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  • Satan definitely Restrains

    Please note, this thread is only for those who are already expecting a future antichrist and a future tribulation period, I do not want this thread derailed into a futurist/historicist/preterist type debate, please respect this.

    We are often trying to identify who the restrainer is of 2 Thess 2:
    And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming

    Now let's forget about those verses for now, and focus on certain logic:

    Imagine a terrorist is completely surrounded and he has a bomb attached to himself and a gun in his hand. He knows that he will die because he is surrounded, in the meantime he is enjoying taking shots at the enemy. If he chooses to delay using the bomb because he wants to live a little longer, and is therefore saving the bomb until the really last moment, is that terrorist restraining himself? I would say he is, because he can use the bomb, and yet would rather delay it.

    A similar situation is described in Rev 12. This is clearly about an event that happens DURING the church age, because it involves believers in the lamb, which can only be a church age situation:

    12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
    12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
    12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
    12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

    So during the church age, satan is fighting to stay in heaven, yet his wrath is MORE during the short period that he is cast out of heaven. Thus Satan is clearly fighting to stay in a place where his wrath is LESS, and does not want to go to the place where his wrath is MORE. This is not confusing, because the reason is spelt out to us very clearly, when he is cast to earth he will have "great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time".

    So he is like that terrorist, delaying (restraining/withholding) the bomb so he can enjoy a few kills before the bomb goes off, Satan is delaying his full manifestation so he can kill/rob/destroy/accuse a little longer. In 2 Peter 3 it is clear we can hasten the end, guess what, Satan is delaying the end, Rev 12 is clear that he fights to STAY in heaven, not to go to earth to manifest himself in full wrath.
    We always assume Satan can't wait to manifest himself here on earth for 3.5 years of tribulation, the bible says , no, Satan does not want that short period of wrath, and he will be angry when forced into it by the church overcoming him through our testimony (I believe this could be referring to us preaching to all nations, and then the end will come).

    So whether Satan is the restrainer of 2 Thess or not, Satan certainly is a restrainer, and Rev 12 is clear of the time period, when Satan is taken out of the way (removed from heaven by the testimony of the saints), Satan's wrath will manifest for 3.5 years (time/times and half a time v14) of persecution, and it is a common doctrine that the persecution of the antichrist will be for 3.5 years.

    Conclusion: According to Rev 12, Satan is a restrainer that needs to be taken out of the way (removed from heaven). When this happens there will be more wrath and tribulation on earth and 3.5 years of persecution.

    2 Thess :The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing

    Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

  • #2
    Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Please note, this thread is only for those who are already expecting a future antichrist and a future tribulation period, I do not want this thread derailed into a futurist/historicist/preterist type debate, please respect this.

    We are often trying to identify who the restrainer is of 2 Thess 2:
    And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming

    Now let's forget about those verses for now, and focus on certain logic:

    Imagine a terrorist is completely surrounded and he has a bomb attached to himself and a gun in his hand. He knows that he will die because he is surrounded, in the meantime he is enjoying taking shots at the enemy. If he chooses to delay using the bomb because he wants to live a little longer, and is therefore saving the bomb until the really last moment, is that terrorist restraining himself? I would say he is, because he can use the bomb, and yet would rather delay it.

    A similar situation is described in Rev 12. This is clearly about an event that happens DURING the church age, because it involves believers in the lamb, which can only be a church age situation:

    12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
    12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
    12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
    12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

    So during the church age, satan is fighting to stay in heaven, yet his wrath is MORE during the short period that he is cast out of heaven. Thus Satan is clearly fighting to stay in a place where his wrath is LESS, and does not want to go to the place where his wrath is MORE. This is not confusing, because the reason is spelt out to us very clearly, when he is cast to earth he will have "great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time".

    So he is like that terrorist, delaying (restraining/withholding) the bomb so he can enjoy a few kills before the bomb goes off, Satan is delaying his full manifestation so he can kill/rob/destroy/accuse a little longer. In 2 Peter 3 it is clear we can hasten the end, guess what, Satan is delaying the end, Rev 12 is clear that he fights to STAY in heaven, not to go to earth to manifest himself in full wrath.
    We always assume Satan can't wait to manifest himself here on earth for 3.5 years of tribulation, the bible says , no, Satan does not want that short period of wrath, and he will be angry when forced into it by the church overcoming him through our testimony (I believe this could be referring to us preaching to all nations, and then the end will come).

    So whether Satan is the restrainer of 2 Thess or not, Satan certainly is a restrainer, and Rev 12 is clear of the time period, when Satan is taken out of the way (removed from heaven by the testimony of the saints), Satan's wrath will manifest for 3.5 years (time/times and half a time v14) of persecution, and it is a common doctrine that the persecution of the antichrist will be for 3.5 years.

    Conclusion: According to Rev 12, Satan is a restrainer that needs to be taken out of the way (removed from heaven). When this happens there will be more wrath and tribulation on earth and 3.5 years of persecution.

    2 Thess :The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing

    Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
    Would you say then that the antichrist that is here at Christs return will not be revealed until somewhere near the end?

    Firstfruits

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
      Would you say then that the antichrist that is here at Christs return will not be revealed until somewhere near the end?

      Firstfruits
      Hi firstfruits, yes, I would say that the antichrist will only be revealed 3.5 years before Jesus comes again. This fits in with the timing of Satan's period of great wrath of Revelation 12, during which he has great wrath for a short period of 3.5 years during which he persecutes the saints.

      Comment


      • #4
        Wow,

        I will study this more, but at first glance I think this may well be so.

        Here is what I KNOW. It can NOT be the Holy Spirit as some would suggest. We KNOW there are believers alive on earth during the Great Tribulation, and we KNOW that the Lord has promised never to leave believers without the Holy Spirit... so it CAN not be the Holy Spirit. I have heard some good arguements for various angelic beings, but nothing that seems clear.

        THank you for this, I am sure I will be looking into this more.

        Blessings,
        * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * ** * * * ** * *** * * * * ***** * * * * ** * * * * ** ** * *
        ~ * You get 10 'reps' to bless others with each day... don't log off until you have used them up......
        ....Live your life the same way.... ~ *

        Please pray for the 'Persecuted Church'.


        Bible Forums Vision: "To be a community of believers who are actively engaged in pursuing the truth of God as revealed in His Son Jesus Christ by way of studying the Scriptures diligently in order to discover this truth."


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
          Hi firstfruits, yes, I would say that the antichrist will only be revealed 3.5 years before Jesus comes again. This fits in with the timing of Satan's period of great wrath of Revelation 12, during which he has great wrath for a short period of 3.5 years during which he persecutes the saints.
          Is that therefore the antichrist as mentioned in the following scriptures?

          Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
          Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
          Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
          Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

          Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
          Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

          Firstfruits

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
            Is that therefore the antichrist as mentioned in the following scriptures?

            Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
            Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
            Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
            Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

            Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
            Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

            Firstfruits
            Hi firstfruits, I don't know how this is relevant to the thread, the thread is focussed on the possibility that Satan is the restrainer metioned in 2 Thessalonians.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
              Hi firstfruits, I don't know how this is relevant to the thread, the thread is focussed on the possibility that Satan is the restrainer metioned in 2 Thessalonians.
              Is it not the antichrist that is to be revealed after the restraining is done?

              2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

              2 Thess 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

              2 Thess 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

              Firstfruits

              Comment


              • #8
                yes., when the restraining is finished, the antichrist is revealed

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                  Is that therefore the antichrist as mentioned in the following scriptures?

                  Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
                  Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
                  Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
                  Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

                  Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
                  Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

                  Firstfruits
                  Yes, I personally believe that the imagery of beasts relates specifically to empires, unless the ocntext is obvious that the leader of that empire is referred to, in this case the antichrist.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                    Yes, I personally believe that the imagery of beasts relates specifically to empires, unless the ocntext is obvious that the leader of that empire is referred to, in this case the antichrist.
                    Would you say then that the restraining is not yet finished, and therefore the antichrist is yet to come?

                    Firstfruits

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, I believe satan is still accusing us in his heavenly place, and the antichrsit is still to come.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                        Yes, I believe satan is still accusing us in his heavenly place, and the antichrist is still to come.
                        Thanks DurbanDude,

                        Firstfruits

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