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What do you think about the AC's 3.5 years and the Witnesses 1260 days?

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  • Discussion What do you think about the AC's 3.5 years and the Witnesses 1260 days?

    This topic was discussed a couple of years ago, but I now believe it requires a revisitation. The idea is to see whether opinions have changed and most importantly, to attract the views of those that missed the first discussion.

    In Rev 11:3, we understand that the duration of the Two Witnesses' ministry will be 1260 days after which they will be killed. Likewise, in Dan 7:25, we learn that the beast/Antichrist's little season will be for a time, times and the dividing of time, ie 3.5 years. Given that 1260 days and 3.5 years are the same, do you believe that the Witnesses' and the AC's time will both run at the same time?

    That is, will the 1260 days and the 3.5 years run concurrently or consecutively?



  • #2
    One problem with them running concurrent, that would have to mean the 2W are made war against, then overcome, then killed, during this period of time and not after this period of time instead. The fact they are not made war against, nor overcome, nor killed, during their testimonies, demands that there has to be another period of time following the period of time they testify, in order to fulfill the making war against them, overcoming them, then killing them. Anyone reading Revelation 13 should note no one is being made war with, nor overcome, nor killed, outside of this 42 month window.

    If these 2 time periods are not running consecutively, that places Revelation 11:7 after the 42 month reign, outside of this 42 month window in the process. Despite any of this, awhile back EWQ did manage to convince that these time period run concurrent, not consecutive. Since I am free to change my mind, I am not longer fully convinced that that is necessarily the case, plus the fact I'm a big believer in having been right to begin with, since there is such a thing as that. But who knows? Maybe EWQ is the one correct here, regardless. Or maybe I was right all along, that the position I was holding until EWQ managed to convince me otherwise, was correct all along. So basically it's anyone's guess as to who might be correct here. I'm not entirely certain anymore myself.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
      This topic was discussed a couple of years ago, but I now believe it requires a revisitation. The idea is to see whether opinions have changed and most importantly, to attract the views of those that missed the first discussion.

      In Rev 11:3, we understand that the duration of the Two Witnesses' ministry will be 1260 days after which they will be killed. Likewise, in Dan 7:25, we learn that the beast/Antichrist's little season will be for a time, times and the dividing of time, ie 3.5 years. Given that 1260 days and 3.5 years are the same, do you believe that the Witnesses' and the AC's time will both run at the same time?

      That is, will the 1260 days and the 3.5 years run concurrently or consecutively?

      To call oneself the Jewish messiah is to call oneself God. The Jewish messiah will confirm the Mosaic covenant and break it after 1260 days. That's why there are the 2 witnesses to the 'crime' of it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Certainly NOT concurrent. Further 1260 days is NOT 3.5 years. It is close, just as it is also similar to 42 months, especially if these are months of 30 days. However we have a period of 1 weekfor the 70th week. This is clearly divided into 2 in Dan 9:27. The first half (or roughly 3.5 years) we have sacrifice occurring, then we have a second half when sacrifice doesn't occur.
        So for me the 2W are clearly in Jerusalem for the 1st half and so sacrifices can occur, but after they are killed then sacrifices are stopped. This is then the final 42 months of the Beast's reign.
        The break in the middle is when the person who will take control of the 10 nation confederation kills the 2W and so shows he is the one to lead, and claims godhood, being able to kill those who no one had previously been able to kill.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by divaD View Post
          One problem with them running concurrent, that would have to mean the 2W are made war against, then overcome, then killed, during this period of time and not after this period of time instead. The fact they are not made war against, nor overcome, nor killed, during their testimonies, demands that there has to be another period of time following the period of time they testify, in order to fulfill the making war against them, overcoming them, then killing them. Anyone reading Revelation 13 should note no one is being made war with, nor overcome, nor killed, outside of this 42 month window.

          If these 2 time periods are not running consecutively, that places Revelation 11:7 after the 42 month reign, outside of this 42 month window in the process. Despite any of this, awhile back EWQ did manage to convince that these time period run concurrent, not consecutive. Since I am free to change my mind, I am not longer fully convinced that that is necessarily the case, plus the fact I'm a big believer in having been right to begin with, since there is such a thing as that. But who knows? Maybe EWQ is the one correct here, regardless. Or maybe I was right all along, that the position I was holding until EWQ managed to convince me otherwise, was correct all along. So basically it's anyone's guess as to who might be correct here. I'm not entirely certain anymore myself.
          For a start, if their times run consecutively then we have 7 years instead of 3.5 years. Scripture says that nobody can make war against them until they finish their ministry, this is understandable if they have to preach the Kingdom of God unhindered. I'm not sure of the point you are making with the attack against them, perhaps you should elaborate to enable me to understand you better?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by blur1 View Post
            To call oneself the Jewish messiah is to call oneself God. The Jewish messiah will confirm the Mosaic covenant and break it after 1260 days. That's why there are the 2 witnesses to the 'crime' of it.
            I'm afraid I have no clue how your post relates to the OP?
            Secondly, I don't know any scholar that believes that it is the Lord that is referenced in Dan 9:27 to confirm a covenant with many for one week.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

              For a start, if their times run consecutively then we have 7 years instead of 3.5 years. Scripture says that nobody can make war against them until they finish their ministry, this is understandable if they have to preach the Kingdom of God unhindered. I'm not sure of the point you are making with the attack against them, perhaps you should elaborate to enable me to understand you better?
              Maybe the following might shed a little more light on the points I was trying to raise.

              Let's assume for a moment, that when the 2W are testifying, this is also when the beast is reigning for 42 months, thus the same period of time is in view rather than one period of time finishes followed by yet another period of time.

              A cpl of things have to be noted here.

              A....And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them (Revelation 13:7)

              B....These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them(Revelation 17:14)


              B can't be meaning during the 42 month reign, because during the 42 month reign A is true instead. Plus we have the following as well...Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?(Revelation 13:4). Obviously, when that question is being asked, it is being asked during it's 42 month reign, and that that question wouldn't even be asked if B is already true.

              We basically have two periods of time in view here, in regards to this 42 month period. During this 42 month period A is true at the time. Following this 42 month period B is then true at the time. That brings us to the following...And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them(Revelation 11:7).

              Where does that fit? During the time of A? Or during the time of B? If it fits during the time of A, the period of time the 2W are testifying can't be the same time the beast is reigning for 42 months. Because according to Revelation 11:7, they would not ultimately be being killed during the 42 month reign of the beast, if, when they are giving their testimonies, they are giving them during the 42 month reign of the beast, but that they are not even killed until after they finish their testimonies. The logic basically being, if the 1260 days are running in parallel with the 42 months, when the 1260 days expire, so do the 42 months. And if they are made war with, etc, after they finish their testimonies, this would indicate that this occurs after the 42 month reign rather than during it instead. It seems to me then, if they are not giving their testimonies during the 42 month reign of the beast, these issues above are then resolved.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

                I'm afraid I have no clue how your post relates to the OP?
                Secondly, I don't know any scholar that believes that it is the Lord that is referenced in Dan 9:27 to confirm a covenant with many for one week.
                He could be meaning the AC, though it's a bit hard to tell from what he wrote.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The two prophets are killed 3.5 days before the beast is defeated at the second coming which obviously means the beasts 42 months ended. That's a concurrent or near concurrent overlapping by 3.5 days.

                  Either the 2w start 3.5 days before the beast starts, or the 3.5 days of being dead still counts as part of their overall 1260 days.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It's an easy association of the 3 woes with the last 3 trumpets, trumpets 5, 6, 7

                    It is at the 6th trumpet/2nd woe that the witnesses exist. Their resurrection occurs at the end of the second woe, which is associated with the great final battle of the 6th trumpet, of an army of 200 million.

                    The 7th trumpet/third woe is the second coming, when “The kingdom of the world has become
                    the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
                    and he will reign for ever and ever.”

                    This is the reason I associate the 2 witnesses with the 3.5 years preceding the second coming, context seems to do so.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                      The two prophets are killed 3.5 days before the beast is defeated at the second coming which obviously means the beasts 42 months ended. That's a concurrent or near concurrent overlapping by 3.5 days.

                      Either the 2w start 3.5 days before the beast starts, or the 3.5 days of being dead still counts as part of their overall 1260 days.
                      Correct! Both periods overlap, except for 3.5 days.

                      It's difficult to regard their 3.5 days of being dead, as part of their 1260 days of prophecy, that is why I see their ministry starting 3.5 days earlier.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                        Secondly, I don't know any scholar that believes that it is the Lord that is referenced in Dan 9:27 to confirm a covenant with many for one week.
                        We don't need "scholars" when the Bible is there to read. Although I did do Bible school, and I do believe it is the Lord referenced to confirm the covenant.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                          This topic was discussed a couple of years ago, but I now believe it requires a revisitation. The idea is to see whether opinions have changed and most importantly, to attract the views of those that missed the first discussion.

                          In Rev 11:3, we understand that the duration of the Two Witnesses' ministry will be 1260 days after which they will be killed. Likewise, in Dan 7:25, we learn that the beast/Antichrist's little season will be for a time, times and the dividing of time, ie 3.5 years. Given that 1260 days and 3.5 years are the same, do you believe that the Witnesses' and the AC's time will both run at the same time?

                          That is, will the 1260 days and the 3.5 years run concurrently or consecutively?

                          The 1335 = the Two-witnesses show up 1335 days BEFORE the Second Coming ends all these wonders {Dan. 12:12} They turn Israel back unto God before the DOTL.

                          The1290 = The False Prophet {Jeewish High Priest} stops Jesus Worship {the Jews have already repented before the DOTL}in the Temple and places an Image of the Beast {E.U. President} in the temple just like Rev. 13 tells us, then demands that all men worship him or die. This is done 1290 days before the Second Coming.

                          The 1260 is the Anti-Christ going forth to Conquer Jerusalem/Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region to become the Beast 1260 days before the Second Coming ends all these wonders.

                          We can see clearly above that the Two-witnesses show up 75 days before the Beast, thus they must die 75 days before the Beast also. This, IMHO, is the only reason they die, God doesn't need them to die per se, but He needed to JUXTAPOSE the "two ordained offices" against one another to give us the clues we need to figure out the timelines. We, therefore, can see that the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe, and the Beast dies at the 7th Vial. They thus run almost concurrently, but not quite.

                          Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet beforethe coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

                          The Day of the Lord is the 1260 event. When Israel gets Conquered. We know that via the Scriptures.

                          Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

                          Then 3.5 years later Jesus lands on Mt Zion to defeat these tyrants.

                          3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

                          Basically it goes like this, the E.U. President/Anti-Christ will reaffirm the deals that are already in place now called the European Neighborhood Policy, they have 7 year Agreements not just with Israel but with Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Palestine, Syria, Tunisia. They pass 15 Billion Euros to these nations, think of the carrot and stick approach. The Anti-Christ will REAFFIRM these Agreements when he comes forth, but he will condition these agreements. {Money and some like Israel want to be a part of the European Union, they already play Football/Soccer in the E.U. Leagues}

                          He rules peaceably for 3.5 years until the Day of the Lord event, which I am convinced is the Rev. 8, Trumps 1-4, the asteroid {Apophis April 13, 2029} that I think wipes out the Pacific Ocean {1/3} and the Americas, especially the USA { 1/3} and this is the cue for the Anti-Christ to go forth conquering while the rest of the world is preoccupied with this devastating impact of the coast of California.

                          But just before all this happens THE BLESSING {1335} happens, the Two-witnesses are sent to turn Israel back unto God, thus they understand that they need to Flee Judea when they see the AoD by this Jewish High Priest {False Prophet who is like unto his TYPE Jason under Antiochus}, he forbids them from worshiping Jesus {takes away the Sacrifice} and places an Abomination in the Temple {the Image of the Anti-Christ}. So, the Jews who repented {1/3} Flee to Petra, but the 2/3 who did not repent remain in Jerusalem, they will be CUT OFF according to Zechariah 13.

                          Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

                          The very next verse is verse 14:1 that says THE DAY OF THE LORD IS COME !!

                          The Anti-Christ then comes on the scene on the Day of the Lord, thus he rules 1260 days. The DOTL is thus 1260 days. The Two-witnesses Ministry as ordained by God is 1260 days. It's all like this for a reason. We can JUXTAPOSE them all against each other. The Two-witnesses show up 75 days BEFORE the Anti-Christ becomes the Beast at the 1260, they, therefore, must die 75 days before the Beast dies at the 7th Vial when Jesus returns.

                          So, all but 75 days of their "TWO ORDAINED OFFICES" overlap each other.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by divaD View Post
                            Maybe the following might shed a little more light on the points I was trying to raise.

                            Let's assume for a moment, that when the 2W are testifying, this is also when the beast is reigning for 42 months, thus the same period of time is in view rather than one period of time finishes followed by yet another period of time.

                            A cpl of things have to be noted here.

                            A....And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them (Revelation 13:7)

                            B....These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them(Revelation 17:14)


                            B can't be meaning during the 42 month reign, because during the 42 month reign A is true instead. Plus we have the following as well...Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?(Revelation 13:4). Obviously, when that question is being asked, it is being asked during it's 42 month reign, and that that question wouldn't even be asked if B is already true.

                            We basically have two periods of time in view here, in regards to this 42 month period. During this 42 month period A is true at the time. Following this 42 month period B is then true at the time. That brings us to the following...And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them(Revelation 11:7).

                            Where does that fit? During the time of A? Or during the time of B? If it fits during the time of A, the period of time the 2W are testifying can't be the same time the beast is reigning for 42 months. Because according to Revelation 11:7, they would not ultimately be being killed during the 42 month reign of the beast, if, when they are giving their testimonies, they are giving them during the 42 month reign of the beast, but that they are not even killed until after they finish their testimonies. The logic basically being, if the 1260 days are running in parallel with the 42 months, when the 1260 days expire, so do the 42 months. And if they are made war with, etc, after they finish their testimonies, this would indicate that this occurs after the 42 month reign rather than during it instead. It seems to me then, if they are not giving their testimonies during the 42 month reign of the beast, these issues above are then resolved.
                            On the contrary, there is no valid reason A-B can't happen at the same time. Bear in mind that life will continue around the world while the Witnesses are in Israel? Secondly, Rev 17 deals with the false religions of the world and their subsequent destruction by the AC.

                            Furthermore, "B" (Rev 17:14) doesn't say they are confronting the Lamb in battle at that particular time, rather it is a reference to Armageddon - that's when they will "make war with the Lamb". I don't see two different times between "A-B". I believe that the time of the 2Ws and that of the beast will overlap, it will not be precisely concurrent, but they will overlap.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by divaD View Post
                              He could be meaning the AC, though it's a bit hard to tell from what he wrote.
                              Is it possible for anyone to confuse the Lord with the AC? I hope you are right that he made a mistake. It'll be interesting to see how he responds.

                              Comment

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