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“In that day” first century events and Zechariah 11-14 part 5

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  • “In that day” first century events and Zechariah 11-14 part 5

    In Zechariah 14:16-19 it talks about the survivors of the nations coming up to worshiping the lord year after year and celebrating the feast of tabernacles. This is a symbolic description of the gentile church who came out of the nations who were against Israel who now worship the Lord. They have now accepted the gospel and carry on the duties of Israel. These nations are the Jerusalem from above the church which is made up of both Jew and gentile.

    The feast of Tabernacles was the feast in which the Jews celebrated the memory of their forty year wandering in the wilderness waiting to go to the promised land now the church is waiting to go to heaven. Jesus wouldn’t bring back a literal feast of tabernacles that only pointed to Him when He would already be there in person. God dwelt in a tented temple with Israel He now dwells within the churches bodily temples.

    Verse 20-21 states that “In that day holy to the lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar.”

    This symbolizes that we the church will be as the sacred bowls in front of the alter which were consecrated to the Lord.

    Like the rest of chapters from 11-14 these events happened or started in the first century in that day

    https://bibleforums.org/forum/christ...h-11-14-part-1

  • #2
    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    In Zechariah 14:16-19 it talks about the survivors of the nations coming up to worshiping the lord year after year and celebrating the feast of tabernacles. This is a symbolic description of the gentile church who came out of the nations who were against Israel who now worship the Lord. They have now accepted the gospel and carry on the duties of Israel. These nations are the Jerusalem from above the church which is made up of both Jew and gentile.

    The feast of Tabernacles was the feast in which the Jews celebrated the memory of their forty year wandering in the wilderness waiting to go to the promised land now the church is waiting to go to heaven. Jesus wouldn’t bring back a literal feast of tabernacles that only pointed to Him when He would already be there in person. God dwelt in a tented temple with Israel He now dwells within the churches bodily temples.

    Verse 20-21 states that “In that day holy to the lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar.”

    This symbolizes that we the church will be as the sacred bowls in front of the alter which were consecrated to the Lord.

    Like the rest of chapters from 11-14 these events happened or started in the first century in that day

    https://bibleforums.org/forum/christ...h-11-14-part-1
    There is nothing in Zechariah Chapter 14 that indicates it is symbolic. Zechariah 14 is going to happen exactly as it prophecies things will happen. Zechariah 14 is a description of Jesus arriving on Earth in the Holy City Jerusalem at His Second Coming to Earth. It is a false teaching to assume that Jesus Returns to the Earth a Second time, only to leave, and then again Return a third time. That doctrine is NOT Scriptural. When Jesus Gets Here at the time of the Rapture, He is here to stay, the Holy City Jerusalem will be with Him coming down to the Earth. At the time of His Rapture of the Saints.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Disciple-Dave View Post

      There is nothing in Zechariah Chapter 14 that indicates it is symbolic. Zechariah 14 is going to happen exactly as it prophecies things will happen. Zechariah 14 is a description of Jesus arriving on Earth in the Holy City Jerusalem at His Second Coming to Earth. It is a false teaching to assume that Jesus Returns to the Earth a Second time, only to leave, and then again Return a third time. That doctrine is NOT Scriptural. When Jesus Gets Here at the time of the Rapture, He is here to stay, the Holy City Jerusalem will be with Him coming down to the Earth. At the time of His Rapture of the Saints.
      I agree and disagree. I disagree about it not being symbolic (see the other 4 parts of this study)

      I agree that Jesus will only come back one more time I'm not sure why you think ( or if you think) that I think He will come back two more times.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by marty fox View Post

        I agree and disagree. I disagree about it not being symbolic (see the other 4 parts of this study)

        I agree that Jesus will only come back one more time I'm not sure why you think ( or if you think) that I think He will come back two more times.
        i did not accuse you of thinking that He does, only making a comment, it is a false doctrine to think that He is going to come back more than one more time. i know not what you believe or don't believe on this matter, i can see though how you might of thought that i was saying it to you personally. That was not my intentions.

        Zechariah 14 is not even written in a symbolic fashion, it is most certainly describing exactly what Jesus is going to do when He gets to the Earth in the Holy City. There is absolutely nothing in Zechariah 14 that would indicate it is symbolic in any way. Zech 14 ties into many other prophecies concerning what Jesus is going to do when He gets to the Earth.

        If you want to understand what each verse is teaching in Zech 14 then click one of the links above.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Disciple-Dave View Post

          i did not accuse you of thinking that He does, only making a comment, it is a false doctrine to think that He is going to come back more than one more time. i know not what you believe or don't believe on this matter, i can see though how you might of thought that i was saying it to you personally. That was not my intentions.

          Zechariah 14 is not even written in a symbolic fashion, it is most certainly describing exactly what Jesus is going to do when He gets to the Earth in the Holy City. There is absolutely nothing in Zechariah 14 that would indicate it is symbolic in any way. Zech 14 ties into many other prophecies concerning what Jesus is going to do when He gets to the Earth.

          If you want to understand what each verse is teaching in Zech 14 then click one of the links above.
          No worries thanks

          Did you check out the other 4 parts?

          It will help explain my thoughts about symbolism for example verse 8

          8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

          Jesus shows us the symbolic meaning in John 7:37-39

          37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by marty fox View Post

            No worries thanks

            Did you check out the other 4 parts?

            It will help explain my thoughts about symbolism for example verse 8

            8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

            Jesus shows us the symbolic meaning in John 7:37-39

            37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
            i understand what your saying, but implying that there is no LIVING WATER at all, that it is only symbolism for the Holy Ghost, does not line up with all of Scritpures. Therefore can't be True. i am not saying the Holy Ghost has not been refered to as living water, but that does not negate that Living Water actually exists.

            And what if it is NOT symbolic at all and it is actually Living Water that comes out of the Holy City on the East Side and on the West side? Other Scriptures confirms this Water.

            Water coming from the City is also prophesied in Ezek 47:1-12. This water that comes out from the Holy City is indeed Living Water, it will water the WHOLE New EARTH.

            Rev 22:1-2 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life (Which would most certainly be LIVING WATER), clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

            Again, yet another prophecy concerning Water coming out of the Holy City. Is it not written that Scriptures interprets Scriptures. If there are other Scriptures which plainly teach about WATER coming out of the Holy City from the West side and the East side, why would you think Zech 14 is symbolism? when other verses plainly confirms that it is literal.

            Zechariah 14 is not symbolic, but literal prophecy, that will happen exactly as it says it will happen.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Disciple-Dave View Post

              i understand what your saying, but implying that there is no LIVING WATER at all, that it is only symbolism for the Holy Ghost, does not line up with all of Scritpures. Therefore can't be True. i am not saying the Holy Ghost has not been refered to as living water, but that does not negate that Living Water actually exists.

              And what if it is NOT symbolic at all and it is actually Living Water that comes out of the Holy City on the East Side and on the West side? Other Scriptures confirms this Water.

              Water coming from the City is also prophesied in Ezek 47:1-12. This water that comes out from the Holy City is indeed Living Water, it will water the WHOLE New EARTH.

              Rev 22:1-2 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life (Which would most certainly be LIVING WATER), clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

              Again, yet another prophecy concerning Water coming out of the Holy City. Is it not written that Scriptures interprets Scriptures. If there are other Scriptures which plainly teach about WATER coming out of the Holy City from the West side and the East side, why would you think Zech 14 is symbolism? when other verses plainly confirms that it is literal.

              Zechariah 14 is not symbolic, but literal prophecy, that will happen exactly as it says it will happen.
              I am using Jesus interpretation of the living water who knows best which is the same interpretation as ever and Revelation. This living water Is the Holy Spirit that flows from God the Father which cleanses and gives life and bears fruit can’t you see this?

              What is the purpose of of literal living water why would that even matter?

              Jesus explains this living water so that the deciples would of understood what Ezekiel was actually talking about Jesus even uses the term rivers flowing

              Comment


              • #8
                So all verses i showed you, seems you did not understand.


                Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                I am using Jesus interpretation of the living water who knows best which is the same interpretation as ever and Revelation. This living water Is the Holy Spirit that flows from God the Father which cleanses and gives life and bears fruit can’t you see this?
                Jesus compared the Holy Ghost with Living Water. Yes i see this. But you are using this comparison as a means to say Living Water don't actually exist, that any reference to Living Water can't be about actual Living Water it must be about the Holy Ghost. This you do error.

                Zec_14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

                According to your teaching, if this Living Water is the Holy Ghost, then only those who are West of the City gets the Holy Ghost and East gets the Holy Ghost, but those who are North and south are just out of luck. And something else does not add up here. Hasn't the Holy Ghost already been freely given to us? Why then is there a need for the Holy Ghost to proceed from the Holy City, only to the West and East mind you, when Everyone by this time, should have or have no the Holy Ghost. You do error not understanding that this Living Water is what goes out into the Whole World. Any where this particular water touches upon the whole Earth becomes like that of the Garden of Eden. This is Living Water, that causes anything to touch it to live and prosper. Even the Trees that are along this river, even the leaves of it will heal any human of their ailments. You do error not understanding these things.

                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                What is the purpose of of literal living water why would that even matter?
                It matters because Scriptures teaches it exists.

                Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                Jesus explains this living water so that the deciples would of understood what Ezekiel was actually talking about Jesus even uses the term rivers flowing
                Ezekiels River of water is not symbolic, but He was describing the actual River that will come out of the Holy City, NOT symbolic, but literal.


                Why is it, this generation when they do not believe something to be literal, they automatically assume it is symbolic?
                Because of this symbolic method used by the last days generation, is a big part of the reasons people no longer believe the Bible is True.

                For example Scientist teach "The World is Billions of years old" Therefore many people believe that nonsense and then think that Genesis account can't be literal if the Earth is Billions of years old, it must then be Symbolic.

                Zechariah Chapter 14 is NOT symbolic, it is what is going to happen, exactly like the Prophet said it is going to happen. Just because humans don't believe it, doesn't mean it isn't TRUE. There is nothing in Zechariah 14 that would even remotely indicate that the Prophet was speaking symbolically.

                Also another thing that disturbs me about those who symbolize things in Scriptures. How, they will ultimately say that Scripture is symbolism, but have no clue whatsoever what it symbolizes. For example Zech 14:8 marty says that Living Water symbolizes the Holy Ghost, but can't explain why the Holy Ghost is only going out from Jerusalem in two directions, Why is the Holy Ghost going out from Jerusalem only? Hasn't the Holy Ghost gone out by the laying on of hands from any person who had already received the Holy Ghost, Doesn't the Holy Ghost go out in all directions and is not partial for one direction over another, but now it seems it only comes out of Jerusalem and only in two directions, if the Living Water is actually the Holy Ghost.

                What if the Living Water is actual exactly what it says, no interpretations needed, no analogies, no allegories, symbolism, no hypothesis, no guessing, But is what it says it is?

                Jesus used Living Water in reference to the Holy Ghost.
                Jesus used Bread as a reference to Himself.
                Does that mean Bread does not actually exist?
                Likewise just because Jesus used Living Water to reference the Holy Ghost, does not mean Living Water does not exist.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Disciple-Dave View Post
                  So all verses i showed you, seems you did not understand.




                  Jesus compared the Holy Ghost with Living Water. Yes i see this. But you are using this comparison as a means to say Living Water don't actually exist, that any reference to Living Water can't be about actual Living Water it must be about the Holy Ghost. This you do error.

                  Zec_14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

                  According to your teaching, if this Living Water is the Holy Ghost, then only those who are West of the City gets the Holy Ghost and East gets the Holy Ghost, but those who are North and south are just out of luck. And something else does not add up here. Hasn't the Holy Ghost already been freely given to us? Why then is there a need for the Holy Ghost to proceed from the Holy City, only to the West and East mind you, when Everyone by this time, should have or have no the Holy Ghost. You do error not understanding that this Living Water is what goes out into the Whole World. Any where this particular water touches upon the whole Earth becomes like that of the Garden of Eden. This is Living Water, that causes anything to touch it to live and prosper. Even the Trees that are along this river, even the leaves of it will heal any human of their ailments. You do error not understanding these things.



                  It matters because Scriptures teaches it exists.



                  Ezekiels River of water is not symbolic, but He was describing the actual River that will come out of the Holy City, NOT symbolic, but literal.


                  Why is it, this generation when they do not believe something to be literal, they automatically assume it is symbolic?
                  Because of this symbolic method used by the last days generation, is a big part of the reasons people no longer believe the Bible is True.

                  For example Scientist teach "The World is Billions of years old" Therefore many people believe that nonsense and then think that Genesis account can't be literal if the Earth is Billions of years old, it must then be Symbolic.

                  Zechariah Chapter 14 is NOT symbolic, it is what is going to happen, exactly like the Prophet said it is going to happen. Just because humans don't believe it, doesn't mean it isn't TRUE. There is nothing in Zechariah 14 that would even remotely indicate that the Prophet was speaking symbolically.

                  Also another thing that disturbs me about those who symbolize things in Scriptures. How, they will ultimately say that Scripture is symbolism, but have no clue whatsoever what it symbolizes. For example Zech 14:8 marty says that Living Water symbolizes the Holy Ghost, but can't explain why the Holy Ghost is only going out from Jerusalem in two directions, Why is the Holy Ghost going out from Jerusalem only? Hasn't the Holy Ghost gone out by the laying on of hands from any person who had already received the Holy Ghost, Doesn't the Holy Ghost go out in all directions and is not partial for one direction over another, but now it seems it only comes out of Jerusalem and only in two directions, if the Living Water is actually the Holy Ghost.

                  What if the Living Water is actual exactly what it says, no interpretations needed, no analogies, no allegories, symbolism, no hypothesis, no guessing, But is what it says it is?

                  Jesus used Living Water in reference to the Holy Ghost.
                  Jesus used Bread as a reference to Himself.
                  Does that mean Bread does not actually exist?
                  Likewise just because Jesus used Living Water to reference the Holy Ghost, does not mean Living Water does not exist.
                  You can't make claims like this below without checking what I already said you lose all credibility
                  (For example Zech 14:8 marty says that Living Water symbolizes the Holy Ghost, but can't explain why the Holy Ghost is only going out from Jerusalem in two directions)

                  If you read the other 4 parts of this topic I wrote you will see that already explained it, the Holy Spirit came to the apostles in Jerusalem and they took it to the world

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                    You can't make claims like this below without checking what I already said you lose all credibility
                    (For example Zech 14:8 marty says that Living Water symbolizes the Holy Ghost, but can't explain why the Holy Ghost is only going out from Jerusalem in two directions)

                    If you read the other 4 parts of this topic I wrote you will see that already explained it, the Holy Spirit came to the apostles in Jerusalem and they took it to the world
                    They took it to the world in ALL directions, not just two directions. That is why i said you do not explain Zech 14:8 why only two directions if it is indeed symbolic. This you have NOT addressed even in your parts. Which is my point, it is NOT symbolic, it specifically teaches that Living Water comes out of the Holy City in Two specific direction, NOT to the North, and NOT to the South. You keep saying that Zech 14:8 is symbolic but can't explain WHY it is symbolic. you ONLY talk about the Living Water being symbolic but then explain nothing else and how it is symbolic.

                    Here is what is TRUE.

                    You teach Zech 14:8 is sybolic
                    i teach Zech 14:8 is Literal.

                    These statements are True. OK you teach that Zech 14:8 is symbolic, but can't explain WHY it is symbolic, the ONLY thing you try to explain in that verse, is you THINK the Living Water spoken in that verse is symbolic for the Holy Ghost, but can't explain any other part of that same verse and what they mean symbolically.

                    Are you suggesting that it is not possible to be literal? Really, not possible, why do you think it can't be literal? Just wandering.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Disciple-Dave View Post

                      They took it to the world in ALL directions, not just two directions. That is why i said you do not explain Zech 14:8 why only two directions if it is indeed symbolic. This you have NOT addressed even in your parts. Which is my point, it is NOT symbolic, it specifically teaches that Living Water comes out of the Holy City in Two specific direction, NOT to the North, and NOT to the South. You keep saying that Zech 14:8 is symbolic but can't explain WHY it is symbolic. you ONLY talk about the Living Water being symbolic but then explain nothing else and how it is symbolic.

                      Here is what is TRUE.

                      You teach Zech 14:8 is sybolic
                      i teach Zech 14:8 is Literal.

                      These statements are True. OK you teach that Zech 14:8 is symbolic, but can't explain WHY it is symbolic, the ONLY thing you try to explain in that verse, is you THINK the Living Water spoken in that verse is symbolic for the Holy Ghost, but can't explain any other part of that same verse and what they mean symbolically.

                      Are you suggesting that it is not possible to be literal? Really, not possible, why do you think it can't be literal? Just wandering.
                      Living water brings life to dead earth and waters this is a symbolic picture of the holy sprit purifying and healing people all over the world as Christianity spreads to the east and to the west

                      John 4:13-14
                      13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                        Living water brings life to dead earth and waters this is a symbolic picture of the holy sprit purifying and healing people all over the world as Christianity spreads to the east and to the west

                        John 4:13-14
                        13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
                        What do you see Zechariah 14:2 referring to? Clearly Zechariah 14:8 is meaning after the time of verse 2, and not before or during it instead. It is meaning during the time of Zechariah 14:11. Clearly Zechariah 14:11 can't already be true before or during the time of verse 2. In the event you doubt that, look at these two verses below at the bottom of this post, side by side, so to speak.

                        Does it look like Zechariah 14:11 can already be true before or during the time of verse 2? So once again, Zechariah 14:8 is meaning during the time of Zechariah 14:11, and that Zechariah 14:11 is meaning after the time of Zechariah 14:2. With all of that in mind, when do you assume Jesus was meaning that John 4:13-14 was already true? Before the time of Zechariah 14:2, or after the time of Zechariah 14:2? Obviously before the time of Zech 14:2, wouldn't you agree? Therefore Zechariah 14:8 couldn't possibly be meaning John 4:13-14, since, like I plainly showed, Zechariah 14:8 is meaning after the time of Zechariah 14:2, and that John 4:13-14 is already true before the time of Zechariah 14:2. It's little clues like this we should be paying more attention to. Less likely to misinterpret things that way.

                        Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

                        Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by divaD View Post

                          What do you see Zechariah 14:2 referring to? Clearly Zechariah 14:8 is meaning after the time of verse 2, and not before or during it instead. It is meaning during the time of Zechariah 14:11. Clearly Zechariah 14:11 can't already be true before or during the time of verse 2. In the event you doubt that, look at these two verses below at the bottom of this post, side by side, so to speak.

                          Does it look like Zechariah 14:11 can already be true before or during the time of verse 2? So once again, Zechariah 14:8 is meaning during the time of Zechariah 14:11, and that Zechariah 14:11 is meaning after the time of Zechariah 14:2. With all of that in mind, when do you assume Jesus was meaning that John 4:13-14 was already true? Before the time of Zechariah 14:2, or after the time of Zechariah 14:2? Obviously before the time of Zech 14:2, wouldn't you agree? Therefore Zechariah 14:8 couldn't possibly be meaning John 4:13-14, since, like I plainly showed, Zechariah 14:8 is meaning after the time of Zechariah 14:2, and that John 4:13-14 is already true before the time of Zechariah 14:2. It's little clues like this we should be paying more attention to. Less likely to misinterpret things that way.

                          Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

                          Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
                          Wow that’s confusing LOL

                          Have you read all five parts? It’s explained it all happened in that day as each section states in that day

                          Here is part two

                          If we read zechariah chapters 11-14 we will see a continuing theme of “in that day” meaning the same time period.

                          It seams to be the events of the first century. We read of the betrayal and death of Jesus’ the cleansing of sin’ the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the destruction of Jerusalem and how Jerusalem is secure. All these events happened in that day in the first century.

                          But there seams to be a contradiction on one hand on that day we read of the destruction of Jerusalem but then on the other hand on that day we read of the Lord defending Jerusalem and making it safe but how could that be?

                          Maybe the answer is in Galatians chapter 4:21-31 where Paul teaches about two Jerusalems one the literal city of Jerusalem and the other the Jerusalem from above the mother of us all. The saints being the children of the Jerusalem from above also makes us the Jerusalem from above which was the Jerusalem that God protected as He called the saints out of the literal city of Jerusalem before it was destroyed.

                          This conclusion seams to make sense and explains what happens to both Jerusalems in The book of Zechariah which also were events that happened in the first century.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. (Isa 13:6, 9, Eze 30:3, Joel 1:15, Joel 2:1, 11, 31, Rev 16:14)

                            Day of the Lord cometh: Rapture: Blessing for the Saints, Wrath for the Heathens. Jerusalem will be plundered.

                            Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (Isa 5:26, Isa 31:4-5, Luke 21:20-24, Zec 12:2, Mic 4:11, Rev 16:14)

                            Jesus will gather all nations of the entire World to come against Jerusalem to battle against them. {This has NEVER happened in the past. So this is not talking about a time in the Past, but is CLEARLY and PLAINLY talking about about a Time yet to come.} It shall be taken, the houses plundered and the women taken away. Half of the city will be taken away from Jerusalem, but half of them will remain in Jerusalem.

                            Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. (Zec 10:4-5, 12:4, 12:9, Isa 13:9-11, Isa 66:15-16, Dan 2:34-35, 2:44-45, Joe 3:1-2, 9-17, Hag 2:21-22, I Sam 2:10)

                            {Yet Again. This has NEVER happened in the Past, this is a prophecy of what is YET TO COME.} In the process of Jerusalem being attacked by all nations of the world, when half of Jerusalem is being taken away as hostages by those nations, is when Jesus will Return the second time and He will fight against all those nations that is attacking Jerusalem, and rescue the Tribe of Judah from them (Amos 9:14)

                            Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,* which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (Mic 1:3, 4:1-3)

                            {This has NOT happened yet, This ALSO is YET TO COME, another prophecy that is going to happen in the FUTURE.} Jesus will stand upon the Mount of Olives just east of old Jerusalem. And the Earth will split from where He stands to the East and to the West, creating two mountains to the East and to the West, with a large valley inbetween them. Then each of those mountains will split, Half to the North, and Half to the South. This forms four Mountains, which will be the feet* of the New Jerusalem, the HOUSE OF GOD, The Bride of Christ, the Tabernacle of God*, which will come down out of Heaven* and sit upon these four mountains, with a very Great Valley underneith the Holy City. (Isa 2:2)

                            Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (Jude 1:14, Psa 96:13, 98:9, Isa 64:1-3, 66:15-16, Hos 3:4-5)

                            On This specific day is when the Lord shall come, which is the RAPTURE, the second coming of Jesus Christ to the Earth. The people of old Jerusalem, the Tribe of Judah, will flee to this valley between the four mountains, when Jesus the "Deliverer"* releases them from their captures. And Jesus will Return on this Day, and all the Saints with Him. Therefore at this time, the Saints will have all been taken up with Jesus, because it plainly states that ALL the Saints are with Him, therefore Before Jesus goes to battle against all those nations that come against old Jerusalem, Jesus first goes and gets all the Saints that are sleeping (have died) from around the world, for they will rise first* * , then the living are taken up next from around the world, then Jesus and the Raptured Church, that Saints battle all those coming against Jerusalem, while at the same time, the New City Jerusalem is coming down out of Heaven* to the Earth.

                            Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: (Isa 60:1-3)

                            On this day, {Talking about the SAME DAY that is YET TO COME IN THE FUTURE} you will not be able to tell if it is daytime, or nighttime. The Sun and Moon are darkened* * but Jesus shines as the Light on Earth.

                            Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

                            On the day of the Rapture, Which is the Day of the Lord, You won't be able to tell if it is daytime or nighttime, but at evening time during that Day, when it is all said and done, of all that Christ will do on that Day, it will be LIGHT.

                            Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. (Joe 3:18, Eze 47:1-12, Isa 35:1-10, 41:17-20, 49:10, Rev 7:17, Rev 22:1-2)

                            And on that Same Day of the Rapture, Living waters will come out of the Holy City Jerusalem heading out in two different directions from the Holy City, and wheresoever that water touches becomes like that of the Garden of Eden. And this water will not fail to come forth from the City summer and winters alike.

                            Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. (Gen 49:10, Psa 2:6-8, 22:27-28, 47:2-9, 67:4, 72:8-11, 17, 86:9, Isa 60:14, Eze 48:35, Dan 2:44-45, 7:27, Jer 23:5-6, Amos 9:12, Mic 5:4, Mal 1:11-15, Zep 3:9, Eph 4:4-6, Php 2:9-11, Rev 11:15, Zec 8:3, 8:4-8)

                            ON THIS DAY, The "Day of the Lord" Jesus Christ will be KING over all the Earth.{This HAS NOT happened yet, Jesus is NOT yet King over Kings of the Nations, but will be IN THE FUTURE} Rev 11:15 plainly teaches that at the 7th Trumpet sounding is when all the Kingdoms of the world belong to Jesus Christ, So then the Church is going to go through the 7 seals, and the Church is going to go through the 6 Trumpets, So then the Church is going to go through some of the Tribulation Period but not all of it, The Church is not appointed for the wrath of the 7 last plagues, the vial/bowl judgments. When Jesus comes down to the Earth and fights for Israel, and ALL the Saints are gathered to be with Him on this DAY, is when the Lord Jesus Christ WILL BE KING over ALL the EARTH. It is on this DAY, that Jesus Christ starts HIS reign on Earth. (I Cor 15:24-25, Isa 24:23, Jer 23:5, Mic 4:7, Rev 11:15) and we Saints will reign with Him (Rev 5:10, 20:6, 22:5, II Tim 2:12 ) . And all the heathen nations will come and worship and serve Jesus Christ. (Zec 14:16-17)

                            Zec 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. (Joe 3:18, Isa 35:1-10, 41:17-20, Eze 34:22-29, Amos 9:13-15)

                            The entire Valley underneath the Holy City Jerusalem will be like that of the Garden of Eden, and any where that the Living Water touches on the Earth will be like that of the Garden of Eden as well.

                            Zec 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. (Zec 12:6, Jer 23:5-6, 30:18, 33:15-16, Isa 60:18, 30:19, Eze 34:22-29, 37:26-28, Joe 3:17, 20, Amos 9:11-15, Rev 21:1-4)

                            Jerusalem will never be destroyed again.

                            Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. (Zec 12:9, Psa 110:5-6, Isa 34:1-3, 66:15-16, Eze 38:18-22, 39:4-6, 39:17-20, Rev 19:17-21, Mic 4:11-13, 5:8-9, 7:16-17, I Sam 2:10, II Thes 2:8)

                            All those that came against old Jerusalem to attack it, will suffer a plague. Their insides will melt from within, and their eyes will consume away in their skulls, and their flesh will melt away, and the birds will eat the flesh off the dead.

                            Zec 14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. (Eze 38:21, Zec 10:4-5, 12:4, Jdg 7:22, I Sam 14:15-16, II Chron 20:22-24)

                            When Christ shows up in the middle of their attack against old Jerusalem, with the Holy City Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven, which the Heathens will call the "Mother Ship" and/or "UFO". And hundreds of people on the Earth just vanished into thin air (Rapture) There will be much confusion, chaos will reign, Birds will attack and eat all flesh, Soldiers being struck with madness, and killing people, Heathens fighting against heathens, turmoil, looting, the whole world gone mad. .etc... .. . .

                            Zec 14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. (Zec 10:4-5, 12:5-7, Isa 23:18, Eze 39:9-10)

                            Judah will also fight against all those nations for the Glory of the House of David. They shall rob those who robbed them. The Tribe of Judah will gather the spoils of all the nations that came against them.

                            Zec 14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague. (Zec 12:4, 14:12, Eze 39:17-20)

                            Any living thing that attacks Jerusalem during that Day, human or animal, shall have this plague.

                            Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. (Gen 49:10, Zec 8:20-23, Psa 22:29, 86:9, Isa 2:2-4, Isa 27:12-13, Isa 66:18-24, Mic 4:1-3, Joel 3:1-2, 21, Zep 2:11)

                            And all those people of those heathen nations that did not come up and actually fight against Jerusalem on that Day will be required to come and worship the Lord Jesus every year, for the Feast of Tabernacles. A Feast to remember how the Lord Jesus Saved a remnant of the Tribe of Judah from ALL the Nations that came against old Jerusalem, to destroy it, on that "Day of the Lord", which is the Rapture.
                            The New City Jerusalem, (Heb 11:10, 16, 12:22, 13:14, Rev 3:12 ) which came down out of Heaven with Jesus, out of which Jesus and the Saints will reign over the entire Earth, will be the place the entire World will have to go to every year to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. However they will never step a foot inside the Holy City (Eze 44:9, Joel 3:17, Rev 21:27, 22:14-15), nor will they be allowed under the Holy City where the Great Valley is, reserved for the 144,000 sealed Tribes of Israel. But the Heathens, atheists, backslidden Christians, whose names have been blotted out of the Book of Life, will tread outside of, but in sight of, the Holy City, until the time of the gentiles be fulfilled.

                            Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. (Deu 11:17, Amo 4:7-8)

                            And all those Heathens and false Christians (goats) that were left behind during the Rapture if they do not come up and worship Jesus Christ at the Holy City Jerusalem, will receive NO RAIN for their crops, yea during this time, if you want to eat, you grow it or raise it, no restraunts, fast foods, convenient stores, or grocery stores around, to survive you grow food, or you raise food, or you die. So if these people refuse to come up and worship the God in the Holy City, which during the first year most will not, then there will be no rain for them, and their crops will fail, and their livestock will die, and many people die.

                            Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (Isa 60:12)

                            And if those people who were left behind during the Rapture, after having no rain, Because they don't grow their own food, but get it some other way and still do not come up to worship Jesus Christ at the Holy City Jerusalem, will suffer the plague that all those men who attacked Jerusalem suffered on that Day. So after that first year, they will come up to worship the Lord Jesus whether they want to or not.

                            Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

                            Any Nation of the entire Earth, that does not come up to the Holy City Jerusalem to worship and serve Jesus Christ and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles, shall be punished by the King of the Earth, Jesus Christ.

                            Zec 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. (Isa 23:18)

                            All pots in the LORD's House, Holy City Jerusalem, will be HOLY.

                            Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. (Joel 3:17, Isa 4:3, 35:8, Eze 44:9, Jer 31:40, Rev 21:27, 22:14-15)

                            Yea Every pot and utensil in all of the Holy City Jerusalem will be HOLY to God. And even the pots in Judah, the valley underneath the Holy City will also be HOLY unto the Lord of Hosts. Judah turns the spoils into instruments to serve the God of Israel, which was, is, and forever will be, Jesus Christ.

                            If what you believe contradicts even one verse in the Word of God (KJV) Then what you believe is WRONG. What i told you above, is what Scriptures teaches over and over again, and is what God told me as well. If what you believe is going to happen in the future, does not line up with Zech 14. Then i assure you with no doubts whatsoever what you believe is WRONG. If what you believe contradicts even one verse in this chapter, then what you believe is WRONG. If what you believe contradicts any verse in Scriptures, then what you believe is WRONG.

                            Instead of trying to change Scriptures to fit into what you think is TRUTH. Try to change what you believe to line up with EVERY verse in the Word of God, only then can you understand the TRUTH.

                            Definition of False Doctrine = Any belief that contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, is indeed a false belief, and if you teach others that belief, it becomes a false doctrine.

                            May the Holy Spirit of Truth, guide you into her TRUTH. May you recognize the voice of the Sheppard when you hear Him. May you find that narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting, which only a very few will actually do, may you be one of those very few, walking a life to ONLY please Jesus and not walking a life to please yourself. May you always look to Jesus for His Strength and Power whenever you are tempted to commit sin. May you look for that path out of it, that Jesus makes sure is there every single time you are tempted to sin against Him. my prayer is that one day i will see you in the Holy City at the Marriage Supper of the Lord. i pray all this to you Father, in the name of your Holy Son Jesus Christ, amen.

                            The Above is the Article found on Discipledave(dot)com concerning Zech Chapter 14. Since one of you made the comment "You don't want to link to one of the articles" i decided to put the whole thing here to try to help that person from clicking on a link. except for what is in-between { }

                            If you do go to the Link at Discipledave(dot)com. then you can click on each reference verse and it will pop up for you to read. Blessed is the person who searches out the Scriptures for answers.

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                            • #15
                              I present the following article simply to show there is an alternative view that many believe is Biblical.


                              Dispensationalism and Zechariah 14


                              by Wayne Jackson


                              Zechariah 14 has no reference whatever to a millennial reign of Christ upon the earth.

                              Dispensationalists - those enamored with the notion that Christ will return to the earth to establish a political kingdom over which he will reign for 1,000 years - rely heavily upon Zechariah, chapter 14, as an important Old Testament element of the premillennial scheme. Dispensational writer Hobert E. Freeman characterizes this chapter as a description of “the destruction of Israel’s enemies, salvation of Jerusalem and the millennial reign of the Messiah over all the world from Zion.” He further states:
                              “The prophecy of Zechariah is to the Old Testament what the book of Revelation is to the New. It is the Apocalypse of the Old Testament which portrays God’s future dealings with His chosen people Israel . . . The book of Zechariah, especially chapter 14, stands as a continual corrective to all those theories which deny the literal, future restoration of Israel, after a period of chastening, in her own land, over whom the Messiah will reign in Zion” (334-335).
                              Dramatically, advocates of dispensational theology allege that Zechariah 14:1-3 contains a description of the approaching “battle of Armageddon,” which supposedly will be consummated by the descent of Christ “upon the mount of Olives” (vs. 4) to overthrow his enemies and to commence his millennial reign.

                              The truth of the matter is, Zechariah 14 has no reference whatever to a millennial reign of Christ upon the earth. The Bible indisputably teaches that the Second Coming of the Lord will terminate all earthly affairs (2 Pet. 3:4,10). A Look at the Text

                              The prophet Zechariah foretells a coming “day of Jehovah” when the nations will be gathered against “Jerusalem” for a great battle. The horrors of the conflict are interrupted when the Lord intervenes and defends the city against the nations. The mount of Olives east of Jerusalem is rent asunder, providing a passageway of escape for the faithful. The enemies of God are punished with fearful plagues and henceforth Jerusalem dwells in safety, and from year to year, the people worship Jehovah who is “King over the whole earth.”

                              Concerning this exciting chapter, let us note the following:
                              1. How would one determine that this prophecy has to do with a “millennial reign” of Christ upon the earth? Did Jesus, during his earthly ministry, so interpret it? Did any inspired New Testament writer quote from Zechariah 14, giving it a “dispensational” interpretation? The answer is, “No.” There is no evidence at all that would point this prophecy in the direction of premillennialism.
                                Actually, New Testament writers repeatedly stress that the prophetic thrust of the Old Testament was concerning the salvation of grace (1 Pet. 1:10-11) which burst into bloom with the dawning of the gospel dispensation. Peter affirmed that “all the prophets from Samuel and them that followed after, as many as have spoken, they also told of these days” (Acts 3:24). The “these days” were the days of the Christian age. The dispensational view of Zechariah 14 is arbitrary and without evidential proof.
                              2. A fundamental problem with premillennial theology is its inability to discern the difference between the literal and figurative elements of the Scriptures. Much of the prophecy of Old Testament literature is couched in figurative jargon, and those who do not recognize this principle are doomed to failure in their interpretation of the text. In his classic book, Biblical Hermeneutics, Professor Milton Terry wrote: “A thorough interpretation of the prophetic portions of the holy Scripture is largely dependent upon a mastery of the principles and laws of figurative language, and of types and symbols” (313).
                              1. The Folly of Literalizing Zechariah 14
                              A careful study of Zechariah 14 will reveal that those who attempt to literalize the message of this chapter, as the premillennialists do, are pursuing a disastrous course of interpretation.

                              Consider the following:

                              If this chapter refers to the literal return of Christ (i.e., the Second Coming) upon the mount of Olives, exactly who is it that will make that escape flight to the east when the mountain is cleft? It cannot be the wicked, for the Bible plainly teaches that they will be destroyed when the Lord returns (Mt. 25:31-46; 2 Thes. 1:7-9). Moreover, it cannot be the righteous, for they will be “caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thes. 4:17). Who else, pray tell, is left?
                              1. Verse 8 speaks of living waters going forth from Jerusalem in summer and in winter. Since summer and winter will occur only as long as the earth remains (Gen. 8:22), and as the earth will not remain beyond the Coming of Christ (2 Pet. 3:4,10), it is obvious that the events of this verse cannot transpire after the literal return of Jesus - which supposedly is alluded to in verse 4.
                              2. Verse 12 tells of Jehovah smiting his enemies and their “flesh” being consumed. Again, this cannot refer to a period after the literal return of Christ; the Coming of the Lord will signal “the end,” at which point the dead will be raised, and the living - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye - will be changed from flesh to a new, spiritual essence. We will pass from corruption to incorruption, from mortality to immortality (1 Cor. 15:23-24,51-53).

                              Consequences Resulting from the Dispensational View of Zechariah 14


                              The dispensational view of Zechariah 14 strikes at the very heart of the nature of Christ’s atoning work at the cross.

                              Verses 16 and 21 speak of those who go up to observe the feast of tabernacles, and who offer sacrifices. Again, dispensationalists literalize the language, asserting that Judaism, with all its carnality (cf. Heb. 9:10) and animal blood, will be revived in the “millennial” age. A thoughtful writer focuses upon the weaknesses of this view:
                              “Are these interpreters ready to accept the restoration of the Old Testament feast with its offering of animal sacrifices? During the feast of tabernacles, which began on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, daily offerings of animals were made by fire, 199 animals of all kinds were offered, ‘besides the continual burn-offering, and the meal offerings thereof, and the drink offerings thereof’ (Num. 29:12-38). Among these daily offerings was ‘one he-goat for a sin-offering.’ Jesus is our sin-offering, and if we go back to offering he-goats for sin-offerings we must reject Jesus as a sufficient offering for our sins” (Lanier, 633).

                              The Old Testament law, with its rivers of animal blood, was abolished at the cross (Eph. 2:15-16), hence has been “taken” (erken - in the perfect tense, denoting the permanent abolition of the law of Moses) away for ever (Col. 2:14).

                              Truly, dispensationalism is a Judaistic, materialistic, and infidelic system. (For more information on the implications associated with dispensational premillennialism, see the Feature, Examining Premillennialism - February, 2001.)
                              Conclusion


                              Whatever else the meaning of Zechariah 14 may be, it cannot be harmonized with premillennial theology. Two common views of this remarkable chapter, entertained by non-millennial scholars, are as follows:
                              1. Some hold it to be a symbolic prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, together with a spread of the gospel throughout the Christian age thereafter (cf. Collins, 761-763; Wallace, 246-248).
                              2. The better view, in this writer’s judgment, suggests that the language is a figurative depiction of the history of spiritual “Jerusalem” (the church), from the time of its commencement on the day of Pentecost throughout the Christian age (see Hengstenberg, II.1155-1182; Laetsch, 493-506). Woudstra had a nice summary of the matter.
                                “From the mixed character of the imagery employed, referring now to cataclysmic upheavals, now to regular pilgrimages to Jerusalem, it seems to this writer that no such literal interpretation of the passages is intended. The prophecy has in view various aspects of the gospel age with particular emphasis on its conclusion” (377-378).

                              The millennialist view of Zechariah 14 is to be rejected summarily.


                              SOURCES




                              Collins, G.N.M. (1954), The New Bible Commentary (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans).

                              Freeman, Hobart (1968), An Introduction to the Old Testament Prophets (Chicago: Moody Press).

                              Hengstenberg, E.W. (n.d.), Christology of the Old Testament (Mac Dill, FL: MacDonald Publishing Co., Vol. II).

                              Laetsch, Theo (1956), The Minor Prophets (St. Louis: Concordia).

                              Lanier, Roy H., Sr. (1965), Firm Foundation, October 5.

                              Terry, Milton (1890), Biblical Hermeneutics (New York: Eaton & Mains).

                              Wallace, Foy E., Jr. (1960), God’s Prophetic Word (Oklahoma City: FEW, Jr. Publications).

                              Woudstra, Marten (1960), The Biblical Expositor, Carl F.H. Henry, ed. (Philadelphia: A.J. Holman Co., II).


                              Boyd Wayne Jackson was born at Goodlettsville, Tennessee on August 29, 1937 and later worked with the church in Delta, Colorado for two years. From 1961 until the present he has preached for the East Main Street congregation in Stockton, California. Wayne has an A.A. degree from Stockton College, a B.A. from Sacramento Baptist College and an M.A. from Alabama Christian School of religion. Wayne has written for and edited the Christian Courier since its inception in 1965. He has written more than thirty books on a variety of biblical topics including: The Bible and Science; Creation, Evolution, and the Age of the Earth; and The Bible on Trial. He has written commentaries covering all books of the Bible, including a one-volume commentary on the New Testament.

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