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How are the mortals which are not deceived at the end of the MK made immortal?

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  • How are the mortals which are not deceived at the end of the MK made immortal?

    8
    And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    Now surely he would not deceive everyone in this supposed MK, right? I mean if he were then what was the purpose.

    So then those mortal beings which lived and or were born in this supposed MK would have to then go from the MK to the eternal kingdom. They would have to go from mortal to immortal, corruptible to incorruptible, right?

    So then they would need to be changed...

    50
    Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    51
    Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

    So then how are they changed? Well they are resurrected from the grave. Then the question is how do they die? And then at what resurrection do they come up? I mean the first resurrection has already occurred a supposed 1000 year earlier. So then are they raised at the GWT? Or I guess you could have another false claim of a rapture at the end of the MK however I don't hear anybody claiming there is one.

    But also they problem with the mortals who are not deceived at the MK being changed is that I Corinthians also says it happens a the last trump..are there trumps sounding at the end of the MK?

    Dilemma?


  • #2
    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    8
    And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    Now surely he would not deceive everyone in this supposed MK, right? I mean if he were then what was the purpose.

    So then those mortal beings which lived and or were born in this supposed MK would have to then go from the MK to the eternal kingdom. They would have to go from mortal to immortal, corruptible to incorruptible, right?

    So then they would need to be changed...

    50
    Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    51 [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT="Helvetica Neue"][SIZE=16px]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

    So then how are they changed?
    Same way the saved survivors of the GT are changed.



    But also they problem with the mortals who are not deceived at the MK being changed is that I Corinthians also says it happens a the last trump..are there trumps sounding at the end of the MK?
    The event I Corinthians describes is at the second coming not at the end of the MK. If there are mortals that God wants to become immortal after the MK is over He will simply change them as he did the others.







    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

      If there are mortals that God wants to become immortal after the MK is over He will simply change them as he did the others.
      Well I was showing you how he changed the others and that is I Corinthians.

      To be changed from mortal to immortality one has to be caught up in a twinkling of an eye. So these mortals need to follow this as well. So these saved mortals need to die and then be resurrected to become immortal but the first resurrection has passed so at what resurrection do these folks appear? Where in Rev 20 can we see this? Anywhere for that matter? And if you say they are raptured then show where there is a rapture at the end of the MK!

      Those whom believe in the MK hold that mortals will reign the earth. So it is not "if" there are mortals.



      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ross3421 View Post

        To be changed from mortal to immortality one has to be caught up in a twinkling of an eye.
        That is not correct. Being changed into immortal is completely different than being caught up and you have the twinkling related to the wrong event.


        So these mortals need to follow this as well.
        You are wrong.

        So these saved mortals need to die
        Also wrong.

        Those whom believe in the MK hold that mortals will reign the earth. So it is not "if" there are mortals.
        You didn't read or understand what I said. You are also wrong these unsaved mortals reign the Earth. They are reigned by immortals. They do not reign over anything themselves.







        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

          That is not correct. Being changed into immortal is completely different than being caught up and you have the twinkling related to the wrong event.
          52
          In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised (caught up) incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

          53
          For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

          There is no other way for one to be changed from mortal to immortality whether before or after the MK.

          So agian for the third time I will ask you...where in rev 20 does it show the mortal saved in the MK being changed raised to immortality?


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ross3421 View Post

            52
            In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised (caught up) incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


            53 [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT="Helvetica Neue"][SIZE=16px]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

            There is no other way for one to be changed from mortal to immortality whether before or after the MK.
            There is another way:

            1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


            These ones are alive at the second coming and are changed without ever dying. It is not a resurrection.



            So agian for the third time I will ask you...where in rev 20 does it show the mortal saved in the MK being changed raised to immortality?
            It doesn't exist anywhere in scripture. You have been talking about this in questioning speculation. If there are mortals after the MK that are saved then they will be changed into immortals. No one ever said scripture speaks of this.



            James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
              8


              But also they problem with the mortals who are not deceived at the MK being changed is that I Corinthians also says it happens a the last trump..are there trumps sounding at the end of the MK?

              Dilemma?
              There is no dilemma, the change into immortality can only happen at the Great White Throne Judgement; AFTER the Millennium.
              Only then is the Book of Life opened and those whose names are in it, whether they be dead or still alive; will then receive Eternal life

              We Christians have the Promise; John 3:16, but not the realization until we have proved out faith and trust in God, thru all that must happen from now until the Last Trump. Which cannot be any other time than the final day of Gods Plan for mankind; the 7000 years from Adam to Eternity.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Keraz View Post
                There is no dilemma, the change into immortality can only happen at the Great White Throne Judgement; AFTER the Millennium.
                Only then is the Book of Life opened and those whose names are in it, whether they be dead or still alive; will then receive Eternal life
                For you there is no dilemma because your right if there was a MK then the saved mortals could only be transformed at the GWT.

                However understand most who hold to the MK don't see believers at the GWT those it poses them with a dilemma. You have already seen replies such as.."It never says how they are made immortal", "why should it say" ect….

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                  52
                  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised (caught up) incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
                  No. You put "caught up" for the word "raised".

                  But "raised" refers to "resurrected" [defined as: 'to stand again' on the earth], NOT "caught up [/ harpazo / snatch / raptured / caught away]". Two very distinct things.

                  Resurrection is not rapture/caught up.

                  "The dead in Christ shall RISE [be resurrected] first, THEN [epeita - 'only then'] we which are alive and remain unto... shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER ['caught up' at the same time that they are caught up] with them [in union with them] in the clouds to the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR..."


                  You are conflating "rise [G450] / raised [G1453]" with "rapture / caught up / snatched / harpazo [G726]"... but they are distinct.

                  --"rise" - G450 - 1Th4:16 (said of "the dead in Christ shall RISE [G450] first")
                  --"raised" - G1453 - 1Cor15:52 (said of "THIS corruptible" [in particular!] [vv.53a,54a] where v.52 says "and the dead shall be RAISED [G1453] incorruptible")


                  G450 - "because He was teaching His disciples. He told them, “The Son of Man will be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill Him, and after three days He will rise [G450].” - Mark 9:31

                  G1453 - "And as they were descending from the mountain, Jesus instructed them, saying, "Tell to no one the vision, until the Son of Man is risen [G1453] out from the dead." - Matt17:9


                  In neither of these cases is there a "snatch" up to Heaven being referenced (i.e. 'rapture / harpazo / caught up / caught away' G726), a completely DISTINCT action.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post

                    For you there is no dilemma because your right if there was a MK then the saved mortals could only be transformed at the GWT.

                    However understand most who hold to the MK don't see believers at the GWT those it poses them with a dilemma. You have already seen replies such as.."It never says how they are made immortal", "why should it say" ect….
                    People think there are no believers at the GWT? Read Malachi 3:16-18
                    I am constantly amazed at the weird and wonderful things people believe.

                    There will be a Millennium reign of King Jesus, that is made clear in Rev 20 and in many other scriptures. At the end of it, EVERYONE who has ever lived will stand before God in Judgment.
                    Pretty straightforward, really. It is when people start believing fanciful ideas, like the impossibility of going to live in heaven; that confusion sets in.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE]
                      Originally posted by Keraz View Post

                      People think there are no believers at the GWT? Read Malachi 3:16-18
                      I am constantly amazed at the weird and wonderful things people believe
                      .

                      I agree believers are at the GWT but I do not adhere to a MK. The GWT would occur once Christ returns paralleling Matt 25 goats and sheep.



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post

                        No. You put "caught up" for the word "raised".

                        But "raised" refers to "resurrected" [defined as: 'to stand again' on the earth], NOT "caught up [/ harpazo / snatch / raptured / caught away]". Two very distinct things.

                        Resurrection is not rapture/caught up.

                        "The dead in Christ shall RISE [be resurrected] first, THEN [epeita - 'only then'] we which are alive and remain unto... shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER ['caught up' at the same time that they are caught up] with them [in union with them] in the clouds to the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR..."


                        You are conflating "rise [G450] / raised [G1453]" with "rapture / caught up / snatched / harpazo [G726]"... but they are distinct.

                        --"rise" - G450 - 1Th4:16 (said of "the dead in Christ shall RISE [G450] first")
                        --"raised" - G1453 - 1Cor15:52 (said of "THIS corruptible" [in particular!] [vv.53a,54a] where v.52 says "and the dead shall be RAISED [G1453] incorruptible")


                        G450 - "because He was teaching His disciples. He told them, “The Son of Man will be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill Him, and after three days He will rise [G450].” - Mark 9:31

                        G1453 - "And as they were descending from the mountain, Jesus instructed them, saying, "Tell to no one the vision, until the Son of Man is risen [G1453] out from the dead." - Matt17:9


                        In neither of these cases is there a "snatch" up to Heaven being referenced (i.e. 'rapture / harpazo / caught up / caught away' G726), a completely DISTINCT action.
                        Are you able to answer the OP?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Keraz View Post
                          People think there are no believers at the GWT? Read Malachi 3:16-18
                          I am constantly amazed at the weird and wonderful things people believe.

                          There will be a Millennium reign of King Jesus, that is made clear in Rev 20 and in many other scriptures. At the end of it, EVERYONE who has ever lived will stand before God in Judgment.
                          Pretty straightforward, really. It is when people start believing fanciful ideas, like the impossibility of going to live in heaven; that confusion sets in.
                          The resurrected and raptured saints who already enjoy immortality during the millennium will no longer be judged at the GWTJ.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                            I agree believers are at the GWT but I do not adhere to a MK. The GWT would occur once Christ returns paralleling Matt 25 goats and sheep.
                            The Millennial Kingdom is real. Better believe it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [QUOTE=ross3421;n2718739]
                              .

                              I agree believers are at the GWT but I do not adhere to a MK. The GWT would occur once Christ returns paralleling Matt 25 goats and sheep.
                              This is not how Revelation 20 describes it.
                              The 'goat and sheep' judgment is of the nations. The GWT Judgment is of every person who has ever lived.

                              Comment

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