Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The second fall

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The second fall




    Are we experiencing the second fall the time when God judges and ends the entire world?

    To get to the answer we need to go to the bible and see when and why God judged the entire world before. This has only happened once back in the days of Noah during the time the flood.

    There is more to learn about the end times in Genesis chapters 4, 5 & 6 than anywhere else in the bible they are the key to when and why the end times will happen.

    The reason God destroyed almost all of mankind was not because the world became so evil it always has and always will be evil. The reason was due to the conforming of Gods faithful people.

    The faithful sons of God conformed to the lives of the unfaithful daughters of men and it was a lack of morality which led to the faithful choosing their own self determined lives over the life that God had for them.

    Genesis 6:1-2.
    1When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

    The faithful fell from God’s grace due to their sexual desires and lack of morality and this was used to entice them to marry as many woman as they desired. Eventually the faithful was reduced to just one man Noah. Thus the seed of the serpent is independence from God and the seed of God is dependence on Him. Eve proved this when she ate the forbidden fruit in the garden to become more like God.

    Once people and nations lose their morality they eventually fall as history shows us time and time again. We also see this happening in the bible like in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah or even Israel in 70AD.

    Jesus taught that divorce was immoral and it was happening within the nation of Israel during the first advent Jesus even said that it was better not to marry than to divorce and within one generation Israel fell.

    Matthew 19:10-12
    10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”
    11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

    Matthew 5:31-32
    31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f]
    32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.







    Today we see that the whole world has become immoral, sexual promiscuity and premarital sex has become accepted and rampant all over the world weather straight or gay sex, transvestite and transgender issues. Abortion is used for convenience as a way out of the consequences of our actions. Today even some of the church is falling into that trap. The world and some of the church is in free fall as it is conforming to the ways of the world with immorality and other issues as they are choosing their own self determined ways over Gods ways.

    I believe that the fall of Noah’s day serves as a warning to the church and Paul knew this as he instructed us not to conform but to stay faithful to God

    Romans 12:1-2
    12 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

    I believe that the conforming church restricts the Holy Spirit and that helps to release satans binding as he is gaining ground. I also believe that the faithful church is the city God loves and now the world has surrounded us. But fear not Jesus promised that the gates of hell will never overcome the church and just like God saved Noah and his family at the last minute in the ark Jesus will rapture the church moments before He destroys the world with fire.

    Revelation 20:7-10
    7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    Last edited by marty fox; Nov 17 2020, 08:13 PM. Reason: added info

  • #2
    Also interesting, that Matthew, Luke, and Peter all distinguish two world-wide judgments; the original by water, that Noah and his family of 8 survived; and the 2nd world-wide judgment by fire, that no mortals will escape.
    Some beliefs attempt to add a third world-wide judgment, and attempt to minimize the completness of the judgment of Christ in fire at His 2nd Coming and Revelation in resplendant glory, but scripture only distinquishes two world-wide judgments.

    Jesus is YHWH the eternal Great I AM.
    • Jesus said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM from above: ye are of this world; I AM not of this world. if ye believe not that I AM He, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:23
    • " I YHWH the LORD, the first, and with the last; I AM He. Thus saith YHWH the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer YHWH the LORD of hosts; I AM the first, and I AM the last; and beside me there is no God.” Isaiah 41:4,44:6
    • "And [the son of Man] laid his right hand upon me, saying Fear not; I AM the first and the last: I AM He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I AM alive for evermore. These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive" Rev 1:17, 2:8
    • "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I AM Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Rev 22:12

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
      Also interesting, that Matthew, Luke, and Peter all distinguish two world-wide judgments; the original by water, that Noah and his family of 8 survived; and the 2nd world-wide judgment by fire, that no mortals will escape.
      Some beliefs attempt to add a third world-wide judgment, and attempt to minimize the completness of the judgment of Christ in fire at His 2nd Coming and Revelation in resplendant glory, but scripture only distinquishes two world-wide judgments.
      Agreed thanks

      Yes the bible only shows two world judgements one by water and one by fire and both for the same reason

      Comment


      • #4
        You are right that Gen 4 - 6 helps us understand the End Times. However after that your reasoning goes wonky though I do get where it is coming from it seems quite speculative.
        As for the destruction the second time, it will be different to the first time.
        The first time, the world was destroyed, and then a new world was made but with all the issues the first world had - the issue of man's work and sin was not sorted.
        The second time of judgement, it is man's work which is burned up, and the focus this time is not in the physical realm but the spiritual.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
          You are right that Gen 4 - 6 helps us understand the End Times. However after that your reasoning goes wonky though I do get where it is coming from it seems quite speculative.
          As for the destruction the second time, it will be different to the first time.
          The first time, the world was destroyed, and then a new world was made but with all the issues the first world had - the issue of man's work and sin was not sorted.
          The second time of judgement, it is man's work which is burned up, and the focus this time is not in the physical realm but the spiritual.
          Thanks I agree but the reason of both destructions is the same.

          It may seem speculative but is it really?

          God had to start again with mankind because the faithful would of ended with Noah.

          God is patient because He wants more to be saved so why He ever end it if there are more to be saved. This shows us that He will end the world when the true gospel message is perverted and stops reaching the unsaved.

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree with your OP Marty, good post.
            The second worldwide judgment is much worse , as highlighted in these scriptures...,



            Matt 24
            21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.


            2pet 3

            3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue just as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly people.


            Even those in outer space will not escape his coming.


            Matt 24
            9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
            And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
              I agree with your OP Marty, good post.
              The second worldwide judgment is much worse , as highlighted in these scriptures...,



              Matt 24
              21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.


              2pet 3

              3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue just as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly people.


              Even those in outer space will not escape his coming.


              Matt 24
              9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
              Thanks weeder the next one will be worse

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by marty fox View Post

                Thanks weeder the next one will be worse
                Thanks be to Jesus that our Ark that brings us to safety in these last days is just as secure as Gods dimensions given to Noah who survived to stand before God on a renewed earth.
                And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                  Thanks I agree but the reason of both destructions is the same.
                  It may seem speculative but is it really?
                  God had to start again with mankind because the faithful would of ended with Noah.
                  God is patient because He wants more to be saved so why He ever end it if there are more to be saved. This shows us that He will end the world when the true gospel message is perverted and stops reaching the unsaved.
                  Now we have the wicked and the good growing to fruition at the SAME TIME.
                  He will remove the wicked from out of the Church BEFORE then removing the wicked form the world.
                  However the MAJOR difference is the outcome, with righteousness being brought in AT Jesus' return.
                  This did NOT happen with the Flood.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                    Now we have the wicked and the good growing to fruition at the SAME TIME.
                    He will remove the wicked from out of the Church BEFORE then removing the wicked form the world.
                    However the MAJOR difference is the outcome, with righteousness being brought in AT Jesus' return.
                    This did NOT happen with the Flood.
                    Where do you see the wicked being removed from the church before and then from the earth?

                    How I see it is that Jesus will come and rapture the true church and moments later the end will come.

                    What I am saying is that the church is slowly conforming especially with the western world youth. Each year the elderly saints are passing away and less people are joining the church. Unlike in the past non Christians don't know much about God anymore and its getting harder to reach them as so much of the world has mixed religions living together.




                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                      Where do you see the wicked being removed from the church before and then from the earth?
                      What is the purpose of the GT?
                      It is to remove the faithless from the Church.

                      How I see it is that Jesus will come and rapture the true church and moments later the end will come.
                      What I am saying is that the church is slowly conforming especially with the western world youth. Each year the elderly saints are passing away and less people are joining the church. Unlike in the past non Christians don't know much about God anymore and its getting harder to reach them as so much of the world has mixed religions living together.
                      The Church has ALWAYS been conforming to the world. It just varies from place to place and in the form it takes.
                      More people are joining the church now than ever before.
                      You confuse your localised view of things with a worldwide perspective.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                        What is the purpose of the GT?
                        It is to remove the faithless from the Church.


                        The Church has ALWAYS been conforming to the world. It just varies from place to place and in the form it takes.
                        More people are joining the church now than ever before.
                        You confuse your localised view of things with a worldwide perspective.
                        You still didn't answer the question so once more just so I can see where you are coming from where do you see the wicked being removed from the church before and then from the earth?

                        I see the GT being the persecution of the saints starting at the first advent and still happening today

                        Yes the church has always conformed but more today than ever a lot of churches aren't true churches and are not preaching the true gospel


                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                          You still didn't answer the question so once more just so I can see where you are coming from where do you see the wicked being removed from the church before and then from the earth?
                          I see the GT being the persecution of the saints starting at the first advent and still happening today
                          Yes the church has always conformed but more today than ever a lot of churches aren't true churches and are not preaching the true gospel
                          I see the wicked being removed from the Church through the GT which lasts ONLY 42 months.
                          The GT is NOT a LONG duration of persecution, but a short INTENSE period of time.
                          The Church has ALWAYS faced persecution from its start, which varies in intensity in different places at different times.
                          It has also ALWAYS been in danger of conforming to the world, again more in some places than others.
                          This is why Jesus gave the parable in Matt 13 about the seed being sown, some spring up and then have no roots, while others die as they are on rocky ground, and yet others are choked up by the world.
                          These three different soils speak of persecution/tribulation, conforming to the world and lack of discipleship. Hasn't changed in 2,000 years, and will remain the challenge UNTIL He comes.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post

                            I see the wicked being removed from the Church through the GT which lasts ONLY 42 months.
                            The GT is NOT a LONG duration of persecution, but a short INTENSE period of time.
                            The Church has ALWAYS faced persecution from its start, which varies in intensity in different places at different times.
                            It has also ALWAYS been in danger of conforming to the world, again more in some places than others.
                            This is why Jesus gave the parable in Matt 13 about the seed being sown, some spring up and then have no roots, while others die as they are on rocky ground, and yet others are choked up by the world.
                            These three different soils speak of persecution/tribulation, conforming to the world and lack of discipleship. Hasn't changed in 2,000 years, and will remain the challenge UNTIL He comes.
                            Of course but the conforming will increase more towards the end which is exactually what happened with the flood

                            As for the GT the angle told John exactually what is was

                            Revelation 7:9-17
                            9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:

                            “Salvation belongs to our God,
                            who sits on the throne,
                            and to the Lamb.”




                            11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

                            “Amen!
                            Praise and glory
                            and wisdom and thanks and honor
                            and power and strength
                            be to our God for ever and ever.
                            Amen!”




                            13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

                            14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

                            And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,

                            “they are before the throne of God
                            and serve him day and night in his temple;
                            and he who sits on the throne
                            will shelter them with his presence.
                            16 ‘Never again will they hunger;
                            never again will they thirst.
                            The sun will not beat down on them,’[a]
                            nor any scorching heat.
                            17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne
                            will be their shepherd;
                            ‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’[b]
                            ‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’[c]


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                              Of course but the conforming will increase more towards the end which is exactually what happened with the flood
                              Disagree, that was NOT what happened with the flood.
                              What happened with the flood was that wickedness increased WITHOUT righteousness increasing.
                              However in Jesus' parables He has an increase in BOTH wickedness AND righteousness.

                              As for the GT the angle told John exactually what is was[/QUOTE]
                              Indeed, which speaks NOT of a long period of tribulation, but what Jesus had PREVIOUSLY stated would be GT:
                              Mat 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
                              Mat 24:22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

                              As I do NOT apply a Preterist interpretation to this, it speaks quite CLEARLY of a FUTURE intense period of persecution, which will be cut short, just as Jesus' life had been cut short. This is one of the things which points to Jesus being 35 when He died. A full life being 70 years.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X