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Marriage supper of the Lamb

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  • #61
    Re: Marriage supper of the Lamb

    Originally posted by breathoflife View Post
    Hi, one of the most interesting things of that so called “Last Supper” was the Lord’s claim that it would not be fulfilled until it was done in the kingdom. I had always believed the Lord had fulfilled the Passover through His sacrifice but there it is Luke 22:16 the Lord declaring it was not fulfilled. I was puzzled to say the least. Then I began to see how the Bridegroom was dealing with His future Bride. The Bridegroom proposed to the Bride telling her all he would do including going to His Father to prepare a place for her and to come back for her. If the Bride accepted when given the cup she would take and drink. This the Bride did that night in the person of the disciples. The Bride has been signaling her faith in all He has said and promised to do.
    One of the keys to seeing this came from the interchange about why the Lord’s disciples did not fast as the others in Israel were fasting. The Lord said while the Bridegroom was with the Bride she could not fast but the days were coming when the Bridegroom would be taken and then she would fast. If you have ever been to The Seder meal you will find a huge meal and celebration and will easily see how our Lord’s Supper is the fast the Lord foretold His Bride would eat. The Wedding Supper of the Lamb when the fast will end and the greatest celebration there will ever be will begin.
    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    I didn't read the whole thread, but I'll just give you my view in a nutshell.

    The marriage supper of the Lamb is the celebration of Christ's return for his people. His people represent the Bride of Christ. The union takes place at the resurrection of the saints. We then are able to share a new kind of communion, enjoying the beginning of immortality for us.

    The destruction of the armies of the Antichrist at Armageddon is a completely different kind of feast. The birds represent scavengers who clean up all the bodies of the dead, who have been judged by God in that war.

    The birds could indeed be quite literal. The existence of metaphors in the prophecy certainly does not mean everything in the prophecy is purely symbolic.

    On the contrary, the sword that comes out of the mouth of Christ symbolizes his tongue, or his word, which judges the armies of the Antichrist. But men are quite literally killed in this great battle among nations on earth.

    God arranges for the war to take place as a judgment against the armies of the Antichrist, along with many others on earth who are guilty of gross sins. Then the bodies are disposed of as if they were unclean animals.
    The thing that throws most of these arguments into disarray is the fact all the predictions of the Church show it apostatizing. This reaches its zenith at the end of the age with all but a few "OVERCOMERS" meeting the Lord's requirements. The Parables of the Lord's coming find many of His servants, who make up the Bride (2nd Cor.11:2), worthy of being cast out of the Kingdom and/or the Wedding Feast (the Talents, the Pounds, the Virgins, the Garment etc.). The last Church mentioned, Laodicea, is an utter shambles with Christ locked out - far from a Bride eagerly awaiting her Bridegroom. And Revelation 13:7 shows the saints being overcome by the Beast. This all flies in the face of the inspired statement in Ephesians 5:27; "That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

    The question is, how can any student of the Bible, when faced with the disaster that is the Church, with the evidence before our very eyes today, say that the Church is "glorious", "without spot", "without wrinkle OR ANY SUCH THING", and that it is "holy" and without blemish? Where then is the MARRIAGE? Is Christ to be joined to a Church full of adultery, murder, thievery, incest, rape, corruption and love of money?

    And finally, in every case in the gospels, our Lord Jesus alluded to the Marriage FEAST every time. The UNION of man and wife He never mentions. And at His return in Revelation 19:9 AGAIN, the Marriage FEAST is spoken of but not the UNION. In verse 7 the Wedding is spoken of but this the nuptials - not the union. For marriage to take place in the Bible a UNION must take place.

    "And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death" (Genesis 24:67)

    May I submit that the Wedding Feast starts at the dawn of the Millennium when five Virgins who were waiting for their Bridegroom are refused entry for not caring to "buy" oil for their Vessels (not Lamps), but the UNION only takes place AFTER the Millennium in Revelation 21:1-2.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Marriage supper of the Lamb

      Originally posted by Walls View Post
      The question is, how can any student of the Bible, when faced with the disaster that is the Church, with the evidence before our very eyes today, say that the Church is "glorious", "without spot", "without wrinkle OR ANY SUCH THING", and that it is "holy" and without blemish? Where then is the MARRIAGE? Is Christ to be joined to a Church full of adultery, murder, thievery, incest, rape, corruption and love of money?
      Hi Walls, this attempted answer is from just another mediocre student of the Bible.

      The difference in what God see, and what we men see is incredibly dim on our part.
      The difference between how God thinks (His ways), and how we think (our ways) is incredibly dim on our part.

      To specifically address your very legitimate concern over man's perception of the worthiness of what God titles as His Lamb's spotless bride:
      Luke 18:26-27
      And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved ?
      And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
      Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
      Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Marriage supper of the Lamb

        Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
        Hi Walls, this attempted answer is from just another mediocre student of the Bible.

        The difference in what God see, and what we men see is incredibly dim on our part.
        The difference between how God thinks (His ways), and how we think (our ways) is incredibly dim on our part.

        To specifically address your very legitimate concern over man's perception of the worthiness of what God titles as His Lamb's spotless bride:
        Luke 18:26-27
        And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved ?
        And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
        Aye! Were it not OF God, NOTHING would be achieved. But concerning what God sees and thinks, why, this is what we discuss - God's Words which transmit HIS thoughts and perceptions.

        I propose that the answer lies in exactly that which we see. A REMNANT of "Overcomers", who remained faithful to Christ, obeyed Him as Head of the Body, ate Him as spiritual nourishment, denied themselves, shunned the world and had an intimate walk with Him, - a small percentage of Christians who are REWARDED with both entry into the Millennial Kingdom as co-kings with Christ, AND by being allowed into the Wedding FEAST as guests. The bulk of Christianity is judged by Christ at His Judgement Seat to be UNWORTHY of YET being co-kings and the Bride. They pass though the Millennium under chastisement and further training so that at the END of the Millennium they are ready. Let's look at a few facts to support this:
        1. When our Lord declared the coming Millennial Kingdom He said that of the many called, few would be chosen. Matthew 20:1-16 says; "1 For the kingdom of heaven is like ... 16 ... for many be called, but few chosen."
        2. When our Lord declared the Marriage (dinner) He alluded to how many would be guests in Matthew 22:2-14. "2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage-feast for his son, ... 14 For many are called, but few are chosen."
        3. In Matthew Chapter 5 it says He taught HIS disciples in verses 1-2 and thus the threat of verses 25-26 must be for HIS Disciples. It reads: "1... and when he was set, HIS disciples came unto him. 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught THEM, saying, ... 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing." That is, DISCIPLES will be put in prison but let out when the price has been paid.
        4. In Matthew 25 the Virgins are the SAME in 7 points and different in only 1 point. (1) They were all Virgins, (2) they all had Lamps burning, (3) they all went forth to meet the Bridegroom, (4) they all slept because the Bridegroom delayed, (5) they were all raised when the Bridegroom came, not after the Millennium, (6) they were all invited to the Wedding Feast when they awoke, and (7) they all had extra vessels for more oil. They were DIFFERENT is only one thing - the wise KNEW that extra oil was to be BOUGHT (a price paid). The foolish Virgins are always called Virgins even when they fail. And they are still called Virgins when they return with more oil. They are refused entry even when they had the right amount of oil showing that the BOUGHT oil was not a only a requirement for the Wedding Feast, but it was to be REWARDED. But notice, even after they are refused entry with the right amount of oil, they are still called Virgins.
        5. To Christians are written the dire warnings of 1st Corinthians 6:10, Galatians 5:21 and Ephesians 5:5.

        There are many more, but before us we have the Lord Jesus ADDRESSING CHRISTIANS and warning them that the Millennial Kingdom hangs in the balance for them, and that FEW will make it. I propose that those Christians who are not ready when Christ returns will be shut out of the Millennial Kingdom, and the 1,000 years will be used for their FORCED sanctification. Those disciples who are cut out of the Millennial Kingdom "weep and gnash their teeth", but after the millennial Kingdom (1) they are prepared as a Bride, and (2) God wipes away their tears (Matt.8:12, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, Lk.13:28; Rev.21:1-2). At no time do they stop being Disciples, Christians and/or Christ's Virgins, but their time of sanctification is outside the age of grace.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Marriage supper of the Lamb

          Originally posted by Walls View Post
          Aye! Were it not OF God, NOTHING would be achieved. But concerning what God sees and thinks, why, this is what we discuss - God's Words which transmit HIS thoughts and perceptions.

          I propose that the answer lies in exactly that which we see. A REMNANT of "Overcomers", who remained faithful to Christ, obeyed Him as Head of the Body, ate Him as spiritual nourishment, denied themselves, shunned the world and had an intimate walk with Him, - a small percentage of Christians who are REWARDED with both entry into the Millennial Kingdom as co-kings with Christ, AND by being allowed into the Wedding FEAST as guests. The bulk of Christianity is judged by Christ at His Judgement Seat to be UNWORTHY of YET being co-kings and the Bride. They pass though the Millennium under chastisement and further training so that at the END of the Millennium they are ready. Let's look at a few facts to support this:
          1. When our Lord declared the coming Millennial Kingdom He said that of the many called, few would be chosen. Matthew 20:1-16 says; "1 For the kingdom of heaven is like ... 16 ... for many be called, but few chosen."
          2. When our Lord declared the Marriage (dinner) He alluded to how many would be guests in Matthew 22:2-14. "2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage-feast for his son, ... 14 For many are called, but few are chosen."
          3. In Matthew Chapter 5 it says He taught HIS disciples in verses 1-2 and thus the threat of verses 25-26 must be for HIS Disciples. It reads: "1... and when he was set, HIS disciples came unto him. 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught THEM, saying, ... 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing." That is, DISCIPLES will be put in prison but let out when the price has been paid.
          4. In Matthew 25 the Virgins are the SAME in 7 points and different in only 1 point. (1) They were all Virgins, (2) they all had Lamps burning, (3) they all went forth to meet the Bridegroom, (4) they all slept because the Bridegroom delayed, (5) they were all raised when the Bridegroom came, not after the Millennium, (6) they were all invited to the Wedding Feast when they awoke, and (7) they all had extra vessels for more oil. They were DIFFERENT is only one thing - the wise KNEW that extra oil was to be BOUGHT (a price paid). The foolish Virgins are always called Virgins even when they fail. And they are still called Virgins when they return with more oil. They are refused entry even when they had the right amount of oil showing that the BOUGHT oil was not a only a requirement for the Wedding Feast, but it was to be REWARDED. But notice, even after they are refused entry with the right amount of oil, they are still called Virgins.
          5. To Christians are written the dire warnings of 1st Corinthians 6:10, Galatians 5:21 and Ephesians 5:5.

          There are many more, but before us we have the Lord Jesus ADDRESSING CHRISTIANS and warning them that the Millennial Kingdom hangs in the balance for them, and that FEW will make it. I propose that those Christians who are not ready when Christ returns will be shut out of the Millennial Kingdom, and the 1,000 years will be used for their FORCED sanctification. Those disciples who are cut out of the Millennial Kingdom "weep and gnash their teeth", but after the millennial Kingdom (1) they are prepared as a Bride, and (2) God wipes away their tears (Matt.8:12, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, Lk.13:28; Rev.21:1-2). At no time do they stop being Disciples, Christians and/or Christ's Virgins, but their time of sanctification is outside the age of grace.
          God bless you brother.
          I cannot find a place in your words here that I can disagree with.

          My initial post here to you was a quick summary in an effort to answer what I saw as a rhetorical question posed by you. ie: How can such a filthy body of believers be seen by God as spotless and worthy of being His Lamb's bride.

          I understand that many are called (even many respond to that calling) but few are chosen of them.
          But in man's eyes even those few are filthy when measured by God's standards, but yet God accepts those few as spotless and worthy of being His Son's Bride.
          Why He does see those chosen few as worthy is because He sees clearly what me men can only see dimly(at best). And also what those few chosen can only attempt to do, He can do absolutely do.
          Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
          Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Marriage supper of the Lamb

            Originally posted by Walls View Post
            The thing that throws most of these arguments into disarray is the fact all the predictions of the Church show it apostatizing. This reaches its zenith at the end of the age with all but a few "OVERCOMERS" meeting the Lord's requirements. The Parables of the Lord's coming find many of His servants, who make up the Bride (2nd Cor.11:2), worthy of being cast out of the Kingdom and/or the Wedding Feast (the Talents, the Pounds, the Virgins, the Garment etc.). The last Church mentioned, Laodicea, is an utter shambles with Christ locked out - far from a Bride eagerly awaiting her Bridegroom. And Revelation 13:7 shows the saints being overcome by the Beast. This all flies in the face of the inspired statement in Ephesians 5:27; "That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

            The question is, how can any student of the Bible, when faced with the disaster that is the Church, with the evidence before our very eyes today, say that the Church is "glorious", "without spot", "without wrinkle OR ANY SUCH THING", and that it is "holy" and without blemish? Where then is the MARRIAGE? Is Christ to be joined to a Church full of adultery, murder, thievery, incest, rape, corruption and love of money?

            And finally, in every case in the gospels, our Lord Jesus alluded to the Marriage FEAST every time. The UNION of man and wife He never mentions. And at His return in Revelation 19:9 AGAIN, the Marriage FEAST is spoken of but not the UNION. In verse 7 the Wedding is spoken of but this the nuptials - not the union. For marriage to take place in the Bible a UNION must take place.

            "And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death" (Genesis 24:67)

            May I submit that the Wedding Feast starts at the dawn of the Millennium when five Virgins who were waiting for their Bridegroom are refused entry for not caring to "buy" oil for their Vessels (not Lamps), but the UNION only takes place AFTER the Millennium in Revelation 21:1-2.
            Sounds like you're Pretrib? If so, that's okay--we would simply disagree. Christians have already been united with Christ. But the marriage being spoken of in Revelation appears to do with the union of the immortal Church with the immortal Christ.

            Christ came the 1st time at a time in Israel's history when they were in decline, and in great apostasy. Nations aren't always like this, but Christ chose to come when Israel's religion had been disgraced and was soon to be disposed of. The Law came to an end, and the system of Grace replaced it.

            At the end of the age, we see Christian civilization following the same pattern as Israel. Christian nations are in great apostasy, and will soon be judged. However, this does not mean that the Church has disappeared. Only the civilization and the national governments have gone bad, along with the majority of the peoples of these nations.

            The Church, though reduced to minorities within these former Christian nations, are still loyal to Christ. I think you're mischaracterizing this. The Church in the time of the apostles were also minorities within a pagan Roman Empire. And yet they were a group of loyal Christians, who can be seen as united with Christ, and legally yoked to him. Still, final marital union takes place at the resurrection, in my opinion.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Marriage supper of the Lamb

              Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
              God bless you brother.
              I cannot find a place in your words here that I can disagree with.

              My initial post here to you was a quick summary in an effort to answer what I saw as a rhetorical question posed by you. ie: How can such a filthy body of believers be seen by God as spotless and worthy of being His Lamb's bride.

              I understand that many are called (even many respond to that calling) but few are chosen of them.
              But in man's eyes even those few are filthy when measured by God's standards, but yet God accepts those few as spotless and worthy of being His Son's Bride.
              Why He does see those chosen few as worthy is because He sees clearly what me men can only see dimly(at best). And also what those few chosen can only attempt to do, He can do absolutely do.
              Thank you for your response. You are correct in what you say. I should have addressed it in my posting. The Christian has TWO standings with God:
              1. His POSITION in Christ.
              2. His DISPOSITION in himself
              1. Because "all have fallen short of the glory of God", and because God is an absolutely holy God, He cannot look upon even the best of us. So what He does to overcome this and rent the Veil to where He lives, He puts us IN Christ. Because the New Man has its original IN Christ, God reckons us Christians to have proceeded from WITHIN Christ and to ABIDE WITHIN Christ. In this we have all the affection and fellowship accorded to Jesus His beloved Son (Rom.5:2; Eph.2:18, 3:12). This is our POSITION.
              2. But God also has us as His TESTIMONY on earth. So He requires that we be "light" and "salt". Here, WE are expected to PERFORM. WE are expected to shun sin and the world, and deny the soul and the flesh. WE are expected to love one another and our neighbor. WE are expected to help the poor and sick. That is, our DISPOSITION counts. It is what the Christian DOES when He either obeys or disobeys Christ his Head. And for these deeds we stand Judgement one day (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10).

              And it is this second point that absorbed by earlier postings. I am in full agreement with your understanding that our POSITION before God is covered by Christ. We could not otherwise approach God and have access to Him.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Marriage supper of the Lamb

                Originally posted by randyk View Post
                Sounds like you're Pretrib? If so, that's okay--we would simply disagree. Christians have already been united with Christ. But the marriage being spoken of in Revelation appears to do with the union of the immortal Church with the immortal Christ.

                Christ came the 1st time at a time in Israel's history when they were in decline, and in great apostasy. Nations aren't always like this, but Christ chose to come when Israel's religion had been disgraced and was soon to be disposed of. The Law came to an end, and the system of Grace replaced it.

                At the end of the age, we see Christian civilization following the same pattern as Israel. Christian nations are in great apostasy, and will soon be judged. However, this does not mean that the Church has disappeared. Only the civilization and the national governments have gone bad, along with the majority of the peoples of these nations.

                The Church, though reduced to minorities within these former Christian nations, are still loyal to Christ. I think you're mischaracterizing this. The Church in the time of the apostles were also minorities within a pagan Roman Empire. And yet they were a group of loyal Christians, who can be seen as united with Christ, and legally yoked to him. Still, final marital union takes place at the resurrection, in my opinion.
                Thank you for your answer. I guess our essential difference is that I see the Church as a New Man taken OUT OF the nation of Israel and OUT OF the Gentile nations (Eph.2:15). It is a whole new and separate entity and called to separate itself from both Israel and the Gentiles. The Gentiles will rule till Christ sets up His Kingdom as per Daniel 2. I see NO Christian Nations. I see only the Gentiles ruling with the Lord saying that He puts the basest of men over them (Dan.4:17) and that we are to shun their ways. I also see only two types of Christian. (1) Those intimately one with, and fervently serving, the Lord Jesus, and (2) those slothful, sinful, lukewarm and self-serving Christians. The Judgment Seat of Christ will divide them, the first group REWARDED, and the second group CHASTISED.

                But I also see God's salvation immovable and forever. Sonship is not removed. The chastisement is to PRODUCE RIGHTEOUSNESS, and anon, those under chastisement, though it be grievous, will be exercised by it. Only then will Christ's Bride we "without spot and blemish and holy".

                Comment

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