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  • #91
    Re: The White Horse

    All four horses are representing the same event. A devastating war in which the attacking army is vicious and victorious.
    The white horseman is given a bow, meaning the war is started from a distance. As the fighting intensifies the red horse appears with a sword, meaning close combat. The black horse representing famine appears. During the war , food and other needs will be scarce. Lastly, the pale horse shows the war causes many deaths.
    This echoes the same judgment that Ezekiel prophesied about Israel by Babylon.
    Ezekiel 12:14-16
    “I will scatter his servants and warriors to the four winds and send the sword after them.”
    **“And when I scatter them among the nations, they will know that I am the Lord.”
    “But I will spare a few of them from death by war, famine, or disease, so they can confess all their detestable sins to their captors. Then they will know that I am the Lord.””
    **
    But this is no ordinary war. The rest of the seals tell us more about this history altering war.
    Fifth seal: This is a time when the servants of Jesus are martyred.
    Sixth seal: Shaking of the heaven and earth, the wrath of the Lamb (Jesus) on His enemies, the saving of the remnant of Israelites, the martyrs who died during the great tribulation are vindicated, rejoicing in heaven.
    Seventh seal: The destruction of Jesus’ enemies.

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: The White Horse

      Originally posted by RockSolid View Post
      All four horses are representing the same event. A devastating war in which the attacking army is vicious and victorious.
      The white horseman is given a bow, meaning the war is started from a distance. As the fighting intensifies the red horse appears with a sword, meaning close combat. The black horse representing famine appears. During the war , food and other needs will be scarce. Lastly, the pale horse shows the war causes many deaths.
      This echoes the same judgment that Ezekiel prophesied about Israel by Babylon.
      Ezekiel 12:14-16
      “I will scatter his servants and warriors to the four winds and send the sword after them.”
      **“And when I scatter them among the nations, they will know that I am the Lord.”
      “But I will spare a few of them from death by war, famine, or disease, so they can confess all their detestable sins to their captors. Then they will know that I am the Lord.””
      **
      But this is no ordinary war. The rest of the seals tell us more about this history altering war.
      Fifth seal: This is a time when the servants of Jesus are martyred.
      Sixth seal: Shaking of the heaven and earth, the wrath of the Lamb (Jesus) on His enemies, the saving of the remnant of Israelites, the martyrs who died during the great tribulation are vindicated, rejoicing in heaven.
      Seventh seal: The destruction of Jesus’ enemies.
      Nicely said rock solid

      Originally posted by randyk View Post
      Yes, the horses in Zechariah prepared the way for the fulfillment of prophecy in his time. And I believe, if I remember right, that those horses represented military actions that enabled a temporary peace on the earth. War quiets those who represent obstacles in God's path.

      In that sense, the 4 horsemen do represent a form of God's Wrath for me. They are preparing the way for the Kingdom of God by quieting those who are obstacles to God's Kingdom. The world has been trying to set up their own kingdom--their own "Babel," if you will? And God is destroying this pseudo-civilization. They are, in my opinion, God's angels of destruction.

      In the garden of Eden it was God's angel who God used to prevent Man from getting back into the Garden and prevented him from eating of the tree of life. This was judgment, to prevent the eternal establishment of a false kingdom.

      But when the Kingdom is based on Christ, the angels will be in favor of it. Only Satan's angels will be in opposition to it. These 4 horsemen are working to further the cause of God's Kingdom, and not working against it. They are prohibiting the Kingdom of Man, in order to make way for the Kingdom of Christ.
      Well said Randy

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: The White Horse

        Originally posted by marty fox View Post

        Well said Randy
        Your other site is fun and well-organized. Best of all I haven't made anybody too angry with me..............yet.

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: The White Horse

          Originally posted by randyk View Post
          Your other site is fun and well-organized. Best of all I haven't made anybody too angry with me..............yet.
          Thanks I may of chased a couple away Lol

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: The White Horse

            [QUOTE=randyk;3542709]
            Originally posted by ross3421 View Post

            These 4 horsemen clearly bring divine wrath.

            Rev 6.16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
            The lamb is bringing this wrath not the four horseman! ????

            I don't see anywhere that the 4 horsemen are called "Satan's henchmen?"
            Youi need to understand who these four are...…. they are either good or either evil.

            If they are good they why in the fourth does HELL follow????

            Like I said before these three are the lion, bear, leopard of Dan 7. Which we see with the fourth beast in Rev 13.

            They are evil.

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: The White Horse

              Originally posted by marty fox View Post
              But it was Gods wrath on Babylon the great see the verses below

              revelation 14:"8-11
              8 A second angel followed and said, “‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great,’[a] which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”

              9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
              The 7 angels in Rev 14 are describing the consequences and God's wrath of the 7 vials to come. Chapter 16 we see the 7 vials poured out.

              So the timing of Chapter 14 is at the very end when the 7 vials God's wrath is to be poured out including against Babylon.

              17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
              18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
              19 And the great city (Babylon) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: The White Horse

                [QUOTE=TMarcum;3542717]
                Originally posted by randyk View Post

                I look at this a little differently. I do not necessarily believe that the horsemen(s) were the ones bringing forth the wrath, but the wrath was more so as a result of what was set forth in each of the seals. The seals determined what was coming down the pipeline, so to speak.

                If you read in the book of Zechariah, there are horseman that bear a similar resemblance to those in Revelation. Here, an angel of the Lord told Zechariah regarding the horseman, "These are they whom the Lord hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth." So these were messengers of the Lord who traveled up and down making assessment of the conditions. It seams as though the wrath was carried out by the angel of the Lord, who was most likely the "Word" of God. I believe the same is true for Revelation and the 1st of the (4) seals.

                Zechariah 1:
                7 Upon the four and twentieth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Sebat, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the Lord unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,
                8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white.
                9 Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be.
                10 And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the Lord hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth.
                11 And they answered the angel of the Lord that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.

                In Zechariah 6, you can read more about similar horseman with chariots that bear a similar resemblance.
                So you believe the horses in Zech and Rev are the same.

                Question, do you think the four beasts of Dan 7 and Rev 13 (lion, bear, leopard, beast) are the same in Rev around the throne??

                So what Iam saying is that there are two sets of four beasts one good one evil likewise two sets of horses one good one evil.

                The set in Rev 6 are evil. Hell follows them

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: The White Horse

                  I believe the first four SEALS (the four horsemen) are parallel to "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" which all FOLLOW "our Rapture/Departure" (and the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" OF those is Matt24:4/Mk13:5's "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" aka the "whose COMING" 2Th2:9a of "the man of sin" at the 1Th5:2-3 ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time period [aka 'IN THE NIGHT' / 'DARK' / 'DARKNESS'], aka the rider of the white horse with a bow [often meaning, 'DECEPTION']…), etc...

                  I think I may have posted the following, before, but have a hard time with the SEARCH feature (never having much success with it)…

                  [quoting old posts]

                  The "4 living creatures" (Rev4:6-7) I believe in some way represent the "four-directional plotment" of Israel, in the following ways:

                  Judah - "Lion" banner - east - (Numbers 2:3; Numbers 10:14-17; etc)

                  Reuben - "[face of a] man" banner - south - (Numbers 2:10; Numbers 10:18-21; Num32:29; 1Chron5:18;12:37; Josh4:12-14; etc)

                  Ephraim - "ox/calf [/bull/bullock]" banner - west - (Numbers 2:18; Numbers 10:22-24; Jer31:18[/Deut33:17]; etc)

                  Dan - "eagle flying" banner - north - (Numbers 2:25; Numbers 10:25-28; etc)

                  [and see also...]

                  ⦁ the Levites "in the midst" - (Numbers 2:17,33; Numbers 3:3-20,39,41,45; 4:5,15a; etc)

                  In chpt 6, we see the "4 living creatures" saying [individually] "Come! [and see]" at the opening of each of the first FOUR "SEALS": Rev6:1,3,5,7 (which are parallel to "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" of Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11, with many MORE birth pangs that FOLLOW ON from there during the trib years).


                  I agree with much of what Gaebelein writes, here:

                  [quoting; bracketed comments mine]

                  "Revelation 6:9-11.

                  "The four living creatures have uttered their four-fold “Come.” They are thus seen in connection with the providential government of the world. [note: I've mentioned before that I believe "the 4 living creatures" in some way represent the "4-directional plotment" of Israel of OT times--these match their descriptions--which I won't get into here]. Under the fifth seal the scene changes completely. John saw under the altar the souls of them that had been slain. And they cry, “How long, O Lord!” Who are they? Not the martyrs of past ages. They are risen from the dead and are in glory with redeemed bodies. [note: I disagree that any OT saints are "resurrected" by this point in the chronology, based on Dan12:13, etc; the Church which is His body has been, yes]. The words of the Lord in the Olivet discourse give us the key. Speaking to His Jewish disciples He said: “Then shall they deliver you up, and shall kill you and ye shall be hated of all nations for My Name’s sake” (Matthew 24:9). [agree with this]

                  "The Lord speaks of another company of Jewish disciples who will bear a witness during the end of the age, after the rapture of the Church. He will not leave Himself without a witness. He calls a remnant of His people Israel and they bear a witness to the coming of the Messiah, their coming Deliverer and King. Many of them suffer martyrdom. Their cry, “How long?” is the well-known prayer of Jewish saints; and their prayer to have their blood avenged is equally a Jewish prayer. Christians are not supplicating for vengeance on their foes. The prayer for vengeance refers us to the imprecatory psalms prewritten by the Holy Spirit in anticipation of the final persecution of Jewish believers. And the fellow-servants and their brethren, who are yet to be killed (Revelation 6:11), are the martyrs of that remnant during the final three and one-half years, which is the great tribulation."

                  --Gaebelein, Commentary on Revelation 6 [source: BibleHub]

                  [end quoting; bracketed comments mine, parenthesis original]


                  ____________

                  again, I believe "the Church which is His body" will have already experienced "our Rapture/Departure" BEFORE "the DOTL [time period]" will be present to unfold upon the earth with its "man of sin" and ALL he will DO over the course of those 7-yrs (and that "the Church which is His body" is represented, so to speak, by the "24 elders" on "24 thrones" [already in heaven at that point] after a "searching-judgment" has taken place, as indicated by the words "was found" [5:4] as is also used in the later parts of Acts with regard to Paul's trials/court-scenes/searching-judgments)

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: The White Horse

                    Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
                    I believe the first four SEALS (the four horsemen) are parallel to "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" which all FOLLOW "our Rapture/Departure" (and the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" OF those is Matt24:4/Mk13:5's "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" aka the "whose COMING" 2Th2:9a of "the man of sin" at the 1Th5:2-3 ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time period [aka 'IN THE NIGHT' / 'DARK' / 'DARKNESS'], aka the rider of the white horse with a bow [often meaning, 'DECEPTION']…), etc...

                    I think I may have posted the following, before, but have a hard time with the SEARCH feature (never having much success with it)…

                    [quoting old posts]

                    The "4 living creatures" (Rev4:6-7) I believe in some way represent the "four-directional plotment" of Israel, in the following ways:

                    Judah - "Lion" banner - east - (Numbers 2:3; Numbers 10:14-17; etc)

                    Reuben - "[face of a] man" banner - south - (Numbers 2:10; Numbers 10:18-21; Num32:29; 1Chron5:18;12:37; Josh4:12-14; etc)

                    Ephraim - "ox/calf [/bull/bullock]" banner - west - (Numbers 2:18; Numbers 10:22-24; Jer31:18[/Deut33:17]; etc)

                    Dan - "eagle flying" banner - north - (Numbers 2:25; Numbers 10:25-28; etc)

                    [and see also...]

                    ⦁ the Levites "in the midst" - (Numbers 2:17,33; Numbers 3:3-20,39,41,45; 4:5,15a; etc)

                    In chpt 6, we see the "4 living creatures" saying [individually] "Come! [and see]" at the opening of each of the first FOUR "SEALS": Rev6:1,3,5,7 (which are parallel to "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" of Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11, with many MORE birth pangs that FOLLOW ON from there during the trib years).


                    I agree with much of what Gaebelein writes, here:

                    [quoting; bracketed comments mine]

                    "Revelation 6:9-11.

                    "The four living creatures have uttered their four-fold “Come.” They are thus seen in connection with the providential government of the world. [note: I've mentioned before that I believe "the 4 living creatures" in some way represent the "4-directional plotment" of Israel of OT times--these match their descriptions--which I won't get into here]. Under the fifth seal the scene changes completely. John saw under the altar the souls of them that had been slain. And they cry, “How long, O Lord!” Who are they? Not the martyrs of past ages. They are risen from the dead and are in glory with redeemed bodies. [note: I disagree that any OT saints are "resurrected" by this point in the chronology, based on Dan12:13, etc; the Church which is His body has been, yes]. The words of the Lord in the Olivet discourse give us the key. Speaking to His Jewish disciples He said: “Then shall they deliver you up, and shall kill you and ye shall be hated of all nations for My Name’s sake” (Matthew 24:9). [agree with this]

                    "The Lord speaks of another company of Jewish disciples who will bear a witness during the end of the age, after the rapture of the Church. He will not leave Himself without a witness. He calls a remnant of His people Israel and they bear a witness to the coming of the Messiah, their coming Deliverer and King. Many of them suffer martyrdom. Their cry, “How long?” is the well-known prayer of Jewish saints; and their prayer to have their blood avenged is equally a Jewish prayer. Christians are not supplicating for vengeance on their foes. The prayer for vengeance refers us to the imprecatory psalms prewritten by the Holy Spirit in anticipation of the final persecution of Jewish believers. And the fellow-servants and their brethren, who are yet to be killed (Revelation 6:11), are the martyrs of that remnant during the final three and one-half years, which is the great tribulation."

                    --Gaebelein, Commentary on Revelation 6 [source: BibleHub]

                    [end quoting; bracketed comments mine, parenthesis original]


                    ____________

                    again, I believe "the Church which is His body" will have already experienced "our Rapture/Departure" BEFORE "the DOTL [time period]" will be present to unfold upon the earth with its "man of sin" and ALL he will DO over the course of those 7-yrs (and that "the Church which is His body" is represented, so to speak, by the "24 elders" on "24 thrones" [already in heaven at that point] after a "searching-judgment" has taken place, as indicated by the words "was found" [5:4] as is also used in the later parts of Acts with regard to Paul's trials/court-scenes/searching-judgments)
                    The four beasts (living creatures) are introducing another four so they can't be the same.

                    There is one set on God's kingdom and another four in Satan's counterfeit kingdom.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The White Horse

                      Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                      The 7 angels in Rev 14 are describing the consequences and God's wrath of the 7 vials to come. Chapter 16 we see the 7 vials poured out.

                      So the timing of Chapter 14 is at the very end when the 7 vials God's wrath is to be poured out including against Babylon.

                      17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
                      18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
                      19 And the great city (Babylon) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
                      Yes that's what I was saying it is Gods wrath on Babylon the great we just disagree of when it happens

                      Comment


                      • Re: The White Horse

                        Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                        The four beasts (living creatures) are introducing another four so they can't be the same.

                        There is one set on God's kingdom and another four in Satan's counterfeit kingdom.
                        I'm not saying they are the "same"... what I mean is, they "in some way represent," but by this I do not mean they ARE them. (Perhaps "represent" was a poor choice of words?) I believe "the 4 living creatures" are heavenly beings (like angels) and that is not the same thing as saying I think they "ARE" the "4-directional plotment of Israel". They are simply saying (each in turn) "Come".

                        Their descriptions are the same as this 4-directional plotment of Israel, so I believe they "relate" in that way (somehow).

                        With the first of "the 4 living creatures" being described like Judah (lion) was, perhaps it has something to do with the phrases we are all familiar with, "Judah is my lawgiver" (Ps60:7, 108:8) and "Judah is my bow" (Zech9:13).

                        The rider on the white horse "has a bow" and he "went forth conquering and to conquer" which word (in Greek) is also used in the LATER events of that time period, in 11:7 and 13:7 (that is, the word "overcome [them]").

                        Comment


                        • Re: The White Horse

                          P.S. and speaking of Zech9:13... the last two mentions of the word "bow" in the OT are within the phrase "the battle bow" found in Zech9:10 and 10:4 if I recall

                          Comment


                          • Re: The White Horse

                            Originally posted by marty fox View Post
                            Yes that's what I was saying it is Gods wrath on Babylon the great we just disagree of when it happens
                            17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
                            18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
                            19 And the great city (Babylon) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

                            Pretty clear it happens in the 7th vial.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The White Horse

                              Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
                              I'm not saying they are the "same"... what I mean is, they "in some way represent," but by this I do not mean they ARE them. (Perhaps "represent" was a poor choice of words?) I believe "the 4 living creatures" are heavenly beings (like angels) and that is not the same thing as saying I think they "ARE" the "4-directional plotment of Israel". They are simply saying (each in turn) "Come".

                              Their descriptions are the same as this 4-directional plotment of Israel, so I believe they "relate" in that way (somehow).

                              With the first of "the 4 living creatures" being described like Judah (lion) was, perhaps it has something to do with the phrases we are all familiar with, "Judah is my lawgiver" (Ps60:7, 108:8) and "Judah is my bow" (Zech9:13).

                              The rider on the white horse "has a bow" and he "went forth conquering and to conquer" which word (in Greek) is also used in the LATER events of that time period, in 11:7 and 13:7 (that is, the word "overcome [them]").
                              can you entertain the four in the first four seals are the lion, bear, leopard, beast. The same four seen in Rev 13 but now a time when the fourth beast is in control?

                              Comment


                              • Re: The White Horse

                                Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                                can you entertain the four in the first four seals are the lion, bear, leopard, beast. The same four seen in Rev 13 but now a time when the fourth beast is in control?
                                You may have to rephrase for me to grasp what you are asking (for sure), but let me be clear, I believe "the 4 living creatures" are in heaven, whereas the effects of the SEALS are unfolding upon the earth, i.e. the 4 horsemen.

                                I see that the "beast... out of the sea" (Rev13:1-2) was like unto "a leopard... feet of a bear... and his MOUTH as the mouth of a lion" (which I've stated before, that I believe the "mouth" [Rev13:5-6] is the individual [whereas the "beast" as a whole is more like a governing-body/kingdom"] which then matches the "mouth" in Daniel 7:[19],20,21,25 ["whose look is more stout than his fellows" i.e. an individual]).

                                So it is the "lion" aspect of this, that (IMO) connects with the first SEAL (and at which point the first of "the four living creatures" [described as "like a lion" and parallel with "the four-directional plotment of Israel" being the "Judah/lion/lawgiver/bow" connection to that which will unfold upon the earth in the first SEAL events] says "Come" regarding...). This is not to say it can't later have "leopard" and "feet of a bear" characteristics... if that's what you mean [??]. I think I am just misunderstanding you, perhaps.

                                Comment

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