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What do you think about the AC's 3.5 years and the Witnesses 1260 days?

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  • Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

    I have studied Church history for over 15 years and there's no ground for your false claims. You don't seem to understand the Bible and that's the problem.
    What resources have you studied from? If legit, we should agree.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Dave L View Post
      aIt happened during the original Roman Empire. The Pharisees and most today missed it, looking for a physical kingdom instead of spiritual.
      Nope. The last kingdom headed by Jesus Christ will commence after his return. It did not start during the time of Rome.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dave L View Post
        “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (NCPB)

        I.e., you must be born again before you can understand spiritual things. The born again hear the true gospel. The natural person hears only a false gospel even though it's the same gospel.
        I give up, you seem to be a fruit-cake. I asked you to elaborate on your argument and you claim I need divine discernment.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

          I give up, you seem to be a fruit-cake. I asked you to elaborate on your argument and you claim I need divine discernment.
          History cannot change. If we both study from trusted resources, we will agree.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dave L View Post
            Scripture does not teach any form of millennialism. You must twist scripture forcing it to. Or re-write scripture to claim it.
            These scriptures clearly confirm that a literal thousand years will follow the return of Jesus Christ:

            Rev 20:1-3
            Rev 20:5-6
            Rev 20:7

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

              These scriptures clearly confirm that a literal thousand years will follow the return of Jesus Christ:

              Rev 20:1-3
              Rev 20:5-6
              Rev 20:7
              Is it a literal red dragon? a literal chain binding a serpent who is the devil? Learn to discern between symbols and literal.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dave L View Post


                Prove there is a physical kingdom by Jesus' words. It is spiritual only.

                Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:
                Daniel said; “And in the days of these kings [Old Roman Empire] shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” Daniel 2:44 (NCPB)

                “And [Jesus] saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)
                “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)
                “Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)
                “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)
                “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)
                “Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)
                “Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)
                “And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)
                “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)
                “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)
                “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” Luke 16:16 (KJV 1900)
                “because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)
                “Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)
                “He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)
                When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)
                “for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)
                “I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.” Revelation 1:9 (NASB95)
                “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” Acts 8:12 (KJV 1900)
                “That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.” 1 Thessalonians 2:12 (KJV 1900)
                “And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.” Acts 19:8 (KJV 1900)
                “And when thy days [David] be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.” 2 Samuel 7:12–13 (KJV 1900)

                “who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son,” Colossians 1:13 (NCPB)
                “For the kingdom is the LORD’s: and he is the governor among the nations.” Psalm 22:28 (NCPB)
                Jesus will set up a literal kingdom on earth when he returns. I have provided scriptures on this in previous posts.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                  I do NOT concede they are parallel. They cover some of the same information and are related, but they are NOT parallel.
                  Also Babylon is NOT one of the four beasts in Dan 7. They are mentioned but NOT as one of the beasts which WILL arise.
                  My mind is made up on both these points.
                  There is NO Logic in claiming they are parallel, as they are given to different people separated by a gap of 50 years, with a different purpose and focus.
                  Dan 2 is about what happens to the Babylonian Kingdom, and the Dominion of Man UNTIL the Dominion of God.
                  Dan 7 is about what happens to the Jews, and what happens to them UNTIL the judgement (and its result).
                  I see there's no way of getting through to you. So, I wish you luck.

                  The conjecture that Babylon is the first beast dates back to Augustine. I don't follow his teachings. I prefer to follow what is actually WRITTEN in scripture and NOT the teaching of a man - especially that numpty!
                  My position is based on what the scripture says, not on a man's view.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                    What resources have you studied from? If legit, we should agree.
                    The evidence of my studies are reflected in my views.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                      Is it a literal red dragon? a literal chain binding a serpent who is the devil? Learn to discern between symbols and literal.
                      Unfortunately, you are not asking the right questions.
                      • What is literal is that 1000 years will start after the Lord returns.
                      • Satan will be literally detained in the bottomless pit for 1000 years after Armageddon.
                      • A thousand years will separate the resurrection of the church and the wicked (Rev 20:5)
                      • The Throne Judgment will occur at the END of the thousand years (Rev 20:11).

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by divaD View Post

                        Maybe the following might shed a little more light on the points I was trying to raise.

                        Let's assume for a moment, that when the 2W are testifying, this is also when the beast is reigning for 42 months, thus the same period of time is in view rather than one period of time finishes followed by yet another period of time.

                        A cpl of things have to be noted here.

                        A....And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them (Revelation 13:7)

                        B....These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them(Revelation 17:14)


                        B can't be meaning during the 42 month reign, because during the 42 month reign A is true instead. Plus we have the following as well...Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?(Revelation 13:4). Obviously, when that question is being asked, it is being asked during it's 42 month reign, and that that question wouldn't even be asked if B is already true.

                        We basically have two periods of time in view here, in regards to this 42 month period. During this 42 month period A is true at the time. Following this 42 month period B is then true at the time. That brings us to the following...And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them(Revelation 11:7).

                        Where does that fit? During the time of A? Or during the time of B? If it fits during the time of A, the period of time the 2W are testifying can't be the same time the beast is reigning for 42 months. Because according to Revelation 11:7, they would not ultimately be being killed during the 42 month reign of the beast, if, when they are giving their testimonies, they are giving them during the 42 month reign of the beast, but that they are not even killed until after they finish their testimonies. The logic basically being, if the 1260 days are running in parallel with the 42 months, when the 1260 days expire, so do the 42 months. And if they are made war with, etc, after they finish their testimonies, this would indicate that this occurs after the 42 month reign rather than during it instead. It seems to me then, if they are not giving their testimonies during the 42 month reign of the beast, these issues above are then resolved.
                        The 42 months starts when Satan and the FP overcome Jerusalem and "take over". They take over in the middle of the Second Coming week of Celebration. The saints are not killed. The ceremony stops and is postponed for 42 months.

                        The 7th Trumpet starts some time prior to the 8 day Celebration week, Sunday to the following Sunday. It is also the point where Satan is cast from the throne of God. Once again mid week Satan and Jesus Christ face off. God allows Satan this small victory.

                        Only 2 male witnesses are "left behind" to be a thorn in Satan's side. 42 months later, the last 3.5 days begin and the Celebration week finishes. While the 3.5 days the 2 witnesses lay unburried, the 7 vials are poured out. On Sunday for one hour, all on earth, kings, kingdoms, and all humanity join Satan and the FP at the battle of Armageddon.

                        No time contradictions because this 3.5 years, 42 months, and 1260 days, is the only part of Daniel's week John actually points out as definite. The years leading up to this 42 months is the time God shortens. If God had shortened the 42 months, John would have given us the length of it after the change. What John does not give is the length of the 7 seals, 6 Trumpets, and 7 Thunders. So no one has the authority to specify 3.5 years before the 42 months given to Satan. The other obvious reason is no one can know when the Second Coming/rapture can happen. No one can know when the seals start. Probably not even after they start. Any mapping of history is just human imagination. Only after it happens will it dawn on people.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

                          Unfortunately, you are not asking the right questions.
                          • What is literal is that 1000 years will start after the Lord returns.
                          • Satan will be literally detained in the bottomless pit for 1000 years after Armageddon.
                          • A thousand years will separate the resurrection of the church and the wicked (Rev 20:5)
                          • The Throne Judgment will occur at the END of the thousand years (Rev 20:11).
                          You missed it. It happened as Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom but you and the Pharisees missed it. You still look for a physical kingdom that will never be.

                          “But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.” Luke 11:20 (NCPB)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

                            The evidence of my studies are reflected in my views.
                            Do you have any accredited degrees in Bible? If you do, where from?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

                              Jesus will set up a literal kingdom on earth when he returns. I have provided scriptures on this in previous posts.
                              He will create the New Heavens and Earth that lasts forever as the kingdom. But we cannot say it is physical. It will be rather suited to our glorified spiritual bodies.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                                My position is based on what the scripture says, not on a man's view.
                                IF it was based on scripture THEN you would NOT conclude the 4th beast is Rome. It is a TRADITION of MAN dating back to Augustine (and even before) that the 4th beast is Rome.
                                Nothing IN scripture says the 4th beast is Rome, which is WHY I disagree with your view.

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