Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

6 Paths Revelation Chart

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    [QUOTE=6paths;n2706576]
    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post

    No they don't, AFTER the Tribulation means after it starts and then ends. The Day of the Lord is a 3.5 year period of time, the Sun and Moon sixth seal even happens on day 1261 out of 2520 days. So after the Sun and Moon goes Dark THEN Jesus will return, its a sign. Its being used by Jesus as a Marker.

    Number 1, you have to be able to read the bible as a WHOLE PUZZLE.....ITS SAYS SO.....Here a little, there a little, you have to put it together via the Holy Spirit. We do not have the Greek and Hebrew version, we have the English translations which are far from perfect. Then it was written in Olde English and many of you guys have a problem understanding the texts. Everything is designed around DAY 1260 {really day 1261....but Daniel is told about the 1260 because there will be 1260 DAYS until ALL THESE WONDERS END....Or the Second Advent of Jesus}. I look to Matthew I don't go around shopping other Gospels hoping its a smidge different. The times of the Gentiles is not about the Gentile Kings, its about the Gentiles being given the mantle to take the Gospel unto all the world, during that time {Church Age} the Jews were seen as Dead Men's Bones by God Himself, they He dispersed them the world over and THE TIME of the Gentile ENDS with the Rapture, then the Jews have the Mantle back, they are then once again God's Chosen people on earth, God BREATHES LIFE back into those bones once again, see Zechariah 12:10. The Rev. 11:1-3 event is not what you think, that is the INSTRUCTIONS to John as per who the Two-witnesses are going to be preaching to, THE JEWS ONLY......Not the Gentiles who are without, John MEASURES the Temple, and sees the Two-witnesses are taking Measure of only the Jews. The Jews are in control of Jerusalem now, so the Gentiles do not overrun Jerusalem as we speak, hence we are about ready for the Rapture. Its the only time the Rapture can happen, between 1948 {really 1967} and when the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem.

    NOTICE....The Holy City shall be tread UNDER FOOT for 42 Months, telling us its not been UNDER FOOT for 2000 years as you assume, its TWO SEPARATE EVENTS. The time of the Gentiles leads to the Rapture, the 42 Month period ONLY LASTS 42 Months its an END TIME EVENT.....This proves they cant be the same event !!





    Dan 9:24 "...
    to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness..."
    Christians already believe these things. At the end of the 70 weeks, Israel will believe these things, same as Christians, but that doesn't mean that Jesus will return on that date.
    What is does mean is that some miracle will have to take place that will change the hearts and minds of the people of Israel.
    That miracle is found in Rev 11:11-13.
    "and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."
    Notice how at the end of the 1,260 days, the people did not see Jesus, yet they believed in him, fulfilling the 70 weeks vision.




    When Satan is cast from heaven, there is woe on earth as a result.
    This time of woe is not necessarily 1260 days.

    If you compare trumpets 1-4 and the woe of Rev 8:13 with Rev 12:7-12, there are parallels between the physical activity on earth and the spiritual activity in heaven.

    Trumpet 1 - world war II, corresponds with war in heaven. Rev 12:7 "And there was war in heaven"
    Trumpet 2 - fall of Berlin/Hitler, corresponds with defeat of Satan and no place for him. Rev 12:8 "neither was there place found any more in heaven"
    Trumpet 3 - Chernobyl, corresponds with fall of Satan from heaven to earth. Rev 12:9 "and the great dragon was cast out"
    Trumpet 4 - Nuclear fallout from Chernobyl. Rev 12:9 "and his angels were cast out with him"

    Woe - found in the 3 remaining trumpets because Satan is on earth.

    [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica]

    If Jesus had not opened the seals, we still would not know what was in them!
    This is a picture of Jesus receiving knowledge that he did not have while he was on earth and then giving it to John, who then gave it to us.
    1...You didn't answer the top point....the 2000 year period can't be the time of the Gentiles spoken of as being 42 months.

    2...Israel is NO DIFFERENT from us, thats what it means by Jews and the Greeks/Gentiles are one and the same, it means that we are not under the Law AND we must both come to Christ by Faith alone. The Jews aren't just going to be rescued, they are redeemed like everyone else, by Faith alone, it was accounted unto Abraham as Righteousness because he BELIEVED God. So they don't come to God after the 70th week, the Jews come to God via the Preaching of the Two-witnesses. That is the 1335 Blessing.

    3....The Rev. 12 casting down of Satan has nothing to do with God's Three Woes, they are God's Woes. The Woes will be opened after the Seals, and none have been opened and they have ZERO to do with Matt. 24, save verses 15-31. The Sorrows is not about the 70th week.

    4....We know whats in the Seals because Jesus told us, just like all Prophesies are God telling us future events.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by CadyandZoe View Post

      I think your chart is understandable, but it could use a little bit of work. What I am about to say is not intended to be critical, only helpful. I like how you put labels across the top. That is good. I would also put labels on the left-hand side, indicating what each row represents. If rows 5 and 6 are unique, you should fill in the blank cells with information. Otherwise it's pretty good. Charts are very helpful, especially for people like me who are graphically oriented.

      Thanks for your hard work.
      Here is the new and improved model.
      [IMG]file:///C:/Users/wewad/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.png[/IMG]Timeline >

      Story Number
      Before Daniel’s 70th week First 3.5 years 3.5 years great tribulation 75 days of God’s wrath
      Story 1

      Rev 6:1-6:17
      Seals 1-4. Death is limited to of the earth until a new world empire emerges. Seal 5 - Martyrs Seal 5 - Martyrs Seal 5 - Martyrs
      Seal 6 – Earthquake of Rev 6:12 is last event of the great tribulation
      Seal 5 - Martyrs
      Seal 6 – Everything after the Rev 6:12 earthquake. Ends with the Father & Son.
      Story 2

      Rev 7:1-8:5
      Rev 7:1-8. 144,000 Israelites become Christian Nothing occurs during this time in this story. Rev 7:9-7:17. Spirits of Christians are in heaven. Seal 7. Silence when 2 witnesses of Rev 11 rise into heaven as sign of Son of man. Ends with the Father.
      Story 3

      Rev 8:6-11:19
      Trump 1- WWII
      Trump 2- Axis defeated
      Trump 3 – Chernobyl
      Trump 4 – Chernobyl nuclear cloud
      Trump 5 – Helicopters with non-lethal gas under authority of antichrist (AC)
      Trump 6 – Army of AC at Euphrates
      Trump 6- Army of AC at Jerusalem. 7 thunders. Jewish Temple completed, but sacrifice stops.
      2 witnesses prophesy.
      Trump 7 – Ends with the Father (Lightnings, thunders, voices, earthquake) and the Son. (Hail)
      Story 4

      Rev 12:7-14:20
      At Trumps 1 – War in heaven. 2 -Satan defeated. 3,4 – Satan on earth with his angels. At Trump 5 – Satan first persecutes Israel for 5 months. Using army of Trump 6, Satan kills Christians & controls economy. 144,000 are the 2 witnesses of Rev 11, seen in heaven. Ends with Son. (Winepress is hail.)
      Story 5

      Rev 15:5-16:21
      Nothing occurs during this time in this story. Nothing occurs during this time in this story. Nothing occurs during this time in this story. All 7 vials. Ends with Father (Lightnings, thunders, voices, earthquake) & Son. (Hail)
      Story 6

      Rev 18:1-19:21
      Nothing occurs during this time in this story. Nothing occurs during this time in this story. Nothing occurs during this time in this story. God takes control. Ends with Son. (Winepress)
      Row 1: Rev 6:1-6:17. Four consecutive conquerors had 100% authority to put people to death before Jesus conquered. The sun, moon, star event of Matt 24:29 confirms the earthquake of Rev 6:12 is the last sign of the great tribulation. Unbelievers acknowledge the Father and the Son because of their presence. Jesus’ coming would be as a thief (unknown) if he had not already come. The Father will come as he did on Mt. Sinai during the Exodus.
      Row 2: Rev 7:1-8:5. A new world empire can not be “blown in” until the 144,000 are sealed. Lightnings, thunders, and voices signal the throne of God from Rev 4:5. God’s throne is on earth when an earthquake is added.
      Row 3: Rev 8:6-11:19. When AC marches his army from the Euphrates River to Jerusalem, the Great Tribulation begins. A remnant of Jews will flee and innumerable Christians will be killed. 2 candlesticks are 2 churches Rev 1:20
      Row 4: Rev 12:7-14:20. Heavenly war coincides with war on earth. The 144,000 are firstfruits or the first people to be resurrected and then rise into heaven as did Jesus. They rose from earth as the 2 witness in Rev 11.
      Row 5: Rev 15:5-16:21. All of these signs occur during God’s period of wrath. Chronologically, Jesus will not come until after 6 vials have been poured out because he is still coming as a thief to unbelievers. Hail is what Jesus will use on the great day of his wrath Rev 6:17, in Rev 11:19, as the great winepress, squashing blood from men in Rev 14:20, Rev 16:21, and is the sword of Jesus in Rev 19:21.
      Row 6: Rev 18:1-19:21. Satan’s great city has fallen, but Satan still brings the world’s armies to Armageddon for the great slaughter or winepress. This story has parallels in Rev 14.


      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by blur1 View Post




        No, I don't think the Trumpets have blown. I think we should use the Bible to interpret the Bible. Especially when the Bible explains what the metaphor means. In the case of Wormwood, it isn't talking about radiation, it talking about the 'bitter water ritual' of Numbers 5 https://biblehub.com/numbers/5.htm. It is a spiritual test of faithfulness, not an indicator of radiation. It is in reference to the abomination which is causing people to go into apostasy. The 'woe upon the children & pregnant' is a direct reference to this 'bitter water ritual'. The locusts/ people of the prince to come have 'cut off the sacrifices'.

        The Trumpets are the Levitical 7x punishment upon Israel for the abomination and its worship. After the abomination idol is offered to the public, then Mystery Babylon is punished for going along with it. The faithful are not part of the group receiving God's wrath. (They 'came out of Babylon' (Rev 18:4), they weren't whisked away.)

        It is a spiritual gathering in Rev 7, just as you put it.


        Admittedly, I have little in the way of Biblical support for my view on Wormwood. When Daniel says in 12:4 that "knowledge shall be increased," I take that to mean that no one prior to the age of the internet would have known that Wormwood was Chernobyl.

        I like what you wrote about the bitter water ritual, but I don't see how that relates to the flight of the Jews, especially those who are pregnant or nursing. It seems to be straight forward that it will be hard to run from the just revealed enemy, and the persecution to come, especially if you are carrying a child.

        To me, the trumpets are warnings that Jesus is coming.

        I believe that the abomination idol is a place for sacrifice to the AC built right on top of the place of Jewish sacrifice, the Holy Place.

        I thought we both believed that Mystery Babylon was going to be the capital city of the AC and his 10 nations.
        This is the city that will cause other cities to worship AC or be killed.
        This city will come into power at the same time as the abomination idol is offered to the public (set up in the holy place).

        In Rev 18:2, this city is fallen. That is, this evil world capital no longer has the authority it gained 3.5 years earlier.
        I believe it loses its authority when the 2 witnesses arise from the dead and ascend into heaven.
        This is the last wake up call to flee from the authority of this city.
        I agree that this is not a whisking away.
        This is the time of God's wrath, the time immediately after the period of great tribulation.
        It is the time that God will punish his enemies.

        Rev 14:8 seems to confirm the timing above of Babylon's fall and the events before and after.
        In Rev 14:1-5, the 144,000/2 witnesses are in heaven immediately after their ascension as firstfruits. That is, they are the first since Jesus to rise from the dead and ascend into heaven.
        Rev 14:6 is the fulfillment of Matt 24:14, and then the end shall come.
        Matt 24:14 is the end of the first of 2 chronological sequences of events.
        Rev 14:14-16 is the rest of the gathering into heaven, both of the living and of the resurrected dead, the whisking away that I do believe in.
        Rev 14:17-20 is the gathering of the tares at Armageddon for the great day (also the last day) of the wrath of God.



        Originally posted by blur1 View Post
        The whole point of Rev 11
        1Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, 2but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. 3And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

        is that the Gentiles are in the holy place. That is why the 2 witnesses are preaching. When the Gentiles are in the holy place, it is only because Israel has let that happen. They have broken the covenant with God. There has not been a 'holy place' in Jerusalem for the past 2000 years. If there was, then there would be people 'witnessing'/ testifying about this.

        At this point, I'd like to point out that Matt 24:15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

        In the context of Daniel 9, there is no 'holy place' until the end of the 70 'shabua' (7) period. Kind of hard to say that the 'antichrist' makes the covenant, then places the abomination in the middle of the 7 years, when the 'holy place' only arrives at the end of 7 years. There can't be an abomination in 'holy place'. That is putting the cart before the horse!

        How can the abomination idol be in the 'holy place' 1260 days before the 'holy place' arrives?

        But now we can understand that Israel breaks the covenant with God at the start of the 2 witnesses 1260 days. The Gentiles start having control of the outer court of the 'temple'/ holy place. The nations/ Gentiles break the covenant at the end of the 2 witnesses 1260 days.
        In Dan 9, AC will confirm the covenant with many at the start of the last 7 years before Jews accept Jesus as a nation.
        AC will not have gained full authority until half way through these 7 last years.
        At the start of the 7 years, Jewish sacrifice will begin. The place for sacrifice will be the 'Holy Place.'
        The building of the Jewish temple will begin adjacent to the place of Muslim worship.
        In the middle of the 7 years, the Jewish temple will be complete, Jewish sacrifice will be stopped and the abomination of desolation will be set up.
        That is, the altar of sacrifice by Jews will become the altar of sacrifice to AC.
        Israel will flee at this time. I am not sure if the 2 witnesses/144,000 lead this flight or not.
        At the end of the 7 years, the 2 witnesses/144,000 will be in Jerusalem and will be killed by AC.
        When the 2 witnesses/144,000 arise from the dead and ascend into heaven (the sign of the son of man), Israel as a nation will accept Jesus, fulfilling Dan 9:24.


        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

          I see him appearing at the sound of the 7th trump, before any vials are poured. I think he is in the sky and on Mt Zion until the 6th vial then he goes to Armageddon to fight there.




          Because Christ appears before the first vial is poured, and the 7th vial is the completion of the wrath of that day matching events like eq's and lightnings which tie the 7th vial and the 6th seal events together. Also I see the vials as plagues that Babylon suffers which also happens in one day.


          Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

          Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

          The vials are called plagues.

          I do believe Babylon will be destroyed in 1 day.
          Babylon is the great city or capital city of the AC.

          How do you explain the people in heaven in Rev 19:1 after Babylon has been destroyed in Rev 18?
          Wouldn't they have come to earth with Jesus?
          Jesus doesn't come in this story until Rev 19:11.

          Rev 18:18 "
          And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!"

          Rev 19:1 "And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:"

          Rev 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."


          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
          I don't see the Father leaving heaven until the GWTJ because he is still in heaven before that which is long after the vials.

          I can't tell you when the Father goes back into heaven, but Jesus and the people who belong to Jesus are also in heaven with the Father in Rev 21.

          Rev 21:23 "
          And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."

          Rev 21:27 "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."



          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
          It's the first and last day of his wrath...he is seen before any vials are poured.

          God's 1 day of wrath.
          1 A sore comes on anyone with the mark of the beast.
          2 The sea becomes as the blood of a dead man.
          3 The rivers become blood.
          4 Men are scorched with fire from the sun. They don't repent, perhaps because they are not given time?
          5 Darkness covers Mystery Babylon.
          6 The Euphrates River is dried up after becoming blood in vial 3.
          Foul spirits go forth to the kings of the earth.
          The kings of the earth gather at Armageddon.
          7 The great earthquake that removes mountains and islands
          Hail, the winepress of God.

          To me, this is just too much for 1 day.


          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
          That is not chronological. It is an "aside" which is a statement outside of the chronology of events being discussed. He does this many times in Rev.


          We have already discussed this point.




          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
          Yeah, I don't think any of that is the Father. He is still in heaven instead of the Earth here:

          Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

          Even the GWTJ is not held on Earth so the Father isn't on Earth until the eternity.

          Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

          Not held in heaven or in the Earth.

          Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
          Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

          And here is the time when the Father will finally dwell with man on the Earth.

          I have already commented that Jesus and his people will also be in heaven with the Father after the millennium.

          I believe this is talking about a new Genesis when the Father will finally dwell with man on the Earth.
          A new heaven, a new earth, a new man; just as it was in the beginning.

          Comment


          • #35
            [QUOTE=Revelation Man;n2706791]
            Originally posted by 6paths View Post

            1...You didn't answer the top point....the 2000 year period can't be the time of the Gentiles spoken of as being 42 months.

            2...Israel is NO DIFFERENT from us, thats what it means by Jews and the Greeks/Gentiles are one and the same, it means that we are not under the Law AND we must both come to Christ by Faith alone. The Jews aren't just going to be rescued, they are redeemed like everyone else, by Faith alone, it was accounted unto Abraham as Righteousness because he BELIEVED God. So they don't come to God after the 70th week, the Jews come to God via the Preaching of the Two-witnesses. That is the 1335 Blessing.

            3....The Rev. 12 casting down of Satan has nothing to do with God's Three Woes, they are God's Woes. The Woes will be opened after the Seals, and none have been opened and they have ZERO to do with Matt. 24, save verses 15-31. The Sorrows is not about the 70th week.

            4....We know whats in the Seals because Jesus told us, just like all Prophesies are God telling us future events.
            1...The 42 months is the last 42 months of the period of time that began when King Nebuchadnezzar took Jerusalem.
            Jerusalem has been trampled by (at least partially governed by) Gentiles since that time.

            2....Believing Israel is NO DIFFERENT from us.
            Romans 11:25-26
            "25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
            26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"

            Only after God has saved everyone he plans for salvation from the Gentiles, will he pour out his Spirit on Israel as a nation.

            3...Please explain Rev 12:12. "
            Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
            Woe comes to the earth precisely because Satan has been cast down.

            4...Jesus had to open the seals, that is, he had to receive again to himself all knowledge, once he ascended into heaven.
            Jesus gave us the knowledge of the seals and all of the Revelation through John.

            This is the opposite of what happened with Daniel, where his prophecies were to be shut up and sealed.
            Although Daniel was given the vision, he was not given the understanding of the vision, and neither were many generations after Daniel.

            In one case the seals are open and in the other they were closed for a long time.
            To say that the seals of Revelation are closed just doesn't make sense to me.
            When God gives us understanding about future events, the vision is not sealed.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by 6paths View Post

              Admittedly, I have little in the way of Biblical support for my view on Wormwood. When Daniel says in 12:4 that "knowledge shall be increased," I take that to mean that no one prior to the age of the internet would have known that Wormwood was Chernobyl.

              I like what you wrote about the bitter water ritual, but I don't see how that relates to the flight of the Jews, especially those who are pregnant or nursing. It seems to be straight forward that it will be hard to run from the just revealed enemy, and the persecution to come, especially if you are carrying a child.

              To me, the trumpets are warnings that Jesus is coming.

              I believe that the abomination idol is a place for sacrifice to the AC built right on top of the place of Jewish sacrifice, the Holy Place.

              I thought we both believed that Mystery Babylon was going to be the capital city of the AC and his 10 nations.
              This is the city that will cause other cities to worship AC or be killed.
              This city will come into power at the same time as the abomination idol is offered to the public (set up in the holy place).

              In Rev 18:2, this city is fallen. That is, this evil world capital no longer has the authority it gained 3.5 years earlier.
              I believe it loses its authority when the 2 witnesses arise from the dead and ascend into heaven.
              This is the last wake up call to flee from the authority of this city.
              I agree that this is not a whisking away.
              This is the time of God's wrath, the time immediately after the period of great tribulation.
              It is the time that God will punish his enemies.

              Rev 14:8 seems to confirm the timing above of Babylon's fall and the events before and after.
              In Rev 14:1-5, the 144,000/2 witnesses are in heaven immediately after their ascension as firstfruits. That is, they are the first since Jesus to rise from the dead and ascend into heaven.
              Rev 14:6 is the fulfillment of Matt 24:14, and then the end shall come.
              Matt 24:14 is the end of the first of 2 chronological sequences of events.
              Rev 14:14-16 is the rest of the gathering into heaven, both of the living and of the resurrected dead, the whisking away that I do believe in.
              Rev 14:17-20 is the gathering of the tares at Armageddon for the great day (also the last day) of the wrath of God.[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]



              [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica]

              In Dan 9, AC will confirm the covenant with many at the start of the last 7 years before Jews accept Jesus as a nation.
              AC will not have gained full authority until half way through these 7 last years.
              At the start of the 7 years, Jewish sacrifice will begin. The place for sacrifice will be the 'Holy Place.'
              The building of the Jewish temple will begin adjacent to the place of Muslim worship.
              In the middle of the 7 years, the Jewish temple will be complete, Jewish sacrifice will be stopped and the abomination of desolation will be set up.
              That is, the altar of sacrifice by Jews will become the altar of sacrifice to AC.
              Israel will flee at this time. I am not sure if the 2 witnesses/144,000 lead this flight or not.
              At the end of the 7 years, the 2 witnesses/144,000 will be in Jerusalem and will be killed by AC.
              When the 2 witnesses/144,000 arise from the dead and ascend into heaven (the sign of the son of man), Israel as a nation will accept Jesus, fulfilling Dan 9:24.

              I like what you wrote about the bitter water ritual, but I don't see how that relates to the flight of the Jews, especially those who are pregnant or nursing. It seems to be straight forward that it will be hard to run from the just revealed enemy, and the persecution to come, especially if you are carrying a child.
              Did you read Numbers 5? I wish you had, because this is unfortunately a touchy subject for many Christians...

              In Numbers 5, the priest offers a potion with 'wormwood'/ the 'bitter water' to a woman who is suspected of infidelity by the husband. The husband is jealous and brings her to the priest. The husband does not want to be cuckolded/ raise the child of another man. The priest tells the woman that if she was unfaithful and became pregnant via this infidelity, the unborn child will be aborted (in the ancient world, 'wormwood' root was used as an abortifacient/ chemical that induces spontaneous abortions). The priest explains that if she was not unfaithful, then nothing will happen.

              I hope this unsavory metaphor is a little clearer? God is jealous of his 'wife', who 'plays the whore', is spiritually unfaithful. The 'children' born via this spiritual infidelity will be killed. People who worship the abomination will be killed. That is why there is 'woe upon the pregnant' (the unfaithful spouse & the 'children' of apostasy).

              I thought we both believed that Mystery Babylon was going to be the capital city of the AC and his 10 nations.
              This is the city that will cause other cities to worship AC or be killed.
              This city will come into power at the same time as the abomination idol is offered to the public (set up in the holy place).
              Mystery Babylon is both the capital of the AC & 10 horns & the city destroyed by them. Or rather, the AC destroys Mystery Babylon, so as to look like Jesus returned. Then the AC sets up shop in Mystery Babylon. Are these 2 different places? Probably. Is Rome destroyed by the AC 1st, then sets up shop in Jerusalem? Probably.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by 6paths View Post

                How do you explain the people in heaven in Rev 19:1 after Babylon has been destroyed in Rev 18?
                Wouldn't they have come to earth with Jesus?
                Jesus doesn't come in this story until Rev 19:11.
                I believe the first part of the chapter is a different timeframe than the second half and I believe the first part takes place later in time than the part regarding Armageddon. I see the same thing in Rev 14...John was shown things in chronological order but also shown things in opposite chronology. I believe this was done intentionally so it's harder to understand.


                I can't tell you when the Father goes back into heaven, but Jesus and the people who belong to Jesus are also in heaven with the Father in Rev 21.
                Rev 21 is on the Earth not in heaven. Remember that the city comes from heaven to the Earth and the rest of the chapter speaks of the city and that God and the Lamb are the temple of the city etc.


                Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
                Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

                This would be the first time God leaves heaven IMO and comes with the city so it can be said the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them.



                God's 1 day of wrath.
                1 A sore comes on anyone with the mark of the beast.
                2 The sea becomes as the blood of a dead man.
                3 The rivers become blood.
                4 Men are scorched with fire from the sun. They don't repent, perhaps because they are not given time?
                5 Darkness covers Mystery Babylon.
                6 The Euphrates River is dried up after becoming blood in vial 3.
                Foul spirits go forth to the kings of the earth.
                The kings of the earth gather at Armageddon.
                7 The great earthquake that removes mountains and islands
                Hail, the winepress of God.

                To me, this is just too much for 1 day.

                I think one day is more than enough time but I would say the 6th vial would take some miracles to be accomplished in one day but miracles are mentioned so I that is solved in my mind.

                Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
                Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

                Doesn't this prove that the vials of wrath are poured within one day of wrath? Doesn't this also prove that the one day of wrath begins when people see Christ returning? I would say it's his initial appearance based on the wording in the 6th seal and the OD second coming:

                Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
                Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


                Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
                Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
                Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
                Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
                Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
                Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

                The same events are described regarding the return of Christ.

                the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light = the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood

                And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth = And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth

                and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken = the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together

                hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains = all the tribes of the earth mourn








                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by blur1 View Post



                  Did you read Numbers 5? I wish you had, because this is unfortunately a touchy subject for many Christians...

                  In Numbers 5, the priest offers a potion with 'wormwood'/ the 'bitter water' to a woman who is suspected of infidelity by the husband. The husband is jealous and brings her to the priest. The husband does not want to be cuckolded/ raise the child of another man. The priest tells the woman that if she was unfaithful and became pregnant via this infidelity, the unborn child will be aborted (in the ancient world, 'wormwood' root was used as an abortifacient/ chemical that induces spontaneous abortions). The priest explains that if she was not unfaithful, then nothing will happen.

                  I hope this unsavory metaphor is a little clearer? God is jealous of his 'wife', who 'plays the whore', is spiritually unfaithful. The 'children' born via this spiritual infidelity will be killed. People who worship the abomination will be killed. That is why there is 'woe upon the pregnant' (the unfaithful spouse & the 'children' of apostasy).



                  Mystery Babylon is both the capital of the AC & 10 horns & the city destroyed by them. Or rather, the AC destroys Mystery Babylon, so as to look like Jesus returned. Then the AC sets up shop in Mystery Babylon. Are these 2 different places? Probably. Is Rome destroyed by the AC 1st, then sets up shop in Jerusalem? Probably.
                  I did read Numbers 5. I understand that you are making a connection between God and his jealousy for unfaithful Israel.
                  I just don't see this connection in Matt 24. Matt 24 seems only to be about the practicalities of running away in a hurry.

                  We are still in agreement with Mystery Babylon.
                  I am not sure if it will be Jerusalem after Rome is destroyed or if it will be in the Syria/Iraq region, old Seleucia.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                    I believe the first part of the chapter is a different timeframe than the second half and I believe the first part takes place later in time than the part regarding Armageddon. I see the same thing in Rev 14...John was shown things in chronological order but also shown things in opposite chronology. I believe this was done intentionally so it's harder to understand.


                    Where do you put Rev 14:12-13 in your timeline?

                    "
                    12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
                    13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."

                    For me, there are 6 stories that are in chronological order because they can be verified against each other. This is plenty hard to understand!
                    The 144,000 are the 2 witnesses who have just arrived into heaven after being resurrected from the dead. Rev14:1-5
                    By raising these from the dead into heaven, God has taken his power and begun his reign.
                    Verses 6-7 fulfills Matt 24:14 that the gospel will be preached to all the world before the end comes. (Before God visibly comes)
                    Verses 8-9 indicate that although the 42 month reign of AC is over, he still has followers.
                    Verses 10-11 say that AC followers will be punished by God. (This seems to be more than a 1 day event also.)
                    Verses 12-13 show that people will still be killed for their faith even after the 42 month reign of AC, which would be during the time of God's wrath.
                    Verses 14-16 are the resurrection/rapture at Jesus' return.
                    Verses 17-20 are the end of God's wrath at Armageddon.

                    I know you see this chapter in reverse order, but there seems to be a period of time after the 42 month reign of AC that martyrdom will still be occurring and before all of AC's followers are punished.
                    Do you believe this martyrdom and punishment is also just a 1 day event?



                    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                    Rev 21 is on the Earth not in heaven. Remember that the city comes from heaven to the Earth and the rest of the chapter speaks of the city and that God and the Lamb are the temple of the city etc.


                    Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
                    Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

                    This would be the first time God leaves heaven IMO and comes with the city so it can be said the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them.

                    I think we believe the same on the holy city. New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the new earth.




                    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                    I think one day is more than enough time but I would say the 6th vial would take some miracles to be accomplished in one day but miracles are mentioned so I that is solved in my mind.

                    Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
                    Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

                    Doesn't this prove that the vials of wrath are poured within one day of wrath? Doesn't this also prove that the one day of wrath begins when people see Christ returning? I would say it's his initial appearance based on the wording in the 6th seal and the OD second coming:

                    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
                    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


                    Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
                    Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
                    Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
                    Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
                    Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
                    Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

                    The same events are described regarding the return of Christ.

                    the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light = the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood

                    And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth = And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth

                    and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken = the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together

                    hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains = all the tribes of the earth mourn
                    Where you see both of these sections as 1 day events, I see them both as processes that occur over days.
                    Same beginning and same ending, with other events in between, including the death of Christians and a continuation of people taking the mark of the beast.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 6paths View Post

                      I did read Numbers 5. I understand that you are making a connection between God and his jealousy for unfaithful Israel.
                      I just don't see this connection in Matt 24. Matt 24 seems only to be about the practicalities of running away in a hurry.

                      We are still in agreement with Mystery Babylon.
                      I am not sure if it will be Jerusalem after Rome is destroyed or if it will be in the Syria/Iraq region, old Seleucia.
                      Matt 24
                      15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

                      The abomination causes the great tribulation, the reason that the pregnant receive 'woe' (the administering of the 'bitter water ritual' to the church.)

                      That word 'alas' is the Greek word, 'oaui' which is also translated as 'woe' which relates to the 3 woes/ 'ouai' of the 5th, 6th, 7th Trumpet.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by 6paths View Post

                        Where do you put Rev 14:12-13 in your timeline?

                        "[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
                        13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."


                        Since no Christian will be dying after the fall of Babylon it is speaking of those who die in the Lord prior to the end of the GT and the fall of Babylon.



                        For me, there are 6 stories that are in chronological order because they can be verified against each other. This is plenty hard to understand!
                        The 144,000 are the 2 witnesses who have just arrived into heaven after being resurrected from the dead. Rev14:1-5
                        The 2w are two churches and two prophets so a group of 144k Christians can't make up the entirety of the 2w. Rev 11 only speaks of the death of the two prophets. The fate of the two churches is unknown and scripture never says the 144k are even those two churches or one of them. They might be but it doesn't say that and it never says they die either.

                        Also, the 144k are on an Earthly mountain not in heaven. Heaven has no mountains and Mt Zion specifically was just outside of old Jerusalem anyways.


                        By raising these from the dead into heaven, God has taken his power and begun his reign.
                        He does take the two prophets into heaven but those two people are never placed upon Mt Zion and this all happens before the 7th trump sounds and that is when the physical and literal reign over the kingdoms of the world begins.



                        Verses 12-13 show that people will still be killed for their faith even after the 42 month reign of AC, which would be during the time of God's wrath.
                        Can't agree here. These two verses are known as an "aside", something said outside of whatever context the chapter had been presenting. Once the 42 months end, Christ returns and all Christians dead or alive are immortal and thus cannot die. Only the mortals that followed the beast can still die.

                        Verses 14-16 are the resurrection/rapture at Jesus' return.
                        Verses 17-20 are the end of God's wrath at Armageddon.
                        Right which matches the timeframe in the first part of the chapter with Christ on the Earth which would be just after the time of the rapture.


                        I know you see this chapter in reverse order, but there seems to be a period of time after the 42 month reign of AC that martyrdom will still be occurring and before all of AC's followers are punished.
                        Do you believe this martyrdom and punishment is also just a 1 day event?
                        As I said, there's no killing of the saints after the 42 months. Once the 7th trump sounds there are no mortal saints for the AC to kill.


                        I think we believe the same on the holy city. New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the new earth.
                        Good.




                        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by blur1 View Post

                          Matt 24
                          15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

                          The abomination causes the great tribulation, the reason that the pregnant receive 'woe' (the administering of the 'bitter water ritual' to the church.)

                          That word 'alas' is the Greek word, 'oaui' which is also translated as 'woe' which relates to the 3 woes/ 'ouai' of the 5th, 6th, 7th Trumpet.
                          I agree that the abomination causes the great tribulation.

                          Your explanation here does not seem to support your hypothesis.
                          The administering of the 'bitter water ritual' or 'wormwood' was before the 3 woes, trumpet #3; before the 5th, 6th, 7th woe trumpets.

                          The 5th trumpet/1st woe is not at all directed at the church. Those who are sealed are Christians. Rev 9:4
                          "
                          And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

                          It also seems to me that the initial flight of Matt 24 is exclusively for those in Jerusalem (Jews), although it is true that Satan will quickly turn to fight against the church.

                          It is only after trumpets 3 and 4 have finished that Satan is on earth to bring his woe.
                          I believe Satan uses the army of the 6th trumpet to remove Jewish sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.
                          Thus the great tribulation will not begin until Satan moves this army from the Euphrates River to Jerusalem.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post



                            Since no Christian will be dying after the fall of Babylon it is speaking of those who die in the Lord prior to the end of the GT and the fall of Babylon.





                            The 2w are two churches and two prophets so a group of 144k Christians can't make up the entirety of the 2w. Rev 11 only speaks of the death of the two prophets. The fate of the two churches is unknown and scripture never says the 144k are even those two churches or one of them. They might be but it doesn't say that and it never says they die either.

                            Also, the 144k are on an Earthly mountain not in heaven. Heaven has no mountains and Mt Zion specifically was just outside of old Jerusalem anyways.




                            He does take the two prophets into heaven but those two people are never placed upon Mt Zion and this all happens before the 7th trump sounds and that is when the physical and literal reign over the kingdoms of the world begins.





                            Can't agree here. These two verses are known as an "aside", something said outside of whatever context the chapter had been presenting. Once the 42 months end, Christ returns and all Christians dead or alive are immortal and thus cannot die. Only the mortals that followed the beast can still die.



                            Right which matches the timeframe in the first part of the chapter with Christ on the Earth which would be just after the time of the rapture.




                            As I said, there's no killing of the saints after the 42 months. Once the 7th trump sounds there are no mortal saints for the AC to kill.




                            Good.



                            From my point of view, the Revelation does not contain "asides."

                            For me, it is easier to believe that even Christians will die after the GT, during the period of God's wrath, as stated in Rev 14:12-13.

                            Rev 15:8 says that "no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled."
                            I don't know why this would be stated if Christians did not die during this time.
                            I don't know why this would be stated if God's wrath was only 1 day long.

                            Rev 20:4 seems to confirm that there are 2 different sets of people who are rewarded.
                            Set 1 consists of those who are killed before the GT ends. "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them..."
                            Set 2 consists of those who are killed after the GT ends. "...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;..."
                            Sets 1 and 2 "and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

                            Set 1 already died and their spirits immediately went to heaven. These spirits come with Jesus from heaven.
                            Set 2 died during the 7 vials. Their spirits did not rise into heaven at death because heaven was closed.
                            Both sets have their bodies raised from the grave at the time of the resurrection/rapture.
                            Set 1 will have their resurrected bodies joined to their spirit in the clouds.
                            Set 2 will go up to the clouds with resurrected body and spirit together.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by 6paths View Post

                              From my point of view, the Revelation does not contain "asides."

                              For me, it is easier to believe that even Christians will die after the GT, during the period of God's wrath, as stated in Rev 14:12-13.

                              God's wrath doesn't harm his own saints. Who on the Ark died in God's wrath?


                              Rev 15:8 says that "no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled."
                              I don't know why this would be stated if Christians did not die during this time.
                              I don't know why this would be stated if God's wrath was only 1 day long.
                              These things are unrelated.


                              Rev 20:4 seems to confirm that there are 2 different sets of people who are rewarded.
                              Set 1 consists of those who are killed before the GT ends. "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them..."
                              Not a word about them having died....why would you place these dying in the GT at all?


                              Set 2 consists of those who are killed after the GT ends. "...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;..."
                              They clearly died in the GT because they refused to worship and take the mark.



                              Set 1 already died and their spirits immediately went to heaven. These spirits come with Jesus from heaven.
                              Nothing about set one says they died or that they are even humans.



                              Set 2 died during the 7 vials. Their spirits did not rise into heaven at death because heaven was closed.
                              set 2 died before the vials. Once Christ returns no saved person is mortal and cannot die.




                              James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by 6paths View Post

                                I agree that the abomination causes the great tribulation.

                                Your explanation here does not seem to support your hypothesis.
                                The administering of the 'bitter water ritual' or 'wormwood' was before the 3 woes, trumpet #3; before the 5th, 6th, 7th woe trumpets.

                                The 5th trumpet/1st woe is not at all directed at the church. Those who are sealed are Christians. Rev 9:4
                                "
                                And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

                                It also seems to me that the initial flight of Matt 24 is exclusively for those in Jerusalem (Jews), although it is true that Satan will quickly turn to fight against the church.

                                It is only after trumpets 3 and 4 have finished that Satan is on earth to bring his woe.
                                I believe Satan uses the army of the 6th trumpet to remove Jewish sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.
                                Thus the great tribulation will not begin until Satan moves this army from the Euphrates River to Jerusalem.
                                What do you mean that it doesn't support my hypothesis?

                                Faithful Christians pass the 'bitter water ritual' test (they don't worship the abomination). Unfaithful Christians do not pass the test and are given wrath (the unfaithful wife, Jezebel, gets great tribulation (Rev 2:20-22). What else is there to say?

                                ??

                                The 144,000 are the Jews that flee 'Judea'. Do we agree on this connection?

                                Because 'Judea' has a spiritual meaning also, it means faithful Christians. That is what we find in Rev 7: literal Judea (the faithful 144,000) & spiritual 'Judea' (faithful Christians) flee the worship of the abomination. (Israel seems to be in parallel to the USA, 'Christian Israel'.)

                                I guess I see the problem:
                                Matt 24
                                15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
                                See, Jesus is being deliberately ambiguous. There are 2 things going on here:
                                • women fleeing the abomination (faithful church)
                                • women fleeing the punishment for apostasy/ the punishment for being unfaithful (unfaithful church)
                                The faithful are separated out at the 7th Seal. The Trumpets & Bowls are the 'great tribulation'.

                                The abomination & the punishment thereof are 2 separate things.

                                Pure speculation: In its manifestation at the 1st abomination, (which is really soon!! (Dec 21, 2020)], then 3.5 days later is the 10th of Tevet, which is potentially when Jerusalem receives its punishment (see Ezekiel 24:1-6's 'woe to the unfaithful city on the 10th of Tevet). If the US is Mystery Babylon, then when we look at Ezekiel 4's 'siege of Jerusalem' fits really well (remember that they are fleeing the 'holy place' in Matt 24). If this is why the 'woman' 'goes into the wilderness' from Rev 12, the sequence would be: 390 days (start Nov 2, 2020, US election day, 'in the day of our king' Hosea 7:5), add 390 days for the siege, which is ended by 24 Kislev and the start of the 2 witnesses 1260 days.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X