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“In that day” first century events and Zechariah 11-14 part 3

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  • Discussion “In that day” first century events and Zechariah 11-14 part 3

    We’re the events of Zechariah chapter 14 in the first century?

    We first read of Jerusalem being captured and ransacked which we know happened in the year of 70AD

    We also read of Gods people (the saints) fleeing Jerusalem which happened in the year of 66AD before the final Roman siege when the first Roman army withdrew and were defeated at the battle at Beth Heron by the Jews.

    We then read of how the Lord will stand on the mount of olives when it splits so the saints can flee. I believe this to be symbolic of Jesus standing on the mount of olives when He gave the Olivit discourse and warned the saints to flee Jerusalem when they first see the Roman army which they then did when the Roman army withdrew.

    We next read of the living water flowing east and west from Jerusalem. This started on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit started to flow to the world. Jesus told us what the living water was in the verses below

    John 7:37-39
    37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

    Then the Lord will be King of the whole world as the gospel will spread as the church (the Jerusalem from above) will be raised high and secure because Jesus stated that the gates of hell will never overcome the church.

    Its a chapter of transition from the old covenant to the new covenant from the earthly Jerusalem to the new Jerusalem the Jerusalem from above the church

    Part 4 still to come

    https://bibleforums.org/forum/christ...h-11-14-part-4
    Last edited by marty fox; Feb 18th 2020, 04:25 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    We’re the events of Zechariah chapter 14 in the first century?

    We first read of Jerusalem being captured and ransacked which we know happened in the year of 70AD

    We also read of Gods people (the saints) fleeing Jerusalem which did happen in the year of 66AD before the final Roman siege when the first Roman army withdrew and were defeated at the battle at Beth Heron by the Jews.

    We read of how the Lord will stand on the mount of olives when it splits so the saints can flee. I believe this to be symbolic of Jesus standing on the mount of olives when He gave His Olivit discourse as He warned the saints to flee Jerusalem when they first see the Roman army which they did when the Roman army withdrew.

    We next read of the living water flowing east and west from Jerusalem. This started on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit started to flow to the world. Jesus told us what the living water was in the verses below

    John 7:37-39
    37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

    Then the Lord will be King of the whole world as the gospel will spread as the church the Jerusalem from above will be raised high and secure because Jesus stated that the gates of hell will never overcome the church.

    Its a chapter of transition from the old covenant to the new covenant from the earthly Jerusalem to the new Jerusalem the Jerusalem from above the church

    Part 4 still to come
    Nice work Marty.
    Looking forward to part 4
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

      Nice work Marty.
      Looking forward to part 4
      Thanks weeder still working on it

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by marty fox View Post
        We’re the events of Zechariah chapter 14 in the first century?

        We first read of Jerusalem being captured and ransacked which we know happened in the year of 70AD

        We also read of Gods people (the saints) fleeing Jerusalem which happened in the year of 66AD before the final Roman siege when the first Roman army withdrew and were defeated at the battle at Beth Heron by the Jews.

        We then read of how the Lord will stand on the mount of olives when it splits so the saints can flee. I believe this to be symbolic of Jesus standing on the mount of olives when He gave the Olivit discourse and warned the saints to flee Jerusalem when they first see the Roman army which they then did when the Roman army withdrew.

        We next read of the living water flowing east and west from Jerusalem. This started on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit started to flow to the world. Jesus told us what the living water was in the verses below

        John 7:37-39
        37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

        Then the Lord will be King of the whole world as the gospel will spread as the church (the Jerusalem from above) will be raised high and secure because Jesus stated that the gates of hell will never overcome the church.

        Its a chapter of transition from the old covenant to the new covenant from the earthly Jerusalem to the new Jerusalem the Jerusalem from above the church

        Part 4 still to come
        It seems to me that to fit Zechariah to past events needs to allegorize SOME but not other prophecies. But to my knowledge, there is not a single prophecy that has been fulfilled, that was not literal, and literally fulfilled. You will agree then, that if one takes the prophecies as literal, then we have events in Zechariah 14 that were never fulfilled.

        Next, the Lord Jesus did not stand on Mount Olivet and warn Jews to flee from the Roman army. In Matthew 24:3 and Mark 13:3 our Lord was on Mount Olives when He warned the Jews to flee when they saw the Abomination of Desolation, which Daniel wrote about. When our Lord warned the Jews to flee that Roman army in Luke, He was speaking in the Temple (Lk.19:43-47, 21:37). The "Desolation of Jerusalem is one thing". The "Abomination of Desolation" is another. In Daniel 9 there are TWO parties and TWO events.
        1. The "people who destroy the city and the sanctuary" in verse 26 which causes "desolation till the end"
        2. The future "prince of these people" who causes the daily oblation to cease and causes the "Abomination of desolation" 3 years before Israel's restoration in verse 27
        Next, the events of Zechariah 14 do not surround 70 AD. Rome and Caesar were the rulers of the earth, and remained so for long while after. But Zachariah 14:9 makes the time spoken of the time when the Lord is King of the earth.

        Next, the events of Zechariah 14 show Jerusalem RESTORED, and the Lord fighting the armies that came up against Her

        Next, the Living waters of John 7 did not come on Pentecost. The come from men who were given the INDWELLING SPIRIT in John 20:22.
        Next, the Living waters of John 7 did not flow down a valley caused by an earthquake
        Next, the Living waters of John 7 did not flow to a "former sea", nor to a "hinder sea". They flowed into men
        Next, if the waters of Zachariah 14 flow out of Jerusalem, then Jerusalem, which had an earthquake, is men
        And so on ..... .

        The difficulties with trying to force Zechariah 14 into the events leading to 70 AD are overwhelming.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Walls View Post

          It seems to me that to fit Zechariah to past events needs to allegorize SOME but not other prophecies. But to my knowledge, there is not a single prophecy that has been fulfilled, that was not literal, and literally fulfilled. You will agree then, that if one takes the prophecies as literal, then we have events in Zechariah 14 that were never fulfilled.

          Next, the Lord Jesus did not stand on Mount Olivet and warn Jews to flee from the Roman army. In Matthew 24:3 and Mark 13:3 our Lord was on Mount Olives when He warned the Jews to flee when they saw the Abomination of Desolation, which Daniel wrote about. When our Lord warned the Jews to flee that Roman army in Luke, He was speaking in the Temple (Lk.19:43-47, 21:37). The "Desolation of Jerusalem is one thing". The "Abomination of Desolation" is another. In Daniel 9 there are TWO parties and TWO events.
          1. The "people who destroy the city and the sanctuary" in verse 26 which causes "desolation till the end"
          2. The future "prince of these people" who causes the daily oblation to cease and causes the "Abomination of desolation" 3 years before Israel's restoration in verse 27
          Next, the events of Zechariah 14 do not surround 70 AD. Rome and Caesar were the rulers of the earth, and remained so for long while after. But Zachariah 14:9 makes the time spoken of the time when the Lord is King of the earth.

          Next, the events of Zechariah 14 show Jerusalem RESTORED, and the Lord fighting the armies that came up against Her

          Next, the Living waters of John 7 did not come on Pentecost. The come from men who were given the INDWELLING SPIRIT in John 20:22.
          Next, the Living waters of John 7 did not flow down a valley caused by an earthquake
          Next, the Living waters of John 7 did not flow to a "former sea", nor to a "hinder sea". They flowed into men
          Next, if the waters of Zachariah 14 flow out of Jerusalem, then Jerusalem, which had an earthquake, is men
          And so on ..... .

          The difficulties with trying to force Zechariah 14 into the events leading to 70 AD are overwhelming.
          Sure there are prophecies that were not literally fulfilled take the verses that I provided in John 7 and how about this verse below was it fulfilled literally?


          Isaiah 19:1
          A prophecy against Egypt:
          See, the Lord rides on a swift cloud
          and is coming to Egypt.
          The idols of Egypt tremble before him,
          and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear.


          Luke 21 does not say that Jesus spoke those words from the temple and it was the same conversation as Matthew 24 and Mark 13. The clue to the location is at the end of Luke 21.

          Luke 21:37-38
          37 Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives,
          38 and all the people came early in the morning to hear him at the temple.

          Jesus taught the people in temple during the day and then retreated and explained what he taught to the disciples on the mount of olives in the evening. The other point is that Luke says that some of the disciples asked the question not all of them and Mark 13 states that


          Mark 13:3-4
          3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately,
          4 “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?”


          So it was only four who had the conversation with Jesus and the same points are made in all thee versions.

          We see Daniel 9 totally different I believe that it was fulfilled in the time of the Maccabees.

          The lord is the king of the world now.

          Acts chapter 1 and 2 clearly shows when the Holy Spirit came what Jesus did in John 20 was to prepare them for the Holy Spirit it was a prophecy

          Acts 1:4-5
          4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
          5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

          Regardless my point was that these chapters in Zechariah were in the first century.


          Yes the waters are people not literal waters

          Revelation 1715
          15 Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.


          Yes Jerusalem (the Jerusalem from above) is the church and it all started in the literal city of Jerusalem

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by marty fox View Post

            Sure there are prophecies that were not literally fulfilled take the verses that I provided in John 7 and how about this verse below was it fulfilled literally?


            Isaiah 19:1
            A prophecy against Egypt:
            See, the Lord rides on a swift cloud
            and is coming to Egypt.
            The idols of Egypt tremble before him,
            and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear.


            Luke 21 does not say that Jesus spoke those words from the temple and it was the same conversation as Matthew 24 and Mark 13. The clue to the location is at the end of Luke 21.

            Luke 21:37-38
            37 Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives,
            38 and all the people came early in the morning to hear him at the temple.

            Jesus taught the people in temple during the day and then retreated and explained what he taught to the disciples on the mount of olives in the evening. The other point is that Luke says that some of the disciples asked the question not all of them and Mark 13 states that


            Mark 13:3-4
            3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately,
            4 “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?”


            So it was only four who had the conversation with Jesus and the same points are made in all thee versions.

            We see Daniel 9 totally different I believe that it was fulfilled in the time of the Maccabees.

            The lord is the king of the world now.

            Acts chapter 1 and 2 clearly shows when the Holy Spirit came what Jesus did in John 20 was to prepare them for the Holy Spirit it was a prophecy

            Acts 1:4-5
            4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
            5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

            Regardless my point was that these chapters in Zechariah were in the first century.


            Yes the waters are people not literal waters

            Revelation 1715
            15 Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.


            Yes Jerusalem (the Jerusalem from above) is the church and it all started in the literal city of Jerusalem
            If you go strictly according to the grammar of Luke, our Lord did NOT "teach" at night on the Mount of Olives. Our Lord might have repeated to His disciples at night on Olivet what He said during the day, but that is pure speculation. In Matthew and Mark however, it is plainly said. I propose that the Great Mastermind of the universe knew what He wanted to say, and we are obliged to follow it accurately.

            If Daniel 9 was fulfilled at the time of Maccabees, when was the city and sanctuary destroyed? And if it pertains to the Maccabees event, show Israel's (i)finished transgression, (ii) end of sins, (iii) reconciliation for iniquity, (iv) everlasting righteousness, (v) the vision and prophecy sealed, and (vi) the most Holy anointed

            Acts Chapter 1 and 2 are prophesied in Joel and Luke 24:49. The Greek word used there means "endued", or "furnished". But that which happened in John 20:22 was "receiving as breath into the inward parts". One is outward like a policeman's uniform and the other inwardly as air is breathed. John 20:22 is to receive LIFE (Jn.20:30-31) and the one in Acts was to receive POWER.

            The only similarity of Zechariah 14 to the events of the first century is that Jerusalem is compassed with an army. Otherwise, you have to show;
            1. The day of the Lord in the first century (v.1)
            2. The Lord going forth to fight for Jerusalem (v.3). According to Matthew 22:7 God ordered the destruction of Jerusalem, never mind fighting for it
            3. The Lord standing on Mount Olives in the first century (v.4)
            4. Mount Olives being cut in two in the first century (v.4)
            5. A great valley in the midst of Mount Olives since then (v.4)
            6. And so on ...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Walls View Post

              If you go strictly according to the grammar of Luke, our Lord did NOT "teach" at night on the Mount of Olives. Our Lord might have repeated to His disciples at night on Olivet what He said during the day, but that is pure speculation. In Matthew and Mark however, it is plainly said. I propose that the Great Mastermind of the universe knew what He wanted to say, and we are obliged to follow it accurately.

              If Daniel 9 was fulfilled at the time of Maccabees, when was the city and sanctuary destroyed? And if it pertains to the Maccabees event, show Israel's (i)finished transgression, (ii) end of sins, (iii) reconciliation for iniquity, (iv) everlasting righteousness, (v) the vision and prophecy sealed, and (vi) the most Holy anointed

              Acts Chapter 1 and 2 are prophesied in Joel and Luke 24:49. The Greek word used there means "endued", or "furnished". But that which happened in John 20:22 was "receiving as breath into the inward parts". One is outward like a policeman's uniform and the other inwardly as air is breathed. John 20:22 is to receive LIFE (Jn.20:30-31) and the one in Acts was to receive POWER.

              The only similarity of Zechariah 14 to the events of the first century is that Jerusalem is compassed with an army. Otherwise, you have to show;
              1. The day of the Lord in the first century (v.1)
              2. The Lord going forth to fight for Jerusalem (v.3). According to Matthew 22:7 God ordered the destruction of Jerusalem, never mind fighting for it
              3. The Lord standing on Mount Olives in the first century (v.4)
              4. Mount Olives being cut in two in the first century (v.4)
              5. A great valley in the midst of Mount Olives since then (v.4)
              6. And so on ...
              I do have a thread on this form explaining in detail my understanding of the 70weeks I'll see if I can dig it up

              I think I explained my case for the Holy Spirt with the matching scriptures but as I said my point is that it happened in the first century.

              The day of the Lord was His judgement on Israel in 70AD

              The Lord did fight for Jerusalem when the army retreated and the saints escaped. It wasn't really the literal city that He fought for but the Jerusalem from above the church.

              Jesus repeatley stood on the mount of olives in the first century

              As I stated before the splitting and the valley was symbolic for the escape

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                I do have a thread on this form explaining in detail my understanding of the 70weeks I'll see if I can dig it up

                I think I explained my case for the Holy Spirt with the matching scriptures but as I said my point is that it happened in the first century.

                The day of the Lord was His judgement on Israel in 70AD

                The Lord did fight for Jerusalem when the army retreated and the saints escaped. It wasn't really the literal city that He fought for but the Jerusalem from above the church.

                Jesus repeatley stood on the mount of olives in the first century

                As I stated before the splitting and the valley was symbolic for the escape
                O.K. Thanks for the reply. I've read it and noted it. Go well bro.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Walls View Post

                  O.K. Thanks for the reply. I've read it and noted it. Go well bro.
                  Thanks Walls one more post to come LOL

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                    Thanks Walls one more post to come LOL
                    Yeah. We all like to have the last word, but I appreciate your courteous way, and you've clearly stated your view. I rarely go to the barricades over Israeli prophecy. The events of Zechariah are of great interest but don't really define my Christian walk. Take care bro.

                    Comment

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