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“In that day” first century events and Zechariah 11-14 part 2 two Jerusalems

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  • “In that day” first century events and Zechariah 11-14 part 2 two Jerusalems

    If we read zechariah chapters 11-14 we will see a continuing theme of “in that day” meaning the same time period.

    It seams to be the events of the first century. We read of the betrayal and death of Jesus’ the cleansing of sin’ the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the destruction of Jerusalem. All these events happened in the first century.

    But there seams to be a contradiction on one hand on that day we read of the destruction of Jerusalem but then on the other hand on that day we read of the Lord defending Jerusalem and making it safe but how could that be?

    Maybe the answer is in Galatians chapter 4:21-31 where Paul teaches about two Jerusalems one the literal city of Jerusalem and the other the Jerusalem from above the mother of us all. The saints being the children of the Jerusalem from above also makes us the Jerusalem from above which was the Jerusalem that God protected as He called the saints out of the literal city of Jerusalem before it was destroyed.

    This conclusion seams to make sense and explains what happens to both Jerusalems in The book of Zechariah which also were events that happened in the first century.

    https://bibleforums.org/forum/christ...h-11-14-part-3
    Last edited by marty fox; Feb 12th 2020, 05:43 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    If we read zechariah chapters 11-14 we will see a continuing theme of “in that day” meaning the same time period.

    It seams to be the events of the first century. We read of the betrayal and death of Jesus’ the cleansing of sin’ the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the destruction of Jerusalem. All these events happened in the first century.

    But there seams to be a contradiction on one hand on that day we read of the destruction of Jerusalem but then on the other hand on that day we read of the Lord defending Jerusalem and making it safe but how could that be?

    Maybe the answer is in Galatians chapter 4:21-31 where Paul teaches about two Jerusalems one the literal city of Jerusalem and the other the Jerusalem from above the mother of us all. The saints being the children of the Jerusalem from above also makes us the Jerusalem from above which was the Jerusalem that God protected as He called the saints out of the literal city of Jerusalem before it was destroyed.

    This conclusion seams to make sense and explains what happens to both Jerusalems in The book of Zechariah which also were events that happened in the first century.
    I think the thirty pieces of silver being cast to the potter set the time of Chapter 11. The time of Chapter 12 is also set because in it ALL Nations are gathered against Jerusalem. In 70 AD this was not the case.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
      If we read zechariah chapters 11-14 we will see a continuing theme of “in that day” meaning the same time period.

      It seams to be the events of the first century. We read of the betrayal and death of Jesus’ the cleansing of sin’ the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the destruction of Jerusalem. All these events happened in the first century.

      But there seams to be a contradiction on one hand on that day we read of the destruction of Jerusalem but then on the other hand on that day we read of the Lord defending Jerusalem and making it safe but how could that be?

      Maybe the answer is in Galatians chapter 4:21-31 where Paul teaches about two Jerusalems one the literal city of Jerusalem and the other the Jerusalem from above the mother of us all. The saints being the children of the Jerusalem from above also makes us the Jerusalem from above which was the Jerusalem that God protected as He called the saints out of the literal city of Jerusalem before it was destroyed.

      This conclusion seams to make sense and explains what happens to both Jerusalems in The book of Zechariah which also were events that happened in the first century.
      I love the passages below. And I do believe all the chapters ranging from Zech 11 - 14 are all pertaining to the life of Jesus, up to his resurrection. I believe it is all referring to spiritual Jerusalem.

      Compare the (2) verses below; I believe both of these is pertaining to Jesus's defeat over Satan.
      Zechariah 14:3
      "Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle."

      Revelation 12:7
      "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"


      But I love verse 8. This pin points the time as being the shedding of the blood of our Lord. Only his blood can send forth the living waters out of Jerusalem, to the former sea and the hinder sea; cleansing those who died and were found worthy under the Mosaic Law and those living under the New Grace Covenant .
      Zechariah 14:8
      "And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be."

      Verse 9 validates that Jesus went to his throne and sat down on the right side of the Father, when he rose from the dead.
      Zechariah 14:9
      "And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one."

      Zechariah 14
      1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
      2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
      3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
      4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
      5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
      6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
      7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
      8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
      9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Walls View Post

        I think the thirty pieces of silver being cast to the potter set the time of Chapter 11. The time of Chapter 12 is also set because in it ALL Nations are gathered against Jerusalem. In 70 AD this was not the case.
        Rome consumed many nations and Josephus records that Titus' army was made up of many warriors from nations

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TMarcum View Post

          I love the passages below. And I do believe all the chapters ranging from Zech 11 - 14 are all pertaining to the life of Jesus, up to his resurrection. I believe it is all referring to spiritual Jerusalem.

          Compare the (2) verses below; I believe both of these is pertaining to Jesus's defeat over Satan.
          Zechariah 14:3
          "Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle."

          Revelation 12:7
          "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"


          But I love verse 8. This pin points the time as being the shedding of the blood of our Lord. Only his blood can send forth the living waters out of Jerusalem, to the former sea and the hinder sea; cleansing those who died and were found worthy under the Mosaic Law and those living under the New Grace Covenant .
          Zechariah 14:8
          "And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be."

          Verse 9 validates that Jesus went to his throne and sat down on the right side of the Father, when he rose from the dead.
          Zechariah 14:9
          "And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one."

          Zechariah 14
          1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
          2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
          3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
          4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
          5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
          6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
          7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
          8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
          9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
          Amen thanks great post

          The only thing I would change on your post is that the timing extends to the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came as seen in the verse below

          John 7:37-39
          37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.
          38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c]
          39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

          Great insite on verse 8

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by marty fox View Post

            Rome consumed many nations and Josephus records that Titus' army was made up of many warriors from nations
            I must commend you. A one liner which just suggests something is a good argument - without committing oneself. So I will ask you; Did this happen in 70 AD ....


            1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
            2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
            3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
            4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
            5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
            6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
            7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
            8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them."
            (Zechariah 12:1-8)

            .... or will it happen when our Lord touches down on Mount Olives and enters Jerusalem through the East Gate?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Walls View Post

              I must commend you. A one liner which just suggests something is a good argument - without committing oneself. So I will ask you; Did this happen in 70 AD ....


              1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
              2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
              3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
              4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
              5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
              6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
              7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
              8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them."
              (Zechariah 12:1-8)

              .... or will it happen when our Lord touches down on Mount Olives and enters Jerusalem through the East Gate?
              You surprise me with the sarcasm usually you are very pleasant and respectable to debate with but sometimes one liners are all that is needed. Josephus was a Jewish Roman historian who also helped verify that Jesus was a real person even though he was a non believer.

              Yes I believe that this happened just prior to 70AD when the Roman leader Cestius Gallus surrounded the city and for reasons unknown withdrew and was chased down and defeated by the Jews at the battle at Beth Heron. This angered Nero who then sent Vespasian to crush the Jewish revolt.

              But the real miracle of this is that the Jerusalem from above the church heeded Jesus' warning from the Olivit Discourse and fled the city when God opened the window before Rome came back and concurred the city. Thus there is two Jerusalem's the literal city and the church

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                You surprise me with the sarcasm usually you are very pleasant and respectable to debate with but sometimes one liners are all that is needed. Josephus was a Jewish Roman historian who also helped verify that Jesus was a real person even though he was a non believer.

                Yes I believe that this happened just prior to 70AD when the Roman leader Cestius Gallus surrounded the city and for reasons unknown withdrew and was chased down and defeated by the Jews at the battle at Beth Heron. This angered Nero who then sent Vespasian to crush the Jewish revolt.

                But the real miracle of this is that the Jerusalem from above the church heeded Jesus' warning from the Olivit Discourse and fled the city when God opened the window before Rome came back and concurred the city. Thus there is two Jerusalem's the literal city and the church
                O.K. My comments were not meant to be sarcastic, but I can see how they could be misconstrued. My apologies.

                Your point of view concerning Jerusalem cannot be. Our Lord Jesus had given enough indications that Israel was doomed. Their "House" (their Temple) was left to them desolate. The Kingdom was ripped away from them. Israel would not see Him again till He came in glory with angels. Our Lord Jesus had disavowed His family as early as Matthew 12. Israel has rejected Him. They had called Him an emissary of Beelzebub, a sin not to be forgiven in that age nor the next. I seriously doubt that God would send so great a rescue to a damned City as Zechariah 12 shows - especially when, at the close of the this age, the points of the prophecy are to be fulfilled so vividly and accurately.

                Tell me honestly, did Josephus report in detail, and with the accuracy of prophecy, the things of Zechariah 12? Let's just take verse 7. Tell meabout the "glory of the House of David", or how the tents of Judah were saved before the City was. Or what does Josephus say about the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem after 38 years of killing Christians? See the problems?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Walls View Post

                  O.K. My comments were not meant to be sarcastic, but I can see how they could be misconstrued. My apologies.

                  Your point of view concerning Jerusalem cannot be. Our Lord Jesus had given enough indications that Israel was doomed. Their "House" (their Temple) was left to them desolate. The Kingdom was ripped away from them. Israel would not see Him again till He came in glory with angels. Our Lord Jesus had disavowed His family as early as Matthew 12. Israel has rejected Him. They had called Him an emissary of Beelzebub, a sin not to be forgiven in that age nor the next. I seriously doubt that God would send so great a rescue to a damned City as Zechariah 12 shows - especially when, at the close of the this age, the points of the prophecy are to be fulfilled so vividly and accurately.

                  Tell me honestly, did Josephus report in detail, and with the accuracy of prophecy, the things of Zechariah 12? Let's just take verse 7. Tell meabout the "glory of the House of David", or how the tents of Judah were saved before the City was. Or what does Josephus say about the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem after 38 years of killing Christians? See the problems?
                  Apology accepted thank you I’m glad that you didn’t mean it that way my bad sorry


                  I don’t understand what you mean about Jerusalem maybe you misunderstand me God did spare the city for a short time only so that the saints could escape before Rome came and decimated the city this did happen in history. Thus the literal Jerusalem was destroyed and the symbolic Jerusalem from above (the church) was spared.

                  You do misunderstand me Josephus wasn’t a believer but a historian showing what happened in history.

                  You are confusing national Jerusalem with the new Jerusalem which is the church. The literal city of Jerusalem was the safest place for all of the Jews to flee too when the Romans were crushing the Jewish revolt in the surrounding Jewish city’s. Thus the Jews from all of the nations who persecuted the church were trapped in the city when it was destroyed. The church or the glory of Israel were saved.

                  In a nutshell

                  The literal city of Jerusalem was spared for a short time so that the church could flee the city

                  The symbolic Jerusalem the church escaped the literal city of Jerusalem before it’s destruction

                  The literal city of Jerusalem full of none believing and Christian persecuting Jews from all nations were either killed or taken as slaves in 70AD.

                  The Romans who destroyed the city were eventually also judged by God

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                    Apology accepted thank you I’m glad that you didn’t mean it that way my bad sorry


                    I don’t understand what you mean about Jerusalem maybe you misunderstand me God did spare the city for a short time only so that the saints could escape before Rome came and decimated the city this did happen in history. Thus the literal Jerusalem was destroyed and the symbolic Jerusalem from above (the church) was spared.

                    You do misunderstand me Josephus wasn’t a believer but a historian showing what happened in history.

                    You are confusing national Jerusalem with the new Jerusalem which is the church. The literal city of Jerusalem was the safest place for all of the Jews to flee too when the Romans were crushing the Jewish revolt in the surrounding Jewish city’s. Thus the Jews from all of the nations who persecuted the church were trapped in the city when it was destroyed. The church or the glory of Israel were saved.

                    In a nutshell

                    The literal city of Jerusalem was spared for a short time so that the church could flee the city

                    The symbolic Jerusalem the church escaped the literal city of Jerusalem before it’s destruction

                    The literal city of Jerusalem full of none believing and Christian persecuting Jews from all nations were either killed or taken as slaves in 70AD.

                    The Romans who destroyed the city were eventually also judged by God
                    O.K. We've got different views and that's ok. When one considers all the New Testament conflicts that Christians have, I guess a little difference of opinion in Israel's future hurts no-one. God bless.

                    Comment

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