Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The tree/water of Life in eternity is for the offspring of the remnant of Israel

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The tree/water of Life in eternity is for the offspring of the remnant of Israel

    1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    First off why is there a need for a river of life and the leaves thereof for healing if all in eternity are immortal? Well then all in eternity must not be immortal. How is this possible?

    Let's review the verse and we see that there are 12 yes twelve manner of fruits. This can only be a representation of the twelve tribes of Israel.

    12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

    Next we see supporting this idea is that there are 12 gates to the city each of a tribe of Israel. Scripture references especially EZ 45-48 that Israel per covenant promise will live surrounding the city. Makes sense then the city has 12 gates of the tribes of Israel and that there are 12 fruits. I cant fathom how many and current teachings claim Israel will not exist apart from the church in eternity. Now why do they still need the river and tree of life?

    The remnant of Israel to be multiplied in eternity.

    EZ 37
    25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

    26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

    So then the offspring of the initial remnant must be the ones which are in need of the tree/water of life. They must be born in eternity not immortal but mortal. Much like those you think procreation occurs in the 1000 years but instead it's eternity.

    So we have Israel procreating and living outside and surrounding the city. We have the city with 12 gates of these tribes. We have a tree of life with 12 manner of fruits. So the only conclusion is that these offspring will nee to partake to continue to live. The following verse sums it up. Those doing the commandments are Israel, those living outside the gates are Israel. Those needing the tree are not the saints but Israel.

    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


    The saints (bride) are the ones in eternity which are asking those outside the city to come......

    17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
    1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    First off why is there a need for a river of life and the leaves thereof for healing if all in eternity are immortal? Well then all in eternity must not be immortal. How is this possible?

    Let's review the verse and we see that there are 12 yes twelve manner of fruits. This can only be a representation of the twelve tribes of Israel.

    12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

    Next we see supporting this idea is that there are 12 gates to the city each of a tribe of Israel. Scripture references especially EZ 45-48 that Israel per covenant promise will live surrounding the city. Makes sense then the city has 12 gates of the tribes of Israel and that there are 12 fruits. I cant fathom how many and current teachings claim Israel will not exist apart from the church in eternity. Now why do they still need the river and tree of life?

    The remnant of Israel to be multiplied in eternity.
    Well that doesn't make sense at all to me...how would they multiply?

    Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.





    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by kyCyd View Post

      Well that doesn't make sense at all to me...how would they multiply?

      Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.




      Well don't interpret scripture by using your logic. Scripture clearly states those of Israel multiply.

      26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

      So then the text you quoted must mean something else..... now it only says marriage not procreate I understand the assumption being made.

      The offspring of the remnant of Israel are not part of the resurrection as they are procreated afterwards. Now the question is the initial remnant immortal in eternity? I want to say yes but perhaps not. If they are immortal can they have offspring to start off eternity? Still some open questions, but it is clear Israel is multiplied in eternity so perhaps we don't have all the answer on how God does things according to his will. The remnant is special and special rules may apply per past covenants.

      Comment


      • #4
        There are zero mortals in the age of eternity and there is no procreation.
        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
          There are zero mortals in the age of eternity and there is no procreation.
          y do people need to partake in the river/tree of life? Why are the leaves for medicine? What do you think then EZ 37 speaks of when it is says multiply and children's children?

          Comment


          • #6
            y do people need to partake in the river/tree of life? Why are the leaves for medicine?
            God doesn't explain that. We will only understand it when we are there.

            What do you think then EZ 37 speaks of when it is says multiply and children's children?
            That's not the eternity so it isn't relevant.
            James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

              God doesn't explain that. We will only understand it when we are there.
              Convenient answer when it does not align with what your beliefs are.....

              2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

              It says they are for the healing of the nations. One only needs healing if they are sick.




              That's not the eternity so it isn't relevant.
              21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

              22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

              23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

              24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

              25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David


              Clearly it speaks of eternity, I know this goes against what you have been taught and subscribe so you deny scriptures.

              Comment


              • #8
                It says they are for the healing of the nations. One only needs healing if they are sick.

                That's based on your current limited human understanding. Healing may be something completely different in the eternity.




                Clearly it speaks of eternity, I know this goes against what you have been taught and subscribe so you deny scriptures.

                I deny your interpretation. Living in a land forever doesn't equal being able to always have children forever. The NT forbids any possibility of child birth.

                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                  2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

                  It says they are for the healing of the nations. One only needs healing if they are sick.
                  This is speaking of DURING the MK.

                  21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
                  22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
                  23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
                  24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
                  25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David

                  Clearly it speaks of eternity, I know this goes against what you have been taught and subscribe so you deny scriptures.
                  I am not sure it is speaking of eternity. I think it is speaking of the Millennium Kingdom. However the dwelling in the land is for eternity.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                    This is speaking of DURING the MK.
                    If this is the case then the MK would start off with a NHNE....

                    Rev 21
                    1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

                    And if the case then all of rev 21 and rev 22 would be related to the MK?

                    Is this what you believe? That eternity is not in view in those chapters?



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                      If this is the case then the MK would start off with a NHNE....
                      Rev 21
                      1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
                      And if the case then all of rev 21 and rev 22 would be related to the MK?
                      Is this what you believe? That eternity is not in view in those chapters?
                      The MK does indeed START with a NHNE.
                      Take the example of Noah.
                      There is a flood and the Old Earth is destroyed (though it remains the planet earth).
                      Then the flood ends and Noah disembarks on the New Earth.
                      We are repeatedly told there is a similarity between the flood and with what will happen when Jesus returns.
                      An additional difference is that there is also a change in the heavens - which I understand to mean the principalities and powers, and for Satan getting finally removed from heaven.
                      So there is an NHNE at the START of the MK.
                      Additionally this then means Isa 65 & 66 which ALSO speaks of the NHNE then ties into your point about people multiplying.
                      Isa 65:17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
                      Isa 65:18 But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy, and her people to be a gladness.
                      Isa 65:19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.
                      Isa 65:20 No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
                      Isa 65:21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
                      Isa 65:22 They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
                      Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain or bear children for calamity, for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the LORD, and their descendants with them.

                      Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain.

                      Now, your question about Rev 21 & 22 are indeed about the SAME thing as stated in Isa 65.
                      Compare this with the above:
                      Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
                      Rev 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.

                      I do not therefore see Rev 21 & 22 as the picture of eternity, but as the picture of the MK.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                        The MK does indeed START with a NHNE.

                        I do not therefore see Rev 21 & 22 as the picture of eternity, but as the picture of the MK.
                        If you believe that the MK starts with NHNE then how do you reconcile the wicked being resurrected and judged after the MK a 1000 years later?

                        As clearly the GWT is before the NHNE.



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                          If you believe that the MK starts with NHNE then how do you reconcile the wicked being resurrected and judged after the MK a 1000 years later?
                          As clearly the GWT is before the NHNE.
                          Why do you think the GWToJ is before the NHNE?
                          Rev 20 is before Rev 21, but what we have in Revelation is an explanation and then the details.
                          We see this in Rev 1 before the 7 letters to the churches, in 4 & 5 before the 7 seals, in 8 before the 7 trumpets and 15 before the 7 vials. Rev 20 is simply explaining from His Return TO the final triumph is completed, then Rev 21 and 22 give details of the MK and what the NJ will be like.
                          You can read John 20 which also seems to be the end of the gospel, but then there is John 21 which tells us things which are before that ending.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                            Why do you think the GWToJ is before the NHNE?
                            Notice what happens at the NHNE.....the "works" also therein are burned up. Then how could anybody be judged later according to their works? They can't thus the GWT MUST be before the NHNE.


                            NHNE

                            10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

                            GWT

                            13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


                            So GWT then the NHNE.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                              Notice what happens at the NHNE.....the "works" also therein are burned up. Then how could anybody be judged later according to their works? They can't thus the GWT MUST be before the NHNE.

                              NHNE
                              10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

                              GWT
                              13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

                              So GWT then the NHNE.
                              Don't follow your logic.
                              The GWToJ is of everybody who has died.
                              Therefore their works are in the PAST.
                              Somebody who died 4,000 years ago, someone who died 1,000 years ago and someone who dies today are ALL at that judgement.
                              What happens at the NHNE makes ZERO difference to the works ALREADY done and for which someone is judged.

                              Moreover the MK is the Day of the Lord, and comes like a thief, but many would argue lasts a thousand years.
                              The works done on the earth are indeed burnt up, but any other works done on the NE won't be.

                              The GWToJ follows the MK.
                              This is a CLEAR FACT.
                              The NHNE however is the START of the MK, for that is when Jesus comes.
                              This is also CLEAR.
                              Therefore the GWToJ follows the MK. Your verses don't provide any contradiction to that.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X