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  • 6 Paths Revelation Chart

    Before Daniel’ 70th week First 3.5 years 3.5 years great tribulation 75 days of God’s wrath
    Seals 1-4. Death is limited to of the earth until a new world empire emerges. Seal 5 - Martyrs Martyrs Martyrs
    Seal 6 – Earthquake of Rev 6:12 is last event of the great tribulation
    Martyrs
    Seal 6 – Everything after the earthquake. Ends with the Father & Son.
    Rev 7:1-8. 144,000 Israelites become Christian Rev 7:9-7:17. Spirits of Christians are in heaven. Seal 7. Silence when 2 witnesses of Rev 11 rise into heaven as sign of Son of man. Ends with Father.
    Trump 1- WWII
    Trump 2- Axis defeated
    Trump 3 - Chernobyl
    Trump 4 – Nuclear cloud
    Trump 5 – Helicopters with non-lethal gas under authority of antichrist -AC
    Trump 6 – Army of AC
    7 thunders.
    Jewish Temple completed
    2 witnesses prophesy.
    Trump 7 – Ends with the Father/lightnings, thunders, voices, earthquake and the Son.
    At Trumps 1 – War in heaven. 2 -Satan defeated. 3,4 – Satan on earth with his angels. At Trump 5 – Satan first persecutes Israel for 5 months. Using army of Trump 6, Satan kills Christians & controls economy. 144,000 are the 2 witnesses of Rev 11, seen in heaven. Ends with Son/winepress or hail.
    All 7 vials. Ends with Father/lightnings, thunders, voices, earthquake & Son/hail.
    Rev 18 & 19. God takes control. Ends with Son/winepress
    There are 6 separate chronological stories in the Revelation that end with the coming of the Father and/or the Son.

    Row 1: Rev 6:1-6:17. Four consecutive conquerors had 100% authority to put people to death before Jesus conquered. The sun, moon, star event of Matt 24:29 confirms the earthquake of Rev 6:12 is the last sign of the great tribulation. Unbelievers acknowledge the Father and the Son because of their presence. Jesus’ coming would be as a thief (unknown) if he had not already come. The Father will come as he did on Mt. Sinai during the Exodus.

    Row 2: Rev 7:1-8:5. A new world empire can not be “blown in” until the 144,000 are sealed. Lightnings, thunders, and voices signal the throne of God from Rev 4:5. God’s throne is on earth when an earthquake is added.

    Row 3: Rev 8:6-11:19. When AC marches his army from the Euphrates River to Jerusalem, the Great Tribulation begins. A remnant of Jews will flee and innumerable Christians will be killed. 2 candlesticks are 2 churches Rev 1:20

    Row 4: Rev 12:7-14:20. Heavenly war coincides with war on earth. The 144,000 are firstfruits or the first people to be resurrected and then rise into heaven as did Jesus. They rose from earth as the 2 witness in Rev 11.

    Row 5: Rev 15:5-16:21. All of these signs occur during God’s period of wrath. Chronologically, Jesus will not come until after 6 vials have been poured out because he is still coming as a thief to unbelievers. Hail is what Jesus will use on the great day of his wrath Rev 6:17, in Rev 11:19, as the great winepress, squashing blood from men in Rev 14:20, Rev 16:21, and is the sword of Jesus in Rev 19:21.

    Row 6: Rev 18:1-19:21. Satan’s great city has fallen, but Satan still brings the world’s armies to Armageddon for the great slaughter or winepress. This story has parallels in Rev 14.

    The 6 rows are the 6 paths that end with the visible sighting of God the Father and/or God the Son.

    Note: Jews accept Jesus at the end of the 70th week. Jesus does not come at that time and the rapture does not take place until the 7th vial is poured out.

    Hello Everyone,

    Words are hard to follow, especially when trying to briefly explain the book of Revelation.
    To simplify the explanation, I thought this chart would help.
    I know everyone has their own theories, but is this chart understandable?

  • #2
    There's a lot I disagree with here. But just to pick something,

    how can the great tribulation be ending at the 6th Seal? The great tribulation is just beginning.

    The mark of the beast is offered after the fall of Babylon.

    Rev 14
    6 Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

    8 Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion] of her sexual immorality.”

    9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
    The fall of Babylon begins to occur at the 2nd Trumpet. The 'burning mountain' is a reference to Babylon. Jer 51

    24“I will repay Babylon and all the inhabitants of Chaldea before your very eyes for all the evil that they have done in Zion, declares the Lord.

    25Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain,
    declares the Lord,
    which destroys the whole earth;

    I will stretch out my hand against you,
    and roll you down from the crags,
    and make you a burnt mountain.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by 6paths View Post
      Hail is what Jesus will use on the great day of his wrath Rev 6:17
      Hail will be found on the day of wrath but hail is not mentioned in the 6th seal.




      The 6 rows are the 6 paths that end with the visible sighting of God the Father and/or God the Son.
      Looks like a lot was left out in order to come to the number 6...there's really more than that.




      I know everyone has their own theories, but is this chart understandable?
      No. It mashes things from Daniel into Rev where they don't belong like this "75 days" thing.



      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by blur1 View Post
        There's a lot I disagree with here. But just to pick something,

        how can the great tribulation be ending at the 6th Seal? The great tribulation is just beginning.
        The 6th seal simply shows us a glimpse of the end of the GT and the day of wrath before it actually happens. The real time end of the GT is found at the end of Rev 11, which is the same timeframe of the 6th seal.

        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by blur1 View Post
          There's a lot I disagree with here. But just to pick something,

          how can the great tribulation be ending at the 6th Seal? The great tribulation is just beginning.


          Thank you for picking something.

          Matthew provides signs in the sun, moon, and stars; that immediately follow the period of great tribulation.
          These same signs appear after the great earthquake of Rev 6:12.

          Matt 24:29 "
          Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

          Rev 6:"
          12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

          13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

          Matthew continues in verses 30 and 31 with the following signs:
          The sign of the Son of man in heaven
          Everyone will see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven.
          The resurrection and rapture will take place.
          All of these signs in Matthew are in chronological order and the story ends with verse 31.

          The sign of the Son of man is not in Rev 6, but everyone does see the Son of man in this chapter.
          Jesus is recognized for who he is. If he did not visibly come at this time, Jesus' coming would still be "as a thief" to those who name him in this passage.
          The signs in the sun, moon, and stars, and the sign of Jesus visible return are in order and they are at the end of the same story.

          The pattern of Matthew (the end of the great tribulation being followed by the coming of God) is found 4 times in the Revelation.


          [FONT=Helvetica]
          Originally posted by blur1;n2705261[/FONT
          ]
          The mark of the beast is offered after the fall of Babylon.

          Rev 14
          6 Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

          Although people may still accept the mark of the beast after the warning of this angel, the time of this passage is after the period of great tribulation, which is after the 42 month reign of antichrist.
          Antichrist had authority to put to death 100% of the population during his 42 months. At this point, that complete authority has come to an end, and the time of God's wrath has begun (the hour of his judgment).

          Just as the Revelation has 6 chronological stories, Matthew 24 has 2. The first story ends in verse 14.
          Matt 24:14 "
          And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
          After the world wide witness of this Rev 14 angel, the end shall come. This is the beginning of the end, the time after the great tribulation.

          [FONT=Helvetica]
          Originally posted by blur1;n2705261[/FONT
          ]
          8 Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion] of her sexual immorality.”

          9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
          Originally posted by blur1;n2705261[/FONT
          The fall of Babylon begins to occur at the 2nd Trumpet. The 'burning mountain' is a reference to Babylon. Jer 51

          24“I will repay Babylon and all the inhabitants of Chaldea before your very eyes for all the evil that they have done in Zion, declares the Lord.

          25Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain,
          declares the Lord,
          which destroys the whole earth;

          I will stretch out my hand against you,
          and roll you down from the crags,
          and make you a burnt mountain.
          I agree with your assessment that Babylon is representative of the authority of the antichrist.
          Some may still take the mark of the beast after the complete authority of antichrist has ended, but before she is completely destroyed.
          It is also my belief that Babylon will be the capital city
          (symbolic if not literal)
          of the final 10 nation world power.

          Notice how this fall of Babylon chronolgically appears after the great tribulation of Rev 13, after the sign of the Son of man in Rev 14:1-5, and before Jesus coming on a cloud and resurrecting/rapturing his people in Rev 14:14-16, consistent with the Matthew 24 account.

          If anyone accepts the mark of the beast during his 42 month reign, the same punishment will occur.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

            Hail will be found on the day of wrath but hail is not mentioned in the 6th seal.


            That is correct. Details from one story can be added to the other once the timing of them is known.



            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
            Looks like a lot was left out in order to come to the number 6...there's really more than that.

            All 6 of these stories end with throne of God with an earthquake and/or the coming of Jesus.
            What other stories end with the throne of God and/or the coming of Jesus?

            6 was an outcome that was found. I would have preferred 7.


            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
            No. It mashes things from Daniel into Rev where they don't belong like this "75 days" thing.
            I grant you that this "75 days" thing has little support as it is only found in 1 passage.
            However, the stories make it clear that the time of great tribulation is separate from the time of God's wrath.
            They also make it clear that Jesus will not return right at the end of the 70th week; but his return will be near the end of the period of God's wrath, during the 7th vial.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 6paths View Post

              Thank you for picking something.

              Matthew provides signs in the sun, moon, and stars; that immediately follow the period of great tribulation.
              These same signs appear after the great earthquake of Rev 6:12.

              Matt 24:29 "[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
              Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

              Rev 6:"
              12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

              13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

              Matthew continues in verses 30 and 31 with the following signs:
              The sign of the Son of man in heaven
              Everyone will see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven.
              The resurrection and rapture will take place.
              All of these signs in Matthew are in chronological order and the story ends with verse 31.

              The sign of the Son of man is not in Rev 6, but everyone does see the Son of man in this chapter.
              Jesus is recognized for who he is. If he did not visibly come at this time, Jesus' coming would still be "as a thief" to those who name him in this passage.
              The signs in the sun, moon, and stars, and the sign of Jesus visible return are in order and they are at the end of the same story.

              The pattern of Matthew (the end of the great tribulation being followed by the coming of God) is found 4 times in the Revelation.



              Although people may still accept the mark of the beast after the warning of this angel, the time of this passage is after the period of great tribulation, which is after the 42 month reign of antichrist.
              Antichrist had authority to put to death 100% of the population during his 42 months. At this point, that complete authority has come to an end, and the time of God's wrath has begun (the hour of his judgment).

              Just as the Revelation has 6 chronological stories, Matthew 24 has 2. The first story ends in verse 14.
              Matt 24:14 "
              And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
              After the world wide witness of this Rev 14 angel, the end shall come. This is the beginning of the end, the time after the great tribulation.

              [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica]

              I agree with your assessment that Babylon is representative of the authority of the antichrist.
              Some may still take the mark of the beast after the complete authority of antichrist has ended, but before she is completely destroyed.
              It is also my belief that Babylon will be the capital city
              (symbolic if not literal)
              of the final 10 nation world power.

              Notice how this fall of Babylon chronolgically appears after the great tribulation of Rev 13, after the sign of the Son of man in Rev 14:1-5, and before Jesus coming on a cloud and resurrecting/rapturing his people in Rev 14:14-16, consistent with the Matthew 24 account.

              If anyone accepts the mark of the beast during his 42 month reign, the same punishment will occur.
              The thing that is hard to convey about Matt 24 is exactly that passage you quote, verse 29

              Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

              Immediately after the abomination showing up (at the 6th Seal), then there is great tribulation (at Trumpets 1-4, and the 5 months of the 5th Trumpet is the temporary stoppage of the great tribulation that has just begun/ the locusts do not kill anyone.)
              21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand. 26So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.


              29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

              That verse, Matt 24:29, has a double meaning:
              - immediately after the great tribulation of Trumpets 1-4, then false christs arise

              - immediately after the great tribulation of the false christ that has deceived people, then 'the stars fall & the powers of heaven are shaken, and then the elect are gathered' (the 2nd time happens at Revelation 12).

              that's why there are 2 gatherings: at the 7th Seal & at the end of the 6th/ start of the 7th Trumpet. They are gathered at the 1st Trumpet & last Trumpet.

              this is the sequence of events:

              start 1335 days, abomination at the 6th Seal, the unholy sacrifices start at Mystery Babylon, #6, the 'one that is'. Rev 17:10

              45 days later, start 1290 days, either the holy sacrifices or the unholy sacrifices are cut off, by the locusts at the day of the Lord (same locusts in Joel 1 that cut off the daily sacrifices as at the 5th Trumpet: these are the 'people of the prince to come'.) Trumpets 1-4, start the 5th Trumpet. This is the fall of Mystery Babylon, #6, the 'one that is'. This is a 'Babylon has fallen, fallen don't take the mark of the beast' event.

              5 months later, 6th Trumpet, the great tribulation starts up again. The false christ that was warned about in Matt 24:23 is showing up right there (#7 head). (July 4, 2021)

              At the end of 1 Hebrew calendar/ Bible year from the abomination, the 42 months of the beast begins (the 2 witnesses start a few days before this, at 24 Kislev. (Nov 27, 2021). Israel breaks the covenant with God (in the middle of the 7 years, the 70th to 77th year of Jerusalem's desolations, by giving the outer court to the Gentiles (led by #7 head). see Ezekiel 44:7

              in admitting foreigners, uncircumcised in heart and flesh, to be in my sanctuary, profaning my temple, when you offer to me my food, the fat and the blood. You have broken my covenant, in addition to all your abominations. ESV

              In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations. KJV

              The Hebrew here is a bit murky, but the idea is conveying 2 things here: Israel breaks the covenant by giving the outer court to the Gentiles (led by #7) & the Gentiles break the covenant.

              In other words, at the start of the 2 witnesses 1260 days, it is Israel that gives the Gentiles the outer court. Israel breaks the covenant with God in the middle of 7 years. Israel makes a 7 year covenant with the Gentiles. Then, #7, the Gentiles, break it at the end of the 2 witnesses 1260 days.

              Then we start the 7th Trumpet with #7 breaking the covenant.





              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 6paths View Post



                All 6 of these stories end with throne of God with an earthquake and/or the coming of Jesus.
                What other stories end with the throne of God and/or the coming of Jesus?
                I am unclear if these 6 ended in one of these two ways. Can you post the actual passages in full and highlight each ending so I can review it?




                I grant you that this "75 days" thing has little support as it is only found in 1 passage.
                However, the stories make it clear that the time of great tribulation is separate from the time of God's wrath.
                They also make it clear that Jesus will not return right at the end of the 70th week; but his return will be near the end of the period of God's wrath, during the 7th vial.
                I can't agree. He returns at the 7th trump, immediately as it sounds. The vials pour after that.

                Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
                Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
                Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
                Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
                Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
                Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
                Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
                Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
                Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
                Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

                Here we see Christ having returned before the wrath of God has been poured out on those that took the mark.

                Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
                Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

                The vials are the wrath of God that is poured out on those who took the mark.

                This proves Jesus returns before any vials are poured.

                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 6paths View Post

                  Thank you for picking something.

                  Matthew provides signs in the sun, moon, and stars; that immediately follow the period of great tribulation.
                  These same signs appear after the great earthquake of Rev 6:12.

                  Matt 24:29 "[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
                  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

                  Rev 6:"
                  12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

                  13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."
                  Brother 6 Paths, think a little here, start analyzing these texts in a deeper manner, if you do you will see this can't mean what you assume. Jesus had a few thins here he was answering, when would these thins be {Temples Destruction}. what would be THE SIGN of his coming AND what would be the END of the Age. The SIGN of his coming is what verses 29-31 is about. This seems to push you guys to thinking all of the 6th Seal Earthquakes, the 6th Trump Earthquake and the 7th Vial Earthquakes are one and the same. So you think since it states IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days it means the 6th Seal is Jesus showing up, now let me show why that's not the case and why you are misconstruing the verses here. The Black is the point Jesus was making, the RED Describes the TRIBULATION PERIOD Jesus is speaking of. No one wrote these things verbatim in real time !! So hes giving you a synopsis of his memories.

                  Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

                  So what you are seeing is a sentence with a Parenthetical Citation in the middle of it {THE RED PORTION} Read only the black portion of the verses and you get what Jesus is saying, read the Red portion as it was meant by the writer, and effort to DESCRIBE the Tribulation period Jesus was speaking about.

                  So Immediately AFTER the Tribulation period {WHICH LASTS 3.5 YEARS.........and Jesus points out via the Joel ch. 2 mention} THEN............Only THEN will people living during that time see Jesus coming from the eastern Skies !!

                  You seem instead of assuming this all happens at the 6th Seal, which makes no sense, you have to understand the old writing styles, you have to understand these were not verses written in real time per se but the memories of Matthew, Luke, John and Mark. What hes e=really pointing out here is what hes talking about.........Hes saying Immediately after the Tribulation {You know, the Joel ch. 2 Sun and Moon going dark, and the Stars {really Satan} falling to earth} THEN !!!! Shall you see Jesus' Second Coming !!


                  So everything past this point in your thinking veers off line. There are a 1000 reasons why this can't be true, but you have picked one point out and you don't understand its a Parenthetical type Citation, and you run with it, and that makes the other Seal already being opened sound feasible.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post



                    Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

                    So what you are seeing is a sentence with a Parenthetical Citation in the middle of it {THE RED PORTION} Read only the black portion of the verses and you get what Jesus is saying, read the Red portion as it was meant by the writer, and effort to DESCRIBE the Tribulation period Jesus was speaking about.

                    There is no Parenthetical Citation there. Those things happen immediately after the GT ends just as it plainly states.
                    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post


                      There is no Parenthetical Citation there. Those things happen immediately after the GT ends just as it plainly states.
                      You are all over the place on everything, what can I say.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post

                        You are all over the place on everything, what can I say.
                        That's a weak type of response but I guess I don't mind it much. There is no Parenthetical Citation where you say one is...it's obvious that none is there.
                        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by blur1 View Post

                          The thing that is hard to convey about Matt 24 is exactly that passage you quote, verse 29

                          Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

                          Immediately after the abomination showing up (at the 6th Seal), then there is great tribulation (at Trumpets 1-4, and the 5 months of the 5th Trumpet is the temporary stoppage of the great tribulation that has just begun/ the locusts do not kill anyone.)
                          21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand. 26So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.


                          29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

                          That verse, Matt 24:29, has a double meaning:
                          - immediately after the great tribulation of Trumpets 1-4, then false christs arise

                          - immediately after the great tribulation of the false christ that has deceived people, then 'the stars fall & the powers of heaven are shaken, and then the elect are gathered' (the 2nd time happens at Revelation 12).


                          Are you equating "the stars fall & the powers of heaven are shaken" of Matt 24 and Rev 6 to Rev 12:9?

                          If so, how is it that the final antichrist (#8) has yet to come to power for the 42 month period of the great tribulation?

                          I don't understand why you think trumpets 1-4 are part of the great tribulation.

                          I don't see anywhere where the great tribulation is said to stop and then restart.

                          I also don't understand your 2 gatherings below.

                          Originally posted by blur1 View Post
                          that's why there are 2 gatherings: at the 7th Seal & at the end of the 6th/ start of the 7th Trumpet. They are gathered at the 1st Trumpet & last Trumpet.

                          this is the sequence of events:

                          start 1335 days, abomination at the 6th Seal, the unholy sacrifices start at Mystery Babylon, #6, the 'one that is'. Rev 17:10

                          45 days later, start 1290 days, either the holy sacrifices or the unholy sacrifices are cut off, by the locusts at the day of the Lord (same locusts in Joel 1 that cut off the daily sacrifices as at the 5th Trumpet: these are the 'people of the prince to come'.) Trumpets 1-4, start the 5th Trumpet. This is the fall of Mystery Babylon, #6, the 'one that is'. This is a 'Babylon has fallen, fallen don't take the mark of the beast' event.

                          5 months later, 6th Trumpet, the great tribulation starts up again. The false christ that was warned about in Matt 24:23 is showing up right there (#7 head). (July 4, 2021)

                          At the end of 1 Hebrew calendar/ Bible year from the abomination, the 42 months of the beast begins (the 2 witnesses start a few days before this, at 24 Kislev. (Nov 27, 2021). Israel breaks the covenant with God (in the middle of the 7 years, the 70th to 77th year of Jerusalem's desolations, by giving the outer court to the Gentiles (led by #7 head). see Ezekiel 44:7

                          in admitting foreigners, uncircumcised in heart and flesh, to be in my sanctuary, profaning my temple, when you offer to me my food, the fat and the blood. You have broken my covenant, in addition to all your abominations. ESV

                          In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations. KJV

                          The Hebrew here is a bit murky, but the idea is conveying 2 things here: Israel breaks the covenant by giving the outer court to the Gentiles (led by #7) & the Gentiles break the covenant.

                          In other words, at the start of the 2 witnesses 1260 days, it is Israel that gives the Gentiles the outer court. Israel breaks the covenant with God in the middle of 7 years. Israel makes a 7 year covenant with the Gentiles. Then, #7, the Gentiles, break it at the end of the 2 witnesses 1260 days.

                          Then we start the 7th Trumpet with #7 breaking the covenant.




                          Mystery Babylon #6 was Rome, the one "that is," is the one that existed at the time John wrote the Revelation.
                          Mystery Babylon #7 will likely again be Rome.
                          Mystery Babylon #8 will likely be one of the previous 7 capitals that ruled over all of Israel, the capital of Seleucia in my opinion.
                          #8 will destroy #7 as found in Rev 17:16, leading to the 42 month reign of Rev 13, the complete time of the great tribulation period.
                          It is #8 that is fallen in both Rev 14 and Rev 18.
                          It is fallen in that it has become the "habitation of devils" in Rev 18:2.
                          It makes all nations do what it has done in Rev 18:3.
                          What does it do? It kills Christians. Rev 13:7, 18:24.
                          As a result, God will squash these killers as grapes, putting them in his winepress. Rev 14:19, 19:15.
                          All of these comparisons follow the same sequence of events, do they in your scenario?
                          I don't understand your scenario enough to say.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                            I am unclear if these 6 ended in one of these two ways. Can you post the actual passages in full and highlight each ending so I can review it?

                            Rev 4:5 "
                            And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices"
                            This passage shows that the throne of God the Father is symbolized by lightnings and thunderings and voices.
                            When this throne moves from heaven to earth, there is an earthquake.

                            Story 1 ends with the earthquake, then both the Father and the Son. Rev 6:14, 16-17
                            "...every mountain and island were moved out of their places."
                            "
                            16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
                            17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

                            Story 2 ends with just the Father and the earthquake. Rev 8:5
                            "And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."

                            Story 3 ends with the Father, the earthquake and the Son, hail. Rev 11:19
                            "And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

                            Story 4 ends with the Son, the winepress. Rev 14:14,20.
                            "
                            14
                            And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle."
                            "20
                            And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs."

                            Story 5 ends with the Father, the earthquake, and the Son, winepress, hail. This is the most descriptive ending of the 6 stories. Rev 16:18-21.
                            "18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
                            19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
                            20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
                            21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

                            Story 6 ends with the Son, winepress, sword, Rev 19:15,21.
                            "15
                            And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."
                            "
                            21
                            And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."








                            I can't agree. He returns at the 7th trump, immediately as it sounds. The vials pour after that.

                            Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
                            Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
                            Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
                            Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
                            Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
                            Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
                            Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
                            Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
                            Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
                            Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                            Here we see Christ having returned before the wrath of God has been poured out on those that took the mark.

                            Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
                            Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

                            The vials are the wrath of God that is poured out on those who took the mark.

                            This proves Jesus returns before any vials are poured.
                            I agree that the vials are the wrath of God that is poured out on those who took the mark.
                            In story 1, Jesus pours out God's wrath on the great day, which is the last day of God's wrath, which would be during the 7th vial.

                            In story 2, God is seen after the 144,000 are sealed, after the great tribulation has ended, and after the silence in heaven.

                            In story 3, God and Jesus are seen after the great tribulation, after the 2 witnesses arise, after the start of the 7th trumpet, and after the "kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ..."

                            In story 4, Jesus is seen after the great tribulation, first with the 144,000, after Babylon has fallen, to gather his people, then the winepress is seen.

                            In story 5, the most complete story, God and Jesus are seen with the last vial, the earthquake, the winepress and hail.

                            In story 6, Jesus is seen after Babylon has fallen, treading the winepress.

                            In all of these chronological stories, God and/or Jesus are seen with the same descriptions found in the 7th vial.

                            This proves Jesus returns when the 7th and last vial is poured out.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post

                              Brother 6 Paths, think a little here, start analyzing these texts in a deeper manner, if you do you will see this can't mean what you assume. Jesus had a few thins here he was answering, when would these thins be {Temples Destruction}. what would be THE SIGN of his coming AND what would be the END of the Age. The SIGN of his coming is what verses 29-31 is about. This seems to push you guys to thinking all of the 6th Seal Earthquakes, the 6th Trump Earthquake and the 7th Vial Earthquakes are one and the same. So you think since it states IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days it means the 6th Seal is Jesus showing up, now let me show why that's not the case and why you are misconstruing the verses here. The Black is the point Jesus was making, the RED Describes the TRIBULATION PERIOD Jesus is speaking of. No one wrote these things verbatim in real time !! So hes giving you a synopsis of his memories.

                              Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

                              So what you are seeing is a sentence with a Parenthetical Citation in the middle of it {THE RED PORTION} Read only the black portion of the verses and you get what Jesus is saying, read the Red portion as it was meant by the writer, and effort to DESCRIBE the Tribulation period Jesus was speaking about.


                              Mark and Luke seem to agree with Matthew and disagree with you.

                              Mark 13
                              24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
                              25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

                              Luke 21
                              24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
                              25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

                              Do you find a parenthetical in Mark. To me, Mark is very specific about the fact that the great tribulation will end and then the signs in the sun, moon, and stars will appear.

                              In Luke, these sun, moon, and star signs occur after the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
                              The times of the Gentiles started when Babylon took control of Jerusalem and they have continued until this day with Jordan having control over the temple mount.
                              The end of the times of the Gentiles is found in Rev 11:2, which is the last half of Daniel's 70th week.
                              "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."
                              The times of the Gentiles, these 42 months, and the great tribulation all end when the 2 witnesses rise into heaven.
                              Then, the kingdoms of the Gentiles become the kingdoms of our Lord as stated in Rev 11:15.


                              Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
                              So Immediately AFTER the Tribulation period {WHICH LASTS 3.5 YEARS.........and Jesus points out via the Joel ch. 2 mention} THEN............Only THEN will people living during that time see Jesus coming from the eastern Skies !!


                              This is correct.
                              There will be 42 months of great tribulation, which is followed by a period for God's wrath.
                              At the end of God's wrath, Jesus will return.

                              Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
                              You seem instead of assuming this all happens at the 6th Seal, which makes no sense, you have to understand the old writing styles, you have to understand these were not verses written in real time per se but the memories of Matthew, Luke, John and Mark. What hes e=really pointing out here is what hes talking about.........Hes saying Immediately after the Tribulation {You know, the Joel ch. 2 Sun and Moon going dark, and the Stars {really Satan} falling to earth} THEN !!!! Shall you see Jesus' Second Coming !!


                              Satan and his angels are pictured as losing a war in heaven and being cast to earth in Rev 12:9.
                              After this, there is woe on earth.

                              This heavenly occurrence was accompanied by earthly happenings described in the 3rd and 4th trumpets.
                              After this, there is woe on earth.

                              In my opinion, the great tribulation does not start until the 6th trumpet has sounded, the 2nd woe.
                              It is during the 6th trumpet that the 42 month tribulation, the times of the Gentile rule over Jerusalem at a time when Israelites are in their land, come to an end.

                              After all of these things, Rev 11:19 picture the symbol of the throne of God from Rev 4:5, that is lightnings, and voices, and thunderings. The earthquake occurs whenever the throne of God is on earth as shown in Rev 6:14-16, Rev 8:5, and Rev 16:18. How many times does the throne of God cause an earthquake in your scenario?

                              Hail in 11:19 is a sign of Jesus' return. Hail comes on the last or great day of God's wrath in Rev 6:17, hail is used as a winepress to squash the blood of God's enemies after Jesus has gathered those who belong to him as found in Rev 14:14-20. This same hail is found as the winepress in Rev 16:18-21. The winepress is also mentioned in connection to the return of Jesus in Rev 19:11-21.

                              Isn't the style of the prophets to repeat things like the story of creation, the 4 gospels, the 6 stories of Revelation.
                              Isn't the style of the prophets to begin to prophesy about things that would take place in the prophet's lifetime and then the future?

                              Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
                              So everything past this point in your thinking veers off line. There are a 1000 reasons why this can't be true, but you have picked one point out and you don't understand its a Parenthetical type Citation, and you run with it, and that makes the other Seal already being opened sound feasible.
                              I know I have veered from your understanding, but until you are able to show how I have veered from the Bible, I'll stick with what I have found.

                              Comment

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