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What verse indicates that Jesus returns to Heaven after the reapture of all saints?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by FreeGrace View Post
    The common evangelical view is that Jesus comes to earth to resurrect and rapture all believers and takes them back to Heaven, all before the Great Tribulation. So, what verse or verses teach that Jesus takes all raptured believers to Heaven? Thanks.
    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post

    Rev. 19: tells us the Bride COME BACK with Jesus on White Horses while the Beast and his minions are STILL ON EARTH, you reckon that takes a Rapture?
    No, Rev 19 says the "armies of heaven" come with Jesus. No mention of the Bride in ch 19. The passages that are claimed to be a pre-Trib rapture/resurrection (1 Cor 15;52 and 1 Thess 4ff) are parallel to clear passages about the 2nd Advent.

    In Rev. 14:14 we see Jesus Rapturing the Church from up on a CLOUD Hmmmmmmm.
    No I don't see that at all. Here's the verse: I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.

    That is a flashback, since Rev. 14 is THE HARVEST CHAPTER, all of the Harvest can't be shown without a flashback or flash-forward. Jesus shows up and Harvests the Wheat (Israel/144,000) in Rev. 14:1 and Harvests the Wicked tares in verses17-20. BUT.......in a flashback Jesus Raptures the Church in verse 14.
    What translation says that? None of the translations in Biblehub.com mention the Church. Or a rapture.

    We see the Church in Heaven in Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9, BEFORE the Seals, are opened.
    These are those who have already died throughout the ages.

    This is not a hard subject, we just have a lot of hard-headed people in this world who are not really called to teach the bible, trying to teach the bible, and it really irks me that they lead people down rabbit holes.
    What "rabbit hole" are you referring to here? This thread is simply trying to get people who believe in a pre-Trib rapture to have clear Scripture that supports their view.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by angelmike View Post

      I want to know when did the church that is invited, transform to the bride. You do not read the scripture, but quote your own view that you have taken over from someone. Nowhere in the Bible are the saints called the bride. Where you have dug up this idea goes beyond my mind.
      In Rev. 19, on the WAY BACK from the Marriage. Armageddon is the Marriage Feast.

      KEEP UP MAN............Its simple stuff.

      Rev. 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready(Raptured Church) 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

      2 + 2 = 4

      14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean (SAINTS).

      2 + 2 = 4

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post

        In Rev. 19, on the WAY BACK from the Marriage. Armageddon is the Marriage Feast.

        KEEP UP MAN............Its simple stuff.

        Rev. 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready(Raptured Church) 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

        2 + 2 = 4

        14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean (SAINTS).

        2 + 2 = 4
        You have a pro and con.
        Con: This scripture says nothing about going to heaven with Jesus.
        Pro: But It refutes the post Trib notion that the saints meet Jesus as, or after he is descending. It says the armies which are in heaven.

        Be Blessed
        The PuP

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post

          In Rev. 19, on the WAY BACK from the Marriage. Armageddon is the Marriage Feast.

          KEEP UP MAN............Its simple stuff.

          Rev. 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready(Raptured Church) 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

          2 + 2 = 4

          14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean (SAINTS).

          2 + 2 = 4
          Unfortunately, I only see your own ideas and opinion you make. It seems you do not understand the scripture or you can not read. Your answer is far from complete with regard to the question I asked you. All you give me is rotten goat food. If possible, try to answer my question without frivolous bigotry. After all, we are grown men who cut the word right and do not reason like children.
          To God be the Glory

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post

            You have a pro and con.
            Con: This scripture says nothing about going to heaven with Jesus.
            Pro: But It refutes the post Trib notion that the saints meet Jesus as, or after he is descending. It says the armies which are in heaven.
            Be Blessed
            The PuP
            The "armies which are in heaven" would include angels AND all saints who have already died and are in heaven. Review 1 Thess 4:14. "For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him."

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
              .
              Pro: But It refutes the post Trib notion that the saints meet Jesus as, or after he is descending. It says the armies which are in heaven.

              Be Blessed
              The PuP
              The "armies of heaven" would include both angels AND all believers who have already died and are in heaven. We know that Jesus is accompanied by those who have "fallen asleep" already.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post

                You have a pro and con.
                Con: This scripture says nothing about going to heaven with Jesus.
                Pro: But It refutes the post Trib notion that the saints meet Jesus as, or after he is descending. It says the armies which are in heaven.

                Be Blessed
                The PuP
                No cons, you can't come back from Georgia unless you went to Georgia to start with. Likewise, if we come back from Heaven, that means we were in Heaven before we journeyed back. The Bride and Groom always stay on the fathers house for 7 days. We are seen in Heaven in Rev. 4:4 and 5:9 BEFORE the Seals are even opened.


                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by FreeGrace View Post
                  The "armies of heaven" would include both angels AND all believers who have already died and are in heaven. We know that Jesus is accompanied by those who have "fallen asleep" already.
                  Reread 1 Cor. 15, NO ONE goes to Heaven when they die, only at the Rapture, THE DEAD arise first then we are CHANGED from Flesh men to Spirit men in the flash of a twinkling eye, and we, along with the Dead who arise as Spirit men, all got to Heaven. Jesus is bringing back those he raptured from the Grave and those ALIVE who he Raptured up to Heaven. (HINT: at the Rapture we DIE.......That is what changing in the twinkling of an eye means)

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post

                    Reread 1 Cor. 15, NO ONE goes to Heaven when they die, only at the Rapture
                    You don't have any of this correct. Saved people do got o heaven when they die. Even the OT tells us this plus there are dead people in heaven in the 5th seal. How did they get there??

                    And the rapture takes people to the clouds of the Earth not to heaven. Jesus doesn't even return to heaven once he leaves it to meet the raptured saints.

                    (HINT: at the Rapture we DIE.......That is what changing in the twinkling of an eye means)
                    Another false teaching. You don't appear to understand anything correctly. The people who are raptured do not die. Paul literally says that. They are alive and mortal and then they are changed into immortals and then are raptured. There is no death there.


                    1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

                    My advice is to stop teaching completely because you have everything wrong.
                    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
                      This is my last response in this matter (feel free to rebut) because you cannot understand the plain language of Jesus and the Apostles.
                      The language is indeed PLAIN, but you try to make it more complicated than it is!

                      Jesus said, and reiterated by the apostles,
                      "In a little while, ye shall not see me...BECAUSE I go to the Father "
                      Misquoting is NEVER a good idea. What Jesus ACTUALLY said was:
                      Joh 16:16 “A little while, and you will see me no longer; and again a little while, and you will see me.”
                      A little while and they will no longer see Him, was the next day He was taken and crucified and was buried.
                      Then they had sorrow while the world rejoiced.
                      However there sorrow was turned to joy BECAUSE:
                      A little while AFTER His death He rose from the grave and met them. He was ALIVE. This gave the disciples joy.

                      Joh 16:22 So also you have sorrow now, but I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you.
                      After they met the risen Jesus they had joy which was not taken away.
                      This is what Jesus was talking about.
                      He was NOT saying "After a little while, you will no longer see me, and you will not see me until I return in a long time (more than two thousand years)."

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post

                        Reread 1 Cor. 15, NO ONE goes to Heaven when they die, only at the Rapture,
                        Huh?? So, where do all saved people go when they die up to now?

                        THE DEAD arise first then we are CHANGED from Flesh men to Spirit men in the flash of a twinkling eye, and we, along with the Dead who arise as Spirit men, all got to Heaven.
                        Except...there is NO mention of anyone going to heaven in 1 Cor 15. In fact, in NONE of the so-called "rapture" verses/passages is there any mention of going to heaven. So, what evidence is there to conclude that people are resurrected and taken to heaven? Thanks.

                        Jesus is bringing back those he raptured from the Grave and those ALIVE who he Raptured up to Heaven.
                        I can't make sense out of this statement. Again, what evidence is there that anyone who is raptured is taken up to heaven?

                        (HINT: at the Rapture we DIE.......That is what changing in the twinkling of an eye means)
                        No it doesn't. In fact, Paul made it clear that OUR bodies are changed. That doesn't mean physical death. Physical death means separation of soul from body. What did James say about it?

                        James 2:26 - As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

                        And Paul said nothing about the believer's soul leaving the physical body and entering another body. No. He said clearly that our physical bodies will be changed. That isn't death.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                          The language is indeed PLAIN, but you try to make it more complicated than it is!


                          Misquoting is NEVER a good idea. What Jesus ACTUALLY said was:
                          Joh 16:16 “A little while, and you will see me no longer; and again a little while, and you will see me.”
                          A little while and they will no longer see Him, was the next day He was taken and crucified and was buried.
                          Then they had sorrow while the world rejoiced.
                          However there sorrow was turned to joy BECAUSE:
                          A little while AFTER His death He rose from the grave and met them. He was ALIVE. This gave the disciples joy.

                          Joh 16:22 So also you have sorrow now, but I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you.
                          After they met the risen Jesus they had joy which was not taken away.
                          This is what Jesus was talking about.
                          He was NOT saying "After a little while, you will no longer see me, and you will not see me until I return in a long time (more than two thousand years)."
                          Joh 7:33 KJV Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post

                            Joh 7:33 KJV Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.
                            This thread is about verses that indicate that Jesus takes believer back to heaven (before the Tribulation) when He resurrects them. Your posts have nothing to do with the thread. Could you start a new thread please?

                            And, since John 7:33 was a statement from Jesus BEFORE He died on the cross, of course He was going to heaven. But that has nothing to do with any rapture.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
                              Joh 7:33 KJV Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.
                              And?
                              Again I notice you do NOT quote the whole passage:
                              Joh 7:33 Jesus then said, “I will be with you a little longer, and then I am going to him who sent me.
                              Joh 7:34 You will seek me and you will not find me. Where I am you cannot come.”

                              Notice that WHEN Jesus goes to be with the Father, He explicitly says "you CANNOT come."
                              Nowhere ever in any scripture does Jesus have us going to the 3rd heaven where the Father presently resides.
                              Instead we are given an opposite statement, that where He goes to AFTER He rises, we CANNOT go.
                              Again this is PLAIN and SIMPLE language.
                              You try to misquote and misrepresent what is stated clearly in each passage. This is commonly known as eisegesis, for you take one thing from one passage and make it about another.
                              You see when we rise we do NOT go to where Jesus PRESENTLY is, but we go to where He will descend to, which is the clouds!
                              This is why the Rapture (to the 3rd heaven) is a nonsense.
                              I take what Jesus plainly told the disciples as being the TRUTH, we CANNOT go there.
                              However after the little longer Jesus was gone and THEN He came back to them. He was anistemi WHILST on the earth as Mark 16:9 notes.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by ForHisglory View Post
                                And?
                                Again I notice you do NOT quote the whole passage:
                                Joh 7:33 Jesus then said, “I will be with you a little longer, and then I am going to him who sent me.
                                Joh 7:34 You will seek me and you will not find me. Where I am you cannot come.”

                                Notice that WHEN Jesus goes to be with the Father, He explicitly says "you CANNOT come."
                                Nowhere ever in any scripture does Jesus have us going to the 3rd heaven where the Father presently resides.
                                Instead we are given an opposite statement, that where He goes to AFTER He rises, we CANNOT go.
                                Again this is PLAIN and SIMPLE language.
                                You try to misquote and misrepresent what is stated clearly in each passage. This is commonly known as eisegesis, for you take one thing from one passage and make it about another.
                                You see when we rise we do NOT go to where Jesus PRESENTLY is, but we go to where He will descend to, which is the clouds!
                                This is why the Rapture (to the 3rd heaven) is a nonsense.
                                I take what Jesus plainly told the disciples as being the TRUTH, we CANNOT go there.
                                However after the little longer Jesus was gone and THEN He came back to them. He was anistemi WHILST on the earth as Mark 16:9 notes.
                                The misunderstanding is all on your part. Let me show you the insanity of what you believe. You claim that the disciples [are] NOW sad because Jesus IS CURRENTLY gone for a little while to the Father. Have you no joy? Mary Magdalene was weeping and crying before she seen Jesus. Why?

                                Joh 20:13 KJV And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.

                                So what [happened] when she saw him? And what about the apostles?

                                Joh 20:18 KJV Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

                                Mar 16:10 KJV And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.

                                Joh 20:20 KJV And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

                                You are completely confused about the little while.

                                Joh 16:20 KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

                                You think the disciples are still sad because Jesus IS gone a little while to the Father, and they are sad because he is [STILL] gone for a little while. Peter preached this about David's hope:

                                Act 2:26-34 KJV Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also

                                MY FLESH SHALL REST in HOPE:

                                [WHY?]
                                BECAUSE thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

                                Why was Jesus gone for a little while?

                                Joh 16:16-17 KJV A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me,
                                BECAUSE I go to the Father. Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, BECAUSE I GO TO the Father?

                                [Joh 16:20 KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.] (Are you still sad because Jesus is still gone for a little while? )

                                Joh 7:33-34 KJV Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while AM I WITH YOU,
                                and then I go unto him that sent me.

                                Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.

                                A LITTLE WHILE, I AM WITH YOU...and THEN I go!

                                [IN] A LITTLE WHILE, YE SHALL NOT SEE ME,
                                BECAUSE I got to the Father ... and THEN shall you see me.

                                You are mistakenly still living in the time before "THEN" occurs. David said that my flesh rests in hope because of the resurrection. Peter said that we have a lively hope, because of the resurrection. Paul said that the appearance of Christ is the Blessed hope, because we shall be like [him], when we shall see him as he is. We have the Holy Ghost full of the glory and of the countenance of Christ, because Jesus was glorified when he ascended to the Father. Do you have any joy? I [am] beginning to doubt [this] because you are still living in the "then", [waiting for Christ to come back from his "little while" with the Father]. Christ ascended and gave gifts to all men WHEN HE descended back to earth. [The gifts of the Holy Ghost were not given until Jesus ascended to the Father, and subsequently descended into the lower parts of the earth and gave gifts into men].

                                [Eph 4:9-10 KJV 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)]

                                Be Blessed
                                The PuP

                                Note: edits are in brackets.

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