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Does the Sheep and Goats Judgment correspond to Rev. 19:20?

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  • Does the Sheep and Goats Judgment correspond to Rev. 19:20?

    Revelation 19:20 WEB The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

    A few points seem to match between this verse and the Sheep and Goats judgment in Matthew 25:31-46.

    1) Both take place at Jesus' Second Coming
    2) There are two groups gathered together: saints from all nations; armies from all nations
    3) The saints will inherit the kingdom
    4) The beast (many people, not just the antichrist) is thrown into the lake of fire.

    If this is correct, there are two other possible ideas:

    5) The "rest" that were killed in Revelation 19:21 were killed in battle first while those in Revelation 19:20 were captured alive.
    6) The Sheep and Goats judgment excludes survivors from the nations who stayed home and did not gather in the land of Israel (Zechariah 14:16).

    Does this interpretation work?

  • #2
    Originally posted by greenonions View Post
    Revelation 19:20 WEB The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

    A few points seem to match between this verse and the Sheep and Goats judgment in Matthew 25:31-46.

    1) Both take place at Jesus' Second Coming
    2) There are two groups gathered together: saints from all nations; armies from all nations
    3) The saints will inherit the kingdom
    4) The beast (many people, not just the antichrist) is thrown into the lake of fire.

    If this is correct, there are two other possible ideas:

    5) The "rest" that were killed in Revelation 19:21 were killed in battle first while those in Revelation 19:20 were captured alive.
    6) The Sheep and Goats judgment excludes survivors from the nations who stayed home and did not gather in the land of Israel (Zechariah 14:16).

    Does this interpretation work?
    Armageddon is a spiritual battle between the saints and Satan's followers when no longer bound. Paul says the weapons of our warfare are not carnal. It probably works with this adjustment.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by greenonions View Post
      Revelation 19:20 WEB The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

      A few points seem to match between this verse and the Sheep and Goats judgment in Matthew 25:31-46.

      1) Both take place at Jesus' Second Coming
      2) There are two groups gathered together: saints from all nations; armies from all nations
      3) The saints will inherit the kingdom
      4) The beast (many people, not just the antichrist) is thrown into the lake of fire.

      If this is correct, there are two other possible ideas:

      5) The "rest" that were killed in Revelation 19:21 were killed in battle first while those in Revelation 19:20 were captured alive.
      6) The Sheep and Goats judgment excludes survivors from the nations who stayed home and did not gather in the land of Israel (Zechariah 14:16).

      Does this interpretation work?
      I believe this interpretation works and I think it is correct. Bear in mind, the "sheep" and "goats" are living people. The resurrection of the dead hasn't taken place yet.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by greenonions View Post
        Revelation 19:20 WEB The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
        A few points seem to match between this verse and the Sheep and Goats judgment in Matthew 25:31-46.
        1) Both take place at Jesus' Second Coming
        2) There are two groups gathered together: saints from all nations; armies from all nations
        3) The saints will inherit the kingdom
        4) The beast (many people, not just the antichrist) is thrown into the lake of fire.
        If this is correct, there are two other possible ideas:
        5) The "rest" that were killed in Revelation 19:21 were killed in battle first while those in Revelation 19:20 were captured alive.
        6) The Sheep and Goats judgment excludes survivors from the nations who stayed home and did not gather in the land of Israel (Zechariah 14:16).
        Does this interpretation work?
        It is an interesting idea, however I don't think it fits for the following reasons:
        1) The Sheep and Goats (S&G) is not at the moment of Jesus' return but at some point in time after that. Now if you introduce a delay after the battle, then this itself is not an issue.
        2) There are no saints from all nations at Armageddon. There are those who have already been resurrected and are with Christ and there are those who have taken the Mark. Those with the Mark are killed, no judgement required as they took the Mark and fought with the Beast.
        3) This is true, but we will already have been transformed.
        4) I don't think it refers to many people here for it says the two of them in verse 20.
        5) The rest speaks of everyone other than these two.
        6) The S&G doesn't exclude survivors from the nations.

        The question to ask is what is the S&G judgement about?
        Is it about judgement for eternal life?
        If so then why is it separate from the GWToJ?
        If not then what is it about?
        I do not read the S&G to be about eternal life per se but rather about gaining entry to the kingdom (which then gives eternal life).
        I tie it into the point made in Rev 21:24 - 27 and 22:14 & 15.
        It is about the MK and the end of the Dominion of Man (the Kingdoms of Man as noted in Dan 2 & 7).
        It is solely a judgement of the living, and is about how people treated God's people DURING the GT in particular.
        It also then ties into these verses:
        Mat 10:40 “Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me.
        Mat 10:41 The one who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and the one who receives a righteous person because he is a righteous person will receive a righteous person's reward.
        Mat 10:42 And whoever gives one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.”

        Hope you see the difference.

        Comment


        • #5
          Revelation 19:20 WEB The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

          A few points seem to match between this verse and the Sheep and Goats judgment in Matthew 25:31-46.

          1) Both take place at Jesus' Second Coming

          Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
          Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:


          The sheep and goats are mixed together which is why they have to be separated. That isn't the case at Armageddon where the two armies are already separate and do not mix and this do not need to be separated.


          Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

          When does the devil go into this fire? At the second coming/Armageddon? No. Satan isn't in that fire until just before the GWTJ starts which is when the goats will be judged and cast into that same fire.




          5) The "rest" that were killed in Revelation 19:21 were killed in battle first while those in Revelation 19:20 were captured alive.
          6) The Sheep and Goats judgment excludes survivors from the nations who stayed home and did not gather in the land of Israel (Zechariah 14:16).

          Does this interpretation work?
          No because the goats being cast into fire is long after the battle of Armageddon plus there is no one excluded from the Sheep and Goats judgment. Either you are a sheep and you live forever, or you are a goat and you are cast into the LOF.


          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by greenonions View Post
            Revelation 19:20 WEB The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

            A few points seem to match between this verse and the Sheep and Goats judgment in Matthew 25:31-46.

            1) Both take place at Jesus' Second Coming
            2) There are two groups gathered together: saints from all nations; armies from all nations
            3) The saints will inherit the kingdom
            4) The beast (many people, not just the antichrist) is thrown into the lake of fire.

            If this is correct, there are two other possible ideas:

            5) The "rest" that were killed in Revelation 19:21 were killed in battle first while those in Revelation 19:20 were captured alive.
            6) The Sheep and Goats judgment excludes survivors from the nations who stayed home and did not gather in the land of Israel (Zechariah 14:16).

            Does this interpretation work?
            No.
            The sheep and goat judgment is clearly the GWT judgment . Saints inherit the Kingdom that was prepared from the foundation of the world , which refers to the pristine NHNE. Jesus was correct when he said that this OHOE will pass away at his coming.

            The ungodly are thrown into the fire at the GWT and not before. The opening of the book of life makes it official and at the same time reveals the sons of God who inherit the NHNE.
            Jesus was correct ( believe it or not ) to say that this occurs at his coming also.
            And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by greenonions View Post
              Revelation 19:20 WEB The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

              A few points seem to match between this verse and the Sheep and Goats judgment in Matthew 25:31-46.

              1) Both take place at Jesus' Second Coming
              2) There are two groups gathered together: saints from all nations; armies from all nations
              3) The saints will inherit the kingdom
              4) The beast (many people, not just the antichrist) is thrown into the lake of fire.

              If this is correct, there are two other possible ideas:

              5) The "rest" that were killed in Revelation 19:21 were killed in battle first while those in Revelation 19:20 were captured alive.
              6) The Sheep and Goats judgment excludes survivors from the nations who stayed home and did not gather in the land of Israel (Zechariah 14:16).

              Does this interpretation work?
              I've always had a hard time figuring this out! My thought is that the Son of Man will do this not at the precise day of his Coming, but rather, at the end of the Millennium. But I don't really know.
              Last edited by randyk; Nov 5 2020, 03:59 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

                No.
                The sheep and goat judgment is clearly the GWT judgment . Saints inherit the Kingdom that was prepared from the foundation of the world , which refers to the pristine NHNE. Jesus was correct when he said that this OHOE will pass away at his coming.

                The ungodly are thrown into the fire at the GWT and not before. The opening of the book of life makes it official and at the same time reveals the sons of God who inherit the NHNE.
                Jesus was correct ( believe it or not ) to say that this occurs at his coming also.
                I agree it’s at the GWTJ in revelation 20

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jesus was correct ( believe it or not ) to say that this occurs at his coming also.
                  In both Premill and Amill the GWTJ happens AFTER the second coming not at or during it. Jesus never said it happens at his second coming either.



                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                    In both Premill and Amill the GWTJ happens AFTER the second coming not at or during it.
                    You have lost me. Please explain.


                    Jesus never said it happens at his second coming either.

                    He did in Matt 25. He said when he comes he will deal with one group over there and the other group over here.

                    Both groups find either their eternal rest or eternal despair.

                    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You have lost me. Please explain.
                      Amill places the second coming at Rev 20:9 and the GWTJ is AFTER that in Rev 20:11-15.



                      He did in Matt 25. He said when he comes he will deal with one group over there and the other group over here.

                      Both groups find either their eternal rest or eternal despair.
                      Not the same day though. The saved have eternal rest at the second coming but those for eternal despair are the same "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" which proves they are dealt with LONG after the second coming when the first resurrection takes place for those you described as finding "their eternal rest".
                      James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post

                        You have lost me. Please explain.





                        He did in Matt 25. He said when he comes he will deal with one group over there and the other group over here.

                        Both groups find either their eternal rest or eternal despair.
                        No mention of resurrection?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by randyk View Post

                          I've always had a hard time figuring this out! My thought is that the Son of Man will do this not at the precisely day of his Coming, but rather, at the end of the Millennium. But I don't really know.
                          Isn't the salient question, "How did you treat me while I was gone?"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CadyandZoe View Post

                            Isn't the salient question, "How did you treat me while I was gone?"
                            I do think that's the focus. When he comes people will receive the reward they deserve from their "time here." The focus is not on exactly when, after he comes, they will be rewarded.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CadyandZoe View Post

                              No mention of resurrection?
                              Doesnt need to mention it,
                              And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                              Comment

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