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  • Discussion Jesus teaches two different resurrections

    John 5:24-29
    24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

    28 “Do no be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

    In verse 25 Jesus teaches that a time was coming and had now come (the first advent) when the ones who will hear His voice will live. Jesus is teaching here that the only the saved ones will rise and live.

    In verses 28-29 Jesus teaches that a different distant time will come (the second advent) and this time both the saved and the unsaved will bodily rise and the saved will live and the unsaved will be condemned.

    This shows that the first resurrection was only spiritual and that they rose and reigned with Jesus in His kingdom at the first advent for they had crossed from death to life even when their body died.

  • #2
    Originally posted by marty fox View Post
    John 5:24-29
    24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

    28 “Do no be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

    In verse 25 Jesus teaches that a time was coming and had now come (the first advent) when the ones who will hear His voice will live. Jesus is teaching here that the only the saved ones will rise and live.

    In verses 28-29 Jesus teaches that a different distant time will come (the second advent) and this time both the saved and the unsaved will bodily rise and the saved will live and the unsaved will be condemned.

    This shows that the first resurrection was only spiritual and that they rose and reigned with Jesus in His kingdom at the first advent for they had crossed from death to life even when their body died.
    I understand that on the same day, the resurrection of believers happens. Then the rapture, followed by the resurrection of the wicked and the end of the world.

    “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” John 5:25–29 (KJV 1900)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
      John 5:24-29
      24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
      28 “Do no be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
      In verse 25 Jesus teaches that a time was coming and had now come (the first advent) when the ones who will hear His voice will live. Jesus is teaching here that the only the saved ones will rise and live.
      In verses 28-29 Jesus teaches that a different distant time will come (the second advent) and this time both the saved and the unsaved will bodily rise and the saved will live and the unsaved will be condemned.
      This shows that the first resurrection was only spiritual and that they rose and reigned with Jesus in His kingdom at the first advent for they had crossed from death to life even when their body died.
      I get your reasoning, and it is logical, and is contextual.
      So why do I disagree with you?
      For three reasons:
      1) As Dave L notes there MUST be TWO resurrections - one of believers and one of the wicked. Now you may argue that because one follows the other one the SAME day that they are ONE resurrection. However this is a FALSE premise, because ONE resurrection is NOT for judgement, whilst the other resurrection IS. BOTH good and evil are raised for the GWToJ.
      2) Those who live in verse 25 clearly do NOT take part in the resurrection in verse 28, for as it says they will not be judged.
      Now those in verse 25 also die, for John and Peter and Paul have ALL died. However they also ALL will be resurrected when Jesus returns, as noted in 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15.
      3) You claim that the resurrection for judgement is when Jesus returns, but these verses do NOT support that contention. In fact these verses SEPARATE out the TWO groups, which is what you have CORRECTLY done. However you then failed to follow through what he implications of this are.

      You see those who REMAIN in the graves are the ones spoken of as "the rest of the dead" in Rev 20, and are resurrected AFTER the 1,000 years.
      Who then are the ones resurrected at the START of the 1,000 years? This is clearly those who hear His voice and have passed from death to life.
      Yet the ENTIRETY of the 1,000 years occurs between the one group and the other. There is NOT multiple resurrections of individuals DURING the 1,000 years, which is what AMil requires. No the scripture is clear that there is ONE resurrection at the START of the 1,000 years and another at the END.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Dave L View Post

        I understand that on the same day, the resurrection of believers happens. Then the rapture, followed by the resurrection of the wicked and the end of the world.

        “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” John 5:25–29 (KJV 1900)
        If you reread the OP you will see that Jesus stated two different times of resurrections one "now was" and one "is coming" and only one included the body on the resurrection day.

        Again Jesus said that the first one "now was" as in during the first advent
        Last edited by marty fox; Oct 21 2020, 04:17 PM. Reason: added info

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
          I get your reasoning, and it is logical, and is contextual.
          So why do I disagree with you?
          For three reasons:
          1) As Dave L notes there MUST be TWO resurrections - one of believers and one of the wicked. Now you may argue that because one follows the other one the SAME day that they are ONE resurrection. However this is a FALSE premise, because ONE resurrection is NOT for judgement, whilst the other resurrection IS. BOTH good and evil are raised for the GWToJ.
          2) Those who live in verse 25 clearly do NOT take part in the resurrection in verse 28, for as it says they will not be judged.
          Now those in verse 25 also die, for John and Peter and Paul have ALL died. However they also ALL will be resurrected when Jesus returns, as noted in 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15.
          3) You claim that the resurrection for judgement is when Jesus returns, but these verses do NOT support that contention. In fact these verses SEPARATE out the TWO groups, which is what you have CORRECTLY done. However you then failed to follow through what he implications of this are.

          You see those who REMAIN in the graves are the ones spoken of as "the rest of the dead" in Rev 20, and are resurrected AFTER the 1,000 years.
          Who then are the ones resurrected at the START of the 1,000 years? This is clearly those who hear His voice and have passed from death to life.
          Yet the ENTIRETY of the 1,000 years occurs between the one group and the other. There is NOT multiple resurrections of individuals DURING the 1,000 years, which is what AMil requires. No the scripture is clear that there is ONE resurrection at the START of the 1,000 years and another at the END.
          If you reread my OP or my reply to Dave L you will see that I already answered most of this.

          The main thing Jesus said was "Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live"

          This proves that it started back at the first advent and must keep happening when each believer dies. We are raised spiritually

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by marty fox View Post

            If you reread the OP you will see that Jesus stated two different times of resurrections one "now was" and one "is coming" and only one included the body on the resurrection day.

            Again Jesus said that the first one "now was" as in during the first advent
            Both resurrections happen in the last hour.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dave L View Post

              Both resurrections happen in the last hour.
              Just saying a statement is a point of view it needs to be backed by scripture.

              I posted the scripture showing that one resurrection had come and a different resurrection would be on the last day.

              The first resurrection would be spiritual and the second bodily

              Romans 8:11
              And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.


              Ephesians 2:4-6
              4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
              5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
              6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

              Colossians 3:1
              Since, then, you have been raised with Christ,
              set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God


              Notice that Paul speaks in present and past tense?

              Comment


              • #8
                "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

                This proves the dead do not resurrect at the same time. There is a period of time inbetween. This is a Premill concept. Amill claims the dead all resurrect at the same time which is scripturally impossible due to the above.





                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                  If you reread the OP you will see that Jesus stated two different times of resurrections one "now was" and one "is coming" and only one included the body on the resurrection day.

                  Again Jesus said that the first one "now was" as in during the first advent
                  Amen Marty.
                  One must first partake of the Spiritual one that now is if he is to be blessed when the bodily one takes place at the end of the age.
                  At that particular hour when Jesus utters his voice, we will see either a bodily glorification or a second death for those who rejected the truth during the age of Gospel grace.
                  And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                    Both resurrections happen in the last hour.
                    Both happen when Jesus utters his voice when that last hour comes. All in the tomb will hear him and come forth.
                    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                      "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

                      This proves the dead do not resurrect at the same time. There is a period of time inbetween. This is a Premill concept. Amill claims the dead all resurrect at the same time which is scripturally impossible due to the above.
                      Of course they don’t resurrect at the same time in this sense that’s the point of the OP.

                      The saints raise spiritually when saved and then moments before the unsaved bodily at the end of our world

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                      • #12
                        The saints raise spiritually when saved and then moments before the unsaved bodily at the end of our world
                        That happens when they are alive. Revelation 20 is talking about what happens after physical death which is a resurrection from the dead back to life.

                        There are two resurrections of large groups of people.

                        The first one happens before the thousand years begins at the second coming. Revelation 20:4 focuses on one smaller group but all the dead in Christ resurrect at the same time. This is known as the first resurrection.


                        The second group to resurrect is "the rest of the dead lived not until the end of the thousand years". That's when the second group of the dead resurrect.

                        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                          That happens when they are alive. Revelation 20 is talking about what happens after physical death which is a resurrection from the dead back to life.

                          There are two resurrections of large groups of people.

                          The first one happens before the thousand years begins at the second coming. Revelation 20:4 focuses on one smaller group but all the dead in Christ resurrect at the same time. This is known as the first resurrection.


                          The second group to resurrect is "the rest of the dead lived not until the end of the thousand years". That's when the second group of the dead resurrect.
                          So what did Jesus mean when He said “ 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.”?

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                          • #14
                            So what did Jesus mean when He said “ 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.”?
                            That is speaking of a spiritual resurrection. That happens when one is still alive. The resurrection in Revelation 20:4 is a physical resurrection after the people had died.

                            The spiritual resurrection happens BEFORE physical death.

                            The physical resurrection happens AFTER physical death.


                            Revelation 20:4 has beheaded saints going from being dead to being alive and that can only be a physical resurrection. The rest of the dead do not resurrect until a thousand years later proving Premill's claim of two resurrections separated by the thousand years.
                            James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                              That is speaking of a spiritual resurrection. That happens when one is still alive. The resurrection in Revelation 20:4 is a physical resurrection after the people had died.

                              The spiritual resurrection happens BEFORE physical death.

                              The physical resurrection happens AFTER physical death.


                              Revelation 20:4 has beheaded saints going from being dead to being alive and that can only be a physical resurrection. The rest of the dead do not resurrect until a thousand years later proving Premill's claim of two resurrections separated by the thousand years.
                              Yes it is a spiritual resurrection but all I believe revelation 20:4 is saying is that they still reign even after death

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