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What verse indicates that Jesus returns to Heaven after the reapture of all saints?

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  • Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I was ALREADY on record for this. Anabaino and anistemi are NOT used synonymously.


    I AGREE 100% that Peter equates anistemi with resurrection. What is the word for resurrection? Is it anabaino? No it is NOT:
    G386
    ἀνάστασις
    anastasis
    an-as'-tas-is
    From G450; a standing up again, that is, (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, general or by implication (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth): - raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.

    As Strongs notes anastasis is a word that is based on anistemi. Same root meaning which is to rise up.
    So far therefore you have NOT provided a SINGLE scripture which has anistemi or anastasis being used synonymously with anabaino.
    The resurrection IS the rising from the DEAD.

    Where you go completely WRONG is your leap that Peter is saying the proof is Jesus sitting at the Father's right hand.
    What Peter states is the proof is that Peter saw the risen/resurrected Jesus on earth. This is stated in verse 32.

    Now Jesus being exalted is a FURTHER step and for this Peter notes that David was NOT anabaino (v 34). Peter is NOT saying that anistemi IS anabaino, but rather that AFTER Jesus anistemi THEN the Father raised Him up.


    Nope Jesus did NOT sit on David's throne when He ascended on the day of His resurrection. He did anabaino, but he then descended once again to see His disciples. Again David does NOT reference the Resurrection Day itself but simply states something he was given to prophesy, which Peter notes.
    Also Peter does NOT say that Jesus is seated on David's throne, but actually says Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father.


    Anistemi is used as a timing mechanism as much as egeiro - in fact they are being used synonymously in this passage.
    They are referring to the SAME thing and it is a bit bizarre to claim they are not.


    Nope again NOWHERE here is Paul equating anabaino and anistemi. The promise was a resurrection from the dead, which is what egeiro/anistemi/anastasis ALL refer to.
    We live BECAUSE He lives, and the forgiveness of sins is because He died. The ENTIRE connection is with those who are raised to life AGAIN.


    I can understand why you won't rehash Acts 17:31 as there is NO assurance of the Holy Spirit in connection with anistemi in this verse:
    Act 17:31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
    The assurance we have that we will be raised from the dead is because there are witnesses who saw Jesus raised from the dead.
    When you FIND a SINGLE passage which actually equates anabaino with anistemi please do provide it. I am still waiting.
    It is 100% clear that anistemi and egeiro are synonyms including the passage from Acts 13 that you provided (and the many passages I gave). Moreover IF Acts 13 is your proof text about anistemi and anabaino, egeiro is part of that proof text and so the SAME of anistemi from that passage is also true of egeiro.
    I am not going to address anything here, because I have made things clearer in my last post to DVM, including, Christ's right to sit on the throne of David. He doesn't sit there now. But the resurrection gave him that right. It proved his worthiness to do.

    I can resummarize that post by saying,
    1. David's visions of the resurrected Christ does not include the "40 days" after his resurrection. He seen Christ NOW sitting at the Father's right hand.
    2. There were 2 ascensions after Jesus was raised from the dead. The first one demonstrated that Christ was worthy to ascend to the heavens and sit at the Father's right hand. The 2nd ascension, what David saw, is where Christ is now. He is sitting at the Father's right hand, waiting for the time when God will make his enemies his footstool.
    3. The first ascension occurred because he was deemed worthy. This is evidence by the phrases
    A. Thine Holy One didn't see corruption.
    B. My soul was not left in hell.
    4. The Holy Ghost was given to Christ at the 1st ascension. This is evidenced in David's words, "thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance". He is talking about the Holy Spirit 's witness in our lives of the glorified Christ (thy countenance). Christ was glorified on the first ascension and was given the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is our assurance, Acts 17:31 of the presence of the glorified Christ, dwelling in our hearts. That is the assurance that we have that Christ was glorified. Paul said that we have this assurance by the anistemi. I.e. Christ was glorified at the anistemi when He demonstrated his worthiness to the Father... at the 1st ascension. The amistemi is the 1st ascension. The anistemi is the 1st anabaino. David said, that we are full of the joy of thy countenance, because of the resurrectin
    on. The resurrection is the combined effect of the egeiro and the anistemi. David seen the completed result of the resurrection, the egeiro and the anistemi, in the form of the glorified Christ. Christ was not glorified and given the Holy Ghost until the 1st ascension, our assurance of the glorified Christ.

    Have a Blessed Day, I am finished discussing this.
    The PuP

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
      I am not going to address anything here, because I have made things clearer in my last post to DVM, including, Christ's right to sit on the throne of David. He doesn't sit there now. But the resurrection gave him that right. It proved his worthiness to do.
      Indeed it did prove His worthiness.

      I can resummarize that post by saying,
      1. David's visions of the resurrected Christ does not include the "40 days" after his resurrection. He seen Christ NOW sitting at the Father's right hand.
      2. There were 2 ascensions after Jesus was raised from the dead. The first one demonstrated that Christ was worthy to ascend to the heavens and sit at the Father's right hand. The 2nd ascension, what David saw, is where Christ is now. He is sitting at the Father's right hand, waiting for the time when God will make his enemies his footstool.
      3. The first ascension occurred because he was deemed worthy. This is evidence by the phrases
      A. Thine Holy One didn't see corruption.
      B. My soul was not left in hell.
      4. The Holy Ghost was given to Christ at the 1st ascension. This is evidenced in David's words, "thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance". He is talking about the Holy Spirit 's witness in our lives of the glorified Christ (thy countenance). Christ was glorified on the first ascension and was given the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is our assurance, Acts 17:31 of the presence of the glorified Christ, dwelling in our hearts. That is the assurance that we have that Christ was glorified. Paul said that we have this assurance by the anistemi. I.e. Christ was glorified at the anistemi when He demonstrated his worthiness to the Father... at the 1st ascension. The amistemi is the 1st ascension. The anistemi is the 1st anabaino. David said, that we are full of the joy of thy countenance, because of the resurrectin
      on. The resurrection is the combined effect of the egeiro and the anistemi. David seen the completed result of the resurrection, the egeiro and the anistemi, in the form of the glorified Christ. Christ was not glorified and given the Holy Ghost until the 1st ascension, our assurance of the glorified Christ.
      1. As Peter was preaching AFTER Jesus had ascended after 40 days, so Jesus was NOW (on the 50th Day) sitting at God's right hand. You have nothing which supports the initial anabaino as being the important one - ESPECIALLY when Jesus told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem AFTER his first ascension, in order for them to receive the Holy Spirit in power.
      2. The first ascension demonstrated NOTHING. His resurrection demonstrated He was worthy NOT HIs ascension. In fact His first ascension was related to Hebrews:
      Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)
      Heb 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
      Now IF you agree that it is the SECOND ascension David saw then there is NO connection with anistemi.
      3. The first anabaino occurred because He had egeiro from the dead and now was going to enter the Holy Place to present His blood to the Father.
      A this is about how long Jesus was in the tomb NOT the ascension
      B this is also about how long He was dead
      4 Jesus has ALWAYS had the Holy Spirit, for He is One with the Holy Spirit. However though Jesus blew on the disciples before His second ascension, He specifically told them to wait to receive the Holy Spirt that would be sent to them. This is what the passages which speak of the Holy Spirit and anabaino make reference to.
      Jesus was glorified by His anabaino and that happened because He was anistemi. Two different terms speaking of different things. Paul says that this assurance was in regards to Jesus' resurrection AND NOT due to His anabaino. A different point for assurance.
      Anistemi is NEVER stated or connected with the 1st ascension, but the word anabaino is ALWAYS used.
      Resurrection is NOT the combination of egeiro and anistemi - it is simply another way of saying anistemi for a different tense in Greek.

      You don't seem to want to respond to my post SPECIFICALLY because SPECIFICALLY you do NOT have a SINGLE example of anistemi being used synonymously with anabaino. When you do have such a passage please do present it.
      What you have also FAILED to do is deal with the MULTIPLE occasions where egeiro IS used synonymously with anistemi, which highlights the FAILING of your logic. IF egeiro IS synonymous with anistemi (and it is proven so already) THEN IF anistemi is synonymous with anabaino THEN so is egeiro.
      Your reference to Acts 13 proves this. However as anistemi is NOT proven or even suggested in scripture as being synonymous with anabaino you have nothing in your claim.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
        Indeed it did prove His worthiness.


        1. As Peter was preaching AFTER Jesus had ascended after 40 days, so Jesus was NOW (on the 50th Day) sitting at God's right hand. You have nothing which supports the initial anabaino as being the important one - ESPECIALLY when Jesus told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem AFTER his first ascension, in order for them to receive the Holy Spirit in power.
        2. The first ascension demonstrated NOTHING. His resurrection demonstrated He was worthy NOT HIs ascension. In fact His first ascension was related to Hebrews:
        Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)
        Heb 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
        Now IF you agree that it is the SECOND ascension David saw then there is NO connection with anistemi.
        3. The first anabaino occurred because He had egeiro from the dead and now was going to enter the Holy Place to present His blood to the Father.
        A this is about how long Jesus was in the tomb NOT the ascension
        B this is also about how long He was dead
        4 Jesus has ALWAYS had the Holy Spirit, for He is One with the Holy Spirit. However though Jesus blew on the disciples before His second ascension, He specifically told them to wait to receive the Holy Spirt that would be sent to them. This is what the passages which speak of the Holy Spirit and anabaino make reference to.
        Jesus was glorified by His anabaino and that happened because He was anistemi. Two different terms speaking of different things. Paul says that this assurance was in regards to Jesus' resurrection AND NOT due to His anabaino. A different point for assurance.
        Anistemi is NEVER stated or connected with the 1st ascension, but the word anabaino is ALWAYS used.
        Resurrection is NOT the combination of egeiro and anistemi - it is simply another way of saying anistemi for a different tense in Greek.

        You don't seem to want to respond to my post SPECIFICALLY because SPECIFICALLY you do NOT have a SINGLE example of anistemi being used synonymously with anabaino. When you do have such a passage please do present it.
        What you have also FAILED to do is deal with the MULTIPLE occasions where egeiro IS used synonymously with anistemi, which highlights the FAILING of your logic. IF egeiro IS synonymous with anistemi (and it is proven so already) THEN IF anistemi is synonymous with anabaino THEN so is egeiro.
        Your reference to Acts 13 proves this. However as anistemi is NOT proven or even suggested in scripture as being synonymous with anabaino you have nothing in your claim.
        You make two major errors.

        1.Jesus received the Holy Spirit from the Father WHEN he ascended to the Father. He did not :always: have the Holy Spirit; PETER makes that clear.

        Act 2:33 KJV Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

        There is but one subject in that verse.... Jesus!

        Jesus...is by the right hand of God exalted,

        Jesus... received of the Father, the promise of the Holy Ghost.

        Jesus... hast shed forth that which ye see & hear.

        Jesus said.... If I don't go away, the comforter will not come.

        Jesus said, But if I go away, I, Jesus, will send him unto you.

        2. Jesus was NOT glorified until the 1st anabaino when He received the Holy Ghost.

        Joh 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

        Joh 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

        Jesus was exalted and received glory when he ascended to the Father at the 1st anabaino, and not before nor after. Paul said it, and so did Peter, that the assurance of the resurrection (via the anistemi) is the gift of the Holy Ghost.

        Act 17:31 KJV Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised (ANISTEMI!) him from the dead.

        Act 2:31-33 KJV 31 He seeing this before spake of the RESURRECTION of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised (ANISTEMI) up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


        Comment


        • Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
          The resurrection IS the rising from the DEAD.
          Agreed.

          Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
          Where you go completely WRONG is your leap that Peter is saying the proof is Jesus sitting at the Father's right hand.
          What Peter states is the proof is that Peter saw the risen/resurrected Jesus on earth. This is stated in verse 32.

          Now Jesus being exalted is a FURTHER step and for this Peter notes that David was NOT anabaino (v 34). Peter is NOT saying that anistemi IS anabaino, but rather that AFTER Jesus anistemi THEN the Father raised Him up.
          Agreed... and this ^ is how I would have liked to have said it (good job ; ) , lol)... all except the last three words (which I underlined ^ )... only because they seem too confusing. I might have said "the Father EXALTED Him" (instead of "raised Him up," here [at the end-phrase], which would instead link back to the other words we were discussing and endeavoring to clarify).


          But overall, I totally agree with your point! = )





          [I think we all agree He "[ACTIVE] I ASCEND" that very day, and that the Father "EXALTED" Him ; ) ... so THAT is not in question]

          Comment


          • Originally posted by FreeGrace View Post
            This assumes that the "last trump" of Matt 24:31, 1 Cor 15;52, and 1 Thess 4:16 is the 7th trumpet. But there is evidence for that. Since then 7 trumpet judgments occur in the first half of the Tribulation, according to a number of scholars, you still have Jesus coming to earth WAY BEFORE the end of the Tribulation.
            The 7th trump is when the GT has ended, not in the middle of it. That means the 42 months the beast had to rule is over and will not be allowed to wage war against Christians anymore.


            The better word for "raptured" is "resurrected" since when He comes, He resurrects ALL who belong to Him.
            No it's not a better word. Rapture means to move someone upwards physically and resurrection means to come back to life after being dead physically. They are two different things and happen to two different types of people.

            The Rapture and the Ressurection are not the same event. The Ressurection happens only to the dead saints, and the Rapture only happens to the living saints.

            The living aren't resurrected because they didn't die. The dead aren't raptured because they return with Christ as he returns.

            Besides this, Paul makes it clear the resurrection happens before the rapture so the living cannot "precede/prevent" the dead proving that the two events are not one single event but they do happen nearly at the same time.


            1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

            Revelation 19 is obviously His Second Advent.
            Yes but that doesn't happen until the 7th trump has sounded.




            James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              The Rapture and the Ressurection are not the same event.
              Agreed. These are DISTINCT items.


              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              The Ressurection happens only to the dead saints, and the Rapture only happens to the living saints.
              (re: the part I bolded ^ ) Yes, and no. The "dead IN Christ" will then have just been resurrected to life, so YES (THEY are then ALIVE TOO), in that sense.

              The wording makes CLEAR that the ADVERB "together [G260]" must be joined to the VERB "caught up / snatch / harpazo [G726]"... which makes this phrase "caught up together" to mean that the two components are "caught up AT THE SAME TIME" (the "we which are ALIVE" will be "caught up" at the same time that the now "resurrected" DEAD-IN-Christ will be "caught up"--at the SAME PRECISE MOMENT *together* caught up [and that is, after they "shall rise [/be resurrected-from-the-dead] first"]).

              This whole scene ("our Rapture" event [singular]) pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" (ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]"; NOT to all other "saints" of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints). We will be "caught up" AS ONE (the "ONE BODY")... in contrast to how the elect of Israel are said to be "gathered ONE BY ONE" (at the "GREAT" trumpet, "AFTER" the tribulation, per Matt24:29-31/Isa27:12-13... TO worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM, i.e. to one place upon the earth... not "IN THE AIR" as WE [/the Church which is HIs body] will be)

              The living aren't resurrected because they didn't die. The dead aren't raptured because they return with Christ as he returns.
              "the DEAD IN Christ" (after they are resurrected) will BOTH "be caught up" (TOGETHER, WHEN the "we which are ALIVE" will be caught up), AND will return WITH HIM (just as the "we which are ALIVE" who are raptured too WILL ALSO "return" WITH [G4862 - UNITED-with] Him--This "WITH [G4862 - UNITED-with]" word applies to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY / US [ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]"])

              Besides this, Paul makes it clear the resurrection happens before the rapture so the living cannot "precede/prevent" the dead proving that the two events are not one single event but they do happen nearly at the same time.
              I can agree with you there, in one sense.

              However, I do not believe "the resurrection, the first" (i.e. "the resurrection OF LIFE") means this occurs only at one singular point in time.

              "[re: resurrection of saints] But EACH [a word meaning, 'OF MORE THAN TWO'] in his own ORDER"... and "blessed and holy is the one HAVING *A PART* IN the resurrection, the first" ("the resurrection OF LIFE"--a QUALITY issue rather than a TIMING issue)... these do not indicate that this occurs in one singular/precise moment (the "2W" are resurrected at the "6th Trumpet/2nd Woe," for example!!), and indeed, this is why Paul uses the term "THIS mortal" [for the "we which are ALIVE"] and "THIS corruptible" [for the "DEAD IN Christ"] when he is given TO DISCLOSE, "Behold, I SHEW you A MYSTERY" (something that was theretofore as yet UNDISCLOSED... because it had been "HIDDEN IN GOD" rather than recorded in our OT Scriptures ; ) )


              1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


              Yes but that doesn't happen until the 7th trump has sounded.

              Disagree with your "chronology" though, for reasons I alluded to, above, and elaborated on in past posts. = D

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post

                (re: the part I bolded ^ ) Yes, and no. The "dead IN Christ" will then have just been resurrected to life, so YES (THEY are then ALIVE TOO), in that sense.

                Yes but those that are "alive and remain" is a reference to mortal humans that survive the GT. It is they that are changed and raptured not anyone else. Paul only attributed a rapture to those who were mortally alive and were changed to immortality without a death occurring.







                1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
                1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
                1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

                The only ones "caught up" are those "alive and remain" to "them" in the clouds which is Christ and the resurrected saints. No need to rapture saints who came with you from heaven to the clouds. That's going DOWN not UP.

                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
                  You make two major errors.
                  1.Jesus received the Holy Spirit from the Father WHEN he ascended to the Father. He did not :always: have the Holy Spirit; PETER makes that clear.
                  Act 2:33 KJV Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
                  There is but one subject in that verse.... Jesus!
                  Jesus...is by the right hand of God exalted,
                  Jesus... received of the Father, the promise of the Holy Ghost.
                  Jesus... hast shed forth that which ye see & hear.
                  Jesus said.... If I don't go away, the comforter will not come.
                  Jesus said, But if I go away, I, Jesus, will send him unto you.
                  OK let's deal with this first supposed error.
                  Firstly, Jesus Himself CERTAINLY 100% had the Holy Spirit. This is evident from what He did and from descriptions of His baptism.
                  What you REALLY mean is that Jesus did NOT have the Holy Spirit to GIVE to others.
                  Secondly, Peter's reference here is to when Jesus ascended to Heaven in full sight of the disciples as noted in Acts 1. This is NOT about His first anabaino BEFORE coming to the disciples that first evening after His resurrection. The CONTEXT and reference is about what is NOW seen and heard, which is the Holy Spirit given in power:
                  Act 1:4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me;
                  Act 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

                  This baptism in the Holy Spirit did NOT occur after Jesus breathed on them, for IF it had then there would be NO requirement or order NOT to depart from Jerusalem.
                  Therefore I have NO error here.

                  2. Jesus was NOT glorified until the 1st anabaino when He received the Holy Ghost.
                  Joh 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
                  Joh 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
                  Jesus was exalted and received glory when he ascended to the Father at the 1st anabaino, and not before nor after. Paul said it, and so did Peter, that the assurance of the resurrection (via the anistemi) is the gift of the Holy Ghost.
                  Act 17:31 KJV Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised (ANISTEMI!) him from the dead.
                  Act 2:31-33 KJV 31 He seeing this before spake of the RESURRECTION of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised (ANISTEMI) up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.[/QUOTE]
                  Again Jesus ALREADY had the Holy Spirit, so you are in error here. The glorification of Jesus is NOT Him receiving the Holy Spirit.
                  What John 7:39 states is that there was an ORDER of events, a CHRONOLOGY which happened. The order is this:
                  1) Jesus died and was buried
                  2) Jesus rose from the dead (anistemi)
                  3) Jesus ascended to the Father (presenting Himself as the sacrifice)
                  4) Jesus showed His risen self to many witness over 40 days
                  5) Jesus ascended to the Father (with the command for the disciples to wait for the Holy Spirit which was NOT YET given in power)
                  6) Jesus having ascended to the Father (after the 40 days) and no longer returning, He was exalted and glorified.
                  7) Jesus then sent the Holy Spirit as He said He would.

                  Neither Paul nor Peter said anywhere that Jesus was glorified at His first anabaino. More importantly the Holy Spirit was NOT SENT to be received as PROMISED until AFTER His Second anabaino!
                  Acts 17:31 speaks of a DIFFERENT assurance, which is that of the testimony of those who saw a risen Jesus.
                  Paul puts it this way in 1 Cor 15:
                  1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
                  1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
                  1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
                  1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
                  1Co 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
                  1Co 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
                  1Co 15:7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
                  1Co 15:8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
                  1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
                  1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.
                  1Co 15:11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

                  Notice that Paul does NOT tell the Corinthians that the first importance of the gospel is the receipt of the Holy Spirit. Nor does Paul point to that as giving the assurance that the gospel is true. Instead Paul highlights the SAME points I made above:
                  apothneko (death), egeiro (rising from the dead), optomai (seen)
                  This is what is being stated as the assurance in Acts 2:32 of which the disciples were all witnesses (for they had SEEN the risen saviour).

                  I have NO major error - the ONLY question is whether Jesus was glorified AFTER the 1st anabaino or the 2nd. However the giving of the Holy Spirit in response to the PROMISE is stated UNEQUIVOCALLY as AFTER the 2nd anabaino.
                  There is NO synonymous use of anistemi and anabaino ANYWHERE in scripture.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                    OK let's deal with this first supposed error.
                    Firstly, Jesus Himself CERTAINLY 100% had the Holy Spirit. This is evident from what He did and from descriptions of His baptism.
                    What you REALLY mean is that Jesus did NOT have the Holy Spirit to GIVE to others.
                    Secondly, Peter's reference here is to when Jesus ascended to Heaven in full sight of the disciples as noted in Acts 1. This is NOT about His first anabaino BEFORE coming to the disciples that first evening after His resurrection. The CONTEXT and reference is about what is NOW seen and heard, which is the Holy Spirit given in power:
                    Act 1:4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me;
                    Act 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

                    This baptism in the Holy Spirit did NOT occur after Jesus breathed on them, for IF it had then there would be NO requirement or order NOT to depart from Jerusalem.
                    Therefore I have NO error here.

                    2. Jesus was NOT glorified until the 1st anabaino when He received the Holy Ghost.
                    Joh 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
                    Joh 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
                    Jesus was exalted and received glory when he ascended to the Father at the 1st anabaino, and not before nor after. Paul said it, and so did Peter, that the assurance of the resurrection (via the anistemi) is the gift of the Holy Ghost.
                    Act 17:31 KJV Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised (ANISTEMI!) him from the dead.
                    Act 2:31-33 KJV 31 He seeing this before spake of the RESURRECTION of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised (ANISTEMI) up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
                    Again Jesus ALREADY had the Holy Spirit, so you are in error here. The glorification of Jesus is NOT Him receiving the Holy Spirit.
                    What John 7:39 states is that there was an ORDER of events, a CHRONOLOGY which happened. The order is this:
                    1) Jesus died and was buried
                    2) Jesus rose from the dead (anistemi)
                    3) Jesus ascended to the Father (presenting Himself as the sacrifice)
                    4) Jesus showed His risen self to many witness over 40 days
                    5) Jesus ascended to the Father (with the command for the disciples to wait for the Holy Spirit which was NOT YET given in power)
                    6) Jesus having ascended to the Father (after the 40 days) and no longer returning, He was exalted and glorified.
                    7) Jesus then sent the Holy Spirit as He said He would.

                    Neither Paul nor Peter said anywhere that Jesus was glorified at His first anabaino. More importantly the Holy Spirit was NOT SENT to be received as PROMISED until AFTER His Second anabaino!
                    Acts 17:31 speaks of a DIFFERENT assurance, which is that of the testimony of those who saw a risen Jesus.
                    Paul puts it this way in 1 Cor 15:
                    1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
                    1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
                    1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
                    1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
                    1Co 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
                    1Co 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
                    1Co 15:7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
                    1Co 15:8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
                    1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
                    1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.
                    1Co 15:11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

                    Notice that Paul does NOT tell the Corinthians that the first importance of the gospel is the receipt of the Holy Spirit. Nor does Paul point to that as giving the assurance that the gospel is true. Instead Paul highlights the SAME points I made above:
                    apothneko (death), egeiro (rising from the dead), optomai (seen)
                    This is what is being stated as the assurance in Acts 2:32 of which the disciples were all witnesses (for they had SEEN the risen saviour).

                    I have NO major error - the ONLY question is whether Jesus was glorified AFTER the 1st anabaino or the 2nd. However the giving of the Holy Spirit in response to the PROMISE is stated UNEQUIVOCALLY as AFTER the 2nd anabaino.
                    There is NO synonymous use of anistemi and anabaino ANYWHERE in scripture.
                    Act 17:31 KJV Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

                    Your view of Acts 17:31 is clearly wrong for two reasons.
                    1. Jesus was no longer with them. No one could just go and find Jesus dwelling in this city or that city.
                    ​​2. ALL men did not see Jesus. Only a few hundred people were eye witnesses to his resurrection.
                    The scope of Jesus's appearance is very limited. The certainty of the anistemi is not by visual acuity. He is talking about the Holy Ghost. We also have this testimony of Paul:

                    Rom 1:4 KJV And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

                    Christ was ordained to sit on David's throne at the anabaino. Which one? The first one of course. For it Is quoted already... This DAY have I begotten thee... the day that Christ was glorified and exalted by the Father, when he received the promise of the Holy Ghost... at the 1st anabaino. This is what Paul is saying here in Romans 1.

                    HOW is this made? By the testimony of thespirit of holiness... The Holy Ghost! [WE WALK IN HOLINESS BECAUSE THE H.G. DWELLS IN US!]
                    WHEN did this begin? At the resurrection. [WHEN JESUS RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST]. Your view has the "resurrection" (the egeiro and anistemi) over and done when Mary Magdalene saw Jesus. But, it was not until Jesus received the Holy Ghost from the Father, could this happen. The Holy Ghost could not come until Jesus went away. And Jesus wasn't referring to his death, when he said,

                    Joh 16:7 KJV Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

                    [Jesus had to be glorified before they could receive the Holy Ghost. He did this by going away!]

                    Paul includes the receiving and giving of the Holy Ghost as part of "the resurrection ", when Jesus "rose " from the dead. Paul says the "power" of the resurrection is manifest in the Spirit of holiness. He said that same assurance is given to all men BY the anistemi... the Holy Ghost. You just can't seem to grasp that he is talking about the same thing. This "powerful" witness came at the anistemi, when Jesus "rose" to the Father. The anistemi is the 1st anabaino.

                    Peter said the same thing when he quoted David.

                    Act 2:31 KJV He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

                    The "resurrection of Christ". Jesus was ordained to sit on the throne of David when he ascended to the Father. Which anabaino? The first one when he gave assurance unto all men.

                    Act 17:31 KJV Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised (ANISTEMI) him from the dead.

                    Jesus was declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, by the spirit of holiness that he was given to all men. The conferment of the powerful assurance of the Holy Ghost was given at the anistemi, when Jesus was resurrected.

                    Be Blessed

                    Comment


                    • Peter and Paul both include the giving of the Holy Ghost at the 1st anabaino in the "resurrection" of Jesus. They both equate the giving of the Holy Ghost with the anistemi. NO ONE equates the egeiro with the giving of the Holy Ghost. There is only one conclusion that can be made. The anistemi is the 1st anabaino.

                      BE BLESSED
                      THE PuP

                      Comment


                      • I said:
                        "The better word for "raptured" is "resurrected" since when He comes, He resurrects ALL who belong to Him."
                        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                        No it's not a better word. Rapture means to move someone upwards physically and resurrection means to come back to life after being dead physically. They are two different things and happen to two different types of people.
                        It seems your ideas about the end times is rather confused. The "meeting in the air" occurs when Jesus returns to earth at the Second Advent. And that is when "those who belong to Him" are resurrected. 1 Cor 15:23

                        The meeting in the air is hardly as important as the resurrection.

                        The Rapture and the Ressurection are not the same event.
                        Well, that is just very confused thinking. What evidence is there from Scripture to support your claim here?

                        The Ressurection happens only to the dead saints, and the Rapture only happens to the living saints.
                        Oh, I see where your confusion comes from. The dead saints come with Jesus and BOTH are resurrected when Jesus returns, so it seems you are just trying to split hairs. They both happen at the same event.

                        The living aren't resurrected because they didn't die.
                        Sounds like more hair splitting. Those who "are still alive and are left will be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM (the dead ones). Got it? Both the living and dead saints will be together.

                        1 Cor 15:23 clearly shows that both the dead and living saints will be RESURRECTED, which will be at the same time and event.

                        " But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. " That's ALL the saints, both dead and living.

                        The dead aren't raptured because they return with Christ as he returns.
                        No need to keep trying to split hairs. They will be resurrected. That's the key idea here. Both the dead and living saints will be resurrected, meaning they will receive their permanent resurrection bodies, the bodies they will have for eternity.

                        Besides this, Paul makes it clear the resurrection happens before the rapture so the living cannot "precede/prevent" the dead proving that the two events are not one single event but they do happen nearly at the same time.
                        Again, confused. The dead saints receive their resurrection bodies FIRST, then the living saints receive theirs.

                        1 Cor 15:52 - in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
                        1 Thess 4-
                        14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
                        15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
                        16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
                        17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

                        Yes but that doesn't happen until the 7th trump has sounded.
                        "Last trumpet". It could be after the 7 trumpet judgments.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
                          Your view of Acts 17:31 is clearly wrong for two reasons.
                          1. Jesus was no longer with them. No one could just go and find Jesus dwelling in this city or that city.
                          ​​2. ALL men did not see Jesus. Only a few hundred people were eye witnesses to his resurrection.
                          The scope of Jesus's appearance is very limited. The certainty of the anistemi is not by visual acuity. He is talking about the Holy Ghost. We also have this testimony of Paul:
                          Rom 1:4 KJV And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
                          Nope, you are CLEARLY wrong about Acts 17:31. At that time you could ask those who were eye witnesses.
                          It is a reference to His resurrection and NOT a reference to His ascension.
                          Notice the immediate verse following:
                          Act 17:32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, “We will hear you again about this.”

                          Now IF it was talking about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and its power then they would NOT mock, for either they saw it or they did not. However as this statement is based NOT upon an act of God in power, but about a witness statement so some mock.

                          Christ was ordained to sit on David's throne at the anabaino. Which one? The first one of course. For it Is quoted already... This DAY have I begotten thee... the day that Christ was glorified and exalted by the Father, when he received the promise of the Holy Ghost... at the 1st anabaino. This is what Paul is saying here in Romans 1.
                          Nope. Christ has still NOT YET sat on David's throne. Peter noted He is PRESENTLY seated at the right hand of God (NOT David's throne).
                          What was the VSIIBLE demonstration of God's power hat Paul referenced? It was that Jesus was raised from the DEAD and NOT that Jesus ascended to the Father and NOT some other manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
                          Paul most certainly is NOT making any reference to anabaino here.

                          Paul includes the receiving and giving of the Holy Ghost as part of "the resurrection ", when Jesus "rose " from the dead. Paul says the "power" of the resurrection is manifest in the Spirit of holiness. He said that same assurance is given to all men BY the anistemi... the Holy Ghost. You just can't seem to grasp that he is talking about the same thing. This "powerful" witness came at the anistemi, when Jesus "rose" to the Father. The anistemi is the 1st anabaino.
                          Nope Paul does NOT include the receiving and giving of the Holy Spirit as part of the anastasis. That is simply nonsense. Not supported by the text in the slightest. No reference to this here.
                          The power of the resurrection is a DEAD person coming to LIFE. Not some later manifestation where someone speaks in tongues or someone prophesies or someone is healed. Being brought to LIFE is the ultimate expression of the POWER of God. Anistemi then is NOT about the giving of the Holy Spirit but the work of God who has eternal life.
                          The anistemi has NOTHING to do with anabaino.

                          Jesus was declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, by the spirit of holiness that he was given to all men. The conferment of the powerful assurance of the Holy Ghost was given at the anistemi, when Jesus was resurrected.
                          You start off correct "Jesus was declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead". Here you are 100% matching what scripture states. Where you err and move away from what scripture actually says is connecting this with the LATER giving of the Holy Spirit whihc is AFTER the 2nd anabaino. Moreover scripture NEVER equates Jesus rising from the dead with the Holy Spirit, but instead notes that Jesus was involved and the Father was involved.
                          The conferment of the powerful assurance of the Holy Spirit is a SECOND assurance SEPARATE to the assurance based upon Jesus rising from the dead, and is connected with Jesus' second anabaino as stated UNEQUIVOCALLY in Acts 1, which I quoted for you.
                          You SEEM to think that because the word "assurance" is used so there is ONLY one assurance. In fact God usually has TWO witnesses for most things.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
                            Peter and Paul both include the giving of the Holy Ghost at the 1st anabaino in the "resurrection" of Jesus. They both equate the giving of the Holy Ghost with the anistemi. NO ONE equates the egeiro with the giving of the Holy Ghost. There is only one conclusion that can be made. The anistemi is the 1st anabaino.
                            Neither Peter or Paul included the giving of the Holy Spirit at the 1st anabaino. In fact NEITHER even make reference to that 1st anabaino.
                            Also NEITHER Peter nor Paul equate the giving of the Holy Spirit with anistemi. There are NO verses saying this.
                            It is true that for the SAME reason that anistemi is not mentioned neither is egeiro mentioned in relation to the giving of the Holy Spirit.
                            Anistemi and egeiro ARE used synonymously in numerous places BOTH for the rising of the dead, and in another instance of rising (meaning simply to stand).
                            The ONLY conclusion that can be made is that anistemi is NOT synonymous with anabaino.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                              Nope, you are CLEARLY wrong about Acts 17:31. At that time you could ask those who were eye witnesses.
                              It is a reference to His resurrection and NOT a reference to His ascension.
                              Notice the immediate verse following:
                              Act 17:32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, “We will hear you again about this.”

                              Now IF it was talking about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and its power then they would NOT mock, for either they saw it or they did not. However as this statement is based NOT upon an act of God in power, but about a witness statement so some mock.


                              Nope. Christ has still NOT YET sat on David's throne. Peter noted He is PRESENTLY seated at the right hand of God (NOT David's throne).
                              What was the VSIIBLE demonstration of God's power hat Paul referenced? It was that Jesus was raised from the DEAD and NOT that Jesus ascended to the Father and NOT some other manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
                              Paul most certainly is NOT making any reference to anabaino here.


                              Nope Paul does NOT include the receiving and giving of the Holy Spirit as part of the anastasis. That is simply nonsense. Not supported by the text in the slightest. No reference to this here.
                              The power of the resurrection is a DEAD person coming to LIFE. Not some later manifestation where someone speaks in tongues or someone prophesies or someone is healed. Being brought to LIFE is the ultimate expression of the POWER of God. Anistemi then is NOT about the giving of the Holy Spirit but the work of God who has eternal life.
                              The anistemi has NOTHING to do with anabaino.


                              You start off correct "Jesus was declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead". Here you are 100% matching what scripture states. Where you err and move away from what scripture actually says is connecting this with the LATER giving of the Holy Spirit whihc is AFTER the 2nd anabaino. Moreover scripture NEVER equates Jesus rising from the dead with the Holy Spirit, but instead notes that Jesus was involved and the Father was involved.
                              The conferment of the powerful assurance of the Holy Spirit is a SECOND assurance SEPARATE to the assurance based upon Jesus rising from the dead, and is connected with Jesus' second anabaino as stated UNEQUIVOCALLY in Acts 1, which I quoted for you.
                              You SEEM to think that because the word "assurance" is used so there is ONLY one assurance. In fact God usually has TWO witnesses for most things.
                              I give up on you because you can't accept John's word that the giving of the Holy Ghost on the day of the 1st anabaino was the evidence of the glorification of the Son. And you can't accept Peter's declaration that Jesus received the Holy Ghost from the Father at the 1st anabaino.

                              Joh 7:39 KJV (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

                              Joh 20:22 KJV And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

                              Act 2:33 KJV Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

                              Are you of the mindset that doesn't believe a person has the Holy Ghost until he speaks in tongues?

                              Rom 10:9-10 KJV 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

                              Joh 20:27 KJV Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

                              Mar 16:14 KJV Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                                Nope, you are CLEARLY wrong about Acts 17:31. At that time you could ask those who were eye witnesses.
                                It is a reference to His resurrection and NOT a reference to His ascension.
                                Notice the immediate verse following:
                                Act 17:32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, “We will hear you again about this.”

                                Now IF it was talking about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and its power then they would NOT mock, for either they saw it or they did not. However as this statement is based NOT upon an act of God in power, but about a witness statement so some mock.


                                Nope. Christ has still NOT YET sat on David's throne. Peter noted He is PRESENTLY seated at the right hand of God (NOT David's throne).
                                What was the VSIIBLE demonstration of God's power hat Paul referenced? It was that Jesus was raised from the DEAD and NOT that Jesus ascended to the Father and NOT some other manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
                                Paul most certainly is NOT making any reference to anabaino here.


                                Nope Paul does NOT include the receiving and giving of the Holy Spirit as part of the anastasis. That is simply nonsense. Not supported by the text in the slightest. No reference to this here.
                                The power of the resurrection is a DEAD person coming to LIFE. Not some later manifestation where someone speaks in tongues or someone prophesies or someone is healed. Being brought to LIFE is the ultimate expression of the POWER of God. Anistemi then is NOT about the giving of the Holy Spirit but the work of God who has eternal life.
                                The anistemi has NOTHING to do with anabaino.


                                You start off correct "Jesus was declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead". Here you are 100% matching what scripture states. Where you err and move away from what scripture actually says is connecting this with the LATER giving of the Holy Spirit whihc is AFTER the 2nd anabaino. Moreover scripture NEVER equates Jesus rising from the dead with the Holy Spirit, but instead notes that Jesus was involved and the Father was involved.
                                The conferment of the powerful assurance of the Holy Spirit is a SECOND assurance SEPARATE to the assurance based upon Jesus rising from the dead, and is connected with Jesus' second anabaino as stated UNEQUIVOCALLY in Acts 1, which I quoted for you.
                                You SEEM to think that because the word "assurance" is used so there is ONLY one assurance. In fact God usually has TWO witnesses for most things.
                                Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                                Neither Peter or Paul included the giving of the Holy Spirit at the 1st anabaino. In fact NEITHER even make reference to that 1st anabaino.
                                Also NEITHER Peter nor Paul equate the giving of the Holy Spirit with anistemi. There are NO verses saying this.
                                It is true that for the SAME reason that anistemi is not mentioned neither is egeiro mentioned in relation to the giving of the Holy Spirit.
                                Anistemi and egeiro ARE used synonymously in numerous places BOTH for the rising of the dead, and in another instance of rising (meaning simply to stand).
                                The ONLY conclusion that can be made is that anistemi is NOT synonymous with anabaino.
                                You still reject that Paul saying the gift of the Holy Ghost is [not] the assurance of the anistemi? You have a vain hope if you think that you can be saved without the Holy Ghost.

                                Rom 8:9 KJV But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

                                1Co 12:27-30 KJV 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

                                So let me ask you again. Do you have to speak in tongues to be saved? [I hope you can say no]. So why would you say that the apostles were not saved when they seen Jesus and believed? Why would you possibly believe that they didn't receive the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them? Why would you believe that Jesus was not glorified on that day? Why would think that Jesus was not ordained to sit on David's throne on that day? Why would you not believe that God said, "This day, you art my Son" on that day?

                                When did God say, "this day, you art my son"?
                                At the 1st anabaino or the 2nd? When did Jesus present himself to the Father as the high priest for all the world? At the 1st or 2nd anabaino?

                                Heb 5:2-14 KJV 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. 11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

                                I sure hope you don't still say it was the 2nd after reading Hebrews 5?

                                Be Blessed
                                The PuP

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