7 Beast Heads, so he was over the FIVE that have fallen.........THE ONE {Rome} that still was a Beast........AND he will be OVER the Anti-Christs Beast Kingdom so that ADDS UP to 7. It could be said he was IN HEAVEN for the Six and will be on earth for the 7th and that he is an 8th but the reason it doesn't say he is an 8th is because his kingdom is actually on this evil earth, thus he already has CROWNS on the 7 Heads just like Rev. 12 show,

                          So LIKEWISE the Scarlet Colored Beast is not a part of the 7 Headed Beast per se, but BEASTED over them via his Demonic Rule like Satan did, but hes not Satan, he is Apollyon, he was thus of the 5 who had Fallen......was of Rome {WHO STILL WAS A BEAST} but he was Placed in the Bottomless Pit by God thus he WAS NOT................but he YET IS in that he will be RELEASED at the first Woe. Meanwhile the Rome Beast EVENTUALLY received a Mortal Wound in that the Church overcame the Beast Rome and turned it into a Conveyor Belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

                          So THE BEASTS are not THE SAME Entities. You have three just in the book of Revelation as per being OVER the Mediterranean Sea Region.

                          1. Satan the Rev. 12 Beast with CROWNS on the 7 Heads of all the Kingdoms who ruled over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region. For nigh 2000 years Israel was as Dead Men's Bones so thee was NO BEAST over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region in God's eyes because the bible is not about the Mediterranean Sea Region per se, bit about Israel and His Church.

                          2. Rev. 13 speaks about The Anti-Christ. He is a BEAST as were the other 6 Heads over the Mediterranean Sea Region, who are over the WHOLE REGION & Israel at the same time !! The Anti-Christ on Rev. 13 is shown with TEN CROWNS on ten horns/Kings in that the 10 Kings freely give their Kingdoms unto the Anti-Christ.

                          3. Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast of Rev. 17, he is currently in the Bottomless Pit, he is The King of the Bottomless Pit, he has NO CROWNS in the Rev. 17 depiction, thus he was of the 7 but is an 8th in that his Kingdom is not of this earth.

                          So THE BEAST that was and is not is a Demon NAMED Apollyon...........the 7 Headed Beast is about 7 Earthly Kingdoms who have human Kings over them.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                            You just said, "A king is not a king without a kingdom to rule over.". The ten horns are kings who have kingdoms which they give to the beast for the hour of the GT.

                            Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

                            Each king would receive a kingdom, they simply didn't have kingdoms at the time of this writing.






                            It's one kingdom per king so there are ten kingdoms within this larger kingdom or empire.






                            The beast empire has 7 heads not only one but these are lands not leaders or kings.






                            The 7 heads are where the ten kingdoms exist. All these together under one leader, the AC, is what the Beast is. The only things that spanned across time were previous beast empires ruled by kings and each of these empire fell in history. John knew of 5 that had fallen and one that was falling. A 7th and 8th was still to come. Since there are a total of 7 heads not 8, and all exist at the same time we know the heads have nothing to do with the history lesson of the fallen kings.






                            There's only 10 kings aside from the Ac...there isn't just 7 kings at any point...not even in Daniel where the total ended up being 8.






                            She reigns over all 10 at once. These same ten will come to hate her and she will be harmed.

                            Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.






                            No head is slain let alone number 7. One head out of 7 is wounded but it heals....that means zero heads fall, not 5 not a 6th...none.







                            "as it were" means it looked like it was going to die but it didn't.




                            No, the horns are the kings with kingdoms. That makes the heads areas of land where kingdoms exist. These areas of land are called mountains, something rising up but nothing like Everest...more like what Rome was built upon and it's ten states but this will be global.





                            If the beast is a kingdom, how does the phrase, "the beast was and is not" fit in with what you are saying? Were all 7 heads, aka land areas, once under the control of one kingdom? And what was that kingdom?

                            Be Blessed
                            The PuP

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
                              Revelation 17:8 says—"The beast that you saw—it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction." Revelation 17:9 says—"There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come."

                              How can one reconcile these two? One says the beast is now no more; but v.9 says one of its heads is now. How can the beast be both here and not here at the same time?
                              The beast was in the form of Old Babylonia, the kingdom of Nimrod, in the land of Shinar: 'let us make us a name' (Gn 10:8-11; 11:4). Also in the form of Assyria, its capital in Nineveh. Or, again, of the spirit of worldly arrogance and oppression showing itself in New Babylonia (think of Nebuchadnezzar and the captivity of the Jews); or in the kingdom of the Medes; and the Greco-Macedonia Empire from which came Antiochus Epiphanes of Syria (175-164 BC). All these kingdoms which the beast embodied have perished. They were, but are no more. The beast seems to have the ability to raise its head again and again after every defeat throughout the ages within the kingdoms of this world. Again and again the beast appears in a new embodiment. The form changes, but the beast remains throughout the history of the world until the judgment day.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X